Santa Barbara shooting
- Thread starter Bross
- Start date
Got me a giggleOh jeez, you guys got him going again...
.Wonder if that care included drugs?
@Alex99
You are not going to be able to stop some sociopathic men from hating and murdering women by pushing some feminist agenda through popular culture.
The fundamental and natural relationship dynamics between men and women is always going to see plenty of men and women become disaffected and take serious resentments against the opposite sex.
When you have a sociopath with other personality disorders that further distort his perceptions of this disaffection, added to a desire for and capability to carry out extreme violence, you are going to see rare tragedies like this.
Was Rodgers a misogynist? Yes. Would less violence against women in the popular arts have stopped this tragedy? I believe not. Would better mental healthcare from childhood prevented this tragedy? Possibly.
It isn't an insult to people with Aspergers to suggest that the condition combined with Rodger's sociopathy played a massive part in this tragedy. It is just the way it is. Not everything can suit your fundamentalist liberal agenda.
You are not going to be able to stop some sociopathic men from hating and murdering women by pushing some feminist agenda through popular culture.
The fundamental and natural relationship dynamics between men and women is always going to see plenty of men and women become disaffected and take serious resentments against the opposite sex.
When you have a sociopath with other personality disorders that further distort his perceptions of this disaffection, added to a desire for and capability to carry out extreme violence, you are going to see rare tragedies like this.
Was Rodgers a misogynist? Yes. Would less violence against women in the popular arts have stopped this tragedy? I believe not. Would better mental healthcare from childhood prevented this tragedy? Possibly.
It isn't an insult to people with Aspergers to suggest that the condition combined with Rodger's sociopathy played a massive part in this tragedy. It is just the way it is. Not everything can suit your fundamentalist liberal agenda.
Hes no dzhokhar tsarnaev, thats for sure.
Well what about the kind of ingrained, entitled misogyny so many men are brought up on? Example:
"I bought you dinner...so you should give me sex."
"I bought you dinner...so you should give me sex."
Maybe he forms his views of the society seeing Pornhub
Look at those lips. I'd run a mile from him.
Haa, I don't know, but he was seeing psychiatrists throughout his life and at the time of incident, was seeing two of them per day. Must have given him access to some drugs
Given that by all accounts he was very mentally disturbed and was seeing at least one therapist I would imagine he was prescribed something if not many things
Mental illness and violence:
http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php
Asperger's and violence:
Misogyny and violence against women:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/connecticut-girl-killed-jilted-refused-prom-article-1.1768718
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-Bangalore-Turf-Club/articleshow/32394189.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...acks-girl-with-blade/articleshow/32513386.cms
http://www.annarbor.com/news/crime/...who-rejected-him-man-who-tried-to-defend-her/
http://www.live5news.com/story/23946981/cops-downtown-man-attacks-woman-after-dance-rejection
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/12/social-bar-beating-woman-_n_495144.html
Can we please stop pretending that misogyny had nothing to do with this?
http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php
Asperger's and violence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
Misogyny and violence against women:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/connecticut-girl-killed-jilted-refused-prom-article-1.1768718
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-Bangalore-Turf-Club/articleshow/32394189.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...acks-girl-with-blade/articleshow/32513386.cms
http://www.annarbor.com/news/crime/...who-rejected-him-man-who-tried-to-defend-her/
http://www.live5news.com/story/23946981/cops-downtown-man-attacks-woman-after-dance-rejection
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/12/social-bar-beating-woman-_n_495144.html
Can we please stop pretending that misogyny had nothing to do with this?
Unfortunately we've seen plenty of guys like this who take their frustrations with the world out on innocent people. I genuinely can't remember ever seeing someone so lacking in self awareness though, it really is remarkable.
The shallow view of the world based on looks and wealth, narcissistic self promotion, the bizzare hatred and objectification of women, obsession with status, manifestos through social media etc etc. If you have that particular liberal/feminist outlook then you can easily view this guy as a near perfect example of the corrosive influence of all the things you hate. If he was a character in a book or a film he'd be criticised for being a negative, crude and one dimensional symbol of modern masculinity. Even the way he speaks sounds badly scripted, like he thinks that's how people about to go on a killing spree are supposed to talk.
Thing is though, we're only getting a very shallow view of his character, mental issues and circumstances. It might be tempting for us to make arguments involving one or two specific factors (be it gun control, mental illness, misogyny or whatever else), and these arguments may indeed have merit in a broader societal sense, but we can't honestly say "Elliot Roger killed people because of X" as we really don't know.
The shallow view of the world based on looks and wealth, narcissistic self promotion, the bizzare hatred and objectification of women, obsession with status, manifestos through social media etc etc. If you have that particular liberal/feminist outlook then you can easily view this guy as a near perfect example of the corrosive influence of all the things you hate. If he was a character in a book or a film he'd be criticised for being a negative, crude and one dimensional symbol of modern masculinity. Even the way he speaks sounds badly scripted, like he thinks that's how people about to go on a killing spree are supposed to talk.
Thing is though, we're only getting a very shallow view of his character, mental issues and circumstances. It might be tempting for us to make arguments involving one or two specific factors (be it gun control, mental illness, misogyny or whatever else), and these arguments may indeed have merit in a broader societal sense, but we can't honestly say "Elliot Roger killed people because of X" as we really don't know.
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Indeed Alex. Too often people get a whiff of mental illness and just write a serious occurrence up to it. There is a degree of cogency in thought to differentiate these crimes. Adam Lanza for example. Compare how lucid he was (or was not, as the case was, the lad was an absolute nutter and by all accounts acted incredibly awkwardly throughout his life, far more than Elliott) to Rodgers' much more normal, if still sociopathic and angry behaviour.
There are big societal issues at play in this, a serious, serious problem and I know a lot of people just like this Rodgers lad online.
There are big societal issues at play in this, a serious, serious problem and I know a lot of people just like this Rodgers lad online.
You can't deny that Elliot Rodger was a deeply disturbed individual, but the things he said and his attitudes towards women would blend in without problem in many areas of the internet. He described himself as "the supreme gentlemen" yet women apparently were rejecting him. This is typical nice-guy rhetoric. He describes his clothes, his car, his social status, and his attractiveness in great detail, yet women are not attracted to him. He describes women not allowing him to have sex with him as a "crime" and an "injustice". Which is, again, typical of many areas of thought amongst young males. He has obviously responded to all of this in the most extreme way possible, but it is not uncommon for men to react aggressively when rejected, and you can observe as much by going to practically any nightclub in the world.
Meanwhile, the trailer for Wolf of Wall Street is 'telling' young men that they can f*ck people over, be a criminal, be as arrogant as God himself & these things plus a smidgen of actual ability will win you beautiful women, riches and Ferraris. Sigh.
ffs, if only i had a smidgen of actual ability
At least you've got swag, Swaggy.
Interesting thought. Echoed later on by:
Thought the same. Also thought his early, presumably high-society life in GB might have been a factor in seeding the ideas of sophisticated/refined etc. vs 'American brutes'.
Most human response in the thread so far.
Depends. $15 dinner at some restaurant? Or $5000/platter wining and dining at a bigwig fundraiser. Because depending on the woman...
neither of those entitles a man to sex
@Alex99
Rodgers's rage at his perceived injustice is rooted in his narcissism, he makes that quite clear. He can't understand why someone of his 'magnificence' is rejected in favour of what he perceives to be inferior males. His crass drawing even indicates that he believes the sexual revolution has precluded some males, including himself, altogether from a sexually active life. It is hardly tallies up with your claim that he murdered these women, oh wait, and men, simply because he felt entitled by a misogynistic culture to be sleeping with whatever woman he wanted
I am not disputing that misogyny can lead to violence against women from males that carry a sense of entitlement. With Rodgers I feel that you are looking at a different case.
Misogyny, in the form of men hating women because of problematic relationships with them, is something that I don't believe will ever be eradicated completely by a cultural narrative. The relationship dynamics that can lead to such a quandary are common. Women will always damage the egos of men by rejecting them. Women will always break men's hearts. When you have someone with the personality disorders of Rodgers, someone who has likely experienced certain traumatic events in childhood, then you have the perfect storm.
Interestingly there was a study from Glasgow university published a few days ago that found that 28% of mass and serial murderers were on the Autism spectrum. I haven't read it properly so I won't speculate on it.
Rodgers's rage at his perceived injustice is rooted in his narcissism, he makes that quite clear. He can't understand why someone of his 'magnificence' is rejected in favour of what he perceives to be inferior males. His crass drawing even indicates that he believes the sexual revolution has precluded some males, including himself, altogether from a sexually active life. It is hardly tallies up with your claim that he murdered these women, oh wait, and men, simply because he felt entitled by a misogynistic culture to be sleeping with whatever woman he wanted
I am not disputing that misogyny can lead to violence against women from males that carry a sense of entitlement. With Rodgers I feel that you are looking at a different case.
Misogyny, in the form of men hating women because of problematic relationships with them, is something that I don't believe will ever be eradicated completely by a cultural narrative. The relationship dynamics that can lead to such a quandary are common. Women will always damage the egos of men by rejecting them. Women will always break men's hearts. When you have someone with the personality disorders of Rodgers, someone who has likely experienced certain traumatic events in childhood, then you have the perfect storm.
Interestingly there was a study from Glasgow university published a few days ago that found that 28% of mass and serial murderers were on the Autism spectrum. I haven't read it properly so I won't speculate on it.
That was the weirdest thing for me. I only just watched that video a few hours ago and he honestly sounds and acts like a poorly scripted character. The phrases he uses and the way he says it sound more like films or videogames than like a real person would. The whole thing seems oddly scripted, even down to the way he looks at the camera and the way he laughs
We have a video confession where he states he will go and kill women at a specific place because he hates them. He went to that place and killed women. It was born through misogyny.
Also, the link regarding autism I posted has something related to your little tidbit there. It shows that autistic criminals tend to also suffer from other disorders, such as schizoaffective disorder.
He was a man in search of a personality, so it's little surprise if he lacked his own lines.
I'd imagine the strange laugh was a poor attempt at coming off as some sort of 'joker' type character. That was my impression anyway.
@Alex99
I think that Rodgers was suffering from at least one other personality disorder!
I don't believe that it was born out of misogyny. The manifestation was certainly misogynistic but I believe that it was born out of an inability to connect with the social world due to psychological disorders.
I think that Rodgers was suffering from at least one other personality disorder!
I don't believe that it was born out of misogyny. The manifestation was certainly misogynistic but I believe that it was born out of an inability to connect with the social world due to psychological disorders.
This nails it, however gun control is beyond argument. If he's disturbed, and if he doesn't get his hands on a gun, the casualties here could have been limited, IMHO.
Yeah that's a really good post
How exactly did a kid with diagnosed mental disorders and who was seeing a shrink every day manage to get hold of a gun. America really need to sort it’s shit out, as that shouldn’t be possible. Yet it feels like it happens once a month these days.
The mind boggles, and California is supposed to have the strictest gun laws. The cops were called by the parents, and there were just so many red flags for this kid. Why didn't the fecking NSA catch it.
One part that disturbed me about this was his behaviour, it seemed very scripted and pantomine-like. Having Aspergers could explain this, as from what I have read, many people with the condition cannot empathise, so try to fit in by mimicing what they see around themselves.
His values could then be said to reflect our society:
Blondes, sex, material items, violence.
His video was like watching a vulcan WWE wrestlers pre fight clip.
His values could then be said to reflect our society:
Blondes, sex, material items, violence.
His video was like watching a vulcan WWE wrestlers pre fight clip.
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Spent the past couple hours reading his manifesto, and it's a chilling and thoroughly-detailed account of his life. It is amazing to see how calculated he was in carrying out what he calls his "day of retribution". Every tiny detail was planned, and he clearly knew the consequences of his actions. This is not the actions of someone who's insane. I mean yes he's insane for actually carrying this out, but he's quite lucid in his writing of what he hopes to achieve. That he expresses a couple times his amazement and sadness that it's actually come to this, reinforces that as well. Also, his attention to detail is remarkable. He's able to recall specific events that happened to him his first day as a 1st-grader when he's 6 years old. I'm incredibly shocked by his honesty. As narcissistic as he was, he's brutally honest in many areas which one wouldn't necessarily expect with someone of his nature. Don't want this to sound inappropriate, but he really wasn't a half-bad writer. It reads almost like a screenplay. If not for the tragic consequences that had transpired, it feels like a black comedy a la American Psycho (minus the sex and killing). And like someone else mentioned, I did feel a sense of pity for this piece of shit.
I'm no doctor, but from reading that it appears he must have been suffering from a multitude of deeply disturbing, psychological disorders. This is clearly not a severe case of misogyny gone bad. How he can be so hypersensitive yet feels no empathy for others is striking. You just know that many of these supposed slights he suffered were overdramatized and imagined in his own head. Although the prediction his stepmother made about his younger half-brother losing his virginity at an early age seems odd. The real shame is it's obvious that the signs were there to prevent this. His parents come across as enablers of the worst kind and should have drawn a line in the sand a long time ago. Sounds like he's been able to get his way for years by literally breaking down and crying. That a young man is so emotionally unstable that he's frequently reduced to bouts of crying should have set off warning bells. The part where he mentions when the cops came to his apartment and how if they searched his room, it would have all ended right there will be especially tough for the victims' friends and families to hear. Starting from throwing coffee and soda on people, to soaking people with a water gun, to trying to push them off a ledge, the gradual buildup leading to his final actions is all there. This 137-page manifesto is a fascinating profile into his behavior. If there's any consolation at all, it appears that he intended to kill much more than the 7 victims, and the death toll could have been much higher.
I'm no doctor, but from reading that it appears he must have been suffering from a multitude of deeply disturbing, psychological disorders. This is clearly not a severe case of misogyny gone bad. How he can be so hypersensitive yet feels no empathy for others is striking. You just know that many of these supposed slights he suffered were overdramatized and imagined in his own head. Although the prediction his stepmother made about his younger half-brother losing his virginity at an early age seems odd. The real shame is it's obvious that the signs were there to prevent this. His parents come across as enablers of the worst kind and should have drawn a line in the sand a long time ago. Sounds like he's been able to get his way for years by literally breaking down and crying. That a young man is so emotionally unstable that he's frequently reduced to bouts of crying should have set off warning bells. The part where he mentions when the cops came to his apartment and how if they searched his room, it would have all ended right there will be especially tough for the victims' friends and families to hear. Starting from throwing coffee and soda on people, to soaking people with a water gun, to trying to push them off a ledge, the gradual buildup leading to his final actions is all there. This 137-page manifesto is a fascinating profile into his behavior. If there's any consolation at all, it appears that he intended to kill much more than the 7 victims, and the death toll could have been much higher.
Spoken Manifesto, with mock anger added for effect:
Should be more pics of the victims and less of the murderer in the press.
Never cringed so hard when he 'laughed' in the OP video.
This. Giving these people press coverage is only encouraging it to happen again.
Do we know that he went out and bought one? Maybe he stole it from a friend or got one illegally.
No, legal guns registered to him.
Insanity.
The world is full of people like him, people who blame others for their own shortcomings. It's always easier to play the victim/martyr than making an effort to change what's wrong with your life.
Mix that with a mental disease and let it happen in a nation where you get a gun with a pack of cornflakes and you'll keep having situations like this over and over again.
Guns are definately a big part of the problem but I feel there's something wrong with the education aswell. Altough it would be a good first step, banning guns alone won't solve the problem, a nutcase that wants to go on a rampage won't have much trouble getting his hands on a gun on the black market anyway.
Mix that with a mental disease and let it happen in a nation where you get a gun with a pack of cornflakes and you'll keep having situations like this over and over again.
Guns are definately a big part of the problem but I feel there's something wrong with the education aswell. Altough it would be a good first step, banning guns alone won't solve the problem, a nutcase that wants to go on a rampage won't have much trouble getting his hands on a gun on the black market anyway.