There is no comparison. kane is far better and talented.
Rio's words on Kane and Lukaku: A Real No. 9
- Thread starter Red4Life_#7
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It's incredible how few passes he got into his feet from one of our central midfielders. I counted one pass in that video from Pogba. One pass, in 90 minutes. And zero from Matic. Fecking disgraceful really. He'll look a damn sight better with Carrick in the team, that's for sure.
No that genuinely is a bad record look at the other top strikers at big clubs and compare against the top 10 teams.
Think we need to cut our losses with this one.
Get rid, recoup 30-40 million and get a striker who is interested in testing defenses and who can actually use movement to make space for themselves instead of jogging and waiting looking disinterested in the games.
I wanted him to succeed here, and ignored the flaws, defended him like a fool against other supporters who were saying he was a poor footballer with a poor touch with nothing to offer but flat track bully goals. I had to admit I was wrong and they were right in their assessment.
The guy can't handle the pressure and expectations and doesn't have the finesse to carve out chances out for himself. It is like having a bodybuilder who's size looks impressive yet can't push themselves to lift a decent weight in the gym.
I think some people defending him and making excuses about service, are simply in denial which is understandable considering it doesn't bare thinking that we wasted 75-90million a gloried Emile Heskey which we will be stuck with for years to come considering the manager doesn't want to lose face about the transfer.
Should have gone for Costa or like someone else mentioned, made another stop gap signing like Vardy until there was someone you who ticked all the boxes and was attainable.
Get rid, recoup 30-40 million and get a striker who is interested in testing defenses and who can actually use movement to make space for themselves instead of jogging and waiting looking disinterested in the games.
I wanted him to succeed here, and ignored the flaws, defended him like a fool against other supporters who were saying he was a poor footballer with a poor touch with nothing to offer but flat track bully goals. I had to admit I was wrong and they were right in their assessment.
The guy can't handle the pressure and expectations and doesn't have the finesse to carve out chances out for himself. It is like having a bodybuilder who's size looks impressive yet can't push themselves to lift a decent weight in the gym.
I think some people defending him and making excuses about service, are simply in denial which is understandable considering it doesn't bare thinking that we wasted 75-90million a gloried Emile Heskey which we will be stuck with for years to come considering the manager doesn't want to lose face about the transfer.
Should have gone for Costa or like someone else mentioned, made another stop gap signing like Vardy until there was someone you who ticked all the boxes and was attainable.
So watching that clip with all the head flicks, simple passes that a toddler could make, scuppered chances and being in offside positions, do you honestly feel you were watching a 75 million player show off their craft?
Checked (it's a quick check so there maybe one or two mistakes)
Players leading the line for other top teams.
Firmino - 6
Morata - 6
Aguero - 5
Kane - 11
Kane scored 7 goals against Burnley and Everton alone and he is the one who is on completely different level.
Every striker is going to miss chances. The difference is the link up play and the constant threat he posed towards our defenders. He made himself a nuisance and bullied them. Kept them on their toes constantly. If he wasn't desperate to get his 100th he'd have played Son through for an assist.
The difference between the two players is night and day, to the point you are comparing an elite striker to a good run of the mill striker
Kane an actually hold the ball up with an idea of what he is going to do with it and his movement is far superior.
You are very deluded.
In the three of their opening games, they conceded 7 goals in 3 games and lost twice with only won once! Would you call that impressive?? Just because they got few decent and good results and kept some couple of clean sheets don't mean they are good defensively. They are 6th now, 34 goals conceded in 25 games is terrible defensively. Burnley has only conceded 22 goals, even Liverpool conceded less (29 goals).
Fact & logic are different my friend. Pathetic logic is when someone started to think a team is not terrible defensively by conceded 34 goals in 25 games. They have problems that they need to fix defensively!! How is everyone know they have problem defensively but you are the only one who has no clue?
Once again, you are missing my point about Lukaku here. I never say I don't praise Lukaku for his performance against Arsenal. My point is that Lukaku always struggle against team who play high pressure, but Arsenal in that game didn't play high pressure to us at all. We were the one who press them instead! You are twisting my word of calling them "poor". But you are ignoring the main point.
Why do you think Mourinho didn't play hooft ball against Arsenal? Simple, unlike Spurs, Liverpool and etc. Xhaka & Ramsey are not discipline defensively, they were running like headless chicken, Mourinho knew their problem and we exploit their midfield and defense during counter attack.
Goals and assists ? or just goals?
Do you even know home and away concept?Yeah your logic of pathetic. Funny how you don't answer whether to praise Kane for his performance against ManUtd and Liverpool.
Goals and assists.
Difference in Kane is younger than both so if he's comparable to them now imagine when he reaches their age.
It's not hyperbole. Did we want to get Rooney off the wage bill? Yes. Did he still retain a market value? Also yes. Same with Mkhi. Just because they are useless for us and we want rid doesn't mean their transfer value drop to 0.
I presume the 5m would be for something like 30 PL apps and/or 20 goals scored within x seasons, similar to Martial's clauses. It's how these deals are structure. No club is dumb enough to stick a PL/CL clause in if they have any say about it.
Sanchez I'm hoping is going to bring the best out of all the team but depends if we have fixed our right side or not, Pogba is being wasted playing so deep in a midfield 2
Ohhh, so good results at home but poor result in away means Arsenal has no problem defensively? What kind logic is that.
Yeah your logic of pathetic. Funny how you don't answer whether to praise Kane for his performance against ManUtd and Liverpool.
How? Because you didn't read my post and keep ignoring my point.
You know what, I'll keep it simple just for you my friend.
I'm praising Kane's performance vs United and I'm praising Lukaku's performance against Arsenal here, but you are missing my point. My point is that Lukaku always struggle play with his feet against team who play high pressure, but Arsenal in that game didn't play high pressure to us at all.
This is the key aspect. Lukaku has improved, but he simply isn't doing the basic or what is required when we need THAT out-ball over the midfield to him. It simply has to stick.
That Spurs game; he wasn't up against a Ramos, or a nasty Carvalho or a Terry, he was being beaten to the punch by Spurs defenders. I mean he should know Vertonghen's game inside out being a Belgian squad member.
The criticism that "he's a poacher not a hold up man," is poor when Ruud could lead well and even Alan Smith could do that
I will add in the OT match it was Lukaku's better play that led to the goal but in this match this week Lukaku's hold up and general play was abysmal and he has to learn or be dropped.
Against top 10 teams goals and assists (Top 10 dependant on if the team were top 10 at the time each player played against them)
Firmino - 8
Morata - 6
Aguero - 12
Kane - 11
Lukaku - 4
Now only two players on this list are known as top class strikers. So lukaku is even below morata and firmino who aren't yet top class players. Whilst also playing more minutes than both. Its very clear that he isn't performing to the levels of decent players let alone top class.
Just for reference MArtial has 5 goals and assists against top 10 sides
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Check their defensive record before they played ManUtd. Not sure why I'm even explaining home and away hereOhhh, so good results at home but poor result in away means Arsenal has no problem defensively? What kind logic is that.
How? Because you didn't read my post and keep ignoring my point.
You know what, I'll keep it simple just for you my friend.
I'm praising Kane's performance vs United and I'm praising Lukaku's performance against Arsenal here, but you are missing my point. My point is that Lukaku always struggle play with his feet against team who play high pressure, but Arsenal in that game didn't play high pressure to us at all.
So Arsenal didn't play high pressure? Wonder why we had only 22-24% possession in that game? What made us to give ball away so easily for fun and played whole game in our half?
Or maybe because you are just looking for excuses? It's pathetic that you don't even have to make up stuff to have a go at him when it comes to his performance against big teams, that makes your points even more pathetic and desperate.
If we actually play the ball to his feet. Do you think Lukaku won't lose the ball too often against Spurs's high press? We all know what happened last time when he played against teams with high press like Liverpool, City and etc. Got exposed easily.
So now when we played them which is so illogical as so many teams played easy games and were high on table early in the season and some had very hard fixtures.
Anyways that suits your agenda and makes you happy so who cares.
You have to perform complex mental gymnastics and arithmetics to convince yourself that Lukaku has been top class striker that was worth the 75 million.
Hell even if we paid 30- 45 million I'd still expect a hell lot more out of the our main striker playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world.
Hell even if we paid 30- 45 million I'd still expect a hell lot more out of the our main striker playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world.
There's nothing new in this. Every man and his dog knew Kane was better before the season. Lukaku is more like a massive Michael Owen than an Alan Shearer. He's fast, a decent dribbler and he can finish. He doesn't have much else in his locker though.
Mate its much harder to play against teams that are on the up turn confident after consecutive wins. Lets be honest why would I include bourmouth when they were bottom of the league? Doesn't make sense. It's not about whats suits agendas its about what is logical. Lukaku hasn't performed compared to his peers and the stats clearly show it. Even martial who actually has half the minutes compared to lukaku and has been a winger rather than striker has better stats than lukaku against top 10 sides
We are clearly seing different videos. In the first minute of the video he misplaces several head passes, and some of them he wasn't even that pressured.
That one on one with the keeper and he does a terrible pass, and with Rashford just a few feet from him, with no oppostion.
His skill with the ball on his feet is makes it even worst. A striker with his price tag should always be a threat with the ball on his feet.
So many teams will play easy games and will be high to in the table early, when they play first round of games you get better idea about how good teams are.
Was watching the same vid today morning and thought, there isn't a lot of wrong in there. We're pinging balls at him with 3 defenders around him, its not his trait. He is a poacher and will always be one. His control has been decent and it shows with the assist he has given. He's still young and his very first season with us, so loads to improve. How many people would've predicted Sane to set the world alight last season? He was cursed off by his own fans for the lack of effort. You got to be patient with players and many fans seems to show none of it.
Lukaku is a goalscorer. I don't say he is a good one. Sometimes he will produce more like in one of his other games where he gave some key passes (Burnley If I remember well) but that's extra. To play along, to hold up the ball, to make it defenders difficult please don't want that because that is not his game. Next summer Man Utd. will be looking for a new striker because Lukaku is not enough for the ambitions of Man Utd. I'm curious to see how Slimani will perform at Newcastle who in my eyes is a good striker but brings more extra to the game then Romelu.
They will also be at their most confident. But what is clear from the table is that there isnt much of a difference in quality between teams from 7 till 17 so when you play one of those teams whilst they are in the top 10 you are playing them at their best and most confident. So it makes sense to base stats on those moments. Bournemouth actually started the season with easy teams and were bottom of the table. Recently they have played better teams and moved up the table. So your point isn't really valid.
Check what happened to their three opening games this season? 7 goals conceded in 3 games! Lost 1-0 to Stoke, conceded 3 goals to Leicester, conceded 4 goals to Liverpool. Check their goals, Arsenal defense, Xhaka & Ramsey were to blamed. Just because couple of decent defensive record before they played against us doesn't indicate they have solved the defensive problem or they are not terrible defensively.
Ohhh, so having 22-24% possession in that game means they play high pressure? What kind of logic is that?
You either don't want to admit it or you actually didn't watch the game. I'll tell you what happened in that game. We played high press in the first 10 minutes and we scored the two goals from that high press. Check the positioning of Arsenal defense and midfield when we counter attacked or scored, do you call that high press or do you call that headless chicken defending?
The main reason why we had very less possession are because we just sat back so deep almost the entire game and clear the ball away which allow them to have the most possession, that's when we had that 2-0 leads after 10th mins. We only launched 2 or 3 counter attack after that and they were just all over the place when we counter attack them.
What excuses? What make it up? Arsenal didn't play high press in that game, they have been poor defensively since the start of season. Are you telling me just because they lost to United their defense become poor after that? LOL You got worse logic than my fact.
I gave my praise to him against Arsenal but doesn't mean we can ignore his weakness.
Lukaku's main weakness has always been his movement, even though he got pace but his movement has always been poor (even Henry agreed) & he's not striker with top class technique and struggle to play in tight pressure.
Anyway, you are the one who shouldn't make excuse here, never mind big teams, he has only scored 2 goals against top 10 sides and to be honest if we are talking about this last week, I would have called it just 1 goal since Watford was above Bournemouth a few days ago.
It is. That's why table changes when all teams play against each other.
End of the season table don't lie. Also if you consider form then you should consider form table, not the position when we played them. Teams might be in better form or poor form before ManUtd played them.
I reckon if Zatan can come back in a bit better shape..He would do the job as number 9 wayyy better compared to what Lukaku show us nowadays. Lukaku's first touch and close ball control is horrible. He can't hold up the tempo or or time the passes right because he lacks the necessary ball skills.
I think our attack would be more fluid with Zlatan/Sanchez/Martial/Rash rather than with Lukaku in there. Zlatan(if in-form) could hold the ball with much more flair and finesse, and probably link up better with fast players like Sanchez, Martial, Rashford and Lingard. Also Zlatan is more of a Drogba type known for bullying defenders. Something I miss in lukaku given his physique.
I do hope we sell Zlatan this summer though.. and hopefully get a proper replacement. Don't get me wrong. I've just lost faith in Lukaku. He just isn't Manchester United caliber.
I think our attack would be more fluid with Zlatan/Sanchez/Martial/Rash rather than with Lukaku in there. Zlatan(if in-form) could hold the ball with much more flair and finesse, and probably link up better with fast players like Sanchez, Martial, Rashford and Lingard. Also Zlatan is more of a Drogba type known for bullying defenders. Something I miss in lukaku given his physique.
I do hope we sell Zlatan this summer though.. and hopefully get a proper replacement. Don't get me wrong. I've just lost faith in Lukaku. He just isn't Manchester United caliber.
All the shit but concept of home and away is lost here.Check what happened to their three opening games this season? 7 goals conceded in 3 games! Lost 1-0 to Stoke, conceded 3 goals to Leicester, conceded 4 goals to Liverpool. Check their goals, Arsenal defense, Xhaka & Ramsey were to blamed. Just because couple of decent defensive record before they played against us doesn't indicate they have solved the defensive problem or they are not terrible defensively.
Ohhh, so having 22-24% possession in that game means they play high pressure? What kind of logic is that?
You either don't want to admit it or you actually didn't watch the game. I'll tell you what happened in that game. We played high press in the first 10 minutes and we scored the two goals from that high press. Check the positioning of Arsenal defense and midfield when we counter attacked or scored, do you call that high press or do you call that headless chicken defending?
The main reason why we had very less possession are because we just sat back so deep almost the entire game which allow them to have the most possession, that's when we had that 2-0 leads after 10th mins. We only launched 2 or 3 counter attack after that and they were just all over the place when we counter attack them.
What excuses? I gave my praise to him against Arsenal but doesn't mean we can ignore his weakness.
Lukaku's main weakness has always been his movement, even though he got pace but his movement has always been poor (even Henry agreed) & he's not striker with top class technique and struggle to play in tight pressure.
Anyway, you are the one who shouldn't make excuse here, never mind big teams, he has only scored 2 goals against top 10 sides and to be honest if we are talking about this last week, I would have called it just 1 goal since Watford was above Bournemouth a few days ago.
Not even sure what you even posted after first 2 lines as you repeat the same tedious shit again and again. So not arses to read all the shit again.
Oh not because of you some complicated logics, it's just your posts are shit to read again and again.
Mkhitaryan and Rooney are totally different cases: Mkhitaryan is a player in his prime who just hadn't found a role or decent form since he came to United, Rooney was a player on "world class" wages who had declined drastically from his peak and who was short of suitors. Realistically if we hadn't been in for Lukaku and Everton, or any club for that matter, had offered to take Rooney on a free and take him off the payroll there is no way the club would have been insisting on £10 million or no deal. Really don't see why getting Rooney off the books ought to be another stick to beat Lukaku with.
The biggest problem so far that I found with him is his mentality. He looks so intimidated playing for united. He must stop those clapping at every pass he gets , he must act like the man and start doing things on his own. I feel he bis trying too much to show everyone that he is part of this club and can contribute. What I call as inferiority complex. He would have perfect for chelsea, less pressure and he would have felt like a big man there. I still feel he will perform even better next season, especially in the big games. He needs to get back that hunger and not remain a sidekick. You are the number 9 so act like one.
I was right with you until you mentioned Vardy.
Agree with most of this.
Love how Wenger was ruthless in signing Aubumeyang when it became clear Lacazette isn't working out.
I think it's high time we stop bringing money into every argument. Market has gone crazy and in real world lukaku would be actually worth somewhere around 45m or 50 at max. We cannot blame players for being signed for absurd amounts. Also there were not better alternatives available. People who think levy would have sold Kane to us must be living in fifa manager world. Lukaku was our best option and he has done reasonably well who needs to improve his mentality.
People are putting too much focus on his skills but in reality it's his mentality that is stopping him from reaching that next level. Like I said in my previous post, I somehow feel he is having an inferiority complex playing for this club. He would have been perfect for chelsea, less pressure and he would have been their main man but playing for united is a different ball game.
if you ask me, I think he will perform even better next season. Moreover, 18 goals already is not at all a bad return.
It's not complicated if you understand anything about Lukaku's weakness, which you don't. You are just typical of someone who can't be bother anymore when you don't know how to counter argument and start blaming other people post and opinion.
He's never been good enough to start for us and probably never will.
There are just way too many flaws in his game to overcome. A top class centre forward should never be easy to mark out of the game the way Lukaku has in the big games in the last two years.
There are just way too many flaws in his game to overcome. A top class centre forward should never be easy to mark out of the game the way Lukaku has in the big games in the last two years.
Well he didn't lost it once on the rare occasion the ball was played to his feet in that video so no, I see no reason to think he would lose the ball any more often than anyone else in red did on the night. If anything, the opposite.