It's just so they are able to say out loud to their partners in the developing world that they are on the side of peace. And never give back the territories that they have already occupied.Then why are they looking for peace negotiations?
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The obvious drawback of Ukraine doing the same is that Russia can use it as a pretext to escalate with far more destructive (but not nuclear) weapons in Ukraine. This is one of the reasons the Ukrainians often publicly deny their operations inside Russia, as publicizing them would needlessly cede moral leverage to Putin.Whilst I would never advocate for the targeting and killing of civilians, it does feel like for the average Russian, they probably don’t particularly care about this war because it doesn’t really affect them in most cases.
Perhaps a few strikes on actual urban areas would open their eyes and bring reality home a bit, and therefore put more pressure on Putin. It would be hard to justify though, and would risk causing Ukraines support and morale high ground to dry up. Still it’s ridiculous that Russia can just keep striking Ukrainian civilian centres but apparently Ukraine isn’t allowed to retaliate.
Or it would sway/cement the sentiment amongst Russian people, then escalate the war which could have a major effect on the morale of Ukrainians. Could also affect sentiment elsewhere.Whilst I would never advocate for the targeting and killing of civilians, it does feel like for the average Russian, they probably don’t particularly care about this war because it doesn’t really affect them in most cases.
Perhaps a few strikes on actual urban areas would open their eyes and bring reality home a bit, and therefore put more pressure on Putin. It would be hard to justify though, and would risk causing Ukraines support and morale high ground to dry up. Still it’s ridiculous that Russia can just keep striking Ukrainian civilian centres but apparently Ukraine isn’t allowed to retaliate.
With a typical mindset, this would certainly be the case. If this war has taught us anything though, it seems to be that the typical Russian mindset is very different.Or it would sway/cement the sentiment amongst Russian people, then escalate the war which could have a major effect on the morale of Ukrainians. Could also affect sentiment elsewhere.
I think Ukraine need to be seen as the good guys as much as possible.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023...e-talks-if-kyiv-cedes-occupied-regions-a79877Are they?
Those are obviously not terms the Ukrainians will ever agree to given that it would cement Russian victory and theft of internationally recognized Ukrainian land.https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023...e-talks-if-kyiv-cedes-occupied-regions-a79877
According to this they are.
I assume you are referring to my post which started with "Whilst I would never advocate for the targeting and killing of civilians"Bombing civilians can never be the answer, never. I can't beleive someone is actually suggesting that on here.
Agreed, tough the poster I was alluding to said that the continuation of the conflict favoured Russia, which doesn't make sense for a country looking to wrap things up and legalize their thefts as soon as possible.Those are obviously not terms the Ukrainians will ever agree to given that it would cement Russian victory and theft of internationally recognized Ukrainian land.
Yeah, I would agree with that. The only plausible reason I could see Putin wanting to play the long game is for a new US administration to be elected in 2024, that would then reduce western funding for the war, which would obviously help Russia. Other than that, Putin will want to end this as soon as possible because he can't sustain the level of loss he's endured over the past year - both in terms of human life and national resources.Agreed, tough the poster I was alluding to said that the continuation of the conflict favoured Russia, which doesn't make sense for a country looking to wrap things up and legalize their thefts as soon as possible.
If Russia was interested in peace they wouldn't have invaded Ukraine in the first place. Basically they are lying, they don't want peace they want Ukraine to surrender 20% of their land.https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023...e-talks-if-kyiv-cedes-occupied-regions-a79877
According to this they are.
Saying that they'll end the war if Ukraine gives them everything they want isn't really pushing for peace talks.https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023...e-talks-if-kyiv-cedes-occupied-regions-a79877
According to this they are.
You mean the Ukrainians bombing Russian civilians, right?Bombing civilians can never be the answer, never. I can't beleive someone is actually suggesting that on here.
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Yes. Let's legalize theft, pillage and rape why don't we.https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023...e-talks-if-kyiv-cedes-occupied-regions-a79877
According to this they are.
I humbly suggest you count to ten and read the context of the discussion again.Yes. Let's legalize theft, pillage and rape why don't we.
Why do you link and pay credence to this garbage?
From the director of: " I am not racist but..."I assume you are referring to my post which started with "Whilst I would never advocate for the targeting and killing of civilians"
I was quite clear on avoiding civilian casualties. The spirit of the post - and that I maintain - is that if Ukraine/the West can find a way to 'make it real' for the everyday Russians, then it will be advantageous. Ukraine is constantly being bombarded, power outages, air raid sirens etc, whilst the average Russian doesnt seem to be affected much at all. Its been a year and Putin doesnt seem to care much about the sanctions, or companies pulling out - their economy may be very slowly collapsing, but very slowly isnt good enough when Ukraine is being bombed everyday.From the director of: " I am not racist but..."
Doesn't matter what sentence you use when you propose attaching urban areas
What I fear is that if it becomes "more real" for the Russian population, they'll rally behind Putin.I was quite clear on avoiding civilian casualties. The spirit of the post - and that I maintain - is that if Ukraine/the West can find a way to 'make it real' for the everyday Russians, then it will be advantageous. Ukraine is constantly being bombarded, power outages, air raid sirens etc, whilst the average Russian doesnt seem to be affected much at all. Its been a year and Putin doesnt seem to care much about the sanctions, or companies pulling out - their economy may be very slowly collapsing, but very slowly isnt good enough when Ukraine is being bombed everyday.
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Exactly. It should be Russian recruitment officers who are seen forcefully taking fathers away from their children, not Ukrainian missiles killing the children.What I fear is that if it becomes "more real" for the Russian population, they'll rally behind Putin.
In my opinion it's therefore in Ukraine's interest to not involve the Russian people. Don't give them reasons to blame you. Let them organically realize that they should be angry at Putin.
PR-wise it's also much better for Ukraine to maintain the fact that they're only trying to push Russia out of their country, not to escalate to the Russian homeland.
How you avoid civilian casualties attacking urban areas?I was quite clear on avoiding civilian casualties. The spirit of the post - and that I maintain - is that if Ukraine/the West can find a way to 'make it real' for the everyday Russians, then it will be advantageous. Ukraine is constantly being bombarded, power outages, air raid sirens etc, whilst the average Russian doesnt seem to be affected much at all. Its been a year and Putin doesnt seem to care much about the sanctions, or companies pulling out - their economy may be very slowly collapsing, but very slowly isnt good enough when Ukraine is being bombed everyday.
Wagner losing 80% of their 50k seems notable.
You don't, unless of course you're fighting an insurgency in a city, which isn't on the table given that we are talking about inside Russia.How you avoid civilian casualties attacking urban areas?
The making it real bit is already being accomplished in slow motion through sanctions and by Putin himself through his mass mobilization and the subsequent fleeing of Russians to avoid being sent into the meat grinder.I was quite clear on avoiding civilian casualties. The spirit of the post - and that I maintain - is that if Ukraine/the West can find a way to 'make it real' for the everyday Russians, then it will be advantageous. Ukraine is constantly being bombarded, power outages, air raid sirens etc, whilst the average Russian doesnt seem to be affected much at all. Its been a year and Putin doesnt seem to care much about the sanctions, or companies pulling out - their economy may be very slowly collapsing, but very slowly isnt good enough when Ukraine is being bombed everyday.
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And Russia has long prepared for a war on Ukraine, seeking to destroy everything Ukrainian.Tweet
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You mean like sanctions or rather something even more substantial such as being mobilized and dragged into a war they don't want to fight?I was quite clear on avoiding civilian casualties. The spirit of the post - and that I maintain - is that if Ukraine/the West can find a way to 'make it real' for the everyday Russians, then it will be advantageous. Ukraine is constantly being bombarded, power outages, air raid sirens etc, whilst the average Russian doesnt seem to be affected much at all. Its been a year and Putin doesnt seem to care much about the sanctions, or companies pulling out - their economy may be very slowly collapsing, but very slowly isnt good enough when Ukraine is being bombed everyday.
And follow it up with suggesing bombing urban areas as retribution. There is no bombing urban areas without civilian casualties, if you drop bombs into cities there will be civilian casualties.I assume you are referring to my post which started with "Whilst I would never advocate for the targeting and killing of civilians"
