Rob Smyth - When Arsène Wenger and Alex Ferguson fought bitterly to be top dog - The Guardian

[Guy Incognito]

Remember when a lot of people used to think Wenger was a better manager than Fergie?

And it was probably a fair argument at least. I maintained Fergie was better even then but it wasn't a ridiculous argument to make.

Imagine trying to argue Wenger was a better manager now? Fergie has been retired for 5 years and I bet he'd still be a better manager.

Wenger stopped being a 'manager' when he pontificated about financial doping and focused more on balancing books than strengthening his teams. Moving from Highbury just disorientated his management.

I don't think what's happening now will ruin his legacy because he pushed Arsenal to greater things and in doing so made Fergie and United up their game. The rivalry was organic, unlike when Chelsea and City burst into the scene.

Watching that 4-2 at Highbury makes me miss the screaming lady.

 

[Frings]

This was the PL at its highest point. Then Benitez and Mourinho arrived to turn it into a bit of a shit show.

More like they brought with them tactics that had been successful in Europe the season earlier and games became more tactical and less emotional like you had in the PL prior.

On topic, that was the best rivalry I have enjoyed as a United fan. Mostly because where I grew up Arsenal were the hipster team because they played good football, represented anti-establishment and had a football legend from my home nation, so watching a game against them in the local pubs usually ended in brawls with casualties on both side.

But the football itself was magnificent, the pizzagate events, 1998 Semi-final, ending their unbeaten run, them winning the league at OT, it was just all amazing. I also had this obsession with Henry at the time that I so much wanted him to play for us somehow.

Looking back now, football has changed, for better or worse, a lot from what it used to be. A proper men's sport is now one of whinny little cnuts like Alli and those cheats in La Liga.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Nah, I disagree. As we quickly found out, the Anderson-Cleverley midfield axis were flattering to deceive. The XI who started against Arsenal sure as shit didn't turn out to be the best XI over the course of that season. But whatever, not arsed about carrying this tangent on.

The same 'weakened team' started again Spurs, Chelsea (with Fletcher in for Cleverley, being hacked down by Davies the week prior) and City (the infamous 1-6, same line up with Chelsea team).

Pretty ballsy by Fergie to play a sub-optimal team against all the big team. It wasn't our best team over the course of the season, but it was at the beginning, certainly by the time of the 8-2. Our poorer results during that stretch (1-1 Stoke away and 1-1 Liverpool away) were when Fergie opted for experience. Anyhow, this will be my last post on the matter, whether you change your mind or not.

 

[Spoony]

Good times. Sadly, there's not much in terms of entertainment these days, that said it's been worse post Fergie. The 4-2 game was epic as were the FA semi and replay.

 

[Canagel]

I still haven't forgiven Keown and his Arsenal teammates for what they did to Van Nistelrooy. I hate that man with a passion. Even now in punditry he can't stop having little digs at us. Just today he was claiming that De Gea shouldn't be in the PFA 11! He can't hide his hatred for us. It was so sweet when Ruud tucked that penalty away in the 2-0 game to end the unbeaten run. Couldn't have imagined a better way to end their run with Rooney getting in on the act as well.

 

[clarkydaz]

Just had to watch the highlights again.


Giggs' goal is the best United goal I can remember.

if I try and think of a better game ive witnessed above this one, there wont be many. Had absolutely everything that game

 

[matherto]

Still do!

The 2-0 and 4-2 matches during the 04/05 season are among my all time favorite matches. United’s aggression (tactical fouls @matherto!) and doggedness at Old Trafford, especially, was amazing to behold

It's Arsenal, feck 'em.

 

[beergod]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2006/jul/31/sport.comment

Obligatory Rob Smyth pisstake.

 

[berbatrick]

Wouldn't agree with that. Rio and Vida started that season very slowly, and Vida would end up eventually with an injury against Basel that ruled him out for basically the rest of the season. In the Community Shield we started with both of them in defence and went 0-2 down, changed both with Smalling and Evans and came back 3-2 with that Nani goal. The midfield pairing of Cleverley-Ando was also in great form, blitzing every team 5 or 6 nil during the summer tour, won 3-0 again Spurs the week prior (or was that the week after?).

We played our best XI at the time on form, while Arsenal went through a tumultuous summer with the loss of Clichy and Nasri to City. After the match Arsene would go on a panic buy spree and got Mertersacker, Carzola, Arteta etc...

A fit, in form and winning Utd destroyed a demoralised Arsenal that day. In the list of our domination that wouldn't rank quite high compared to other games on the 'weakened team' criteria.

I think the high points for United of the Arsenal games after 2005 were the 2 times we won 3-1 away (2009 CL semi and 2010 PL). That was full-strength, in-form Arsenal and they had no chance.

I agree that the 2-8 game we faced a team that looked like it was ready to collapse especially in CM and CB, even if the forwards were still very good (they could easily have finished the 1st half at 2-2). They had just sold Cesc, Nasri and Clichy, Wilshere and Sagna were injured, 2 players (Coq and Jenkison) were on debut, and Djorou started at CB and Traore at LB. http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2016/08/28/do-man-united-8-2-arsenal-wengers-xi-five-years-on/

 

[.Rossi]

No disrespect mean't to either...

Both legends of the English game....Well, one master, one "legend"

Fact is, it's deplorable if this is how it is now..... Conte vs Mourinho is the closest we've got in recent years ffs

 

[SirAF]

It's Arsenal, feck 'em.

 

[Thisistheone]

Looking forward to this tonight!

 

[Il Prete Rosso]

Carl Jenkinson. Funnily enough, we also had a 19 year old fullback in that game. His name was Phil Jones!

We actually fielded a weakened team in that game too. Which made it all the more satisfying. Smalling and Evans in central defence, Cleverley and Anderson in midfield.

No room for Rio, Vidic, Carrick, Berbatov, Giggs or Scholes in the starting XI.

There was a lot more happening behind the scenes for Arsenal that resulted in that horrific loss.

 

[oohaahc7]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2006/jul/31/sport.comment

Obligatory Rob Smyth pisstake.

Thanks for this, really astonishing! Not that Fergie was criticized (it did look like United could struggle to catch Chelsea those seasons), but the sheer venom in that article says something about how football journalism has always been conducted.

This must always be brought up whenever football journos act like they know things about football.

 

[madzo2007]

There's a show on Channel 5 about Fergie V Wenger at 10pm tonight

 

[Sassy Colin]

On Ch5 now.

 

[#07]

Already shown some of Fergie's greatest hits. Calling Ince an f'n big time Charlie, telling our players their passing is f'n scratchy, f'n and blinding at John Motson and storming out of an MOTD interview.

Some of these who think Jose's too confrontational should watch this for a wake up call!

 

[FootballHQ]

What a start....f this and f that. As Mrs Doyle would say, the language.

 

[adamwest]

Great watch so far!

 

[RedDevil@84]

The 8-2 itself was against a depleted Arsenal team that got a 19 year old as fullback (can't even remember his name now).

While I agree to that, there were some peach of virtually unstoppable goals from Rooney and Young on that day.

 

[RedDevil@84]

After the match Arsene would go on a panic buy spree and got Mertersacker, Carzola, Arteta etc...

This was my favorite part. If not for the 8-2, Le Prof would have said his usual "There is no value in market"

 

[FootballHQ]

Interested where they've got all this behind the scenes footage from, season review videos?

Very good watch so far anyway.

 

[Ban]

Hopefully it will be on Youtube soon.