Romelu Lukaku | Mourinho Part III | Roma watch

[Champ]

Yeah if you completely ignore the fact that Martial played a lot fewer minutes and actually scored at a better rate but ok, I'll use your logic then...



So Martial scored more than Lukaku, that usually points towards a more prolific goalscorer

Ah, so now you see how ridiculous it all is.
Can't have your cake and eat it unfortunately.
Lukaku has scored at a much better rate than Martial. If you take Martials first 96 games and compare to Lukaku, Lukaku still beats him.

But but he's a left winger etc etc...
Two different players, very hard to compare, Martial the better player, Lukaku the better scorer. I don't think that's controversial

 

[adexkola]

Regardless of where you stand on the Lukaku issue, it was a foregone conclusion on here that moving him on would enable us to play more free flowing football.

That hasn't panned out.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Ah, so now you see how ridiculous it all is.
Can't have your cake and eat it unfortunately.
Lukaku has scored at a much better rate than Martial. If you take Martials first 96 games and compare to Lukaku, Lukaku still beats him.

But but he's a left winger etc etc...
Two different players, very hard to compare, Martial the better player, Lukaku the better scorer. I don't think that's controversial

Martial was 18 years old when he signed for Man United, Lukaku was 24 years old, how can you compare a kid moving to a new country who was still learning and having to adapt to PL football to a player entering his prime years and had already played in the PL for 6 years before signing for Man United.

Totally ridiculous!

 

[Amir]

Regardless of where you stand on the Lukaku issue, it was a foregone conclusion on here that moving him on would enable us to play more free flowing football.

That hasn't panned out.

Not completely, but there have been more than glimpses of it at times.

 

[Champ]

Martial was 18 years old when he signed for Man United, Lukaku was 24 years old, how can you compare a kid moving to a new country who was still learning and having to adapt to PL football to a player entering his prime years and had already played in the PL for 6 years before signing for Man United.

Totally ridiculous!

Yes it is.
As is comparing any players who play different styles and have different roles within the team.
But here we are.
Lets compare Martial now he's 24, games 7, goals 2.
Not really Lukaku level really is it. Lukaku actually scored 17 in his first full season in the prem also, for West Brom! So yeah there's always that.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Yes it is.
As is comparing any players who play different styles and have different roles within the team.
But here we are.
Lets compare Martial now he's 24, games 7, goals 2.
Not really Lukaku level really is it. Lukaku actually scored 17 in his first full season in the prem also, for West Brom! So yeah there's always that.

So wait, now you're making some point that stats are ridiculous and you shouldn't compare players. Weird seeing as you said this earlier:

Yeah 42 goals in 96 games is poor isn't it.
A goal every two games or so.
How about you compare that poor scoring record to Martial or Rashford,
I dare you.

You can't eat your cake and have it too

Lukaku averaged 176 minutes per goal in all comps while he was here. Last season Martial's record was 155 minutes per goal, Rashford's was 158 minutes per goal and Greenwood's was 144 minutes per goal.

Martial may well prove not to be as good of a goalscorer as Lukaku but in his first season as a number 9 he's proven to be just as prolific as Lukaku was when he was here and we both agree he's a better player. It's weird you seem to be trying so hard to discredit Man Utd players over one who decided to leave us the moment he wasn't undisputed first choice. I personally prefer to get behind the players who stay at United and hope they do well, it's odd that you don't.

 

[NotThatSoph]

To all those people pining over Lukaku, do you actually enjoy watching him play? So glad he’s gone personally. Football is more than just numbers

Who's pining?

 

[RashyForPM]

Regardless of where you stand on the Lukaku issue, it was a foregone conclusion on here that moving him on would enable us to play more free flowing football.

That hasn't panned out.

This is the same forum that thought Zlatan’s 2017 suspension after the Mings elbow would suddenly allow the inexperienced Rashford and Martial, and defensive Mourinho to come to life and score loads of goals. What actually happened? A 1-3 win against Boro where we toiled at 1-2 for the last 20 minutes until Valdes did a Valdes, a shocking 0-0 draw with WBA and a tumescent 1-0 loss to Chelsea.

Just saying everyone, binning the big striker will not suddenly make us an expansive, free-flowing team. Football doesn’t work like that. To play fluid, attacking football, we’ll need more than quick attackers. Good coaching, intelligent movement, hard work for 90 minutes (Martial should take note) and perfect passing (sounds simple, but we screw up loads of simple passes every game) are more important than simply having a striker who can constantly run in behind.

Just to clarify though, I’m not saying we should have kept Lukaku. His billy big bollocks and media-friendly attitude would be nothing but detrimental to this young team.

 

[Orestetes]

That's actually Batshuayi's record, so it kinda suggests that they can

It is? That's a pretty good record by Batshuayi. Proves he's not nearly as bad or average as the general opinion around him. I still stand my case that you don't get to 57 international goals by being an average striker. Lukaku isn't flawless, but he's good at what he does, finishing.

 

[RobinLFC]

Guess you weren't around when we were in the wilderness all those years putting out strikers like Ogunjimi, Vandenbergh, Sonck and Buffel. That goal against Croatia send us to our first tournament in 12 years and since then he went on to become our topscorer of all-time. Have some respect please, we might be back in the wilderness sooner than you think when Lukaku calls it a day.

I was - the fact that we had a decade of average players before him doesn't mean I should automatically like him or think he's great though? Not sure what that has to do with anything. And I mentioned in the post you quoted that his goals against Croatia were important ones.

Van Himst was on 30 goals, any half decent striker would've broken that in this current side. Even Hazard, not even known for his goalscoring apart from his penalties for us, has surpassed the previous record since.

Having Lukaku is great against smaller countries but does us more harm than good in big games against the top of the world. He's better than the other ones, but that's not saying much.

 

[RobinLFC]

It is? That's a pretty good record by Batshuayi. Proves he's not nearly as bad or average as the general opinion around him. I still stand my case that you don't get to 57 international goals by being an average striker. Lukaku isn't flawless, but he's good at what he does, finishing.

Of course he's a "good striker". But we needed a great one to get over the hump in international tournaments, not Lukaku.

 

[Che Guevara]

To all those people pining over Lukaku, do you actually enjoy watching him play? So glad he’s gone personally. Football is more than just numbers

Goals are everything in football, and Lukaku's goals are the reason Belgium is the top ranked team in world football. Spectacle is for Harlem Globetrotters fans.

 

[Champ]

So wait, now you're making some point that stats are ridiculous and you shouldn't compare players. Weird seeing as you said this earlier:



You can't eat your cake and have it too

Lukaku averaged 176 minutes per goal in all comps while he was here. Last season Martial's record was 155 minutes per goal, Rashford's was 158 minutes per goal and Greenwood's was 144 minutes per goal.

Martial may well prove not to be as good of a goalscorer as Lukaku but in his first season as a number 9 he's proven to be just as prolific as Lukaku was when he was here and we both agree he's a better player. It's weird you seem to be trying so hard to discredit Man Utd players over one who decided to leave us the moment he wasn't undisputed first choice. I personally prefer to get behind the players who stay at United and hope they do well, it's odd that you don't.

Sorry, where's the stats that I defined there?
Someone quipping a truth that a player has a goal every two games is hardly reeling pointless loaded biased stats is it now?
I kind off feel we have gone off track somewhat however.
I am not discrediting anyone, once again merely stating that a player we let go is a more natural goalscorer than what we have now, I have explicitly states numerous times that I believe Martial is a better player than Lukaku, but when one takes what they want from certain things you often end up with things missing.
You're entitled to your opinions of course, and I respect them, but trying to use loaded stats to try to pad that argument isn't the way forward.
Especially when the opinion forthcoming is of equal intellect and has just as much if not more credence than your willing to let on.

 

[Matthew84!]

I think Lukaku is a good player, will score lots of goals for Inter but he didn't fit our system unfortunately, Martial is a completely different player, still young but needs to improve his consistency, hasn't had the best of starts as yet

 

[Posh Red]

Who's pining?

Feels that way when every time he scores we have loads of comments about how much better he is than our current options apparently. Never been so happy to see the back of a player who apparently hated his time here from his very first week.

 

[Posh Red]

Goals are everything in football, and Lukaku's goals are the reason Belgium is the top ranked team in world football. Spectacle is for Harlem Globetrotters fans.

Goals are important, but so is flair, being a team player and bringing joy to the fans. The guy said he hated it here from week one and still we have people saying we were wrong to let him go? Madness

 

[fergie_god]

Goals are everything in football, and Lukaku's goals are the reason Belgium is the top ranked team in world football. Spectacle is for Harlem Globetrotters fans.

Yeah but most united supporters at least have some standards of playstyle imo. We've tried the whole pragmatic approach with LVG and Jose and it just felt wrong.

 

[Peyroteo]

I don’t understand how people can say he scores a lot of goals but makes the team worse overall when Inter have looked half the team when he isn’t on the pitch.

He’s improved from when he was at United and he’s undoubtedly one of the best strikers in the world right now.

 

[Stacks]

Flat track bully and a very difficult personality to like. For lack of better options at the moment I can stand him being in the team but the sooner we find our new striker and Lukaku fecks off, the better.

His last two important goals that I can recount are the ones in Croatia which qualified us for the World Cup in 2014 for the first time since 2002. Since then he hasn't scored against any opposition equal to / better than us (e.g. the likes of Spain, Italy, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, ...). During two World Cups and one European Cup, he scored a grand total of 1 goal during all the KO stages.

Think he scored the winner in e.t.a of the world cup 2nd round vs USA

Guess you weren't around when we were in the wilderness all those years putting out strikers like Ogunjimi, Vandenbergh, Sonck and Buffel. That goal against Croatia send us to our first tournament in 12 years and since then he went on to become our topscorer of all-time. Have some respect please, we might be back in the wilderness sooner than you think when Lukaku calls it a day.

Not just him, all the other greats you have just had in the last 8 years. For all his goals not a single title win or even a finals appearance despite one of the worlds best supporting cast.

I was - the fact that we had a decade of average players before him doesn't mean I should automatically like him or think he's great though? Not sure what that has to do with anything. And I mentioned in the post you quoted that his goals against Croatia were important ones.

Van Himst was on 30 goals, any half decent striker would've broken that in this current side. Even Hazard, not even known for his goalscoring apart from his penalties for us, has surpassed the previous record since.

Having Lukaku is great against smaller countries but does us more harm than good in big games against the top of the world. He's better than the other ones, but that's not saying much.

I thought this too but sometimes felt maybe I was being harsh. One goal in world cup 2014, 2 goals in Euro 2016 (zero in knock outs), 4 goals in world cup 2018 group stage (zero in the 4 knock out games)

It would probably be the same had the 2020 Euros taken place and is a recurring theme. This Belgium team needed a Thierry Henry, Cristiano, Ronaldo, David Villa, maybe even Zlatan

Goals are everything in football, and Lukaku's goals are the reason Belgium is the top ranked team in world football. Spectacle is for Harlem Globetrotters fans.

And never reach finals of any major tournament. Being ranked number one is meaningless. Just means you can win loads of friendlies, nation cup games and trounce your pathetic qualifying groups. I am sure Belgium would be there or there about's with Batman.

Remember Spain back in the day, entering every competition with the high rankings but only reaching quarter finals. Heck England used to be high ranked once but it meant nada once we actually started competing.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I don’t understand how people can say he scores a lot of goals but makes the team worse overall when Inter have looked half the team when he isn’t on the pitch.

He’s improved from when he was at United and he’s undoubtedly one of the best strikers in the world right now.

I don't think he has improved as such. Everyone and the dog predicted that he will score tons of goals in Italy.
He can play in certain systems and if the rest of the team plays in a way to make him effective, then he scores lots of goals.

If he will come back to PL, he will once again be in the same situation as 2 years back.

 

[Peyroteo]

I don't think he has improved as such. Everyone and the dog predicted that he will score tons of goals in Italy.
He can play in certain systems and if the rest of the team plays in a way to make him effective, then he scores lots of goals.

If he will come back to PL, he will once again be in the same situation as 2 years back.

He scores in Italy, scores in Europe, scores for Belgium... he scores everywhere.

40 goals in his last 38 games for Belgium and 11 in 13 in Europe for Inter

 

[crossy1686]

Would people actually take him back?

I'd rather never see him in a United shirt ever again personally.

 

[NotThatSoph]

Feels that way when every time he scores we have loads of comments about how much better he is than our current options apparently. Never been so happy to see the back of a player who apparently hated his time here from his very first week.

I've seen a grand total of one poster saying he would be our best striker. Maybe there's one than one, but not many. Quite a few, me included, think he would have strengthened our squad. I think he would've been a nice alternative to Martial up top compared to Cavani/Ighalo, and a nice alternative to Greenwood on the right compared to James/Mata. Not a lot of people are unhappy that he was sold, a few are lamenting that he wasn't replaced properly, while approximately zero people want to buy him back.

This thread is usually a back and forth between people who think he's quite good and people who think he's a Sunday League player.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Sorry, where's the stats that I defined there?
Someone quipping a truth that a player has a goal every two games is hardly reeling pointless loaded biased stats is it now?
I kind off feel we have gone off track somewhat however.
I am not discrediting anyone, once again merely stating that a player we let go is a more natural goalscorer than what we have now, I have explicitly states numerous times that I believe Martial is a better player than Lukaku, but when one takes what they want from certain things you often end up with things missing.
You're entitled to your opinions of course, and I respect them, but trying to use loaded stats to try to pad that argument isn't the way forward.
Especially when the opinion forthcoming is of equal intellect and has just as much if not more credence than your willing to let on.

You said Lukaku is a better goalscorer than our forwards - you literally dared people to compare their stats. I compared their goal to minute ratios while they were both at the club - I'm not sure how much more direct of a comparison you can get yet now you're saying they are pointless loaded stats.

Meanwhile, you're the guy who bigged up Lukaku for scoring more league goals than our front 3 last season, while he plays for a different club in a different league.

You're a confused guy

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Would people actually take him back?

I'd rather never see him in a United shirt ever again personally.

Nah It would not make sense right now.
He is getting older too.
Go for a younger upcoming striker instead. Try to find some cheaper gem.
Same as Di Maria in would not really make sense too. Go for another right winger instead.
Depay maybe more sense, but not sure he is at the high level needed.

 

[Apokalips]

Remember Spain back in the day, entering every competition with the high rankings but only reaching quarter finals. Heck England used to be high ranked once but it meant nada once we actually started competing.

Used to? Check the current world rankings bro! I wonder if anyone in the world actually does care about the world rankings? Maybe Greece would have preferred a high ranking than their trophy at Euro 2004?

On topic, Lukaku is a great goalscorer but has loose technique and rarely shows up against the top teams when mistakes are usually costly - see Europa League Final. There are plenty of strikers like Mario Gomez or Luca Toni who were banging goalscorers, but not a must have player, very similarly to Lukaku. Dynamism counts for a lot at the very top level and if players like Martial and Rashford can reach their potential they will far outshine Lukaku overall and let's not also forget Lukaku's horrendous level of arrogance and poor attitude, including his atrocious fitness.

 

[Posh Red]

I've seen a grand total of one poster saying he would be our best striker. Maybe there's one than one, but not many. Quite a few, me included, think he would have strengthened our squad. I think he would've been a nice alternative to Martial up top compared to Cavani/Ighalo, and a nice alternative to Greenwood on the right compared to James/Mata. Not a lot of people are unhappy that he was sold, a few are lamenting that he wasn't replaced properly, while approximately zero people want to buy him back.

This thread is usually a back and forth between people who think he's quite good and people who think he's a Sunday League player.

All of that completely ignores the fact that the player himself said he hated it here. The rest is therefore irrelevant

 

[Stacks]

Used to? Check the current world rankings bro! I wonder if anyone in the world actually does care about the world rankings? Maybe Greece would have preferred a high ranking than their trophy at Euro 2004?

On topic, Lukaku is a great goalscorer but has loose technique and rarely shows up against the top teams when mistakes are usually costly - see Europa League Final. There are plenty of strikers like Mario Gomez or Luca Toni who were banging goalscorers, but not a must have player, very similarly to Lukaku. Dynamism counts for a lot at the very top level and if players like Martial and Rashford can reach their potential they will far outshine Lukaku overall and let's not also forget Lukaku's horrendous level of arrogance and poor attitude, including his atrocious fitness.

4th best in the world sheesh. On paper we have an exciting team but with the Euros cancelled we will never know.
I completely forgot about the Gomez' and Toni's of the world. You can throw Klose in there too as well as Roy Makaay

 

[RedDevil@84]

He scores in Italy, scores in Europe, scores for Belgium... he scores everywhere.

40 goals in his last 38 games for Belgium and 11 in 13 in Europe for Inter

All I am saying there is no mark improvement from the player he was here. For Belgium, he scored 20+ goals in as many games in the 2 years he spent at United. It is not something new.

He is effective in a system. But clearly United didn't play like that. Italian league will allow him more breathing space to score goals. And everyone predicted that he would score lots of goals there.

 

[Stacks]

I've seen a grand total of one poster saying he would be our best striker. Maybe there's one than one, but not many. Quite a few, me included, think he would have strengthened our squad. I think he would've been a nice alternative to Martial up top compared to Cavani/Ighalo, and a nice alternative to Greenwood on the right compared to James/Mata. Not a lot of people are unhappy that he was sold, a few are lamenting that he wasn't replaced properly, while approximately zero people want to buy him back.

This thread is usually a back and forth between people who think he's quite good and people who think he's a Sunday League player.

you're pretty good at this.

 

[Champ]

You said Lukaku is a better goalscorer than our forwards - you literally dared people to compare their stats. I compared their goal to minute ratios while they were both at the club - I'm not sure how much more direct of a comparison you can get yet now you're saying they are pointless loaded stats.

Meanwhile, you're the guy who bigged up Lukaku for scoring more league goals than our front 3 last season, while he plays for a different club in a different league.

You're a confused guy

I didn't dare, I quipped a truth, one that cannot be disputed.
Yet you are despite evidence suggesting the contrary.
Lukaku is a better goalscorer than Martial, every stat you wish to find will back that up, unless you want to pick selective ones that almost very almost prove your point (more game time inherently more often than not will lower a goals per minute ratio, due to less goals being at beginning not games etc).
However I'd have Martial in my team over Lukaku as Martial is the better player.

 

[NotThatSoph]

All of that completely ignores the fact that the player himself said he hated it here. The rest is therefore irrelevant

No, the fact that he said he hated it here does not warp reality into people saying things they didn't say.

you're pretty good at this.

Thought I'd give it a go.

 

[Posh Red]

No, the fact that he said he hated it here does not warp reality into people saying things they didn't say.


Thought I'd give it a go.

Okay fair enough people don’t specifically say ‘we should never have sold him’ but that’s certainly how it comes across from some for me. Maybe I’m imagining things

 

[MalcolmTucker]

However I'd have Martial in my team over Lukaku as Martial is the better player.

Let's just agree on that mate, life's too short to spend any more time arguing about Lukaku

 

[RobinLFC]

Think he scored the winner in e.t.a of the world cup 2nd round vs USA

Technically he did but that's re-writing history a bit. He (as usual) couldn't create anything when they were defending deep, then KDB scored the 1-0, the USA needed to attack and Lukaku scored the 2-0 immediately thereafter. Actually that sums him up in a nutshell

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

All of that completely ignores the fact that the player himself said he hated it here. The rest is therefore irrelevant

you can see through that can’t you?

typical BS from Lukaku so that he can make an excuse about his form and fitness that’s not his fault.

don’t believe it for a second when Jose was manager. Ole saw him for what he was and sidelined him, at that point he would have been unhappy. But that wasn’t the case for 18 months.

 

[GifLord]

4th best in the world sheesh. On paper we have an exciting team but with the Euros cancelled we will never know.
I completely forgot about the Gomez' and Toni's of the world. You can throw Klose in there too as well as Roy Makaay

He was a tier above all those mentioned - in his prime easily a top 10 striker in the world

 

[Orestetes]

Of course he's a "good striker". But we needed a great one to get over the hump in international tournaments, not Lukaku.

Perhaps so. It would be a good experiment to settle the Lukaku debate for all. Can someone give Lewandowski the Belgian nationality at the next Euro tournament?

 

[Stacks]

He was a tier above all those mentioned - in his prime easily a top 10 striker in the world

fair enough I went too far. I did actually rate Makaay its just that Ruud was the Dutch Don at the time.

 

[Champ]

Let's just agree on that mate, life's too short to spend any more time arguing about Lukaku

Agreed with that mate
Thank goodness the international break is over eh, can get back to watching United.