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Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
This is very terrifying. It seems that we are approaching the end.
It is an interesting thought experiment, I'm just going by how NATO has responded thus far. But you could be right, in case of a nuclear bomb I do expect NATO to get into Ukraine but still maybe not crossing the border into Russia and trying to opt for a more conventional approach with North-Korea type of sanctions (bare minimum really). But that's all guess work to be honest.
I do feel it is a fear that has been living much more in West-Europe/US than in East-Europe. And as a result you see a lot of appeasement, which simply never has worked.
Russia only understands one thing: power. They do what they can away with until they get punched on the nose. Showing weakness allows them to continue their atrocities. They aren't interested in an actual dialogue, they don't have any fears about NATO attacking them, they won't be satisfied 'if we just give in and let them have part of Ukraine'. All a bunch of lies and the tankies/useful idiots are part of that strategy. They made it very clear this is about restoring what they deem is Russian land and will slaughter and repress anyone needed.
We are at war, it is just Ukraine paying with blood and the rest with money.
If the board is electronic, it may be a good project for the Ukrainians (or others) to hack.
The West is providing weapons? You want more to be done. It’s like a game of chess. Let’s see if Russia do escalate things because current it is losing the war.
Or the beginning, pretty scary stuff
I agree with you.
Actually, if NATO used its Air Force in March, when the Russian encirclement of Kiev had already failed, I think it would be a great way out for Putin too. He would claim that he cannot wage war against all of NATO. On the other hand, it was impossible for him to accept that he lost to Ukraine alone. That's why his propagandists are always saying that the war is against NATO.
The West was too timid, and many people died and will continue to die because of this. A show of force in the first few weeks would end things right there. Unfortunately, Scholz, Macron, Biden, etc are weak leaders. And there is no consensus in the West. Ukrainians pay for this with their blood.
Indeed.
No doubt - it's a ploy the West have used in this conflict as well: keep supplying ever more useful weapons to Ukraine over and extended period and they're well past the red lines Russia set at the outset.
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After hearing comments from the head of NATO tonight I’m convinced of this now, that US made it clear to the partners that it will take care of this by themselves not to drag Europe into the war.
Yeah footie tournament is to blame.
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Yes. If you arent willing to fight them then they have already won. What after Ukraine? The Baltics? Estonia? Poland? Or is it only when they arrive on your doorstep (not you personally, I dont know where you are from) that action needs to be taken?
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That’s not what I said, and you surely know it. I’m saying that it was batshit that four years after them invading and annexing parts of Ukraine, the entire West pretended it didn’t happen and we all went and played a major sporting event there, with all the kudos that brought.
In Britain I remember more oppositon to Euro 2012 in Ukraine when Sol Campbell went on the TV and told black people they would be killed if they went over there. I barely took my wife seriously at her thoughts that the Russian World Cup should be boycotted. No wonder Putin feels like he can invade, seize land and the world will very quickly forget.
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100%, and my home is in the city that’s like 30km from Belarus (defacto Russian) border but the line needs to be drawn now.
how does this end without a nuke being dropped now?
Conventional warfare will inevitably end with Russia’s defeat.
I don’t think putin will run away with his tail between his legs or admit any sort of defeat as that would spell the end of him and the power that he has.
I was born in 76 and remember being afraid of nuclear war as a child (especially with a father in the army) but I think we are closer to something cataclysmic now then at any time I remember before.
It may very well be necessary depending on what happens over the next few months and I’m fully behind not allowing putin to strong arm anyone into backing down but it feels like this war might come a lot closer to home than it has so far pretty quickly.
Conventional warfare will inevitably end with Russia’s defeat.
I don’t think putin will run away with his tail between his legs or admit any sort of defeat as that would spell the end of him and the power that he has.
I was born in 76 and remember being afraid of nuclear war as a child (especially with a father in the army) but I think we are closer to something cataclysmic now then at any time I remember before.
It may very well be necessary depending on what happens over the next few months and I’m fully behind not allowing putin to strong arm anyone into backing down but it feels like this war might come a lot closer to home than it has so far pretty quickly.
So did anyone jump to congratulate Putin & Russia with this amazing achievement? Apart from Lukashenko of course.
Liz Truss
In that audience I wonder how many sons were sent to die, while they had to cheer and smile
The West still has some escalation options before we get to firing bullets. if they declare Russia a terrorist state and “encourage” the Chinese to drop their support, there’s a decent chance that there would be regime chance in Russia. In any case, we can’t give a fascist dictator of a country with a second rate army and a third rate economy carte blanche to rewrite the map of Europe just because he has nukes and plays madman theory.
I agree 100% but doesn’t make it any less concerning.
It’s normal to be afraid but the fear shouldn’t rule us.
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Not sure I follow.
I am all for it, too. It is in time of need that we should join with our friends and protect them. Yes, there is an huge element of risk. There is also an element of risk if we don't do it. If Merkel and Sarkozy had accepted Ukraine in NATO in 2008, we'd have no war, no huge gas prices, no dead Russian soldiers, no dead Ukrainian soldiers and civilians. Being a coward is a risk, too.
So esentially, appeasement failed in February, and half measures to avoid escalation ended up failing in September. What's next?
My impression is that the most spectacular victories in war come from fully commiting, and the most sensational defeats come from half assing. What will be the choice?
My impression is that the most spectacular victories in war come from fully commiting, and the most sensational defeats come from half assing. What will be the choice?
Sorry meant to say it shouldn’t rule us.
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It's like going back in time the way they speak, "holy wars" for goodness sakes.
It’s a weird, maybe unique trait of Russian ultranationalism that they claim to be the future redeemer of a region (Europe) much more advanced than them. A coping mechanism whereby “our life is sh*t” transforms into an assumption of moral superiority through suffering.
UN is absolutely broken and pointless at this point, might as well disband it. How is Russia still having a veto right? A complete mockery.
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Is it? I think it's present in more or less all conservative schools of thought?
Maybe not through suffering though, that is a Russian thing.
I can’t think of many other countries that have a sense of destiny (at least among some “intellectuals”) of redeeming a more developed neighbouring area. It’s normally the other way round - some backward region offers an opportunity for exploitation in the name of bringing civilisation.
Some sort of next level shithousery that they can even do it.