Roberto De Zerbi - Brighton manager

Pickle85

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The manager is not on the pitch. He can't defend in place of his players. What the feck are you even going on about here, seriously. How did Southgate throw away a 1-0 lead against Croatia, do explain please


Uh? Back 5 worked just fine in Russia, and he already dropped it for the Euros except when he used it to surprise the opponent - which generally worked, too (see the final)


I'm saying it's very unlikely that you would upgrade given the quality of the job he is doing right now. Pedigree means feck all at international level. Capello is one of the very best managers the sport has ever seen and look how that went.

You are greatly underestimating how difficult it is to even get the results England managed under him(easy draws, sure, you've still cocked those up in the past and hey, remember what Napoleon said about good generals vs lucky ones?) massively overrating the impact of the manager on individual international games, and choosing to ignore the fact that as it stands England are one lucky break away from winning the Euros - like, say, winning a penalty shootout

Tl;dr Southgate is doing a 8/10 job, the only thing England missed to win stuff is more luck(and possibly Kane not missing crucial chances) and the chances of the next guy doing better than that are so small that England would likely be better off sticking with the guy. Want to know the difference between Scaloni and Southgate? His players won a penalty shootout. That's it.
Southgate threw away the 1-0 against Croatia by going into his shell and reverting to his default which is cautious and unambitious. It's no coincidence that our best points in the second half coincided with us trying to be progressive and our worst coincided with us sitting back. Croatia had just been run into the ground against Russia while we'd only had an easy 90 Vs Sweden, so we should have been in good shape to maintain the sort of intensity that served us well initially. Southgate bottled it. Just like he did against Italy.

The bolded bit in your message is just dumb. Are you saying that managers have no bearing on the result unless they can step out to play themselves? To quote you: What the feck are you even going on about here, seriously.

You quote Napoleon on good generals Vs lucky generals in southgate's favour before going on to say he's only unsuccessful because he's been unlucky - you say 'the only thing England missed to win stuff is more luck(and possibly Kane not missing crucial chances)'. So which is it? Your argument seems to be predicated upon the fact that we couldn't get a better manager in, which presupposes that Southgate is a top class manager. Do you think that Southgate is a top class manager? Would you be happy with him at Madrid?
 

VP89

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The manager is not on the pitch. He can't defend in place of his players. What the feck are you even going on about here, seriously. How did Southgate throw away a 1-0 lead against Croatia, do explain please


Uh? Back 5 worked just fine in Russia, and he already dropped it for the Euros except when he used it to surprise the opponent - which generally worked, too (see the final)


I'm saying it's very unlikely that you would upgrade given the quality of the job he is doing right now. Pedigree means feck all at international level. Capello is one of the very best managers the sport has ever seen and look how that went.

You are greatly underestimating how difficult it is to even get the results England managed under him(easy draws, sure, you've still cocked those up in the past and hey, remember what Napoleon said about good generals vs lucky ones?) massively overrating the impact of the manager on individual international games, and choosing to ignore the fact that as it stands England are one lucky break away from winning the Euros - like, say, winning a penalty shootout

Tl;dr Southgate is doing a 8/10 job, the only thing England missed to win stuff is more luck(and possibly Kane not missing crucial chances) and the chances of the next guy doing better than that are so small that England would likely be better off sticking with the guy. Want to know the difference between Scaloni and Southgate? His players won a penalty shootout. That's it.
I'm not getting into a drawn out debate about Gareth fecking Southgate. The fact you're winning to exonerate his Croatia match without recognising how he literally lacked any balls to get the team to attack shows you probably haven't actually followed him that closely. Sounds like you've just seen he went to a semi and a final and thought "coh this guy is 8/10".

It's just incredible how lazy the view is here, the man has pursued wrong systems, questionable personnel, poor in game management and failed in every big test, two of which had oppositions he should have been the favourite in. Having a cake walk to finals with amazing squads, one run on your home turf too, doesn't make you a good manager.

There are many managers who would do better than him. He's by nature and tactically an extremely pragmatic coach who eers on the side of caution every time and is very ill suited to a progressive team with an embarrassment of riches in attack.
 

giorno

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Southgate threw away the 1-0 against Croatia by going into his shell and reverting to his default which is cautious and unambitious.
England started hot by pressing aggressively, scored, missed the game-killing goal in incredible fashion, then ran out of energy to press aggressively. Because it was a WC semifinal, and the fact they even had enough left still to press for those 20 minutes was remarkable. At which point you are getting a slow paced game between a team with Brozovic, Modric and Rakitic, vs one with Henderson, Dele and Lingard. England didn't retreat into their shell intentionally. They ran out of options

It's no coincidence that our best points in the second half coincided with us trying to be progressive and our worst coincided with us sitting back.
Your good spells came when Crotia themselves slowed down to breath, that is to say after their equalizer, and then later on when both teams were completely knackered and lost cohesion, leading to a more chaotic game

so we should have been in good shape to maintain the sort of intensity that served us well initially.
Except it was the 6th game in 2 weeks coming in the heeld of a 50/60 games season for those guys. You were not in good shape to mantain high intensity. There's a reason high intensity games are exceedingly rare in these tournaments, often happen in the group stages when they do and by the quarter finals it becomes rare to even see teams play at high intensity in bursts

Just like he did against Italy.
This is the one thing you got right. He went for the same strategy against Italy. This is also the one game that's more open to fair criticism for his management imo

Are you saying that managers have no bearing on the result unless they can step out to play themselves?
On individual games? They rarely do. And when they do it's very noticeable: either the team is hilariously unprepared, or there's an obvious tactical advantage/disadvantage not being exploited/addressed...

Blaming the manager because a defender lost a 1on1 duel to the ball, or another blew a coverage...managers can't control that

You quote Napoleon on good generals Vs lucky generals in southgate's favour before going on to say he's only unsuccessful because he's been unlucky - you say 'the only thing England missed to win stuff is more luck(and possibly Kane not missing crucial chances)'. So which is it?
England haven't been lucky enough. France got Brazil losing to Belgium of all things, beat Belgium off a set piece goal and them being Belgium, and scored on an own goal and a stupidly lucky penalty to take a 2-1 against a fused Croatia in the final - who were actually outplaying them - while not even looking at Croatia's goal. Iirc they took 1 shot in that half - the penalty. And won the game just like that

Italy barely escape Austria, got the usual Lukaku-in-huge-game bonus, then spent 120 minutes getting beaten from pillar to post by Spain and getting to penalties by miracle. Then scored on England off a set piece on the only chance they had in 120 minutes. Won 2 shootouts.

Argentina? How about the Netherlands game? Brazil again falling in self-inflicted fashion, an easy semifinal, and a then a final they nearly threw away before winning on penalties? Would Scaloni be considered a bad manager had they lost the shootout?

Your argument seems to be predicated upon the fact that we couldn't get a better manager in, which presupposes that Southgate is a top class manager.
It does not. It's predicated on actual performance and results across 3 tournaments. Southgate is likely no more than a decent manager. At international level, that's still a lot, but most importantly, he is clearly doing well with this England team. This isn't Flick - a treble winner at Bayern!! - having Germany look disjointed and miserable and going out in the group stages, ffs

Do you think that Southgate is a top class manager? Would you be happy with him at Madrid?
No and no. Also meaningless. England aren't getting the kind of managers Real Madrid can get anytime soon
 

Lay

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There's fine margins in tournament football. If Sterling passes it to Kane, it's 2-0 and the game is probably done. England ran out of legs which is something in itself as Croatia went to extra time every game. You see it when Stones gets dusted by Mandzukic :lol:
 

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Redcafe has become a weird place lately. Reading some of the posts here and in ETH thread, you can fall under the impression that everything happening on the pitch is entirely on the manager and he is the only responsible figure during a game (if he loses anyway, if the team wins it's on luck/players).

Anyway, hire De Zebri and watch people calling him "fraud" exactly 1 year from now...
 

Pickle85

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Redcafe has become a weird place lately. Reading some of the posts here and in ETH thread, you can fall under the impression that everything happening on the pitch is entirely on the manager and he is the only responsible figure during a game (if he loses anyway, if the team wins it's on luck/players).

Anyway, hire De Zebri and watch people calling him "fraud" exactly 1 year from now...
Who said that? It's clear that managers do impact football matches though and that teams with better managers stand a better chance of winning.
 

Marcelinho87

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Redcafe has become a weird place lately. Reading some of the posts here and in ETH thread, you can fall under the impression that everything happening on the pitch is entirely on the manager and he is the only responsible figure during a game (if he loses anyway, if the team wins it's on luck/players).

Anyway, hire De Zebri and watch people calling him "fraud" exactly 1 year from now...
Heh 1 year? Not be that long.
 

Toshey

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Who said that? It's clear that managers do impact football matches though and that teams with better managers stand a better chance of winning.
Managers don't impact the ability of Sterling to have a brain.
Usually the teams with the better players wins. Many managers are called "great" simply because they had the chance to have the best players in their teams.

Bring Guardiola to this current United side and he won't win the league or CL.
Bring ETH to this City side and he'll win the league.

Ole built extremely good and functional United side, but was severely fecked over in the summer after finishing 2nd. We needed amazing DM and CB, instead they brought back Ronaldo who destroyed the team structure, shape and togetherness.
Go back to that summer, get Haaland and proper CM/CB and watch Ole win the league next season.

So yeah, De Zebri won't do anything with the current squad unless he has the best players available. This season we didn't have them. Accidentally, our best performances and runs of form came when our 1st team was fit, who knew.
 

Pickle85

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Managers don't impact the ability of Sterling to have a brain.
Usually the teams with the better players wins. Many managers are called "great" simply because they had the chance to have the best players in their teams.

Bring Guardiola to this current United side and he won't win the league or CL.
Bring ETH to this City side and he'll win the league.

Ole built extremely good and functional United side, but was severely fecked over in the summer after finishing 2nd. We needed amazing DM and CB, instead they brought back Ronaldo who destroyed the team structure, shape and togetherness.
Go back to that summer, get Haaland and proper CM/CB and watch Ole win the league next season.

So yeah, De Zebri won't do anything with the current squad unless he has the best players available. This season we didn't have them. Accidentally, our best performances and runs of form came when our 1st team was fit, who knew.
This is incredibly reductive. Usually the team with the better players are able to pick the better manager. Look at the Bundesliga for a sign of the impact a manager can have on a team. Or look to the way the Spurs have changed how they play and how prolific they remain (despite losing their top goalscorer and talisman).
 

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One of the main drivers of criticism of the likes of De Zerbi on this forum is the idea that your manager has to be a miracle worker. It's not enough that they have, beyond reasonable doubt, demonstrated the ability to set a team up a certain way and play progressive football and even overperform for a period of time in terms of results. No; they have to consistently overperform and continue to win even despite injuries and fixture congestion otherwise there are serious doubts regarding their ability to perform at United, because it's not enough to be a competent manager or a very good, great manager. No, you have to be a magician to work here.
 

Grande

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Nah, we had a better side than both Italy and Croatia and were ahead in both games. That we lost is entirely on Southgate.
I don’t agree you had a better side than Italy, player for player, for such a match. Better or equal sides have lost to Croatia as well, who were one of the most impressive overachievers for two championships in a row. To say that any NT in the world should be certain to win against either of those side in a one off from a one goal lead, is just silly.

But I’m sure you don’t believe that the way to assess a coach well is to see if his team has ever lost a game from a goal up or to a (somewhat) inferior opponent. That would be stupid, of course, as it happens to every single coach several times, including the historical greats of the game.

What separate coaches, are their ability to set up the team to win most games, and to win or not lose most games in the end stages, like a championship. Looking at just finals and semifinals is pretty useless in separating coaches in general, as theiy are one-off tactictical anomalies where coincidences dictate much of how things play out. Just look at most of the all time great coaches, their stats for finals/semifinals are seldom significantly much off from 50/50.

What you can expect from a good coach, is to put his team there or there abouts, and give the team a fighting chance in the tough games. I’d say Southgate has done that very well if you compare him to other NT coaches, wether they have had great club management carreers or not.
 

Stadjer

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Redcafe has become a weird place lately. Reading some of the posts here and in ETH thread, you can fall under the impression that everything happening on the pitch is entirely on the manager and he is the only responsible figure during a game (if he loses anyway, if the team wins it's on luck/players).

Anyway, hire De Zebri and watch people calling him "fraud" exactly 1 year from now...
A year? :lol: A few losses and draws and not putting the, according to the fan calling him a fraud, the right team out and he is a fraud. A fraud that wasted x amount of money and a fraud that needs to be sacked before he does too much damage.
 

Shinjch

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One of the main drivers of criticism of the likes of De Zerbi on this forum is the idea that your manager has to be a miracle worker. It's not enough that they have, beyond reasonable doubt, demonstrated the ability to set a team up a certain way and play progressive football and even overperform for a period of time in terms of results. No; they have to consistently overperform and continue to win even despite injuries and fixture congestion otherwise there are serious doubts regarding their ability to perform at United, because it's not enough to be a competent manager or a very good, great manager. No, you have to be a magician to work here.
Could you replace De Zerbi with Ten Hag in this post and it still ring true?
 

Grande

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One of the main drivers of criticism of the likes of De Zerbi on this forum is the idea that your manager has to be a miracle worker. It's not enough that they have, beyond reasonable doubt, demonstrated the ability to set a team up a certain way and play progressive football and even overperform for a period of time in terms of results. No; they have to consistently overperform and continue to win even despite injuries and fixture congestion otherwise there are serious doubts regarding their ability to perform at United, because it's not enough to be a competent manager or a very good, great manager. No, you have to be a magician to work here.
This is true for the criticisms of De Zerbi and Potter, and even more true for Ten Hag, who until this summer has been seen as something close to a miracle worker. The problem at a club like United, is that the team and staff and manager will inevitably always be affected by the hoards of people thinking that a ‘worthy’ manager of Man Utd must be a miracle worker and hence not allow bad spells, so at the firat or second bad spells, there will be a mass hysteria over the coach not being good enough, which of cours affects the team and the staff in tje long run.
 

NoPace

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England started hot by pressing aggressively, scored, missed the game-killing goal in incredible fashion, then ran out of energy to press aggressively. Because it was a WC semifinal, and the fact they even had enough left still to press for those 20 minutes was remarkable. At which point you are getting a slow paced game between a team with Brozovic, Modric and Rakitic, vs one with Henderson, Dele and Lingard. England didn't retreat into their shell intentionally. They ran out of options
I'm not some Southgate fan (wouldn't want him as our manager at all) but I think he's done a good job for England and if he goes to some Prem club and flops I'd still be interested in hiring him if I was an International team looking for a manager and he fit well.

Lingard played that entire game and the midfielders on the bench seem to have been Fabian Delph (coming off his only good year for City but as a left-back - though for them it's a quasi-midfield role and his main position was a a midfielder before then -), Eric Dier and Loftus-Cheek, who was a very strong ball carrier but otherwise a distinctly average midfielder for Palace. A #10 who can't pass forward or defend like Lingard, a 2nd striker like Dele Alli and Henderson with those bench options just isn't a serious midfield for a game against those Croats (or damn near any of the best 10 teams in the world).

If you're chasing a game with 10 minutes to go, sure whatever Lingard was in form, I guess, Dele Alli was genuinely dangerous and Henderson has his strengths and had legs back then (though definitely not my first choice for that sort of role, or Klopp's, as they spent fairly big on Fabinho to upgrade on Emre Can to give them an actually strong defensive option there). But you can't play that sort of team without either a fantastic system everyone knows well (rare in international football for anyone, almost unprecedented for England at least since 1990) and not either press and hope you get some goals and get ahead, or defend for your lives very deep.
 

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When De Zerbi was doing really well a few months ago with Brighton, most people were starting to overrate him.

Now that he's struggling, which is down to a lot of things, you're starting to underestimate him.

This is why not looking for context, and just googling "Brighton results" and drawing a conclusion based on that is useless...

He's a really good coach, if ETH goes, I'm happy with him being one of the candidates for the job.
 

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One of the main drivers of criticism of the likes of De Zerbi on this forum is the idea that your manager has to be a miracle worker. It's not enough that they have, beyond reasonable doubt, demonstrated the ability to set a team up a certain way and play progressive football and even overperform for a period of time in terms of results. No; they have to consistently overperform and continue to win even despite injuries and fixture congestion otherwise there are serious doubts regarding their ability to perform at United, because it's not enough to be a competent manager or a very good, great manager. No, you have to be a magician to work here.
The manager also can't lose, ever. If they've lost before regardless of what team they're managing then it's over. They're not good enough
 

tomaldinho1

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When De Zerbi was doing really well a few months ago with Brighton, most people were starting to overrate him.

Now that he's struggling, which is down to a lot of things, you're starting to underestimate him.

This is why not looking for context, and just googling "Brighton results" and drawing a conclusion based on that is useless...

He's a really good coach, if ETH goes, I'm happy with him being one of the candidates for the job.
People overthink this stuff and also put way too mcuh focus on the manager some godly figure who will make or break our fortunes. If the recruitment setup becomes more competent, we'll basically have a pool of highly rated coaches (of which De Zerbi is definitely one) who play a way Ineos want (which we don't know if De Zerbi is one) and they'll make a shortlist and do interviews and then hire someone. If they aren't doing as well as hoped, they will fire them and rinse repeat the process with the big difference to how things used to be, that even chopping and changing managers we'll not need squad overhauls and huge spending because the broad style should stay similar.
 

giorno

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Could you replace De Zerbi with Ten Hag in this post and it still ring true?
Not really. Ten Hag has been in charge for how long now? Nearly two full seasons, like 20 months? And United have been good for what, 4 months during that stretch? 4 good months out of 20 isn't a good return no matter the circumstances

You might believe that circumstances were so bad that Ten Hag being poor was inevitable, and you believe him to be a good manager who deserves a real chance to coach the team with good bosses above him, better luck with fitness and players off field issues, etc. But it would be a judgement still made largely on his work at Ajax. Because at United at this point he hasn't shown nearly enough to deserve the job
 

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Not really. Ten Hag has been in charge for how long now? Nearly two full seasons, like 20 months? And United have been good for what, 4 months during that stretch? 4 good months out of 20 isn't a good return no matter the circumstances

You might believe that circumstances were so bad that Ten Hag being poor was inevitable, and you believe him to be a good manager who deserves a real chance to coach the team with good bosses above him, better luck with fitness and players off field issues, etc. But it would be a judgement still made largely on his work at Ajax. Because at United at this point he hasn't shown nearly enough to deserve the job
I believe taking that squad to two cup finals last season, winning one of them, and getting them to third in the league was a good season - especially with all the nonsense going on at the club.

This season has been very poor, there is context around that but many consider that context to be excuses for United. I don't see any of the candidates having better CVs than what Ten Hag had when he was at Ajax, and I see major downsides pretty much all of the potential candidates to replace him. I'm quite apathetic to whether or not Ten Hag keeps his job now, but I think the most likely outcome from that is that the next manager comes in and has a decent to good first season before the wheels comes off in the second season and we are back where we are now anyway.
 

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I'm not some Southgate fan (wouldn't want him as our manager at all) but I think he's done a good job for England and if he goes to some Prem club and flops I'd still be interested in hiring him if I was an International team looking for a manager and he fit well.

Lingard played that entire game and the midfielders on the bench seem to have been Fabian Delph (coming off his only good year for City but as a left-back - though for them it's a quasi-midfield role and his main position was a a midfielder before then -), Eric Dier and Loftus-Cheek, who was a very strong ball carrier but otherwise a distinctly average midfielder for Palace. A #10 who can't pass forward or defend like Lingard, a 2nd striker like Dele Alli and Henderson with those bench options just isn't a serious midfield for a game against those Croats (or damn near any of the best 10 teams in the world).

If you're chasing a game with 10 minutes to go, sure whatever Lingard was in form, I guess, Dele Alli was genuinely dangerous and Henderson has his strengths and had legs back then (though definitely not my first choice for that sort of role, or Klopp's, as they spent fairly big on Fabinho to upgrade on Emre Can to give them an actually strong defensive option there). But you can't play that sort of team without either a fantastic system everyone knows well (rare in international football for anyone, almost unprecedented for England at least since 1990) and not either press and hope you get some goals and get ahead, or defend for your lives very deep.
As stated a couple of posts earlier:
No more off-topic posts, please. Thanks! :)
 

KeanoMagicHat

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When De Zerbi was doing really well a few months ago with Brighton, most people were starting to overrate him.

Now that he's struggling, which is down to a lot of things, you're starting to underestimate him.

This is why not looking for context, and just googling "Brighton results" and drawing a conclusion based on that is useless...

He's a really good coach, if ETH goes, I'm happy with him being one of the candidates for the job.
Graham Potter doesn't seem to get the same leeway though. Some people were almost saying like Potter was holding Brighton back after De Zerbi had that good run last season, despite the fact Potter left when they were 4th in the league (albeit very early on) and the way their team was building you would have expected a good finish. Previous season they were 9th. This season they're 9th again. Same with Chelsea under Pochettino, was supposed to get much better without Potter, and he was sacked with them 11th in the table, without even getting to a pre-season. Yet Chelsea are now 11th in the Premier League this season again after 26 games.
 

Mb194dc

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Graham Potter doesn't seem to get the same leeway though. Some people were almost saying like Potter was holding Brighton back after De Zerbi had that good run last season, despite the fact Potter left when they were 4th in the league (albeit very early on) and the way their team was building you would have expected a good finish. Previous season they were 9th. This season they're 9th again. Same with Chelsea under Pochettino, was supposed to get much better without Potter, and he was sacked with them 11th in the table, without even getting to a pre-season. Yet Chelsea are now 11th in the Premier League this season again after 26 games.
Potter was very harshly treated by us. The squad was a shambles with far too many players and lots of them unhappy. As you say, Poch hasn't improved us despite another window and a much leaner squad without the bloat or unhappy players.

De Zerbi riding off Potter's coat tails I think at Brighton, how they were playing was already established, he just had to continue what Potter was doing. Setting it up in the first place and getting Brighton to that position was harder and that was Potter on the coaching side. I think Potter will go and do a decent job somewhere once he's given another chance.
 

DJ_21

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Don’t think he’s been helped by playing 2 games a week. They don’t have the squad for that. Especially when they sell there best players every season.
 

dubplate warrior

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I still think he's a great manager, but his style of play requires top players and I'm pretty sure that at the bigger European clubs he would smash it.

I remember Pep getting smashed 4-0 by Everton in his first season and making 4th until he got his players in.
 

Rojofiam

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People overthink this stuff and also put way too mcuh focus on the manager some godly figure who will make or break our fortunes. If the recruitment setup becomes more competent, we'll basically have a pool of highly rated coaches (of which De Zerbi is definitely one) who play a way Ineos want (which we don't know if De Zerbi is one) and they'll make a shortlist and do interviews and then hire someone. If they aren't doing as well as hoped, they will fire them and rinse repeat the process with the big difference to how things used to be, that even chopping and changing managers we'll not need squad overhauls and huge spending because the broad style should stay similar.
I agree, think Ineos are trying to create an environment like Bayern or Madrid where managers are not the end-all and be-all of everything, which is the way to go IMO.

Still, the very first one they'll hire should still be a rebuilder type if it was up to me, not someone like Ancelotti/Zidane who are used to having an easier job on their hands.

Graham Potter doesn't seem to get the same leeway though. Some people were almost saying like Potter was holding Brighton back after De Zerbi had that good run last season, despite the fact Potter left when they were 4th in the league (albeit very early on) and the way their team was building you would have expected a good finish. Previous season they were 9th. This season they're 9th again. Same with Chelsea under Pochettino, was supposed to get much better without Potter, and he was sacked with them 11th in the table, without even getting to a pre-season. Yet Chelsea are now 11th in the Premier League this season again after 26 games.
I don't know, I think comparing league placements are also very inconclusive, but I also feel that Potter is better than his reputation suggests.
 

tomaldinho1

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I agree, think Ineos are trying to create an environment like Bayern or Madrid where managers are not the end-all and be-all of everything, which is the way to go IMO.

Still, the very first one they'll hire should still be a rebuilder type if it was up to me, not someone like Ancelotti/Zidane who are used to having an easier job on their hands.



I don't know, I think comparing league placements are also very inconclusive, but I also feel that Potter is better than his reputation suggests.
I'm not sure any club ever really gets 'rebuilt', it just became a buzzword for United fans with the idea we could build back to what we once were. The truth is, a good coach will motivate the players and get enough results to get a couple of transfer windows and then we should see their vision. Issue for all the post LVG coaches is no one really knows what the end product was meant to be, did we high press? Not really? Did we dominate the ball? No. It's very easy to coach counter attacking when you have the 4th or 5th squad in the league on paper, it's much harder to either force the players to put themselves through the grinder to make a high press setup work or put a possession based system in place.
 

Joel Miller

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This is maybe more suited to that “weird feelings about football” thread, but I feel like Brighton generally do really well, but when they do get beat it often seems to be an absolute pasting, like a 3 or 4 nil defeat.
 

CM

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His teams have been pumped a few times now haven't they? It's one of the reasons I wouldn't want him here. When it goes wrong it goes badly wrong.
Said it earlier in the thread but the propensity for his teams being pumped would be a massive concern. I really hope INEOS revise their position on De Zerbi if he's a serious contender for the job in the summer. We've been on the wrong end of too many humiliations in recent years to be signing up for more.
 

Rojofiam

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I'm not sure any club ever really gets 'rebuilt', it just became a buzzword for United fans with the idea we could build back to what we once were. The truth is, a good coach will motivate the players and get enough results to get a couple of transfer windows and then we should see their vision. Issue for all the post LVG coaches is no one really knows what the end product was meant to be, did we high press? Not really? Did we dominate the ball? No. It's very easy to coach counter attacking when you have the 4th or 5th squad in the league on paper, it's much harder to either force the players to put themselves through the grinder to make a high press setup work or put a possession based system in place.
I meant that a new manager would have to rebuild the squad, not the club itself. That will be Ineos' job. Maybe rebuild is not the correct word, but you know what I meant. Reshape, maybe?
 

giorno

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The pastings come down to the fact that De Zerbi is a maniac. His playing style is really extreme, and likewise, really unforgiving of mistakes(or losing individual duels). His history also suggests he might just be poor at coaching transition defence as it's something every one of his teams was bad at - part of which is that his teams are also a bit extreme in how they press - favouring generating turnovers over stopping attacks, which means they hedge to the ball instead of taking up preventive positions the way City or Arsenal do
 

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I hear he also did a pretty good job at Sussudio, but looking at their standings over the years, it doesn't look like there was a significant difference when he was there vs. before he took over and after he left. Any Serie A fans care to weigh in?
 

giorno

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I hear he also did a pretty good job at Sussudio, but looking at their standings over the years, it doesn't look like there was a significant difference when he was there vs. before he took over and after he left. Any Serie A fans care to weigh in?
That was Phil Collins peak
 

Grande

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The pastings come down to the fact that De Zerbi is a maniac. His playing style is really extreme, and likewise, really unforgiving of mistakes(or losing individual duels). His history also suggests he might just be poor at coaching transition defence as it's something every one of his teams was bad at - part of which is that his teams are also a bit extreme in how they press - favouring generating turnovers over stopping attacks, which means they hedge to the ball instead of taking up preventive positions the way City or Arsenal do
Really sounds like disaster recipe for this United squad.