Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Gehrman

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This is the sort of creative thinking that NATO is missing :lol:.
Well I mean Russia promised to defend them in return. Now they are doing opposite while dick swinging their nukes. Give Ukraine a few nukes in compensation and then see if Russia's citizens feel safe in support of the war.
 

Beans

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Since Russia violated the nuclear disarment treaty they signed with Ukraine, we ought to give Ukraine some nukes. For real.
Talk about a system that would be hard to install and train Ukranians to maintain and utilize! We're not sending them anything fancier than a stinger or artillery piece because of this same issue (okay some of the fancier stuff is finally getting to the front after months of training #gohimars).
 

Gehrman

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It sounds crazy to me too, I'll admit, and these plans were made before the Russian armed forced showed themselves to be so wildly incompetent in comparison to NATO. The thinking was that if Russia invaded like they're doing in Ukraine, they'd be pushed back and that would be the end of it.

But now Russia know they would lose a conventional war, and while this is good news in general, Russia are desperate. They see their post-Soviet borders and indefensible, and feel they must hold most of the territory they had as the USSR to narrow the points of entry, so they would actually have enough soldiers to successfully defend itself. They've gone from holding 1 of 9 entry points after the collapse to 5 iirc as of now.

He thinks this is why they're talking about nukes, because they would need to use tactical nukes to have any hope of beating NATO forces, or more likely terrorizing people into submission (which I don't think it's likely either).

From a demographic standpoint, Russia's population is collapsing even faster than Europe, their pool of 18-40 year olds in ideal draft age will be half what it is now in 20 years, leaving them with a force incapable of holding the vast planes of western Russia. And even if they believed no one in Europe would invade them currently, they're worried about what might happen in 100 years.

Nevermind that Europe will have a population collapse as well, and none of their borders are defensible either, of course.

Again, this is all from Zeihan.
I don't know this Zeihan guy, but he doesn't sound impressive. Putin and his cronies love talking shit but they know their limits.
 

Beans

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Sounds like you would be better served, if you just stopped reading this random Peter Zeihan guy.
He's the guy who predicted the invasion when few did, book was up to #3 on the NYT nonfiction best seller list last month, read by many influential people, DC think tank member who is in high demand, I've found his presentations on YouTube to be extremely impressive, gets to elemental issues and clearly demonstrates details.

Hard to find anyone as knowledgeable that gives such a complete picture with which to contrast his perspective. But I'll take any recommendations, already checked out Mearsheimer though.
 

Beans

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I don't know this Zeihan guy, but he doesn't sound impressive. Putin and his cronies love talking shit but they know their limits.
I don't want to overstate things, he's only said that the situation is scarier in some ways because Russia would have to retreat in confrontation with NATO, and so it brings nukes to the table as the only option, which is a dangerous place to be.

With things going so badly, it surely is causing a rethink, and so new predictions may be too be made when and if Russia move in another direction.

But as I said above, his info is great, and very complete. Here's a presentation he made recently to some US military officers, check it out if you have time, we'll worth it.
 

VorZakone

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I still don't know who's going to bankroll Ukraine in the long run. They were the 2nd poorest country in Europe pre the 2022 invasion. As long as Russia themselves won't suffer real attacks on their soil they can bankroll the war with oil and gas revenue.
I reckon the West won't wanna give China the impression that they can "get away" with a Taiwan invasion. And therefore, the West might be very willing to make sure Russia suffers a defeat.
 

massi83

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He's the guy who predicted the invasion when few did, book was up to #3 on the NYT nonfiction best seller list last month, read by many influential people, DC think tank member who is in high demand, I've found his presentations on YouTube to be extremely impressive, gets to elemental issues and clearly demonstrates details.

Hard to find anyone as knowledgeable that gives such a complete picture with which to contrast his perspective. But I'll take any recommendations, already checked out Mearsheimer though.
The fact that you refer to him as "your guru" should be alarming enough for yourself. And that you think he is the go-to-guy in covid and Russia should be another alarm bell. Again he is a total random and plenty of what you posted by him is flat out crazy.

I highly doubt he offers literally anything to anyone else in this thread, whatever anyone's bias is.
 

ShoePolish

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The only viable option of attacking Baltic states I've seen so far, was stating that Russia would have to make same sort of light version of blitzkrieg they made on Kyiv, as defenses would be alot easier to overcome, aim to quickly take all government buildings, installing puppet regime and have them refuse NATO military aid citing russian liberation from some sort of evil repressions.
They'll have to come up with something different now, if NATO will go through with strengthening eastern flank. NATO also has to be more proactive.
But I think Russia is overestimated as much as it is underestimated. They're down to a single localized push in Ukraine and should be running low on modern tech weapons.
Edit: Also, regarding Poland, I don't think there's even a discussion there, poles are more than capable of putting up enough resistance for whole of NATO to have a breakfast, take a dump, then arrive and wipe the floor with russians.
 

Simbo

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Whist the "Russia would never invade a NATO country" is very true, at least any time soon, you have to think how Russia operates. They don't just straight up invade anyone, it is proceeded with campaigns of information warfare and corruption, their specialty and main strength. In Russia everything and everyone is for sale, they treat the rest of the world the same way.

Bellingcat reported that billions had been funnelled to various key Ukrainians to hamper defenses and stage a coup on day 1, they took it and handed it straight to the SBU, for the most part. However, the Kherson oblast governer just ran away and the commanders seemingly opened the gates (bridges) without mounting a defense. The former mayor of Kherson has been charged with high-treason.

Ukraine was very fortunate Russia only managed to buy the one city, this time.

The Baltic states have already proven quite resiliant, they've been under these kind of attacks since independance, but they can never let their guard down. They don't know what the state of the world and NATO politics will be like in a decade or so, as new world leaders and crisis emerge.
 

Beans

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The fact that you refer to him as "your guru" should be alarming enough for yourself. And that you think he is the go-to-guy in covid and Russia should be another alarm bell. Again he is a total random and plenty of what you posted by him is flat out crazy.

I highly doubt he offers literally anything to anyone else in this thread, whatever anyone's bias is.
If I referred to him as my guru I was being cute, I've just been reading him recently, and been very impressed, as I've said. You seem strangely hostile about his ideas, i can't say I understand why, I'll be happy to discuss them if you'll stop being rude.

(Edit: I don't recall saying he was my go to guy for covid either, you'll have to refresh my memory if I mentioned covid at all.)
 

Raoul

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Whist the "Russia would never invade a NATO country" is very true, at least any time soon, you have to think how Russia operates. They don't just straight up invade anyone, it is proceeded with campaigns of information warfare and corruption, their specialty and main strength. In Russia everything and everyone is for sale, they treat the rest of the world the same way.

Bellingcat reported that billions had been funnelled to various key Ukrainians to hamper defenses and stage a coup on day 1, they took it and handed it straight to the SBU, for the most part. However, the Kherson oblast governer just ran away and the commanders seemingly opened the gates (bridges) without mounting a defense. The former mayor of Kherson has been charged with high-treason.

Ukraine was very fortunate Russia only managed to buy the one city, this time.

The Baltic states have already proven quite resiliant, they've been under these kind of attacks since independance, but they can never let their guard down. They don't know what the state of the world and NATO politics will be like in a decade or so, as new world leaders and crisis emerge.
Yes indeed. The Russians have learned that the cost of destabilizing a country in slow motion and with little to no attribution, is far less costly than invading it. Putin's manipulation of foreign elections in over 25 countries is evidence of this.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...documented-27-countries-since-2004/619056001/

 
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tomaldinho1

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I reckon the West won't wanna give China the impression that they can "get away" with a Taiwan invasion. And therefore, the West might be very willing to make sure Russia suffers a defeat.
Considering the UK&US made a joint statement basically saying China was the biggest threat in the world that's a safe bet.
 

ThierryFabregas

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...in-ukraine-dares-west-to-fight-on-battlefield

Putin claims Russia has barely started campaign in Ukraine, dares west to fight on battlefield

‘Everyone should know that, by and large, we haven’t started anything yet in earnest,’ Russian president tells Kremlin parliamentary leaders
You're taken his gaslighting out of context. It sounds like he wants to sue for peace while keeping captured territories and is blaming the west for Ukrainian loss of life if he doesn't get what he wants.
 

Simbo

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A big one. It appears these relentless targeting of ammo dumps are taking their toll.

 

sun_tzu

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Yes indeed. The Russians have learned that the cost of destabilizing a country in slow motion and with little to no attribution, is far less costly than invading it. Putin's manipulation of foreign elections in over 25 countries is evidence of this.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...documented-27-countries-since-2004/619056001/

Given how many of those countries seem to be actively sending weapons / support to Ukraine you could argue he's not done a very good job of it
 

Simbo

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Ukraine added 35 tanks to its kill tally in its last update. Apparently that depot hit above was tank storage.

 

Simbo

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If this is correct it indicates that Russia are practically out of ground attack precision weapons.
Something appears to be seriously wrong with the ones they do have left.

 

Simbo

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I hope that is correct, but I am wary of predicting this again, after so many false dawns.
I remember what happened the last time Russia had a "pause" after their logistics network was torn to shreds. But yes be wary :lol:

Still, I'm hoping I'll wake up one day soon to see a hole in the Kerch bridge and Kherson fully under seige.
 

the hea

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US just announced that they will send 4 more Himars, with 8 already there and the 9 M270 promised by UK, Germany and Norway the long range precision capabilities of Ukraine will become pretty substansial soon.
 

Frosty

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US just announced that they will send 4 more Himars, with 8 already there and the 9 M270 promised by UK, Germany and Norway the long range precision capabilities of Ukraine will become pretty substansial soon.
Honestly the Republican Party's love affair with Russia makes me want Biden to send as much as humanly possible before November. Make it 80 HIMARS!
 

RedDevilQuebecois

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Whoever commands as the real military authority over that army will definitely go down in the annals of history and on the list of most incompetent generals ever alongside the likes of Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf, Luigi Cadorna and William Westmoreland.
 

do.ob

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"Fired" is a strong word, since he's reportedly getting a new job as deputy foreign minister. A Russian asset couldn't have done a much worse job than him.
 
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