Scoring Goals

[Sea-Cow]

Rashford could certainly be better. But he could also be a lot worse. He’s 21 and for me, the second best young striker in the world after Mbappe.

In any case, like every other player, he would benefit from being part of a collective rather than a group of talented individuals expected to win games. Last season we played like a unit for 10 games and he was sensational in that period.

But ultimately, we won’t be able to beat City and Liverpool until we organise better. And we’d be easily guaranteed a top 4 place with even our current squad if we switched coaches with either of those I think. A team with Rashford, Martial, Pogba, AWB, Maguire and DDG shouldn’t have Wolverhampton Wanderers saying they hope to finish above them. We need to get the best out of the group we have. Then add more talent to that. I suspect we are more likely to try and get the likes of Sancho for huge money and if he comes into Carrington and asks his coaches what they want him to do, they will say ‘be brilliant’. We need more than this.

Haha wow I don't think I can agree more with your last part, and disagree more with the first part!!

Just off the top of my head I thought of Gabriel Jesus and Tammy Abraham as two young strikers I would definitely rather have than Rashford. I'm sure I could come up with a list of others if I gave it a few minutes. He has the occasional brilliant moment, and the rest is awful.

And I am guessing those 10 games you mention are the streak when Ole took over? I think our performances in those ten games were just as disjointed and terrible as the rest of his tenure, we just got extremely lucky with the results. Look at the 1-0 win away to Leicester. Rashford scored a great goal, and we were horrible and completely toothless for the rest of the game. Same at Spurs. Brilliant run and finish from Rashford, no denying that, but then we couldn't put two passes together and Spurs somehow failed to score despite having about 10 clear chances inside our box!

 

[HowYouDoin]

Its pretty simple.
Lukaku wasnt the right answer.
Martial and Rashford could be. I agree with not buying another striker and telling those 2 we want them to be elite goal scorers and carry us.
Howeever if theyre not up to it, it is what it is. Then we gotta find players that are but I dont mind giving them a full season to make that assesment.

 

[Leftback99]

Like 70% of our problems - comes down to poor coaching, and has done for years.

We need to be far more progressive in our set-up. We don’t have a style, and we don’t have the players good enough to get away with not knowing what we are doing. Said for years, but this whole ‘play without fear’ and ‘we should be attacking teams’ is far, far from good enough. People drool over City or Liverpool’s players, but for me, those teams make all their players look better than they are due to the collective. They create far more chances due to how they set up. We haven’t moved past ‘Rashy and Martial are top young players’ so we just need to ‘give them confidence’. The fact Sterling or Zinchenko get in behind so many times a game is not down to them just being given confidence.

We have been left behind on the touchline for a long time. People don’t realise it, and as a result, we ALWAYS need ‘better players’. However, in a million years we could not have taken City apart the way Norwich did last week. That match was won by their coach. Yet we are still moaning that even Rashford isn’t good enough according to most.

I’ll say this, as it stands, we would need a squad of players about 30% better than City’s players in order to beat them to a league title. Equal talent and they would wipe the floor with us.

We don’t create enough chances because we have average coaching.

I'll expect Norwich in the top 6 then if its all down to the coach and he's so good. Why does it never happen that the top 6 gets broken into if its so much down to coaching and less so the quality of players?

City had a shocker defensively on all 3 goals. They would be expected to win comfortably if the game was played again tomorrow.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Most on here is writing off Rashford. Most of the same people think that Sterling is the best player in the league. 2015-2016 Sterling scored 11 goals in all comps. 2016-2017 Sterling scored 10 goals in all comps. Sterling was 21 in 2015 Rashford is currently 21.

 

[Hammondo]

I'll expect Norwich in the top 6 then if its all down to the coach and he's so good. Why does it never happen that the top 6 gets broken into if its so much down to coaching and less so the quality of players?

City had a shocker defensively on all 3 goals. They would be expected to win comfortably if the game was played again tomorrow.

City are bad defensively though.

 

[Leftback99]

City are bad defensively though.

Why though if their coaching is so good?

Is it maybe because their defenders aren't that good at defending, like our our forwards aren't that good at attacking?

 

[Leftback99]

Most on here is writing off Rashford. Most of the same people think that Sterling is the best player in the league. 2015-2016 Sterling scored 11 goals in all comps. 2016-2017 Sterling scored 10 goals in all comps. Sterling was 21 in 2015 Rashford is currently 21.

Welbeck scored 9 in the league at 21 but he's seen by most as a joke on here.

 

[Sea-Cow]

Why though if their coaching is so good?

Is it maybe because their defenders aren't that good at defending, like our our forwards aren't that good at attacking?

I think they have a number of injuries, correct? And saying they are bad at defending is an overreaction to one result. They just kept a cleansheet on the road in the Champions League.

The Norwich result was an outlier.

 

[Leftback99]

I think they have a number of injuries, correct? And saying they are bad at defending is an overreaction to one result. They just kept a cleansheet on the road in the Champions League.

The Norwich result was an outlier.

Yes, having to bring in inferior players because of injuries means their defending suffers. Just like i'll be expecting very little from our attack with Martial and Pogba injured on Sunday.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Welbeck scored 9 in the league at 21 but he's seen by most as a joke on here.

I'm not saying that Rashford will make it but not being the finished article at 21 is hardly unusual. Time will tell if he has what it takes to become a top forward. Let's just give him the chance to grow.

 

[Greck]

Like 70% of our problems - comes down to poor coaching, and has done for years.

We need to be far more progressive in our set-up. We don’t have a style, and we don’t have the players good enough to get away with not knowing what we are doing. Said for years, but this whole ‘play without fear’ and ‘we should be attacking teams’ is far, far from good enough. People drool over City or Liverpool’s players, but for me, those teams make all their players look better than they are due to the collective. They create far more chances due to how they set up. We haven’t moved past ‘Rashy and Martial are top young players’ so we just need to ‘give them confidence’. The fact Sterling or Zinchenko get in behind so many times a game is not down to them just being given confidence.

We have been left behind on the touchline for a long time. People don’t realise it, and as a result, we ALWAYS need ‘better players’. However, in a million years we could not have taken City apart the way Norwich did last week. That match was won by their coach. Yet we are still moaning that even Rashford isn’t good enough according to most.

I’ll say this, as it stands, we would need a squad of players about 30% better than City’s players in order to beat them to a league title. Equal talent and they would wipe the floor with us.

We don’t create enough chances because we have average coaching.

Pretty good post. Pep and Klopp have raised the bar. It's no longer about amassing talent equal to or better than the competition. If SAF was still here even he would have had to revert to our 2009 type excellence instead of that zombie football we were playing in the last 2 years before he retired. Talent+system will always beat talent alone. We can buy all the Maguires and AWBs but we aren't outdoing Klopp if we don't find a playing template. Relying on moments of individual brilliance isn't beating Pep and Klopp any time soon.

 

[Leftback99]

I'm not saying that Rashford will make it but not being the finished article at 21 is hardly unusual. Time will tell if he has what it takes to become a top forward. Let's just give him the chance to grow.

I'm not saying he wont either but right now he's seen by most as our best forward despite never proving that he's a reliable source of goals.

It's difficult think of any teams in the last few years that scored a lot of goals without having a top class finisher and/or creator. We have neither.

Consistently the top scorers since 13/14 have been Liverpool (Suarez, Coutinho, Salah, Firmino etc), City (don't need to explain), Arsenal (Sanchez, Ozil) and Spurs (Kane, Eriksen). Our best came in Lukaku's first season.

 

[Rozay]

Haha wow I don't think I can agree more with your last part, and disagree more with the first part!!

Just off the top of my head I thought of Gabriel Jesus and Tammy Abraham as two young strikers I would definitely rather have than Rashford. I'm sure I could come up with a list of others if I gave it a few minutes. He has the occasional brilliant moment, and the rest is awful.

And I am guessing those 10 games you mention are the streak when Ole took over? I think our performances in those ten games were just as disjointed and terrible as the rest of his tenure, we just got extremely lucky with the results. Look at the 1-0 win away to Leicester. Rashford scored a great goal, and we were horrible and completely toothless for the rest of the game. Same at Spurs. Brilliant run and finish from Rashford, no denying that, but then we couldn't put two passes together and Spurs somehow failed to score despite having about 10 clear chances inside our box!

Regarding your last paragraph, that’s not quite how I remember it. Admittedly, I can’t remember all of the detail from the Leicester game, but I don’t recall us hanging on so to speak. Against Spurs, we had more than enough chances to put the game beyond them before their rally in the last 30 minutes. We were comfortably the better team in the first half, and we had another 3 good chances at the start of the second half. Pogba forced 3 good saves from Lloris, and he really should have scored at least one of those, they were easy chances, one being a one-on-one where he tried to lob him and Lloris tipped it over. Martial also forced a good save too. Spurs were always going to have a go, they are another top team on their own patch.

 

[Buster15]

Football is a relatively simple game; score more goals than the opposition.
To score a goal, you normally have to create the opportunity.
And that is where we struggle badly. Because we are not clever enough to create sufficient opportunities.
And to compound the problem we have sold our main striker.
Now. If I was referring to a struggling League 1 or 2 side then that would be understandable.
But no. I am referring to on of the richest sides in the world.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I'm not saying he wont either but right now he's seen by most as our best forward despite never proving that he's a reliable source of goals.

It's difficult think of any teams in the last few years that scored a lot of goals without having a top class finisher and/or creator. We have neither.

Consistently the top scorers since 13/14 have been Liverpool (Suarez, Coutinho, Salah, Firmino etc), City (don't need to explain), Arsenal (Sanchez, Ozil) and Spurs (Kane, Eriksen). Our best came in Lukaku's first season.

I'd say that Martial is our best forward at the moment but still is not the finished article either.

You can look at our front line one of two ways. If you want instant success then it's obvious that we need a more experienced striker at the cutting edge and the current forward line is not ready. If you are excited at the crop of young talent that we have and want to see these kids develop into something special then you might be more forgiving of Rashford's misses last night especially seeing as we won the game.

I know that going forward with a young strike force of Martial, Rashford, James and Greenwood is a massive gamble that may not pay off but I for one am willing to see were this gamble takes us. It's not going to be instant success and might never come to fruition but LVG's and Jose's crops of ready made players didn't bare much fruit either. So let's give youth a chance without being over critical of the younger players when they don't hit top form.

 

[Leftback99]

I'd say that Martial is our best forward at the moment but still is not the finished article either.

You can look at our front line one of two ways. If you want instant success then it's obvious that we need a more experienced striker at the cutting edge and the current forward line is not ready. If you are excited at the crop of young talent that we have and want to see these kids develop into something special then you might be more forgiving of Rashford's misses last night especially seeing as we won the game.

I know that going forward with a young strike force of Martial, Rashford, James and Greenwood is a massive gamble that may not pay off but I for one am willing to see were this gamble takes us. It's not going to be instant success and might never come to fruition but LVG's and Jose's crops of ready made players didn't bare much fruit either. So let's give youth a chance without being over critical of the younger players when they don't hit top form.

I agree Martial is the best we have, him being injured is a big problem because it's such a drop off to the others.

I'm happy with Martial, Rashford and James as i can see their potential, also Greenwood. I think a top number 10 is the key signing if we are sticking with 4-2-3-1. However currently it's a very limited selection that isn't going to score loads of goals no matter how they are 'coached'.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I agree Martial is the best we have, him being injured is a big problem because it's such a drop off to the others.

I'm happy with Martial, Rashford and James as i can see their potential, also Greenwood. I think a top number 10 is the key signing if we are sticking with 4-2-3-1. However currently it's a very limited selection that isn't going to score loads of goals no matter how they are 'coached'.

No it's not and either we get angry that we're not going to win anything this season or we accept that we are building with youth.

 

[Hammondo]

Why though if their coaching is so good?

Is it maybe because their defenders aren't that good at defending, like our our forwards aren't that good at attacking?

Bad defenders.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

... And that is where we struggle badly. Because we are not clever enough to create sufficient opportunities.
And to compound the problem we have sold our main striker.

We sold him because he wanted to be a starter and wasn't happy on the bench.
He wasn't a starter because he consistently lost possession and prevented us creating goal scoring opportunities.
To force his move away, either Lukaku, or his agents, depressed team morale with their actions.

What would you have done - played Lukaku as a starter, but with a different style? Hoof ball?

 

[Buster15]

We sold him because he wanted to be a starter and wasn't happy on the bench.
He wasn't a starter because he consistently lost possession and prevented us creating goal scoring opportunities.
To force his move away, either Lukaku, or his agents, depressed team morale with their actions.

What would you have done - played Lukaku as a starter, but with a different style? Hoof ball?

No. Not at all. I was just making the point that we will struggle to score mainly because of a lack of creativity. The fact that Lukaku has not been replaced only compounds the problem.

 

[Smores]

Wasn't scoring more goals supposed to be one of the main benefits of appointing Ole and the biggest complaint of our previous manager?

More and more of my united supporting friends are getting fed up of our tumescent displays. It's a poor excuse to say oh we just need to wait another year.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Wasn't scoring more goals supposed to be one of the main benefits of appointing Ole and the biggest complaint of our previous manager?

More and more of my united supporting friends are getting fed up of our tumescent displays. It's a poor excuse to say oh we just need to wait another year.

It’s clearly the players let’s be honest. The quality of our attackers just isn’t high enough.

swap our attack with Liverpool’s or city’s and it would be different.

 

[Hawks2008]

You know we're in a sorry state when our season relies on Martial and Rashford finally becoming consistent after playing nearly 200 games each for the club.

 

[Lee565]

If we had just kept lukaku I would be confident we would get top 4 this season, i dont know who's dumb planning it was to go into this season with a rookie youth team forward and 2 inconsistent young strikers but if we screw up not getting champions league football this season then they should 100% be sacked.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

If we had just kept lukaku I would be confident we would get top 4 this season, i dont know who's dumb planning it was to go into this season with a rookie youth team forward and 2 inconsistent young strikers but if we screw up not getting champions league football this season then they should 100% be sacked.

Not sure Ed can sack himself.

 

[Lee565]

Not sure Ed can sack himself.

Still think Solskjear had a big part to play in it as well, though Woodward is not blameless either seeing as he was happy to block transfer in and out of The club in the past so he could have done the same with the lukaku transfer.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Still think Solskjear had a big part to play in it as well, though Woodward is not blameless either seeing as he was happy to block transfer in and out of The club in the past so he could have done the same with the lukaku transfer.

This is the argument I can’t get behind.

Why would a rookie manager hamper his own chances of succeeding?
We clearly tried signing a striker at the death so sounds like there a plan that failed and that can only be Mr Ed.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Still think Solskjear had a big part to play in it as well, though Woodward is not blameless either seeing as he was happy to block transfer in and out of The club in the past so he could have done the same with the lukaku transfer.

So you think Woodward is a sensible person while Ole is a fool who would shoot himself in the foot, just for the kicks.

 

[Lee565]

So you think Woodward is a sensible person while Ole is a fool who would shoot himself in the foot, just for the kicks.

No I'm not saying woodward is a sensible person as I believe both have a part to play in it.

This is the argument I can’t get behind.

Why would a rookie manager hamper his own chances of succeeding?
We clearly tried signing a striker at the death so sounds like there a plan that failed and that can only be Mr Ed.

Maybe Solskjear was being being naive to think he could trust the likes of lingard, rashford, martial, james and greenwood to be enough firepower and didnt want to keep or buy a striker that would hamper how he wanted a more supposed free flowing attack even though getting rid of lukaku has made no difference in being better in attack.

 

[Greck]

If we had just kept lukaku I would be confident we would get top 4 this season, i dont know who's dumb planning it was to go into this season with a rookie youth team forward and 2 inconsistent young strikers but if we screw up not getting champions league football this season then they should 100% be sacked.

Nah our problems scoring from open play existed when Lukaku was still here. In fact he almost made it worse because of the poor fit. A poacher in a team that barely creates the kind of clear cut opportunities he's only good at finishing

 

[The Firestarter]

Most on here is writing off Rashford. Most of the same people think that Sterling is the best player in the league. 2015-2016 Sterling scored 11 goals in all comps. 2016-2017 Sterling scored 10 goals in all comps. Sterling was 21 in 2015 Rashford is currently 21.

It's one look in their general play at 21 to see the gap of ability between the two. Otherwise you can make this about every superstar that has had 11 goals at that age.

 

[Greck]

This is the argument I can’t get behind.

Why would a rookie manager hamper his own chances of succeeding?
We clearly tried signing a striker at the death so sounds like there a plan that failed and that can only be Mr Ed.

Doubt it. The only striker we were linked with was an opportunistic one and it came about incidental to selling Lukaku. I think Ole didn't want specific positions he wanted specific names. It's still to his credit that he didn't hit the panic button like his predecessors who would have signed the next overpriced future deadwood

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Doubt it. The only striker we were linked with was an opportunistic one and it came about incidental to selling Lukaku. I think Ole didn't want specific positions he wanted specific names. It's still to his credit that he didn't hit the panic button like his predecessors would have and signed the next overpriced future deadwood

There were many names, some fancy like dybala (that our superstar midfielder was gonna help us get yet hasn’t helped us get any of his mates thus far but that’s a different arguement)

What benefit is it to him to have no option versus Lukaku as back up?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

No I'm not saying woodward is a sensible person as I believe both have a part to play in it.



Maybe Solskjear was being being naive to think he could trust the likes of lingard, rashford, martial, james and greenwood to be enough firepower and didnt want to keep or buy a striker that would hamper how he wanted a more supposed free flowing attack even though getting rid of lukaku has made no difference in being better in attack.

Maybe, doubt it.

All managers are selfish and want the best options. Can’t see Ole in a time sensitive role playing the long game. If it was me I’d have been demanding messi, Ronaldo or lewondoski

 

[MrSingh2002]

There's not much interchanging of positions on the pitch or short sharp passing in the final third. If and when that happens I believe we would actually become a decent team.

 

[Greck]

Regarding our lack of identity, you know what comes to mind? That clip from Molde's training where he's bollocking players for passing in the box and tells them to just Shooot! I don't think he has a system and it shows when we have to break down teams

 

[Suedesi]

This is shocking. There's absolutely no pattern to our attacks, no wing play, no overlaps, huge spaces in midfield, everyone seems to be playing for themselves.

More and more that Chelsea game looks like an outlier.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Absolutely. Been the case for years though. Our forward players are unbelievably wasteful, whether it be finishing or final ball.

Also, our runs always seem so out of sync. They either don’t happen enough or the players on the ball don’t make the passes.

Stephen Dooley doing ok for them, former cork city player and one of the reasons cork aren’t good now.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Can't score enough goal if the front 4 consist Mata, Pereira or Lingard.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I'm not sure how this club thought we would score goals when we were already struggling for goals and decided to sell our top scoring striker without replacing him.

We're incredibly lucky that James has shown he can chip in with a goal - especially as scoring goals wasn't exactly something he was renowned for at Swansea.