Saudi woman flees country as she thinks family will kill her as she defected from Islam
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Insane that adult women need male guardians to do stuff in Saudi society.
I dunno... My wife seems pretty adamant I need her permission and supervision to do anything in western society
Please fix the plural "women" in the title.
Hoping she gets offered refuge somewhere
Can this be merged with the posts in the religion and Islam threads?
I have connections with the Saudi expat student community in Ireland.
From speaking to and observing the Saudi women they rely on the permission of a male guardian or the State. They seem to lack any real freedom.
In other respects the women I met are surprisingly westernised. They have good European and/or American education. They speak excellent English and enjoy many aspects of western culture. The women also seem to integrate better than the men.
From speaking to and observing the Saudi women they rely on the permission of a male guardian or the State. They seem to lack any real freedom.
In other respects the women I met are surprisingly westernised. They have good European and/or American education. They speak excellent English and enjoy many aspects of western culture. The women also seem to integrate better than the men.
Unsurprising given Western society values them more and gives them more liberty and social freedoms not to mention respect. And again unsurprising men intergrate worse given their status within Saudi culture.
Women in the west live in a far from perfect world, but it is eons beyond what it is like in places like Saudi.
I had a Saudi mate in uni who insisted he would never allow his wife drive. This was a guy I used to do shit with that would never be allowed in his country. He wasn't overly religious, well at least in front of me.
Misogyny is ingrained in that society like a lot of others.
Misogyny is ingrained in that society like a lot of others.
Saudi Arabia won't last a year without the backing of the democratic and freedom loving west.
If the Saudi royals and government fell would it's replacement be better for it's women, or worse?
I'm not advocating support for the status quo by the way, my preferred option is to stay out of middle east politics as much as possible, I'm just wondering what improvement there would be.
It is funny when I see one of these stories. It's so easy to guess what the problem is!
This is too true. I cant even buy clothes any more without her approval, otherwise she'll just say she doesn't like it and I'll inevitably end up having to take it back. The couple of times I've gone rogue I just get non stop challenges...oh no don't wear that...
Same for buying stuff in the home.
Sometimes even food shopping.
You eventually get to the point where you stop making decisions, except you will get some woman who will then complain you never make decisions.
I don't know but going by recent trends some right wing govt will take its place. Liberty and freedom is never given by the rulers to the people, it has to be fought for and obtained by force. The people of these countries will have to fight for it themselves.
At this rate it won’t survive very long even with full backing. The infighting within the royal family has reached a pivotal point where it’s a matter of time where it explodes into an all out civil war. Then you couple in the very awkward geopolitical implications of its oil fields being primarily located within its Shia areas (Iran likes this) as well as increased animosity with once-allies Turkey and Qatar.
MBS will only catalyse this demise with his reckless and arrogant nature.
Just as bad I imagine. Misogyny is ingrained in the society in Saudi Arabia, and the government just help enforce it. Most of it comes from the people who live it.
Are you hinting the problem may be Islam? The country with the most muslims is Indonesia, don't see a lot of this sort of stuff happening there. Although, Wahhabism (a sect of Islam) is definitely a large factor in the attitude Saudi Arabia has.
Elaborate then
Kind of - In these cases strict religious values are almost always the culprit. I'd hazard a guess the majority are attributable to Islam.
Wouldn't want to be a woman in Saudi, it's like being black in 50's America.
There are pockets where it does though.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...n-and-women-from-dining-together-islamic-aceh
Religious upbringing is a factor, though not the only culprit. When you are brought up in an environment where you are repeatedly discouraged to interact with women prior to marriage, misogyny arises naturally.
The problem can be solved if boys are allowed to interact with girls as friends rather than restricting them and so on from an early age, whereby they can understand that females are their equals and thinking human beings as well.
That's not the problem. The problem is the mindset that wouldnt allow things like that in the first place. They're taught like that, raised like that, and faced possible stoning if they dare to stray away from that.
It's a simple matter in the eyes of the west but it certainly isnt when religion is involved.
You know that the vast majority of Muslims despise the Saudi regime. Conversely, the supposedly freedom loving West seem to adore them. Heck the Australians decided to cancel her visa lest they upset their Saudi buddies.
@fergieisold actually you make a fair point. The concept of a 'wali' i.e. a guardian is not mentioned in the Qur'an apart from in the context that Allah is your 'guardian/protector' in a more generic sense to the whole of mankind. This concept of women not being able to go anywhere comes from hadith (man-made fabricated jurisprudence post the Prophet's lifetime and not attributable to any verse in the Qur'an).
So yes in a way you can argue it is 'Islamic' and not down to wahhibism or Saudi regime, on the other hand you can argue it doesn't represent 'true' Islam at all and is a fiction created by previous Saudi regimes dating to post the Prophet's lifetime and done in order to manipulate, control and abuse women for over a thousand years.
Final point, the girl says she has become atheist or agnostic and now feels her life is in danger. Why? again apostasy laws which have been created using this concept of 'hadith' - now allow so called Islamic nations to kill non-believers, and yet you try and find any verse in the Qur'an which supports such a punishment and you won't find a single one. The Qur'an says there is no compulsion to believe and to let God be the judge of anyone who chooses to leave the faith behind and to let them go in peace - which makes sense because 10 years down the line, they might come back to the faith of their own accord, if you kill them, you're basically robbing their chance of ever finding the faith again.
In summary yes modern day and post Prophetic 'Islam' is to blame, but at the same time 'Islam' in the form of what it was described and taught by the Prophet is not to blame.
So yes in a way you can argue it is 'Islamic' and not down to wahhibism or Saudi regime, on the other hand you can argue it doesn't represent 'true' Islam at all and is a fiction created by previous Saudi regimes dating to post the Prophet's lifetime and done in order to manipulate, control and abuse women for over a thousand years.
Final point, the girl says she has become atheist or agnostic and now feels her life is in danger. Why? again apostasy laws which have been created using this concept of 'hadith' - now allow so called Islamic nations to kill non-believers, and yet you try and find any verse in the Qur'an which supports such a punishment and you won't find a single one. The Qur'an says there is no compulsion to believe and to let God be the judge of anyone who chooses to leave the faith behind and to let them go in peace - which makes sense because 10 years down the line, they might come back to the faith of their own accord, if you kill them, you're basically robbing their chance of ever finding the faith again.
In summary yes modern day and post Prophetic 'Islam' is to blame, but at the same time 'Islam' in the form of what it was described and taught by the Prophet is not to blame.
Neither shocked nor surprised to be reading about this.
What I am surprised about is why not more is being made about it in the media.
Well i am not surprised, money and the carefree murder of your own civilian populace let alone foreigners can curtail and restrict peoples appetite to report on these things.
What I am surprised about is why not more is being made about it in the media.
Well i am not surprised, money and the carefree murder of your own civilian populace let alone foreigners can curtail and restrict peoples appetite to report on these things.
I agree, its a factor. Also I agree that some of this does occur in Indonesia, but at far smaller scale.
A tourist visa is not applicable because she would not be entering as a tourist and the Australians are now working with the UNHCR.
https://www.9news.com.au/2019/01/07...audi-arabia-bangkok-airport-kuwait-deporation
Thanks for the clarification, I stand corrected.
I stand by my original point though.
And yet some people think that having this lot owning and running our football club would be a good idea!
But I digress...
They adore their money....That's it.
Not sure what that has to do with religious oppression by a girls family.
Interesting, I did think that people 'leaving' the religion was unacceptable but as you say this is a manipulation of religion, or the use of religion to exert control on people.
If I could rule Saudi for 3 months I would bring in strict guidelines for men:
Ah...just dreaming...
- Could not travel anywhere without the permission of a female guardian/relative
- Could not travel without being accompanied by a female guardian/relative
- Could not leave the house without permission from a female relative
- Could not mix socially with any females unless they were family
- Not allowed to drive
- Could not study in mixed company unless the females were family
- Could not work without the permission of a female relative
- Nearly forgot...it will be a crime for any unmarried male to disobey his father/mother or if married, his wife.
- Last but not least...had to wear an abaya and niqab outside the house at all times
Ah...just dreaming...
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The religious oppression you describe is state sanctioned policy in Saudi Arabia.
And also, according to this and in varying degrees, in Afghanistan, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania and Sudan.
I think we (United) dodged a bullet with the Saudi deal, if there ever was one that is..
fecking A. What a depressing thread that was with people willing to ignore this kind of thing if it meant owners with deep pockets.
But we could have bought Neymar!
Another reason why we don’t want them..we have enough prima donnas as it is.
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I've followed this story with interest for the last couple of days - the young woman is very brave and clever, too. She knew that her best option was to get her name and picture all over the media, and she's done that. It's much harder to force someone on a flight back to almost-certain mortal danger when the world and his wife are aware of what's going on.
She says her father imprisoned her in her room for 6 months just for cutting her hair. Here she is earlier this week, barricaded in a hotel room at the airport - a female journalist was there with her. Let's hope Australia soon help her to get out of Thailand.
She says her father imprisoned her in her room for 6 months just for cutting her hair. Here she is earlier this week, barricaded in a hotel room at the airport - a female journalist was there with her. Let's hope Australia soon help her to get out of Thailand.
I was disgusted at the amount of people who were not just okay with it, but actively wanted it to happen, just so we would have our own oil daddy. That was probably the only thread in my time on the caf that really made me feel sick.