Saudi signing wave: What are the implications? Is it weakening the Premier League?

Daverson

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I think they want their own super league, or at least to be part of it.

Once they have their strengthened league, in a few years time, it will be time to construct the super league with only the "elite" teams participating. A bit like what all those european clubs did recently.
 

BULB

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Just wait until they start trying to push/bribe their way into the Champions League.

Looking forward to Neville announcing he's going there to commentate because he believes they are trying to change.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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All the fuss over the 1 billion Mbappe offer, then one day later it turns out it's nowhere close to 1 billion and he's refused to meet with them anyway.
 

Mb194dc

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All the fuss over the 1 billion Mbappe offer, then one day later it turns out it's nowhere close to 1 billion and he's refused to meet with them anyway.
He's going to pocket his "transfer" fee and has no interest in playing in Saudi.

What will be interesting is if PSG are prepared to let him rot in the reserves all season or not.
 

Lee565

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He's going to pocket his "transfer" fee and has no interest in playing in Saudi.

What will be interesting is if PSG are prepared to let him rot in the reserves all season or not.
They won't put him in reserves, it's not good pr for their sports washing agenda to bench a french national icon which will create big backlash across all levels
 

Iker Quesadillas

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What will be interesting is if PSG are prepared to let him rot in the reserves all season or not.
Legality aside, they don' t have the squad for it. Mbappe and Messi scored over 50% of their goals last season and they haven't really signed any strikers. It would get very tense if/when results don't come.
 

justsomebloke

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But the former USSR states isn't a blanket rule, it seems like those countries can basically choose which way to go - there are some playing in UEFA and some playing in AFC. Russia itself is huge and stretches all the way across Asia, I'm sure Saudi can work out some way they should join UEFA, can just claim to be ex Ottoman if former USSR is a way to join (that's not entirely serious but you get the point).

I actually think if UEFA did block them, it would be the only way to really damage what they are trying to do but I have so little faith in UEFA doing anything aside from taking some briefcases loads with cash and merging with the AFC or allowing Saudi to defect.
This just got settled this way at the time for obvious reasons. These countries came out of the USSR, and the USSR was in UEFA. Israel's there because they've got nowhere else to be. And that's not particular to football, they're in the EBU as well, f.e. Doesn't mean there's a general opening for non-European countries to join UEFA.
 

SportingCP96

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The way things stand I can see Saudi Arabia being a top 10 league in the world in 2 years.

The level just this season alone has gone up tremendously and I don’t see it stopping.
 

tomaldinho1

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This just got settled this way at the time for obvious reasons. These countries came out of the USSR, and the USSR was in UEFA. Israel's there because they've got nowhere else to be. And that's not particular to football, they're in the EBU as well, f.e. Doesn't mean there's a general opening for non-European countries to join UEFA.
Yes was already discussed - point being UEFA don't have a history of doing things by the book and these governing bodies aren't strictly by continent regardless of why. We can only hypothesise what might happen but it's my opinion somehow gaining access to CL is their ultimate goal, maybe they can push to expand the CL, my guess would be that they build these 4 teams domestically for a couple of seasons, then create their own version of the ESL which will attract the financially compromised clubs like Juve, Barca, Atletico etc. and there's your perfect replica of the LIV vs PGA scenario. UEFA are caught between a rock and a hard place with a vastly weakened competition and an infinitely rich adversary and agree to merge back into the CL format, name and branding but with the integration of the Saudi ESL.
 

The Purley King

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The way things stand I can see Saudi Arabia being a top 10 league in the world in 2 years.

The level just this season alone has gone up tremendously and I don’t see it stopping.
https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/#google_vignette

Potentially but going by this grading they may manage that. Not sure how this list is created though.
It’s not a massive stretch to think they might be better than the championship in 2-3 years if they continue this crazy spending.
The more pertinent question is will anyone care or watch?
 

golden_blunder

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Mbappe: “If it was about the money, I could just renew with PSG with a better financial contract. Why would I go to a league where players go when they don’t have offers from any European clubs.”
So to those who thought he’d definitely go and it would boost this league what say you now?
 

tomaldinho1

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Mbappe: “If it was about the money, I could just renew with PSG with a better financial contract. Why would I go to a league where players go when they don’t have offers from any European clubs.”
So to those who thought he’d definitely go and it would boost this league what say you now?
Only thing that makes sense for him is a loan to the PL in my opinion. Then he goes Real next season and can say ‘I’ve played in the PL’ and everyone can see how he does and he probably realises the weather shit and he’ll stay in Madrid forever but at least he’s have tried it. United need an attacker, we’ve got the brand and size and to be honest I think taking him on loan is a lot less drama than signing him. Make it happen.
 

Alex99

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The way things stand I can see Saudi Arabia being a top 10 league in the world in 2 years.

The level just this season alone has gone up tremendously and I don’t see it stopping.
Or it goes the way of the Chinese project and fizzles out after an initial wave of moves.

They've actually got rules that a team can only register 8 foreign players, so they're going to have to remove that if it's to really improve the level.
 

matherto

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Mbappe: “If it was about the money, I could just renew with PSG with a better financial contract. Why would I go to a league where players go when they don’t have offers from any European clubs.”
So to those who thought he’d definitely go and it would boost this league what say you now?
Fair fecks.

Always nice to be proven wrong.
 

lysglimt

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The way things stand I can see Saudi Arabia being a top 10 league in the world in 2 years.

The level just this season alone has gone up tremendously and I don’t see it stopping.
2 years time ? I think it will be a lot quicker than that
 

lysglimt

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£700,000 pw for Jordan Henderson :houllier::lol:
It's hard to show a lot of morals when you are offered that kind of money. People criticize the players - and rightly so - but when you have 2-3 years left to play, and you are either offered €150.000 in the P.L or £700.000 in the middle East - it's not that easy to turn it down.
 

SportingCP96

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Or it goes the way of the Chinese project and fizzles out after an initial wave of moves.

They've actually got rules that a team can only register 8 foreign players, so they're going to have to remove that if it's to really improve the level.
Well the Chinese were signing mid tier guys.
Saudi is getting top talent and much bigger names. They mean business and I think people might have to come to terms with this reality that this league might be here to stay.
 

Wumminator

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Mbappe: “If it was about the money, I could just renew with PSG with a better financial contract. Why would I go to a league where players go when they don’t have offers from any European clubs.”
So to those who thought he’d definitely go and it would boost this league what say you now?

Where did you get that quote from?
 

The Boy

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Or it goes the way of the Chinese project and fizzles out after an initial wave of moves.
Covid killed the Chinese project, with a bot of luck the Saudi project won't have to deal with anything like that.
 

tenpoless

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Mbappe: “If it was about the money, I could just renew with PSG with a better financial contract. Why would I go to a league where players go when they don’t have offers from any European clubs.”
So to those who thought he’d definitely go and it would boost this league what say you now?
To be fair theres a difference between a decent player like Neves and a generational player like Mbappe. Mbappe can play anywhere and make stupid money. It doesnt have to be SA. Neves cant.
 

dinostar77

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The way things stand I can see Saudi Arabia being a top 10 league in the world in 2 years.

The level just this season alone has gone up tremendously and I don’t see it stopping.
It depends, we were saying similar stuff about china till the state cut the legs off it.

Saudi 2030 vision is to completely change their society and the dependency on oil to bring in the majority of their revenue. They want to open up tourism and a large slice of the tourism that dubai gets. Bringing in various forms of entertainment i.e. sport for example is just one avenue that will help.

I wouldnt be suprised if many players who are going to saudi, left after a year. Its just not dubai at the moment. Still has an absolute monarchy and very strict interpretation of religious rules that will clash with the desire to open up more to tourists.
 

Cloudface

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It's hard to show a lot of morals when you are offered that kind of money. People criticize the players - and rightly so - but when you have 2-3 years left to play, and you are either offered €150.000 in the P.L or £700.000 in the middle East - it's not that easy to turn it down.
There are people who make barely a few quid a week travelling to unsafe countries and suffering terrible conditions just so they get get a bit more for their families back home. That's a difficult choice.

Jordan Henderson and others (multi millionaire footballers whose families will live in comfort for a few generations) just want to sit in a compound in the middle-east to see some extra numbers from the Saudi government tick over in their account. This is very easy to turn down.
 

GazTheLegend

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The way things stand I can see Saudi Arabia being a top 10 league in the world in 2 years.

The level just this season alone has gone up tremendously and I don’t see it stopping.
I don't think it's likely for quite a few reasons. Maybe not each as strong as the other but still. I won't put "morality" in there because as we know footballers are lying, thick as shit planks like Henderson and do sell their morals once a threshold is reached but there are plenty of SELFISH reasons for players to not go:
  1. Prestige. Most young European players dream about winning the champions league. Without that dream why even play football?
  2. Location. Playing and living in London, Madrid and Manchester is surely a more attractive lifestyle than Saudi.
  3. Discipline. Although rich footballers will obviously have a LOT of leeway there, I would be nervous particularly if I had family - to be asking your young daughters and your wife to move to a rabid patriarchal society even for insane money is a tough choice. The alternative being they stay at home in whatever country, but then you're on your own.
And from the Saudi perspective it will be a money pit at first, much like China the financial losses will be staggering. You can't suck up premier league wages without premier league TV deals forever. Maybe people will watch the Saudi super League - I wouldn't do it for free.
 

cafecillos

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The only player that they have signed so far that I really like is Mahrez, and even he is thirty something, so very likely just about to start his decline. I think this will fizzle out fairly quickly. I'd be much more worried if it were the MLS.
 

Dan_F

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It's hard to show a lot of morals when you are offered that kind of money. People criticize the players - and rightly so - but when you have 2-3 years left to play, and you are either offered €150.000 in the P.L or £700.000 in the middle East - it's not that easy to turn it down.
These people are multi millionaires. It’s not hard to show morals when you and your family are set for life. ESPECIALLY when you have pretended to advocate so hard for them and kind of made it your brand to do so.

No one said anything about Ronaldo’s morals when he moved, obviously.
 

Alex99

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Well the Chinese were signing mid tier guys.
Saudi is getting top talent and much bigger names. They mean business and I think people might have to come to terms with this reality that this league might be here to stay.
Is it top talent? Most aren't great or are over the hill.

Covid killed the Chinese project, with a bot of luck the Saudi project won't have to deal with anything like that.
It was dead before covid was a thing. They introduced a transfer fee cap in 2017, and have maintained a cap on the number of foreign players allowed in a squad, and actually made it stricter. It pretty much dried up after that, with only a couple more (semi-)noteable moves after 2017. They also introduced a salary cap in 2020.

There doesn't seem to be much interest in a cap on salaries in Saudi Arabia, but fees (Mbappe bid notwithstanding) have hardly been earth shattering, and they've also got a limit on foreign players in squads.

People are definitely overstating the quality of player going there. Bar a couple of exceptions, you wouldn't have been surprised if most had instead opted for a move to an MLS club.
 

adexkola

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I don't think it's likely for quite a few reasons. Maybe not each as strong as the other but still. I won't put "morality" in there because as we know footballers are lying, thick as shit planks like Henderson and do sell their morals once a threshold is reached but there are plenty of SELFISH reasons for players to not go:
  1. Prestige. Most young European players dream about winning the champions league. Without that dream why even play football?
  2. Location. Playing and living in London, Madrid and Manchester is surely a more attractive lifestyle than Saudi.
  3. Discipline. Although rich footballers will obviously have a LOT of leeway there, I would be nervous particularly if I had family - to be asking your young daughters and your wife to move to a rabid patriarchal society even for insane money is a tough choice. The alternative being they stay at home in whatever country, but then you're on your own.
And from the Saudi perspective it will be a money pit at first, much like China the financial losses will be staggering. You can't suck up premier league wages without premier league TV deals forever. Maybe people will watch the Saudi super League - I wouldn't do it for free.
Nice job sneaking in Manchester there :D
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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This league will have big implications for the Premier League already, in terms of inflating transfer fees and wages even more.
 

justsomebloke

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Is it top talent? Most aren't great or are over the hill.



It was dead before covid was a thing. They introduced a transfer fee cap in 2017, and have maintained a cap on the number of foreign players allowed in a squad, and actually made it stricter. It pretty much dried up after that, with only a couple more (semi-)noteable moves after 2017. They also introduced a salary cap in 2020.

There doesn't seem to be much interest in a cap on salaries in Saudi Arabia, but fees (Mbappe bid notwithstanding) have hardly been earth shattering, and they've also got a limit on foreign players in squads.

People are definitely overstating the quality of player going there. Bar a couple of exceptions, you wouldn't have been surprised if most had instead opted for a move to an MLS club.
The Chinese to all appearances made a strategic turn and more or less dropped the project, and as you say, they did that before Covid. But that doesn't really tell us anything about what the Saudis will do.
 

glasgow 21

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I don't think it's likely for quite a few reasons. Maybe not each as strong as the other but still. I won't put "morality" in there because as we know footballers are lying, thick as shit planks like Henderson and do sell their morals once a threshold is reached but there are plenty of SELFISH reasons for players to not go:
  1. Prestige. Most young European players dream about winning the champions league. Without that dream why even play football?
  2. Location. Playing and living in London, Madrid and Manchester is surely a more attractive lifestyle than Saudi.
  3. Discipline. Although rich footballers will obviously have a LOT of leeway there, I would be nervous particularly if I had family - to be asking your young daughters and your wife to move to a rabid patriarchal society even for insane money is a tough choice. The alternative being they stay at home in whatever country, but then you're on your own.
And from the Saudi perspective it will be a money pit at first, much like China the financial losses will be staggering. You can't suck up premier league wages without premier league TV deals forever. Maybe people will watch the Saudi super League - I wouldn't do it for free.
The biggest shift that will impact this is the growing fan base that follow the player and not necessarily the team.
Location well most are choosing Bahrain etc as location for wife shopping kids education an socialising so don't see that as a major issue. I don't see any of these player subjected to the same cultural rules as the locals.
Although we are supposed to hold these players as role models lots are far from it, and the only role part is that they actual keep themselves fit to run 90 mins.

Finally your suggestion that Saudi can't suck up the losses is nonsense. They will do what it takes. Their "post oil fund " has a bottom less pit.

The real issue will come if they are allowed to play in European competitions.
 

justsomebloke

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Yes was already discussed - point being UEFA don't have a history of doing things by the book and these governing bodies aren't strictly by continent regardless of why. We can only hypothesise what might happen but it's my opinion somehow gaining access to CL is their ultimate goal, maybe they can push to expand the CL, my guess would be that they build these 4 teams domestically for a couple of seasons, then create their own version of the ESL which will attract the financially compromised clubs like Juve, Barca, Atletico etc. and there's your perfect replica of the LIV vs PGA scenario. UEFA are caught between a rock and a hard place with a vastly weakened competition and an infinitely rich adversary and agree to merge back into the CL format, name and branding but with the integration of the Saudi ESL.
Don't really agree that's a valid observation. Absorbing Israel and the former Soviet republics was on the contrary doing things exactly by the book. It's the same solutions that were generally applied more or less across the board in all areas, not just in sports. It'd have been much more not by the book if they'd done something different. It's wildly speculative to think that creates any sort of opening or precedence that might point in the direction of UEFA poaching countries or competitions belonging to other federations. Something like that has never happened.
 

tomaldinho1

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Don't really agree that's a valid observation. Absorbing Israel and the former Soviet republics was on the contrary doing things exactly by the book. It's the same solutions that were generally applied more or less across the board in all areas, not just in sports. It'd have been much more not by the book if they'd done something different. It's wildly speculative to think that creates any sort of opening or precedence that might point in the direction of UEFA poaching countries or competitions belonging to other federations. Something like that has never happened.
Ok let’s see. Understand your point but think we’ll see some kind of inflexion point in a few years designed to get them in.
 

GazTheLegend

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Finally your suggestion that Saudi can't suck up the losses is nonsense. They will do what it takes. Their "post oil fund " has a bottom less pit.
There is no such thing as a bottomless pit. The reason billionaires are billionaires (even the Arabs) is NOT philanthropy. You can't throw a billion at footballers and remain a billionaire without recouping that money eventually - and if it looks like they won't recoup it will they really carry on just to make it the biggest "feck you" exercise the world has ever seen? Why do you think the CCP pulled out in the end?

To quote the party line there ""To benefit the healthy and steady development of professional football leagues and curb the irrational spending on players, those clubs which are in the red should pay the same sums of money as they are spending on buying players to the Chinese Football Development Fund,” the CFA said."

Nice job sneaking in Manchester there :D
Manchester is utterly awesome and I'll die on that hill.
 

justsomebloke

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There is no such thing as a bottomless pit. The reason billionaires are billionaires (even the Arabs) is NOT philanthropy. You can't throw a billion at footballers and remain a billionaire without recouping that money eventually - and if it looks like they won't recoup it will they really carry on just to make it the biggest "feck you" exercise the world has ever seen? Why do you think the CCP pulled out in the end?
I think maybe you need to take a somewhat broader view of what sort of return they're expecting on the investment. They don't have shareholders, and they're obviously not looking to simply make money. If they were, there'd be a lot of simpler and surer ways to do that.