Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

GlastonSpur

Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
17,716
Supports
Spurs
How does Grozev define "collapse"?

I'd be wary of NEXTA by the way, they've been unreliable. I've avoided them lately and try to get as many official/authoritative sources as possible.
I've deleted the post, as I've just seen the March 4th date on the tweet referenced. My mistake.
 

GlastonSpur

Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
17,716
Supports
Spurs
Are we maybe getting a bit too obsessed about fires in Russia? Not talking about those at oil depots close to the border, or ones at weapons design bureaus. But at a mall? Fires happen all the time.
Well, there was a story about a litter bin that caught fire in Yakutsk ... but I decided to ignore that one.
 

GlastonSpur

Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
17,716
Supports
Spurs
The SAS-trained saboteurs at work again, no doubt.

 

GlastonSpur

Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
17,716
Supports
Spurs
This is a very disturbing video, from someone who seems to be very knowledgeable.

It essentially says that Putin has no real plan but is simply acting in escalation mode (in gambling fashion, believing that things to his advantage will somehow simply fall into his lap from the chaos), that Putin sees this as primarily a war with the West (and only secondarily with Ukraine), that he is ready to use nuclear weapons, starting with a tactical nuke, and that the target will not be Ukraine but somewhere in a NATO country - probably a non-civilian, military target.

 
Last edited:

Sir Matt

Blue Devil
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
18,332
Location
LUHG

The risk of MAD has been hanging over the US/NATO and Russia for more than half a century. New ICBMs don't change that.

Russia sent another diplomatic note to the US demanding an end to weapons shipments, and Lavrov is talking more about WWIII. I interpret this as more signs that things aren't going well in Donbas and that the risk of things falling apart for Russia is going up.
 

Frosty

Logical and sensible but turns women gay
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
17,294
Location
Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango!

The risk of MAD has been hanging over the US/NATO and Russia for more than half a century. New ICBMs don't change that.

Russia sent another diplomatic note to the US demanding an end to weapons shipments, and Lavrov is talking more about WWIII. I interpret this as more signs that things aren't going well in Donbas and that the risk of things falling apart for Russia is going up.
Let's hope so. The US/UK/French approach of not mentioning nukes and ignoring Russian posturing must be winding the Kremlin up something fierce.
 

Sir Matt

Blue Devil
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
18,332
Location
LUHG
Let's hope so. The US/UK/French approach of not mentioning nukes and ignoring Russian posturing must be winding the Kremlin up something fierce.
If anything, Russian performance in the war thus far would suggest most of their missiles would fail if they ever launched them. Maybe not all of us would die then.
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,691
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee

The risk of MAD has been hanging over the US/NATO and Russia for more than half a century. New ICBMs don't change that.

Russia sent another diplomatic note to the US demanding an end to weapons shipments, and Lavrov is talking more about WWIII. I interpret this as more signs that things aren't going well in Donbas and that the risk of things falling apart for Russia is going up.
At best a new missile means that NATO isn't going to attack Russia. Something which they weren't going to do anyway. It doesn't provide any leverage or power.
 

4bars

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
5,044
Supports
Barcelona
I get it sounds contradictory, I apologize for it. The Steinmeier incident for me was just the tip of the iceberg of Ukrainian diplomatic failure in Germany, but 90% of that is Melnyk's fault. I didn't realize there wasn't a translation for the article that only talked about Melnyk, maybe that would have made things clear.

The point broken down is: Melnyk behaves like a fascist

He is representing Ukraine, so if you want to understand the situation like that you can claim this to be a war between two fascist states, we would have to fight both or neither based on that sentiment.

Zelensky made a dumb move by not wanting Steinmeier to visit, but I don't think he is anyway near as toxic as Melnyk to the Ukrainian cause, on the contrary. Without the scorched earth Melnyk created it could maybe even have been a powerful statement. The way it was, it just became part of Ukrainian diplomatic failure - which isn't Zelensky's fault, it was ill-advised but understandable I guess.
I guess we will agree to disagree. For me it was a diplomatic success putting germany in the crosshairs to pressure them to do tge right thing

And definitely an insult to germans as you said
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
15,626
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
I guess we will agree to disagree. For me it was a diplomatic success putting germany in the crosshairs to pressure them to do tge right thing

And definitely an insult to germans as you said
Scholz is/was already facing pressure from within his own government coalition even. Melnyk didn't create that, he's actually alleviating it, by steering things off-topic.
 

stefan92

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
6,657
Supports
Hannover 96
I guess we will agree to disagree. For me it was a diplomatic success putting germany in the crosshairs to pressure them to do tge right thing

And definitely an insult to germans as you said
It was a diplomatic failure as it actually fuels existing skepticism against Ukraine.

Nonetheless it looks like things are (still very slowly) moving in the right direction: https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deut...iefern-a-c53fa755-c0d1-4b59-b8a6-7d2dbaaebd74

Germany seems to prepare a delivery of Gepard air defence tanks (armament is a radar controlled twin 35mm autocannon). It should be quite effective against low flying targets, and it is an interesting choice as this is really one of the more complicated systems - so even if it should be delivered quite fast, it won't appear on the battlefield immediately.
 

ThierryFabregas

New Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
592
Supports
Arsenal
This is a very disturbing video, from someone who seems to be very knowledgeable.

It essentially says that Putin has no real plan but is simply acting in escalation mode (in gambling fashion, believing that things to his advantage will somehow simply fall into his lap from the chaos), that Putin sees this as primarily a war with the West (and only secondarily with Ukraine), that he is ready to use nuclear weapons, starting with a tactical nuke, and that the target will not be Ukraine but somewhere in a NATO country - probably a non-civilian, military target.

I don't think he does because I don't think there's a tangible benefit. If he drops a Nuke, what does he gain? Does he even stop the flow of weapons into Ukraine? Probably not, maybe only a Nuke on the border to stop supply lines would make any sense in terms of tangible benefit. But even then it seems like mass overkill.

Most of his moves gives him or Russia tangible benefits. Taking Crimea gives him access to the massive amount of gas and oil reserves in the black sea. Taking a land bridge and more costal sites makes it much easier for Russia to run Crimea while giving even greater access to the oil and gas reserves.

The same content maker claims Putin is obsessed with how quickly NATO could send a Nuke to Moscow. If he is that obssessed with it, it means he won't want to risk it. His attitude to covid shows he is paranoid about risks that could damage his health. Putin tends to calculate what he can get away with to a large extent.

Thank You for the shedloads of content you post on here btw. Do you have a background or career that helps you come across all this content or is it just an interest?
 

africanspur

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
9,164
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
UK refugee scheme designed to fail

Is anyone even slightly surprised by this? I have to say, withholding the visa of one child in the family is a level of nefariousness I didn't expect them to stoop to but it's genius.

Not even sure it plays that well with their base in this instance though.
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
120,289
Location
Dublin, Ireland
UK refugee scheme designed to fail

Is anyone even slightly surprised by this? I have to say, withholding the visa of one child in the family is a level of nefariousness I didn't expect them to stoop to but it's genius.

Not even sure it plays that well with their base in this instance though.
The U.K. system is word play to say we did our part. But as far as I understand from people who have tried to go through it, it’s designed to put you off
 

TMDaines

Fun sponge.
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
14,013
The U.K. system is word play to say we did our part. But as far as I understand from people who have tried to go through it, it’s designed to put you off
All our visa policies are essentially. For example, the financial requirement for a foreign spouse to join their UK national partner is explicitly designed to keep families apart and reduce net migration.
 

RoyH1

Full Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
6,059
Location
DKNY

The risk of MAD has been hanging over the US/NATO and Russia for more than half a century. New ICBMs don't change that.

Russia sent another diplomatic note to the US demanding an end to weapons shipments, and Lavrov is talking more about WWIII. I interpret this as more signs that things aren't going well in Donbas and that the risk of things falling apart for Russia is going up.
Russia is starting to look and sound more and more like North Korea. "Look at me!! I have bombs!! I will hurt you if you don't do what I say!!"
 

TMDaines

Fun sponge.
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
14,013
Can't decide whether it is all going to kick off around Transnistria, and whether these are all Russian/Transnistrian false flag events or someone else is behind them. A desperate move from Russia to try and sandwich Odesa? You'd think it would play into Ukrainian and Moldovan hands medium term.
 

dal

New Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Messages
2,207
It’s inevitable that Russia will launch a tactical nuke. It’s the only way they think they can gain credence.
 

Denis79

Full Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Messages
7,781
Russia is starting to look and sound more and more like North Korea. "Look at me!! I have bombs!! I will hurt you if you don't do what I say!!"
They are exactly like North Korea as long as Putin is in power.
 

ShoePolish

Full Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
1,130
Can't decide whether it is all going to kick off around Transnistria, and whether these are all Russian/Transnistrian false flag events or someone else is behind them. A desperate move from Russia to try and sandwich Odesa? You'd think it would play into Ukrainian and Moldovan hands medium term.
They've got everything available thrown in Ukraine, they're not really in a position to open another front in Moldova right now, let alone speak about WW3.
 

spiriticon

Full Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,506
Transnistrian soldiers will be annihilated if they cross the border. There's only 1500 of them and they are apparently very poorly trained.

Moldova should also be prepared to move in once they vacate.
 

The Firestarter

Full Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
28,309
It’s inevitable that Russia will launch a tactical nuke. It’s the only way they think they can gain credence.
I can't see what they will be able to achieve with a single tactical - the Ukrainians are not amassing armour or manpower in one spot . They are doing much more decentralised operations. So it's either a barrage of nukes on the front , a land that they will have to move through and occupy later. Or its a nuke over a city which is genocide effectively. At that point nato is in. Or if not the whole nato, some members definitely are.
 

GlastonSpur

Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
17,716
Supports
Spurs
I don't think he does because I don't think there's a tangible benefit. If he drops a Nuke, what does he gain? Does he even stop the flow of weapons into Ukraine? Probably not, maybe only a Nuke on the border to stop supply lines would make any sense in terms of tangible benefit. But even then it seems like mass overkill.

Most of his moves gives him or Russia tangible benefits. Taking Crimea gives him access to the massive amount of gas and oil reserves in the black sea. Taking a land bridge and more costal sites makes it much easier for Russia to run Crimea while giving even greater access to the oil and gas reserves.

The same content maker claims Putin is obsessed with how quickly NATO could send a Nuke to Moscow. If he is that obssessed with it, it means he won't want to risk it. His attitude to covid shows he is paranoid about risks that could damage his health. Putin tends to calculate what he can get away with to a large extent.

Thank You for the shedloads of content you post on here btw. Do you have a background or career that helps you come across all this content or is it just an interest?
I just very much want to see Ukraine survive and see it as vital for freedom and democracy going forward. Most of the content comes from a few Twitter feeds and a few YouTube channels. However, it's been hugely distracting me from getting on with a big work-related project, so I need to start disciplining myself to switch back to that.

I hope you're right about the nukes. However, the video-maker we're discussing sees Putin as a gambler who is stuck in escalation mode and obsessed with a sense of historic mission concerning "Greater Russia". The gambler aspect could mean that Putin doesn't think the West will risk responding with their own nuke if he uses a tactical nuke in, say, Estonia, or at least is willing to gamble that they won't.
 

Don't Kill Bill

Full Member
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
5,676
This is a very disturbing video, from someone who seems to be very knowledgeable.

It essentially says that Putin has no real plan but is simply acting in escalation mode (in gambling fashion, believing that things to his advantage will somehow simply fall into his lap from the chaos), that Putin sees this as primarily a war with the West (and only secondarily with Ukraine), that he is ready to use nuclear weapons, starting with a tactical nuke, and that the target will not be Ukraine but somewhere in a NATO country - probably a non-civilian, military target.

If Putin is really thinking about setting off a nuke to see if things fall more favorably for him afterwards then there isn't much we can do about that.

It would be a huge mistake, worse than the decision to invade in the first place.
 

dal

New Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Messages
2,207
I can't see what they will be able to achieve with a single tactical - the Ukrainians are not amassing armour or manpower in one spot . They are doing much more decentralised operations. So it's either a barrage of nukes on the front , a land that they will have to move through and occupy later. Or its a nuke over a city which is genocide effectively. At that point nato is in. Or if not the whole nato, some members definitely are.
It’s for supremacy in the minds rather than battlefield. Genacide is occurring already they don’t really care do they.

NATO will never go into Ukraine if Russia nuke a Ukrainian city. Weapons delivery may intensify though.
 

RoyH1

Full Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
6,059
Location
DKNY
If Putin is really thinking about setting off a nuke to see if things fall more favorably for him afterwards then there isn't much we can do about that.

It would be a huge mistake, worse than the decision to invade in the first place.
Agree. If does that then even the countries that have not condemned Russia would take a step further away from him. Cannot see Beijing not coming out against nukes being used, however limited the payload is.
 

nickm

Full Member
Joined
May 20, 2001
Messages
9,182
It’s inevitable that Russia will launch a tactical nuke. It’s the only way they think they can gain credence.
What does gaining credence get them though? If he uses nukes, what incentive will NATO / the west have to not go all in? What's keeping us out is the risk of nuclear escalation.