Return of the 4-4-2

[luke511]

Martial Greenwood
Rashford Pogba Bruno S????o
Shaw Maguire Lindelof AWB
​

I'd love to see this next season against weaker opposition, It'd give our full backs less offensive responsibility whilst being able to have Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho (if we sign him) in the same line up. Pogba and Bruno are both very well rounded midfielders, capable of playing as a 6, 8 or 10, which is perfect for the 2 in centre midfield. We kinda play as a midfield 2 at the moment anyway, with Bruno playing a very high free roaming role. We're maybe a CB away from this being perfect.

 

[Bastian]

Yeah, no. We don't have one midfielder capable of playing in a midfield two with no support.

If that wasn't bad enough, which it definitely is, we don't have enough width because we're playing forwards on the wings and our full backs aren't good going forward. Maybe we need to go back to the 433 with the players available, but we'd need authentic and top class midfielders to pull off 442.

 

[el3mel]

We'll get murdered on counters with this midfield.

4-4-2 is an extinct formation for me, anyway.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Possibly when we're chasing game late minutes when the opposing team is parking the bus.
Eg.

Flat Attacking 442

Martial Greenwood
Rashford Pogba Bruno Sancho
Shaw Matic Maguire AWB
De Gea

​

I doubt we'll start with it unless Bruno and Pogba are out and Ole sensibly realize these is far better than trusting Lingard/Pereira/Mata at CAM.
Eg.

Variation of 442

Martial Greenwood
Rashford...............................Sancho
Fred McTominay
Shaw Maguire Lindelof AWB
De Gea

*but Ole can just easily put Sancho at CAM and Greenwood at RW, then they can just rotate around exhange positions in game freely and flexibly.*​

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Hopefully not.

Only as a last resort when we're chasing games.

 

[flappyjay]

Martial Greenwood

Fred Pogba Matic Bruno

Shaw Maguire Lindelof AWB

The only way it would work for us is if we congested the midfield. Fred for his energy and Bruno would have license to roam when in possession. If Sancho comes you can't have both Bruno and Pogba in midfield you would have to sacrifice one. Same with the forwards one of Martial, Greenwood and Rashford would have to miss out.

 

[He'sRaldo]

If we get our high block right then it's a very good formation.

The 4-4-2 of nowadays isn't the same wide formation as it was years ago. Narrow 4-4-2's can be quite a good formation, and would work well with a Martial and Rashford combo. Just look at Hassenhutl's 4-4-2 in Leipzig with Werner and Poulsen as a reference.

That said, Bruno and Pogba in midfield is impossible, and ideally a higher energy midfielder would be preferred to Matic. Maybe Pogba and a better defensive version of Fred.

 

[Bestietom]

If we get our high block right then it's a very good formation.

The 4-4-2 of nowadays isn't the same wide formation as it was years ago. Narrow 4-4-2's can be quite a good formation, and would work well with a Martial and Rashford combo. Just look at Hassenhutl's 4-4-2 in Leipzig with Werner and Poulsen as a reference.

That said, Bruno and Pogba in midfield is impossible, and ideally a higher energy midfielder would be preferred to Matic. Maybe Pogba and a better defensive version of Fred.

Von de Beek.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I'd say that's the "hail mary" formation when throwing the kitchen sink to win a match.

Similar to when we beat Tottenham at home with Ronaldo, Berbatov, Rooney, Tevez all on the pitch at once.

It could work in reality if Pogba/Bruno both worked hard enough.

 

[altodevil]

Not possible if you want to play Bruno

 

[Samid]

This would win us the league. James with his blistering pace will overlap and link up nicely with Sancho. Chong proved against LASK that he's our best attacking full back since Irwin. Matic can move into a DM role in case we're struggling to control the midfield. Don't see any weaknesses here.

 

[-Supreme-]

This would win us the league. James with his blistering pace will overlap and link up nicely with Sancho. Chong proved against LASK that he's our best attacking full back since Irwin. Matic can move into a DM role in case we're struggling to control the midfield. Don't see any weaknesses here.

This would be my FIFA formation.

 

[Robertd0803]

This would win us the league. James with his blistering pace will overlap and link up nicely with Sancho. Chong proved against LASK that he's our best attacking full back since Irwin. Matic can move into a DM role in case we're struggling to control the midfield. Don't see any weaknesses here.

This hurts my eyes.

Starting with this we would be lucky to win a match against anyone half decent with the lack of cover here. Maguire is literally the only defender and Chong also proved in the cameo vs LASK that he doesnt have an ounce of defensive know how about him to play left back.

Be great if we are chasing a game and need to throw the kitchen sink at someone though.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Bruno in a 4-4-2 would be an absolute disaster. Especially with Rashford & Sancho on the wings. It would basically be a 4-1-5. We’d be very entertaining but we’d be there for the taking on the counter. Pogba himself isn’t exactly the most disciplined either.

 

[Adzilla]

The 4-2-3-1 we play at the moment is more like a 4-2-2-2 with Bruno basically playing like a second striker. We definitely need to work on a more balanced shape in the big games as we probably will find us getting dominated if we basically have Pogba and Matic isolated in the middle of the park against 3 quality midfielders.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I was going to start a thread asking will 4-4-2 ever make a return at the top level... but then I couldn't be bothered as the answer is probably "maybe, who knows".

 

[siw2007]

The only way I could see this working is if we went for something like this:

Rashford Martial
Pogba McTominay Fernandes New RW
Shaw Maguire Lindelof Wan Bissaka
De Gea​

The idea would be that when we don't have the ball, the midfield could become more compact and both strikers could drop in to congest the space. We would probably need a quicker partner for Maguire so we could play a higher press better, we wouldn't want to fall into the trap of playing two banks of 4 on the edge of our box and playing long balls up to the strikers to relieve pressure all the time. But I think that Rashford and Martial's, movement across the front line could be effective, it would give opportunity for one of them to drop in to the hole, turn and run at defenders. Pogba can tuck in while Shaw pushes on to create more passing options.

I like the idea of doing 442, but I don't see us going in that direction, I think we will stick with our version of 4213 or whatever it is we are trying to do.

​

 

[acnumber9]

We'll get murdered on counters with this midfield.

4-4-2 is an extinct formation for me, anyway.

It isn’t for Atletico Madrid. They do alright.

 

[acnumber9]

I was going to start a thread asking will 4-4-2 ever make a return at the top level... but then I couldn't be bothered as the answer is probably "maybe, who knows".

It will at some stage. It’s still an incredibly effective tactic if you can get the right players.

 

[DWelbz19]

It isn’t for Atletico Madrid. They do alright.

Their midfield 4 normally consists of 3 actual box to box CMs — Koke; Partey; Saul; then normally one winger (Yannick Carrasco or Correa).

If we wanted to go Atletico style we’d need something like Fred - Pogba - McTominay + one of Greenwood/Rashford/Bruno.

 

[acnumber9]

Their midfield 4 normally consists of 3 actual box to box CMs — Koke; Partey; Saul; then normally one winger (Yannick Carrasco or Correa).

If we wanted to go Atletico style we’d need something like Fred - Pogba - McTominay + one of Greenwood/Rashford/Bruno.

Oh it definitely wouldn’t work with the players we currently have. Not with Pogba and Fernandes anyway. Doesn’t mean it can’t work if you had well rounded midfielders and actual wide players. It was what won Leicester the league five years ago. It was also what won us our last title.

 

[DWelbz19]

Oh it definitely wouldn’t work with the players we currently have. Not with Pogba and Fernandes anyway. Doesn’t mean it can’t work if you had well rounded midfielders and actual wide players. It was what won Leicester the league five years ago. It was also what won us our last title.

I think you could maybe get away with one (Pogba, probably), and then play Bruno as the second striker in the way Griezmann did for Atletico.

But yeah, no point for us. We don’t have the personnel for it, and it’s a bit too specific to randomly move to it now.

 

[acnumber9]

I think you could maybe get away with one (Pogba, probably), and then play Bruno as the second striker in the way Griezmann did for Atletico.

But yeah, no point for us. We don’t have the personnel for it, and it’s a bit too specific to randomly move to it now.

More likely to work if Bruno played out wide I think as he’s a decent crosser. I can see the appeal in it as you can play Martial and Greenwood both closer to goal.

 

[tidraKS]

This would win us the league. James with his blistering pace will overlap and link up nicely with Sancho. Chong proved against LASK that he's our best attacking full back since Irwin. Matic can move into a DM role in case we're struggling to control the midfield. Don't see any weaknesses here.

You know you could always use McTominay for Maguire in that position?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

It will at some stage. It’s still an incredibly effective tactic if you can get the right players.

I suppose most 4-4-2's... certainly Fergie's anyway, had one striker dropping off to basically be a Number 10 (albeit more advanced).

If we had our 99 team now I'd say we'd still be able to go 4-4-2, mainly because of Roy Keane.

 

[Samid]

You know you could always use McTominay for Maguire in that position?

Why? Jose is that you?

 

[acnumber9]

I suppose most 4-4-2's... certainly Fergie's anyway, had one striker dropping off to basically be a Number 10 (albeit more advanced).

If we had our 99 team now I'd say we'd still be able to go 4-4-2, mainly because of Roy Keane.

Usually a player that could play a bit but still had a strikers instinct.

 

[Dec9003]

Teams are constantly changing shape within matches nowadays, I think 4-4-2 still gets used a decent amount off the ball?

 

[SilentWitness]

I don't think it is particularly sustainable in modern football where the onus is on fitness/running as much as it is about footballing ability. I know we have a much worse side than you so using our experience of 4-4-2 will be a bit different but you could see the clear pros and cons of the system throughout Ancelotti's tenure so far.

You absolutely need specialists in each position with clear and defined roles and it's unlike the 4-2-3-1 or other variants where one player usually has a bit of licence to roam or do what they want. I'm going to contradict myself slightly as that's what Richarlison is allowed to do in our 4-4-2 system BUT it is only due to his incredible work rate and defensive nous that he is capable of doing so. One of your forwards needs to be capable of pressing/tracking back just as much as they are involved in the attacking play. The other forward basically needs to be a dog. Scrappy, works hard, wins all aerial duels, strong, does all the dirty work in the attack - helps if they can score a bit too (DCL). The midfield is our downfall because ours can't run or create so it puts a lot of pressure on the front 2 to do so but ideally you'd have someone like Allan (who we are interested in) or Gueye who we let go that can do all the hard work in midfield and operate box-to-box. The wide men in our system tended to float inside, help the midfield out a bit but also gave space to the full-backs to create which are also very important in the system as they have to be capable of notching up a decent number of assists or chance creation (Which Digne does).

Anyway, because of all that your squad needs to be incredibly fit and of a very good level ability wise to make it sustainable and capable of winning titles, plus speciailised in their certain positions. I think you have the ability but not the players that fit that type of system. The way you play relies on a fluid attacking trio with a CAM that plays a high risk game which means you need a box-to-box midfielder in Pogba to fight for scraps in the middile/playmake aswell but also another player in the Matic mould that can cover for it in your own half. Matic/Bruno midfield two or Bruno/Pogba midfield 2 would maybe work in some games but in others you'd get shat on.

 

[adexkola]

Teams are constantly changing shape within matches nowadays, I think 4-4-2 still gets used a decent amount off the ball?

Absolutely. Which makes the "4-4-2 is dead" comments a bit weird. City use the 4-4-2 out of possession.

 

[bond19821982]

stick to fifa mate. That formation works only there.

 

[tidraKS]

Why? Jose is that you?

No, just so you'd have zero defenders in your team then

 

[Amerifan]

This would win us the league. James with his blistering pace will overlap and link up nicely with Sancho. Chong proved against LASK that he's our best attacking full back since Irwin. Matic can move into a DM role in case we're struggling to control the midfield. Don't see any weaknesses here.

Every game would be 5:4 or 4:5. It would be thrilling to watch, but I’m not convinced we’d win the league.

 

[flappyjay]

I think you could maybe get away with one (Pogba, probably), and then play Bruno as the second striker in the way Griezmann did for Atletico.

But yeah, no point for us. We don’t have the personnel for it, and it’s a bit too specific to randomly move to it now.

Pogba did for France, it was Matuidi, Pogba, kante and Mbappe. Bruno would fit in by playing as a second striker

 

[Hammondo]

We would get murdered.

 

[luke511]

stick to fifa mate. That formation works only there.

4-1-2-1-2 wide is my jam

 

[Sandikan]

Pogba and Bruno as a midfield 2?

Only if it's "all out attack mode" for the last 5mins.

 

[bond19821982]

The only 442 that works with the current team is how Leipzig or Southampton plays.

4-2-2-2 and Hasenhuttl is the man to make it work. Tbh, it would be perfect for us.

2 attacking midfielders playing narrow and 2 wide floating forwards. Defensive stability would be provided by Fred and McT.

 

[Borys]

I don't see any advantage for us using this system. The front four wouldn't be playing as they do typically in 4-4-2 as we have 0 (zero) wingers. And we also have only two midfielders who seem to be capable of playing in midfield two, and they are 4th and 5th choice at the moment.

 

[el3mel]

This would win us the league. James with his blistering pace will overlap and link up nicely with Sancho. Chong proved against LASK that he's our best attacking full back since Irwin. Matic can move into a DM role in case we're struggling to control the midfield. Don't see any weaknesses here.

Bruno spends most of the game time as a second striker so Pogba will be left totally isolated in midfield and Matic pushing forward to support him from CB to midfield means Maguire will be left on his own defensively. Beside Matic and Maguire as a pair will be absolute disaster thanks to how slow they both are.

We'll get absolutely murdered with this against any half decent team.