Saudis taking over Newcastle | Maybe not

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adexkola

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I understand that sentiment but there’s definitely an argument that the majority of those clubs are big because of their historical performances and the huge amount of hard work that laid the groundwork for that. It’s almost like saying feck the work that Sir Matt and Sir Alex put into United, if corrupt oil sheiks want to spunk money up the wall to bypass that hard work and get to the top of the footballing landscape they should be able to without question.
Shout-out to Sir Alex, but we benefited from the expansion of the PL and the exposure from Sky, as much as we did from Sir Alex's work. So issue 1: size is not 100% related to merit; luck and position matters just as much.

Second: with an established hierarchy of top historical clubs, it's insanely difficult for other clubs to profit purely from hard work. I would be more mad at Man City and Chelsea and PSG if there were examples of smaller clubs using prudent spending and bringing through talent to make it to the top and take advantage of slip-ups from the elite. The top clubs know this but they only cared when competitors came that could use money to negate the lopsided advantages they held historically. It's why I can't take the president of La Liga, Legas seriously; whining about City while allowing Barcelona to feck over Leganes? Less said about Southampton the better. And so on.

I'm all for proper financial regulation in the game that dampens the effect of just splashing money around (whether it's earned or not). I want success to go to the clubs that are managed superbly, that bring a lot of youth through to the first team, or find gems at discounted prices, and can innovate on/off the pitch. In the absence of that, I don't care whether the inequality is coming from teams that "earned it" or are new upstarts. I don't think it's healthy that the CL final stages are made up of the same old teams. I'll get behind an initiative that seeks to address all of that. FFP didn't do anything but pull up the ladder.
 

Slysi17

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Because being 'traditional' is too boring, being bank rolled by the Saudis is the new hipster thing. Didn't you know?
Are you a fecking Newcastle fan or something. In my eyes you have to earn your way to the top. Not win the Arab lottery enabling you to spend as much as you want and that money not being earnt. Basically a fifa cheat code.
 

diarm

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Shout-out to Sir Alex, but we benefited from the expansion of the PL and the exposure from Sky, as much as we did from Sir Alex's work. So issue 1: size is not 100% related to merit; luck and position matters just as much.

Second: with an established hierarchy of top historical clubs, it's insanely difficult for other clubs to profit purely from hard work. I would be more mad at Man City and Chelsea and PSG if there were examples of smaller clubs using prudent spending and bringing through talent to make it to the top and take advantage of slip-ups from the elite. The top clubs know this but they only cared when competitors came that could use money to negate the lopsided advantages they held historically. It's why I can't take the president of La Liga, Legas seriously; whining about City while allowing Barcelona to feck over Leganes? Less said about Southampton the better. And so on.

I'm all for proper financial regulation in the game that dampens the effect of just splashing money around (whether it's earned or not). I want success to go to the clubs that are managed superbly, that bring a lot of youth through to the first team, or find gems at discounted prices, and can innovate on/off the pitch. In the absence of that, I don't care whether the inequality is coming from teams that "earned it" or are new upstarts. I don't think it's healthy that the CL final stages are made up of the same old teams. I'll get behind an initiative that seeks to address all of that. FFP didn't do anything but pull up the ladder.
I agree with you, but such reform will never be possible when there are clubs owned by states.

I can see a future where the spending of Barcelona, Chelsea, United, Juventus and 99% of clubs can be regulated within a fair and beneficial system. That vision disappears when you try to include Qatar, UAE and Saudi into the equation.
 

Random Task

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Because being 'traditional' is too boring, being bank rolled by the Saudis is the new hipster thing. Didn't you know?
Are you a fecking Newcastle fan or something. In my eyes you have to earn your way to the top. Not win the Arab lottery enabling you to spend as much as you want and that money not being earnt. Basically a fifa cheat code.
When you fail to spot sarcasm and then some twat comes along and points it out to you :lol:
 

UnitedFan93

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That's the weird thing about the 'anti established clubs' argument. United, Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Juve etc will still compete and attract players.

It's the likes of Sheffield United, Wolves, Leicester, Southampton, West Ham, Everton and even Arsenal and Spurs to a lesser extent that will stand zero chance of competing. I realise that Wolves and Sheffield both have wealthy owners, but not in the same league as the state backed clubs.
Not for much longer. Now that FFP is pretty much over, none of those clubs can compete with countries.

City, PSG, and soon Newcastle will be able to bring in what ever revenues they like, and they know that they'll be able to get away with it. They'll spend what they like, knowing full well that they won't be punished for artifically inflating revenues. City will now just double whatever United are offering for a player. Unfortunately, money talks.

State owned football clubs are bad for football in general, full stop. They'll turn football into a pointless sport. They'll eventually make football less competitive, not more.
 

pascell

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Are you a fecking Newcastle fan or something. In my eyes you have to earn your way to the top. Not win the Arab lottery enabling you to spend as much as you want and that money not being earnt. Basically a fifa cheat code.
How did you know, is it the Titus Bramble and Shola Ameobi posters on my wall? :nervous: there's cheat codes in fifa? Do share mate, I'd love some of those!
 

adexkola

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I agree with you, but such reform will never be possible when there are clubs owned by states.

I can see a future where the spending of Barcelona, Chelsea, United, Juventus and 99% of clubs can be regulated within a fair and beneficial system. That vision disappears when you try to include Qatar, UAE and Saudi into the equation.
I agree, state spending is a bottomless pit. That should be outlawed.
 

Black Rick

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I’m pretty sure you’ve posted the exact same post before or at least I’ve seen it elsewhere. Are you just parroting this bullshit to anyone that’ll listen?

No one is ever going to be okay with Saudis sports washing their human rights abuses via your club.
Don't know what on earth you're talking about in your first paragraph, and regarding your second it's not "my club" and I already detailed my counter-argument in my original post.

Out of curiosity and given the cordial nature of my original post, did you think that the aggressive nature of your response would be more likely to bring me around to your way of thinking on this matter or even make me want to have a discussion with you about it? Then again I suppose it tallies with how you think we think we should treat Saudi Arabia.
 

In Rainbows

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So basically, Saudis have been taking care of piracy in Saudi Arabia the last month or so. People thought it was due to BeIn's (qatar based) issue over piracy and they were mending that. Now it appears that BeIn are upset as Saudi Arabia canceled BeIn's license.

Speculation is that Saudi Arabia are making their own broadcast network in place of BeIn, which explains why BeIn are pissed as they banned BeIn. So the takeover will happen, and Saudi Arabia's network gets money from the network as opposed to Bein being the broadcaster, and the PL gets a good deal for the rights. Or it could also mean that Saudis were rejected and thus they chose to cancel the rights as a FU, to BeIn.


Edit: To make it clear, and reiterating what I said earlier, the 2nd tweet is an example of that speculation. Don't take his word as gospel or anything other than speculation. As I said, it could go either way.
 
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BigDunc9

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It's worrying for 'traditional' clubs that have earned their money through periods of success and history in general.

They should just boot teams that have sugar daddies and give then a league called the European sugar daddy league, welcome PSG, City, Chelsea and newcastle (soon to be).
So because some teams had the good fortune to have their successful periods in the 90s and early 2000s when the Premier League was in it's boom they are now allowed to outspend every other team in the country ? FFP is joke and i'm happy City blew it out of the water.
 

cyberman

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So because some teams had the good fortune to have their successful periods in the 90s and early 2000s when the Premier League was in it's boom they are now allowed to outspend every other team in the country ? FFP is joke and i'm happy City blew it out of the water.
The top sides were top sides long before the 90s and 2000s
 

BigDunc9

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The top sides were top sides long before the 90s and 2000s
We can use both of our clubs as a perfect example. Up until 1993 Everton had 9 league titles and United had 7. If Everton's most successful period had been a decade later then it's likely we would be one of the richest clubs in the world now. It wasn't and we are not. Timing is the biggest factor in all this.
 

cyberman

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We can use both of our clubs as a perfect example. Up until 1993 Everton had 9 league titles and United had 7. If Everton's most successful period had been a decade later then it's likely we would be one of the richest clubs in the world now. It wasn't and we are not. Timing is the biggest factor in all this.
You are one of the richest clubs in the world?
What clubs does this even apply to? I honestly can't think of one.
 

BigDunc9

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You are one of the richest clubs in the world?
What clubs does this even apply to? I honestly can't think of one.
Manchester United have a wage bill that is four times what Evertons is. It is unrealistic to expect us to compete with such a big difference in spending.

Sorry i am not sure what you mean by who does this even apply to ?
 

stevoc

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We can use both of our clubs as a perfect example. Up until 1993 Everton had 9 league titles and United had 7. If Everton's most successful period had been a decade later then it's likely we would be one of the richest clubs in the world now. It wasn't and we are not. Timing is the biggest factor in all this.
I don’t think two league titles and a cup winners cup in the mid to late 90’s would have been enough to cement Everton’s position as one of the worlds richest clubs. Arsenal had similar success in the 90’s and it didn’t really lead to them becoming a world footballing superpower.

United had a huge world following even before the Premier League era. So I think they were uniquely positioned to take advantage of the exposure that success in the Premier League/Sky Sports era gave them.
 

BigDunc9

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I don’t think two league titles and a cup winners cup in the mid to late 90’s would have been enough to cement Everton’s position as one of the worlds richest clubs. Arsenal had similar success in the 90’s and it didn’t really lead to them becoming a world footballing superpower.

United had a huge world following even before the Premier League era. So I think they were uniquely positioned to take advantage of the exposure that success in the Premier League/Sky Sports era gave them.
Even then Arsenal have double the revenue we have and can therefore spend double what we can without upsetting the FFP rules.
 

stevoc

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Even then Arsenal have double the revenue we have and can therefore spend double what we can without upsetting the FFP rules.
If Everton had had their success in the 90's sure you might be making a more money now, maybe even a lot more. But i don't think it would have made them one of the worlds top 10 clubs

And like my point about United (and genuinely no offence intended here) in my opinion Arsenal were a bigger club than Everton even in the 80's. So it makes sense that their current revenue is higher, given they are a bigger more successful club and have been for a long time. Their location and potential fanbase plays a big part in that also.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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I must admit i felt slightly sorry for Newcastle, that they didn't win anything those years they were challenging us.

It would be ludicrous though if the PL allow a Saudi takeover. It's clear that State funded clubs have damaged the French & English Leagues. Why would you further damage the league & invite in more bad entities.
 

fps

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So because some teams had the good fortune to have their successful periods in the 90s and early 2000s when the Premier League was in it's boom they are now allowed to outspend every other team in the country ? FFP is joke and i'm happy City blew it out of the water.
Yes, this. The PL happens ten years earlier and it’s, who? Liverpool, Aston Villa, those kinda clubs who then dominate?
 

Castia

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I must admit i felt slightly sorry for Newcastle, that they didn't win anything those years they were challenging us.

It would be ludicrous though if the PL allow a Saudi takeover. It's clear that State funded clubs have damaged the French & English Leagues. Why would you further damage the league & invite in more bad entities.
Oh the PL will be loving it. They’ll now get a slice of the pie and charge KSA hundreds of millions for a ‘tv deal’ to broadcast PL games in Saudi Arabia.

I bet within weeks of the takeover being done KSA have a tv deal in place with the PL.
 

In Rainbows

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It's hard to make up ground in today's climate. You do well and your best talents get poached by the big clubs. Monaco did well and had Fabinho, Mbappe, Lemar, Bernardo, etc... poached.
 

Infra-red

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So because some teams had the good fortune to have their successful periods in the 90s and early 2000s when the Premier League was in it's boom they are now allowed to outspend every other team in the country ? FFP is joke and i'm happy City blew it out of the water.
Financial Fair play might not have done much to curb the spending of City and PSG, but in other areas, it has been working.

European clubs' losses have been cut every year since the advent of FFP. Just prior to its introduction, the losses stood at €1.67 billion (and total losses for the period 2008-2011 exceeded €5 billion) - in 2017, for the first time ever, the European game was actually profitable (to the tune of €615 million).

In addition, European clubs’ wage-to-revenue ratio of 61.3% is the lowest on record and clubs’ net equity quadrupled from €1.8 billion in 2008 to €7.7 billion in 2017.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ool-finanacial-fair-play-manchester-city-uefa

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/17/europe-clubs-benefit-ffp-first-profit

I am not saying the rules are perfect (they are not), but if, as seems likely, FFP has been dealt a fatal blow this week, it will not be a universally good thing.
 
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NWRed

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Financial Fair play might not have done much to curb the spending of City and PSG, but in other areas, it has been working.

European clubs' losses have been cut every year since the advent of FFP. Just prior to its introduction, the losses stood at €1.67bn (and total losses for the period 2008-2011 exceeded €5bn) - in 2017, for the first time ever, the European game was actually profitable (to the tune of a €615m).

In addition, European clubs’ wage-to-revenue ratio of 61.3% is the lowest on record and clubs’ net equity quadrupled from €1.8 billion in 2008 to €7.7 billion in 2017.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ool-finanacial-fair-play-manchester-city-uefa

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/17/europe-clubs-benefit-ffp-first-profit

I am not saying the rules are perfect (the are not), but if, as seems likely, FFP has been dealt a fatal blow this week, it will not be a universally good thing.
When you look at what City have just got away with and the games Juventus and Barcelona are playing with FFP you've missed the most important word, 'reported' losses.
 

Salt Bailly

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Penny for the thoughts of the Newcastle fans currently regretting investing in a bonesaw tattoo.
 

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A Newcastle fan that I used to work with has been gloating about his clubs looming dominance on Facebook for months. I wonder how he will take this news?
 

stu_1992

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Pulled out? Or just gave up to save face at not passing the Premier league a owners test? Perhaps there was something in the TV piracy stuff after all. We need to get some Newcastle forum reactions in here. I have seen plenty online talking themselves up when this takeover wasn't even confirmed. Right back to reality for that lot.
 

Brophs

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This is as low as Mike Ashley's been since he puked into that fireplace.
 

NinjaFletch

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My heart bleeds for all the Newcastle fans who preemptively decided to start sports washing for the Saudis.
 

Xeno

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Pulled out? Or just gave up to save face at not passing the Premier league a owners test? Perhaps there was something in the TV piracy stuff after all. We need to get some Newcastle forum reactions in here. I have seen plenty online talking themselves up when this takeover wasn't even confirmed. Right back to reality for that lot.
They blamed it on COVID and not having a defined route back to fans going to matches. I'm sure they would have passed the owners test it's such a low bar. Pivot to buy United haha.
 

Damien

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Pulled out? Or just gave up to save face at not passing the Premier league a owners test? Perhaps there was something in the TV piracy stuff after all. We need to get some Newcastle forum reactions in here. I have seen plenty online talking themselves up when this takeover wasn't even confirmed. Right back to reality for that lot.

 

Chairman Steve

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Cant wait to see how True Geordie backpedals his way out of this one, after his stance was basically “who cares if they commit multiple human rights violations... we can buy Mbappe now!”
 
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