Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Krakenzero

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Not aimed at you by any means - I have heard plenty of politicians and protestors in the West state the reason Putin invaded was because of NATO expansion, and here he is proving them wrong!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al...-declaring-war-on-ukraine-translated-excerpts

"I am referring to the expansion of the NATO to the east, moving its military infrastructure closer to Russian borders. It is well known that for 30 years we have persistently and patiently tried to reach an agreement with the leading NATO countries on the principles of equal and inviolable security in Europe. In response to our proposals, we constantly faced either cynical deception and lies, or attempts to pressure and blackmail, while NATO, despite all our protests and concerns, continued to steadily expand. The war machine is moving and, I repeat, it is coming close to our borders"

This is from the day of the declaration of war. Sorry, special operation.

Putin lies.
 

Krakenzero

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This is one step closer to the truth. Although the bit Putin will never admit is that a strong and democratic Ukraine that embraces the rule of law and pluralistic values is an existential threat to the corrupt, authoritarian police state he is running out of Moscow, which is why he has to stop the spread of democracy into the Russian sphere at all costs.
Esentially this. NATO is not expanding. Russia is. Countries have self determination and can decide (an actually have to apply) in the former. Not in the latter.
 

Simbo

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Apparently solid-state fuel reacts quite badly to bullets.
 

neverdie

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This could also explain why Western sanctions have not 'bitten' as heavily as expected.
eu countries are also buying directly from india. india buys from russia, india refines in india. india then sells to eu. eu then pays highest possible price which it is partly responsible for because of sanctions. genius right?

political class owned by with shares in energy companies laughing all the way to the bank.
 

worldgonemad

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Thanks for posting this Raoul.
A fantastic, moving, watch. It's easy to become complacent after time, but clips like this put things into perspective.
The war for those people is real, and unrelenting. Death can come at any moment, and fear and suffering really is 24 hrs a day.
Those brave people have balls of steel and hearts of lions
 

Real Name

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Awful watch. Having lived through the war as a kid and I didnt see that much of it, especially compared to many others who either needed to flee, lost everything or family members, friends, I can imagine how they feel. My grandparents needed to flee their hometown and it took a toll on my grandad who got ill and was never the same. I remember news about the war, people saying on radio who are they looking for or asking someone to let know if he/she is all right, news about which town or village fell, rushing to the shelter.. And as I said that's nothing compared to others but nevertheless I have a terrible feeling watching videos like this and I remember having an awful feeling in the stomach on the morning of 24th of February when news broke out Russia is attacking Ukraine..
 

Gehrman

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I still don't know who's going to bankroll Ukraine in the long run. They were the 2nd poorest country in Europe pre the 2022 invasion. As long as Russia themselves won't suffer real attacks on their soil they can bankroll the war with oil and gas revenue.
 

groovyalbert

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I still don't know who's going to bankroll Ukraine in the long run. They were the 2nd poorest country in Europe pre the 2022 invasion. As long as Russia themselves won't suffer real attacks on their soil they can bankroll the war with oil and gas revenue.
I agree. Once winter hits, and energy prices rocket further in Europe and the West, I think there will be more and more calls for compromise/negotiating.
 

Gehrman

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I agree. Once winter hits, and energy prices rocket further in Europe and the West, I think there will be more and more calls for compromise/negotiating.
Yeah and in the post covid era where most just want the economy to go back to normal and then you have the America first mantra with the American Repubs. I just can't see where the money will come from in a prolonged war of attrition.
 

ThierryFabregas

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Yeah and in the post covid era where most just want the economy to go back to normal and then you have the America first mantra with the American Repubs. I just can't see where the money will come from in a prolonged war of attrition.
The American military complex will fund it if all else fails and Dems and Repubs continually vote to give it greater funding because arms companies donate funds to their campaigns. This is an existential war against Western democracy and peace across European as a whole. It's a war Russia must outright lose.
 

Beans

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I agree. Once winter hits, and energy prices rocket further in Europe and the West, I think there will be more and more calls for compromise/negotiating.
Russia aren’t going to accept anything less than control of Ukraine, and if Peter Zeihan is right, and many government officials have commented on it in Russia, that they want to take the Baltic states and they want half of Poland. This is so they can have defensible borders holding the Polish gap and the Bessarabian gap in Moldova, which they will also take. It’s not a coincidence Russia has basically captured eastern Moldova already, they’re headed that way.

His theory is that the west feels they must stop Russia in Ukraine or confrontation with NATO is next, where Russia will have the option of using nukes or losing.

If Russia takes Ukraine, partisans will likely destroy the Ukraine pipeline as well.
 

Simbo

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The American military complex will fund it if all else fails and Dems and Repubs continually vote to give it greater funding because arms companies donate funds to their campaigns. This is an existential war against Western democracy and peace across European as a whole. It's a war Russia must outright lose.
Yes, even the biggest cynics on western goodwill should understand the greed of some parties has the power to keep the gravy flowing.

Regardless, Ukraine is never giving up, no matter what help they do or do get from elsewhere. Neither are other eastern European countries. Some people just don't realise what is at stake.
 

groovyalbert

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Russia aren’t going to accept anything less than control of Ukraine, and if Peter Zeihan is right, and many government officials have commented on it in Russia, that they want to take the Baltic states and they want half of Poland. This is so they can have defensible borders holding the Polish gap and the Bessarabian gap in Moldova, which they will also take. It’s not a coincidence Russia has basically captured eastern Moldova already, they’re headed that way.

His theory is that the west feels they must stop Russia in Ukraine or confrontation with NATO is next, where Russia will have the option of using nukes or losing.

If Russia takes Ukraine, partisans will likely destroy the Ukraine pipeline as well.
I agree with all the above, but I genuinely think the unity the West has had up until this point will be seriously tested in the winter. Everyone will be wanting to keep their houses in order as a matter of priority.

Just look at what's happening in the UK right now. If there was an election tomorrow, I'm not sure Ukraine would be the most pressing issue for voters.

Economy, Energy and Immigration would probably all poll higher, unfortunately.
 

Gehrman

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Russia aren’t going to accept anything less than control of Ukraine, and if Peter Zeihan is right, and many government officials have commented on it in Russia, that they want to take the Baltic states and they want half of Poland. This is so they can have defensible borders holding the Polish gap and the Bessarabian gap in Moldova, which they will also take. It’s not a coincidence Russia has basically captured eastern Moldova already, they’re headed that way.

His theory is that the west feels they must stop Russia in Ukraine or confrontation with NATO is next, where Russia will have the option of using nukes or losing.

If Russia takes Ukraine, partisans will likely destroy the Ukraine pipeline as well.
Russia isn't going to invade Poland or any Nato country. They know they will be destroyed and humiliated. Its non nato countries who have a good cause for worry.
 

Raoul

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Awful watch. Having lived through the war as a kid and I didnt see that much of it, especially compared to many others who either needed to flee, lost everything or family members, friends, I can imagine how they feel. My grandparents needed to flee their hometown and it took a toll on my grandad who got ill and was never the same. I remember news about the war, people saying on radio who are they looking for or asking someone to let know if he/she is all right, news about which town or village fell, rushing to the shelter.. And as I said that's nothing compared to others but nevertheless I have a terrible feeling watching videos like this and I remember having an awful feeling in the stomach on the morning of 24th of February when news broke out Russia is attacking Ukraine..
Thanks for posting this Raoul.
A fantastic, moving, watch. It's easy to become complacent after time, but clips like this put things into perspective.
The war for those people is real, and unrelenting. Death can come at any moment, and fear and suffering really is 24 hrs a day.
Those brave people have balls of steel and hearts of lions
The bit where the soldier opened up a Russian MRE for the dog to eat was a bit poetic, given how Putin has treated his own soldiers like cannon fodder.
 

massi83

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Russia aren’t going to accept anything less than control of Ukraine, and if Peter Zeihan is right, and many government officials have commented on it in Russia, that they want to take the Baltic states and they want half of Poland. This is so they can have defensible borders holding the Polish gap and the Bessarabian gap in Moldova, which they will also take. It’s not a coincidence Russia has basically captured eastern Moldova already, they’re headed that way.

His theory is that the west feels they must stop Russia in Ukraine or confrontation with NATO is next, where Russia will have the option of using nukes or losing.

If Russia takes Ukraine, partisans will likely destroy the Ukraine pipeline as well.
Sounds like you would be better served, if you just stopped reading this random Peter Zeihan guy.
 

Maagge

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The American military complex will fund it if all else fails and Dems and Repubs continually vote to give it greater funding because arms companies donate funds to their campaigns. This is an existential war against Western democracy and peace across European as a whole. It's a war Russia must outright lose.
I guess it's a good thing they're not selling their military hardware to their police departments.
 

Beans

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I agree with all the above, but I genuinely think the unity the West has had up until this point will be seriously tested in the winter. Everyone will be wanting to keep their houses in order as a matter of priority.

Just look at what's happening in the UK right now. If there was an election tomorrow, I'm not sure Ukraine would be the most pressing issue for voters.

Economy, Energy and Immigration would probably all poll higher, unfortunately.
I agree, Zeihan has also suggested that Russia might blackmail Germany and/or Turkey, saying that they will only supply oil and gas if they withdraw from NATO and stop all military aid to Ukraine. I'm a little surprised if hasn't happened yet, just because it sounds like it would be devistatingly effective, much more so than the idea of using tactical nukes in a way with NATO, who can respond in kind, and the introduction of which might wildly effect world opinion.

But seeing as Putin holds more than half the world hostage with his oil, gas, wheat, fertilizer and potash supplies, can anyone but the few (mostly) self sufficient countries afford to oppose him? Russia can live off potatoes and their own energy supplies for a long time.
 

Gehrman

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The American military complex will fund it if all else fails and Dems and Repubs continually vote to give it greater funding because arms companies donate funds to their campaigns. This is an existential war against Western democracy and peace across European as a whole. It's a war Russia must outright lose.
Since Russia violated the nuclear disarment treaty they signed with Ukraine, we ought to give Ukraine some nukes. For real.
 

Beans

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Russia isn't going to invade Poland or any Nato country. They know they will be destroyed and humiliated. Its non nato countries who have a good cause for worry.
It sounds crazy to me too, I'll admit, and these plans were made before the Russian armed forced showed themselves to be so wildly incompetent in comparison to NATO. The thinking was that if Russia invaded like they're doing in Ukraine, they'd be pushed back and that would be the end of it.

But now Russia know they would lose a conventional war, and while this is good news in general, Russia are desperate. They see their post-Soviet borders and indefensible, and feel they must hold most of the territory they had as the USSR to narrow the points of entry, so they would actually have enough soldiers to successfully defend itself. They've gone from holding 1 of 9 entry points after the collapse to 5 iirc as of now.

He thinks this is why they're talking about nukes, because they would need to use tactical nukes to have any hope of beating NATO forces, or more likely terrorizing people into submission (which I don't think it's likely either).

From a demographic standpoint, Russia's population is collapsing even faster than Europe, their pool of 18-40 year olds in ideal draft age will be half what it is now in 20 years, leaving them with a force incapable of holding the vast planes of western Russia. And even if they believed no one in Europe would invade them currently, they're worried about what might happen in 100 years.

Nevermind that Europe will have a population collapse as well, and none of their borders are defensible either, of course.

Again, this is all from Zeihan.