Saka 19, Sancho 21, Rashford 23. . . Why were these England’s 3rd, 4th & 5th Penalty Taker?

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Don't think age is any excuse. They are pro-footballers. They can be expected to kick a ball from 12 yards.

You’re correct, age in itself isn’t the excuse.

Experience is.

As I said, Rashford at 3 is more than understandable. He say the keeper down & scores that penalty more often than not.

In the case of Saka though, he plays for a dogsh*te Arsenal team where his biggest pressures are Brighton away towards the end of the season to get a Europa League place [I know they win the FA Cup as an underdog in the Covid season]. In a squad laden with league winners, he shouldn’t be taking the 5th penalty.

If it were just kicking a ball from 10 yards, the Grealish & Sterling should have done so firstly.

Sancho has taken penalties for Dortmund relatively often, hasn't he? And Rashford has taken penalties fairly often for us, including high-pressure ones like in the PSG game. Nothing wrong with them being among the first five.

Sancho was cast to Siberia in that squad bar Ukraine where he was given a chance due to injury; it’s evident his place in this squad nowhere near reflects his place at Dortmund. He can barely get on the pitch for England yet is expected to take a vital penalty, no wonder the result differed from his club.

He was given 2 minutes on the pitch as was Rashford at right back ffs! Their clubs don’t generally bring them in cold & ask them to perform.

I have no problem with rashford and sancho taking pens.

I have an issue with specifically bringing them on in the 119th minute to take pens when they've barely played all tournament. That is just ramping up the pressure unnecessarily.

Exactly this.

Mbappe being asked to take a vital penalty for France, for example, isn’t quite like what was asked of Rashford & Sancho this evening.

 

[Dan_F]

I have no problem with rashford and sancho taking pens.

I have an issue with specifically bringing them on in the 119th minute to take pens when they've barely played all tournament. That is just ramping up the pressure unnecessarily.

I still fancied Rashford to score, but expecting Rashford and Sancho to score with their first kick of the ball after sitting on the bench for nearly three hours is so dumb. You only do that for specialist pen takers.

Saka taking a fifth kick is unforgivable, genuinely shocking. Pundits trying to legitimise it by saying Sterling/Henderson had missed a couple

 

[siw2007]

Rashford and Sancho were always going to struggle in the penalty shot out because they were subbed on too late, players need the right psych and confidence in their strike of the ball which they only get by playing a fair amount of minutes in the game which neither got by a long shot.

Saka has some balls as a young lad to step up to take the fifth, it’s a lot of pressure for a young boy, wouldn’t have been my choice.

 

[VorZakone]

Unbelievable decision really.

Sancho and Saka taking the last two is embarassing. Sterling in particular had to step up given the tournament he’s had

Kane should have done what Ronaldo did to Moutinho and make him take one. Also, the best taker in the team should always go fifth instead of first. Going first is the easy way out

Nah. Was it Spain vs Portugal in EURO 2012? Ronaldo was apparently the 5th taker but Portugal lost before they could even take the 5th.

 

[TheReligion]

Didn’t Henderson wrestle the ball off DCL in a friendly to take one?

Grealish [albeit only 25 himself] is the second coming of christ with an ego that makes Cantona look reserved according to the Caf.

Didn’t Shaw score in the Europa League Final?

How many trophies has Sterling won?

Maguire & Kane front running to take the 1st & 2nd speaks volumes.

This squad left 3 youngsters out to dry.

I can accept Rashford as he’s shown @ PSG he’s got the nerve; his penalty was poorly placed but Donnaruma had been sent to get chips; he scores that 9 out of 10.

How in the hell were Sancho & Saka down to take the 4th & 5th!?

Can't say I agree with that. You could argue Kane should be further back but can't see why your having a dig at Maguire who has clearly had the balls to step up as a centre half ahead of the likes of Sterling who was hiding.

With regards to the choice of takers I don't agree with subbing on a player specifically for a shootout unless they are some kind of specialist. Neither Sancho or Rashford are so if you want them to come on at least give them enough time to touch the ball and get a feel for things. That's where it went wrong. Also Saka shouldn't have been on one.. He was poor all game and looked very nervous.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Saka is the only one I don't get... And to be 5th as well? That's absurd... Hasn't Sterling taken City pens? Grealish surely is good at them.

Rashford and Sancho (if he takes them at Dortmund) were fine, just needed to be on 10 minutes earlier to actually be part of the game.

Sterling has always been pretty poor at penalties - and Grealish is so poor at penalties that he's actually never even attempted one above the PL development league. Watkins and El Ghazi are both ahead of him at Villa.

 

[::sonny::]

It’s unbelievable

 

[Dave Smith]

Anyone who did the basic research on the England squad and their individual penalty record would have seen that the cupboard was pretty bare, despite wins against Columbia and Switzerland in recent years.

• Kane and Rashford are the only recognised successful penalty takers.
• Other experienced non-defenders, such as Sterling and Henderson have been very indifferent in their career.
• I don’t think anyone else has even taken more than a couple.
• Sancho arguably had the third best record with 3/3 for Dortmund and 10-1 record including youth games.

The England management team had to trust the process and elect penalty takers based on historical record and training performance to fill in the blanks.

This is one of my main problems with someone like Grealish. He’s not a young player, now 25, a talisman for his midtable team, but he has no interest in taking responsibility for penalties and set pieces for club or country. He’d be indispensable for England if he took responsibility for practicing them and matured into a reliable set piece taker.

Well Tripper is a defnder you can rely on for peno kicks and Mount is also a Chelsea regular taker when they have to take kicks.

If the cupboard is so bare why is he taking those players off if he knows players like Sterling, Phillips and Grealish aren't taking them. It was a pretty big likelihood it was going to pens once they scored considering the teams.

Furthermore, Walker and Rice to me seem like two very confident lads, they may not be first five choices but they're two that you would probably had the ball to if it went past five.

I don't want to beat up on Southgate, because I was saying he wasn't great this entire tourney, but that is some real lack of joined up thinking.

 

[Peyroteo]

Nah. Was it Spain vs Portugal in EURO 2012? Ronaldo was apparently the 5th taker but Portugal lost before they could even take the 5th.

There's the risk of that happening but the best penalty taker should still go 5th. It increases the chances of success if they're unaffected by the pressure while a less-skilled penalty taker will feel the pressure. Kane should score the same amount of times if he goes first or last while for Saka he'd have higher chances of scoring if he goes first rather than last.

 

[podurban2]

I’m lost for words. What was the thinking behind it? Anyone could see from a mile away it was a bad decision.

 

[cyberman]

Saka has never taken a pen in senior football before, Sterling and Grealish should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

The issue is they have not been given any chance in the tournament and are already a little demoralised because of that. Then you don't even give them 10 min to get a look in or make a run or two to get their confidence up. It is just bizarre to me.

 

[Adam-Utd]

saka should have been 3rd, rashford 5th.

anyway, allowing the game to get to penalties was the biggest crime.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Sterling has always been pretty poor at penalties - and Grealish is so poor at penalties that he's actually never even attempted one above the PL development league. Watkins and El Ghazi are both ahead of him at Villa.

Sterling has a actually scored a professional penalty before... Which is more then can be said for Saka

 

[Born2Lose]

To give the 5th to Saka is diabolical, Sancho was wrong

Rashford has 46 England caps, how many has he got to reach before he's "grown up" enough to take a penalty?

 

[Cheech Wizard]

Totally fecked the order of them pens if that was Southgate’s call.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Sterling has a actually scored a professional penalty before... Which is more then can be said for Saka

yep fair point - fully agreed that he should have shown some bottle and stepped up; absolutely a better option than Saka. The last few minutes were a bit of a blur to me - somehow I thought Sterling had been subbed (as he should have been 45 minutes earlier).

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Can't say I agree with that.

Nothing new there.

I could care less where Maguire plays. His penalty was amazing [read that again - AMAZING] so if a player regardless of position is banging them in like that in training I expect him to be taking penalties when the pressure is on as opposed to 21 & 19 year olds.

You talk as if defenders have never taken decent penalties before. . .

You don’t bring a lad off the bench for 2 minutes then put him 4th in a shootout when your captain & vice-captain are so capable. Both struck terrific penalties.

 

[duffer]

I'd deffo want Rashford to take one. The other two, not so much.

 

[TMDaines]

Well Tripper is a defnder you can rely on for peno kicks and Mount is also a Chelsea regular taker when they have to take kicks.

If the cupboard is so bare why is he taking those players off if he knows players like Sterling, Phillips and Grealish aren't taking them. It was a pretty big likelihood it was going to pens once they scored considering the teams.

Furthermore, Walker and Rice to me seem like two very confident lads, they may not be first five choices but they're two that you would probably had the ball to if it went past five.

I don't want to beat up on Southgate, because I was saying he wasn't great this entire tourney, but that is some real lack of joined up thinking.

Disagree. Just do some basic research. Trippier has taken two penalties in his career; he missed both. Mount has taken just one. This is one of the downsides of having such a young group of forwards and midfielders. Lots of exciting talent, but little experience and largely unproven in big games at club level. England could have had all 26 players of their squad on the field and it would have not made us stronger before the kicks were taken. It’s not as if we had loads of senior players with decent penalty records bottling it.

On the other hand, I was very confident about United taking Villarreal to penalties because of how many players with strong records we have. The only problem is that we had an absolute lemon in goal, rather than Pickford.

 

[dinostar77]

Allowing the game to get to pens against a keeper with a 68% penalty save rate is stupid. This england team got to the final despite having southgate in charge.

 

[duffer]

It's just a penalty, I'd fecking take one *

Ronaldo, Terry & Messi and many other, lesser greats have missed them.

*I did take three against Neville Southall at a charity event and didn't score any but the law of averages says I'm due one.

 

[kthanksbye]

England didn't have 5 decent pen takers. The manager didn't trust some, maybe some were not confident. Deserved to lose.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Disagree. Just do some basic research. Trippier has taken two penalties in his career; he missed both. Mount has taken just one. This is one of the downsides of having such a young group of forwards and midfielders. Lots of exciting talent, but little experience and largely unproven in big games at club level. England could have had all 26 players of their squad on the field and it would have not made us stronger before the kicks were taken. It’s not as if we had loads of senior players with decent penalty records bottling it.

On the other hand, I was very confident about United taking Villarreal to penalties because of how many players with strong records we have. The only problem is that we had an absolute lemon in goal, rather than Pickford.

I think you're not totally off-base with your broader point regarding lack of experience, but for me the better metric than penalties taken in standard games is shootout penalties - I'd argue there's definitely a difference there and having players like Mount and Trippier who have taken penalties in shootouts might have been more beneficial.

 

[Snuffkin]

to answer the original question: to pass the buck for the basic indecision and incompetence of the retarded manger.
Rashford and Sancho have learnt the hard way: utd>England

 

[Robertd0803]

The stupid thing is in the huddle you can see Southgate asking Grealish and Sterling to take one, so why not one of them in spot 2,3,4 or 5? My own biased defence of United players aside letting Saka take the 5th one was so beyond logical it makes no sense. Did no one else want to take one??

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Kane should have been taker 5 at the very least. Saka shouldn't have had a penalty. Least of all the last one.

 

[R'hllor]

Don't think age is any excuse. They are pro-footballers. They can be expected to kick a ball from 12 yards.

None of them failed at that.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Anyone who did the basic research on the England squad and their individual penalty record would have seen that the cupboard was pretty bare, despite wins against Columbia and Switzerland in recent years.

• Kane and Rashford are the only recognised successful penalty takers.
• Other experienced non-defenders, such as Sterling and Henderson have been very indifferent in their career.
• I don’t think anyone else has even taken more than a couple.
• Sancho arguably had the third best record with 3/3 for Dortmund and 10-1 record including youth games.

The England management team had to trust the process and elect penalty takers based on historical record and training performance to fill in the blanks.

This is one of my main problems with someone like Grealish. He’s not a young player, now 25, a talisman for his midtable team, but he has no interest in taking responsibility for penalties and set pieces for club or country. He’d be indispensable for England if he took responsibility for practicing them and matured into a reliable set piece taker.

Good post.

However. I believe Harry Kane and Maguire should have been the ones on pressure penalty duty. Not the younger lads. Even if they younger lads have a superior record in training.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Yes it’s Ronaldo & no doubt he’s playing to the cameras but at what point should a manager, manage the situation & instil confidence in his players.

Sterling was on for player of the tournament, g him up & have him take one early if needs must.

 

[Acheron]

Yeah, they are very young and it showed on those penalties but I would put the blame on Southgate, wtf was he thinking.

 

[cyberman]

It's just a penalty, I'd fecking take one *

Ronaldo, Terry & Messi and many other, lesser greats have missed them.

*I did take three against Neville Southall at a charity event and didn't score any but the law of averages says I'm due one.

We had a school wide pen competition when i was 11 and the final 5 played out in front of the entire school on sports day. Stupid rule was you couldn't hit it above keeper shoulder height. Smacked mine clean as a whistle but the keeper dived backwards and claimed it was over the shoulder when he was the one who went low.
I was robbed then but I would have buried one tonight.

 

[Waynne]

Don't think age is any excuse. They are pro-footballers. They can be expected to kick a ball from 12 yards.

Having not played a single minute of football all tournament, In a high pressure final and expected to score a spot kick to end a 55 year trophy drought.

Piece of cake.

Absolutely no pressure whatsoever.

 

[duffer]

Manager shouldn't even ask the players as far as I'm concerned. "You're taking a pen and if you miss it it's my fault".

 

[Raoul]

In Moscow it was Anderson 19, Nani 19 etc.

Ultimately, it wasn't the ages, it was the late subs that did them in.

 

[Bale Bale Bale]

Kane should have done what Ronaldo did to Moutinho and make him take one. Also, the best taker in the team should always go fifth instead of first. Going first is the easy way out

If Kane was on the 5th pen he likely wouldn't have even got to take it ... which would have been even more stupid than what transpired.

 

[Lay]

I’ll say it forever. Letting a 19 year old player take the 5th penalty is mindbliwingly stupid. Especially as he was so nervous the whole game I don’t think he did a single thing right.

How Southgate didn’t see that is ridiculous. Saka should have been taken off before penalties

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Good post.

However. I believe Harry Kane and Maguire should have been the ones on pressure penalty duty. Not the younger lads. Even if they younger lads have a superior record in training.

It's hard to say what are or aren't going to be the pressure ones though! Maguire's penalty was massively important at the time given Belotti's miss (and he absolutely fecking smashed it), but it can be hard to predict. Certainly I'd advocate for having someone more experienced on the 5th penalty at least, but probably you want your absolute best takers going earlier given the possibility that the 5th is immaterial (Ronaldo not getting to take a kick vs Spain comes to mind - think that was the semis of Euro 2012).

 

[NasirTimothy]

Didn’t Henderson wrestle the ball off DCL in a friendly to take one?

Grealish [albeit only 25 himself] is the second coming of christ with an ego that makes Cantona look reserved according to the Caf.

Didn’t Shaw score in the Europa League Final?

How many trophies has Sterling won?

Maguire & Kane front running to take the 1st & 2nd speaks volumes.

This squad left 3 youngsters out to dry.

I can accept Rashford as he’s shown @ PSG he’s got the nerve; his penalty was poorly placed but Donnaruma had been sent to get chips; he scores that 9 out of 10.

How in the hell were Sancho & Saka down to take the 4th & 5th!?

Southgate said the penalty order was his decision. If true, then he made totally the wrong call. No way should 19 year old Saka especially be taking a penalty. But at least he was playing. Bringing on Sancho and Rashford cold with a minute to go just to take pens was unforgivable.

 

[lex talionis]

Is it really true that Sterling and Grealish were too cowardly to take pk’s? Appalling, if true.