Serie A 90's Draft Round 1 - Sjor Bepo/MJJ vs Enigma_87/The Red Viper

[2mufc0]

PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING: voting should be based on player performances in Serie A/Coppa Italia from the 90/91 season to 99/00. Performances outside this timeframe or other competitions do not count.

TEAM SJOR BEPO/MJJ

VS

TEAM ENIGMA_87/THE RED VIPER

SJOR BEPO/MJJ TACTICS

Pretty much a classic 442 diamond, built around two Serie A legends in Alessandro Del Piero and Seba Veron.
In the back we have Francesco Toldo in goal, goalkeeper of the year in Serie A for 99/00 season. Proven centerback pairing in AS Roma legend Aldair and his partner in crime Antonio Carlos. In the same season Toldo won his award they had third best defence in the league, conceding just 34 goals(Lazio 33, Juve 20).
Both wingbacks will get a lot of protection from the midfield so both Helveg and Heinrich can bomb up and down whole game and stretch the play as much as possible.

Gigi Di Biagio plays his natural role of a holding midfielder, very good reading of the game defensive wise, tactically astute and classy on the ball.
Conte will play classic b2b role while Katanec will be in a much more defensive role to offer protection as well as balance as we have Del Piero and Veron that like to lean a bit more to the left so having Katanec behind them will be a great asset as he will play a disciplined game and keep things as simple as possible in possession.
Like in most teams in the 90s, our star man is playing as number 10 and there we have one of the best midfield players in the world in the late 90s, at some point probably and the best. Pretty much everything you want from your number 10, at least what id want. Great - all round game, under pressure, hold up play, passing, creativity, capable of magic. One thing he lacks a bit is goals but no worries there as we have enough firepower up front.

Del Piero in his best role as left sided second striker with a proper number 10 behind. Pace, trickery, great on the ball, goals - proper class act, both on and off the pitch. His partner in crime will be Daniel Fonseca. Very complete striker, capable of both playing as a proper 9 with good hold up play as well as running at and behind defences. Proper menace for Napoli and for us hopefully.


ENIGMA_87/THE RED VIPER TACTICS


Formation: 4-4-2 (fluid), transition to 4-3-3 when we have the ball, with Paulo Sergio, Vialli and Balbo main attacking threats.
Defensive line: normal
Style: very direct, fast tempo, interchanging positions in attack.

Player profiles and roles:
GK: Sebastiano Rossi - One of the best keepers in the pool. He was the record holder in Serie A for the longest unbeaten run with 929 minutes to his name, only recently beaten by Buffon. Won 5 Serie A titles in the 90's and was integral part of one of the best defensive lines in history.
LB: Branco - Excellent going forward, whilst solid at the back, he had 3 seasons at Genoa in the early 90's topped by a great performance in 90/91 season when Genoa finished 4th - the only team unbeaten at home. The Brazilian left-back added power and devastating ability at set pieces scoring one of the goals of the season against rivals Sampdoria away.
RB: Moreno Mannini - Samp legend, he was typical Italian full back from the 90's. Rock solid in defence, capable of filling in also in the heart of defence, he formed an excellent pairing with Lombardo at Samp winning 1 Serie A title and 1 Italian Cup (4 in total) in the 90's.
CB: Guiseppe Bergomi - one of the greatest defenders not only in the pool but also in history he was a defensive colossal - tight marker, agile, excellent in the air and a true leader on the pitch.
CB: Riccardo Ferri - A partner in crime he formed a great partnership with Bergomi in that Inter side. Alike Bergomi he was one of the top defenders in his time, also winning 45 caps for Italy in his career, albeit the stiff competition some of the best defenders at the time.
CM: Dunga - In the early 90's Dunga was at his physical peak, playing his trade in Italy. He will provide the defensive stability in midfield, excellent eye for a pass and high energy to combine with Matthaus and form an awesome midfield pair in the center of the park.
CM - Lothar Matthäus - was a gargantuan footballer. The term 'complete player' is frittered around too often, but Matthäus could rightly lay claim to that. Equally adept in his own penalty box as in the opposition’s, Matthäus was a box-to-box midfielder capable of scoring numerous types of goals in the air or with either foot. He was quick, powerful, elusive and technically supreme. Matthäus played one of the best season in history from midfield in 90/91 - scoring 16 goals in Serie A and another one in the cup. Voted FIFA World Player of the Year - in 91 (not based on his WC form the year prior).
LM/LWF: Paulo Sergio - Paulo Sergio is one of the most versatile players in the team and capable of operating both in attack/wide and in midfield. He played for Roma for two seasons in the late 90's forming a great trio with Totti and Delvecchio and scoring 24 goals in 64 games. He only missed 4 games in those two seasons. He'll be a constant threat to the opposition defence and look to attack the box when Vialli goes into pockets in his favorite left side.
RWF: Attilio Lombardo - The ‘bald eagle’ was one of the best Italian players of the 90s. An excellent provider from wide his delightful skills were a joy to watch and became a cult hero for Samp. He forms a proven partnership on the right along with Moreno Mannini.
SS - Gianluca Vialli - If you’re not one of the twice-in-a-millennium talents who can do both, there is still plenty of kudos to be found in settling somewhere in the middle. To do so requires an element of a jack-of-all-trades skill set: speed, power, technique, enough height to be a focal point of an attack, not so much that your centre of gravity becomes a weakness. To be important enough to your team to be picked even when the goals dry up; then repay the faith with a finish so emphatic that it’s remembered more than a hundred tap-ins.

If you could zoom in right to the very centre of the great-goalscorer-scorer-of-great-goals continuum, you will probably find either a bubble perm or a shiny dome. Both, at some point, have belonged to Gianluca Vialli. Top scorer in a Serie A winning side he was instrumental for the greatest Samp side in history. A scorer of great goals and a great goalscorer - Vialli had it all.

CF - Abel Balbo - An exceptional striker, with a killer instinct in front of the goal and excellent movement to create space for others. Balbo scored 117 goals in 253 games when the league was at its absolute best defensive wise. A notoriously consistent goalscorer he'll work like a treat alongside Vialli.

Tactics and advantages:
Defence - Flat back four consisting of two top defenders in the heart of it and excellent full backs in the defensive phase in Branco and Mannini. Branco will be the more attacking one, doubling Paulo Sergio on the left and creating numerical advantage from that side. Mannini and Lombardo are really in their zone forming the already proven right flank like in Samp.

Midfield - with the exception of Davids/Rijkaard in the center, I don't think it will be a bold claim that our team has probably one of the best central midfield in the pool. Both Dunga and Matthaus are brilliant individuals but they are also excellent tandem both stylistically and in terms of quality. Lombardo and Paulo Sergio will terrorize the opposition full backs, stretching the defensive line and providing chances for Vialli and Balbo in the box.

Attack: Two of the best goalscorers in the 90's - Abel Balbo and Vialli will lead the line.Vialli will be on the move and in a free role and running into pockets whilst also finishing chances himself. Balbo is a natural goalscorer who wouldn't need many chances to make a difference up top.

Advantages:
Top defensive line. I think we have an advantage in defence, especially lead by Bergomi. A proven pair in the heart of defence comes with two top full backs on the back of sensational performances in a single season - (Branco for Genoa and Mannini for Samp).

Midfield - Matthaus would most likely boss the midfield, considering he's the outstanding midfielder both in the game and in the pool. During the 90/91 season he was at his absolute top in both phases, whilst also providing the difference in most occasions. Dunga is a great foil to provide the stage and also bring solidity at the back and protecting the back four.

Variety in attack - Our team will be a constant threat both on the wings and through the middle. Paulo Sergio and Lombardo's trickery and pace would be too good for the opposition to neutralize constantly and we have top goalscorers in the box with additional threat from Matthaus from deep.

AdP against Bergomi - No doubt Sjor/MJJ star man is del Piero, but he comes in the zone where our best defender - Bergomi operates. Bergomi is well suited for the threat and probably one of the best fits to counter del Piero threat.

Dunga vs Veron - Veron was instrumental for Lazio in their Serie A winning form, but again we have a very good fit here in Dunga to limit his presence. Dunga is top notch midfielder when it comes to the defensive phase and with his unlimited energy will frustrate Veron operating in his zone.

2 on 1 on both flanks - Most likely the opposition will play a diamond formation and with Mannini/Lombardo and Sergio/Branco flanks we will have the opportunity to outnumber the opposition defenders wide, which will lead to opening spaces in the middle when MJJ/Sjor midfielders help out.

 

[2mufc0]

Good luck @Šjor Bepo @MJJ @Enigma_87 @The Red Viper .

 

[Enigma_87]

Thanks @2mufc0 for setting it up!

Good luck @MJJ @Šjor Bepo !

 

[harms]

Great teams.

 

[idmanager]

Can't see Enigma/ Red Tiger formation pic

 

[Enigma_87]

Gianluca Vialli – The serial trophy drought-ending striker who was born in a castle

The Italian conquered Serie A before going on to become an icon of both Chelsea and the Premier League
IT'S one of football’s manufactured mutual exclusivities. A forward can be remembered for being a great goalscorer or a scorer of great goals. A few obvious individuals could argue they have conquered both ends of that spectrum - Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo’s scrapbooks are not dominated by bundling home at the back post, after all - but otherwise it’s a striker’s struggle not to be polarised either way.

If you’re not one of the twice-in-a-millennium talents who can do both, there is still plenty of kudos to be found in settling somewhere in the middle. To do so requires an element of a jack-of-all-trades skill set: speed, power, technique, enough height to be a focal point of an attack, not so much that your centre of gravity becomes a weakness. To be important enough to your team to be picked even when the goals dry up; then repay the faith with a finish so emphatic that it’s remembered more than a hundred tap-ins.

If you could zoom in right to the very centre of the great-goalscorer-scorer-of-great-goals continuum, you will probably find either a bubble perm or a shiny dome. Both, at some point, have belonged to Gianluca Vialli.

Spoiler

Vialli began his footballing life as something of an anomaly. Rather than the streets, he grew up in a 60-room castle paid for by the construction millions of his father, becoming one the presumably very few footballers whose childhood home can be reviewed on TripAdvisor - a solid 3.5 out of 5, if you’re wondering. “There was a courtyard at the back of my house,” Vialli wrote in his fascinating book The Italian Job, “with garages on opposite ends [that] served as convenient goals.” That was just in the winter months, obviously, after which he would then practise bicycle kicks in the grassy meadows around the family’s country getaway.

A fan of Inter, and an admirer from afar of Johan Cruyff, Vialli spent his teenage years with his local club Cremonese, scoring in numbers rather less spectacular than his voluminous hair.

"I cannot say I was a poor boy, so there were some who thought that I was a spoilt brat," Vialli recalls of the Cremonese dressing room. "I could sense an atmosphere, but after a while I won them over because of my commitment."

Having made his debut as a 16-year-old in Serie C, Vialli was about to take on the top flight with his hometown club in 1984, only for Sampdoria to step in and propose a swap deal involving Alviero Chiorri, who had failed to dovetail up front with a young Roberto Mancini. Vialli went to Genoa and, by the end of his first season in Serie A, had helped the club win their first ever trophy, the Coppa Italia. Their young strikers weren’t quite the driving force yet: a 31-year-old Trevor Francis, no less, was Sampdoria’s top scorer with 15.

Vialli, yet to become the muscular final-third presence of his prime, was busy turning Sampdoria into an Italian knock-off of the Crazy Gang. After Graeme Souness had pushed him into a lake in his club suit, Vialli responded by cutting up the three-time European Cup winner’s trousers, squirting shaving foam into his shoes and dusting some itching powder into his underwear. “I never saw him move around so quickly,” Vialli recalled to the Observer in 2002, but it was his lesser-known playful side that would reportedly come back to haunt him later on his career.

By the turn of the decade, Vialli had grown - quite literally - into a serious goalscorer. Four successive seasons as Sampdoria’s top scorer coincided with their Serie A emergence under the well-travelled Yugoslav coach Vujadin Boskov, which also brought a further couple of Coppa Italia wins and, in 1989/90 the European Cup Winners’ Cup.

Vialli scored seven times as Sampdoria dispatched Borussia Dortmund and Monaco on the road to the final in Gothenburg. Two more against Anderlecht, both in extra time, secured his club’s graduation to another level; they were now perfectly placed to challenge the Milan clubs and Diego Maradona’s Napoli for the title.

I gemelli del gol - the “goal twins” - were also ready to deliver. Entering their mid-twenties, Vialli and Mancini had scored 80 times between them in the previous two seasons of eminently promising domestic and European success. But it was Vialli, the more natural no.9, who was particularly primed to make a definitive Serie A breakthrough.


Jurgen Klinsmann and Lothar Matthaus at Inter and Juventus’ Roberto Baggio were in exceptional form, but Vialli’s 19 league goals were enough to secure him the Capocannoniere. Sampdoria went the entire second half of the season unbeaten, their biggest statements of intent a pair of 4-1 wins against Napoli, which included the sort of immaculately executed volley that would become Vialli’s occasional calling card.

Spoiler

Sampdoria’s swift but careful trajectory seemed almost too neat: domestic cup success, consolidation among the Serie A elite, a European trophy and then the Scudetto itself. In 1991/92, they faded to sixth in the league, but their eggs had already been thrown wholesale into the ultimate bucket. Vialli scored six times on the way to the European Cup final against Barcelona at Wembley, but he - and Sampdoria - hit the wall.

Spoiler

"It was my saddest night in football," he said. "I had glorious chances to win the match but missed them. I don't think my head was right...I was thinking of the future, not the present."

That future, already sealed even before kick-off at Wembley, was a world-record £12.5m move to Juventus. It was the fifth time in eight years that an Italian club had made a player the most expensive of all time, but it was threatening to become something of a poisoned chalice: Vialli’s move was sandwiched between Milan’s ill-fated investments in Jean-Pierre Papin and Gianluigi Lentini.

“When you leave, you will realise what being loved means” read one banner at the Stadio Luigi Ferraris as Vialli brought the curtain down on his Sampdoria career with a goal against, of all clubs, Cremonese. If that wasn’t quite melodramatic enough, another stated simply: “Sell Vialli and we will kill ourselves”.

From the comforts of his Sampdoria strike partnership, Vialli was now thrust into the ultra-competitive Juventus frontline: Roberto Baggio, Paolo Di Canio, Fabrizio Ravanelli and Pierluigi Casiraghi were fighting for centre stage, a year ahead of the arrival of another prince-in-waiting, Alessandro del Piero. It was more than enough to stall Vialli’s momentum.

Injuries played their part in his first two seasons in Turin - a broken foot among them - but, as Giovanni Trapattoni wrestled with how to shoehorn that attacking talent into his team, Vialli was becoming the fall-guy. A scathing end-of-year article in La Repubblica lamented the “45 billion lira invested in goals that do not arrive”, while Trapattoni was adamant that Vialli could adapt into midfield. "He knows how to press, he is smart, he passes the ball first, in short he is a born midfielder. He just needs to get used to the role.”

17 goals in two seasons, many of them wasted on cannon fodder on the way to winning the UEFA Cup in 1993, justified neither his fee nor his manager’s tactics. Then came Marcello Lippi, and the transformation was immediate. Once again, poor old Cremonese felt the full force of Vialli at his explosive best, punished at home and away by the same rovesciato that the boy Luca had perfected on the meadows of Cremona. Anything around head-height in the box was liable to be propelled emphatically beyond a helpless goalkeeper.

Spoiler

Physically, Vialli was soon a changed man - and it wasn’t just his hairstyle. “Sorry, but this Vialli when he arrived at Juventus was fat like a turkey, now he is thin, beautiful, runs and marks” Juventus owner Giovanni Agnelli reportedly told Lippi. “What did you do to him?” There were whispers (which eventually turned into a judicial inquiry) of doping but, even though Vialli recalls the club’s “well-stocked pharmacy”, nothing was proven.

Meanwhile, the shaven-headed Vialli 2.0 was excelling at what Lippi’s fitness coaches called “the Delta”, a punishing training drill based around a series of twenty short sprints. Already a voracious worker, he was now well equipped to fit into Lippi’s plan for the Juventus frontline. A 4-3-3 system accommodated Vialli, Ravanelli and one of Baggio and Del Piero, on the proviso that they would run their coglioni off to help unburden the midfield behind them.

The fruits of that labour were immense. Vialli took care of business with 17 Serie A goals (and 22 overall), half of Ravanelli’s 30-goal haul came in the cups, while Del Piero and Baggio chipped in with another 25 between them. Juve’s first title in almost a decade was won by ten points, the Coppa Italia soon followed, but a treble (with a little “T”) was scuppered by Parma over two legs in the final of the UEFA Cup, despite a quintessentially Vialli goal: pulling out to the side, striding onto a bouncing ball and absolutely larruping it into the nearest available top corner.

Spoiler: Vialli gif

Unlike Sampdoria four years earlier, Juventus were able to push on to the summit. Baggio may have left for Milan, and would win the Serie A title, but that allowed Del Piero’s influence to grow. Juventus sailed through the group stage of the Champions League, before making rather harder work of Real Madrid in the quarters and Nantes in the semis (Vialli scoring, vitally, home and away) to set up the final in Rome against holders Ajax.

Vialli, no longer carrying the bulk of the goalscoring responsibilities, led the line tirelessly once more - this time as captain - and Juventus prevailed on penalties.

A few weeks before his 32nd birthday, he had his hands on the prize everyone wanted. Plus a chat with James Richardson on Gazzetta:


A top-level career characterised by good timing now needed a suitable third - and possibly final - act. For a 32-year-old striker, still in decent nick, ready to take advantage of the game-changing Bosman ruling and with a surname highly conducive to being exclaimed by John Motson on Match of the Day, there was only one option.

Vialli was already a professed Anglophile - and fascinated by London in particular. His decision to become a headline act in the Premier League’s glorious mid-90s foreign influx was a simple one, save for an offer from Rangers that, financially, blew everyone else out of the water. Tempting as it might have been to form a devastatingly suave strikeforce alongside Ally McCoist- with ammunition supplied by Brian Laudrup and a flying Paul Gascoigne - Stamford Bridge was more persuasive.

Vialli’s arrival was straight out of the Foreign Influx playbook. “Here I can walk down the street with my girlfriend”, he told the Observer. “I can go shopping, sit in a pub or go out to dinner and nobody asks me for an autograph. That's a dream. After 15 years of worrying, I'm finally a free man.”

Further proof would hit Vialli soon enough that Serie A was on another planet to a Premier League still weaning itself off midweek boozing.

“I was shocked. Nothing was comparable to Italy. Even when I was undergoing the medical. There were worse structures, less professionalisation. We had two days off a week and we never did double training sessions. Italian football was from another world at that time. I had to adapt and that’s what I did.”

^^

A great piece on Vialli, for those interested.

 

[2mufc0]

Can't see Enigma/ Red Tiger formation pic

Can anyone else confirm this?

It's displaying for me.

 

[Enigma_87]

Can't see Enigma/ Red Tiger formation pic

Can you try to refresh mate? It's showing for me.

 

[idmanager]

Actually imgur seems down at my place. Should show up in a while I guess.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Ah a classic matchup. Enigma's side is setup very aggressive while Sjor has a classic Serie A compact tactic going on that's best suited to handle Lothar imo. Tough to call as both sides have a good balance. Pre-injury Del Piero seems perfect for this counter and I can see him causing a lot of damage against an aggressive tactic. But then Lombardo and Sergio should have Sjor's full backs pinned back fairly often and there might be a struggle to initiate the counter every time. This might come down to some individual brilliance

 

[idmanager]

Bergomi and Dunga might be perfect to counter Del Piero and Veron, but Enigma/TRV's strength in Matthaus and Dunga is also well countered by the hard working diamond.

Discussion around the lesser known players would win this game for me.

 

[Enigma_87]

Bergomi and Dunga might be perfect to counter Del Piero and Veron, but Enigma/TRV's strength in Matthaus and Dunga is also well countered by the hard working diamond.

Discussion around the lesser known players would win this game for me.

Yeah, that's fair enough mate, but we still have two match winners on the pitch in Vialli and Balbo and excellent wingers - hence not very much reliant only on Matthaus to make the difference.

In a narrow 4-4-2 diamond we can also utilize the flanks and double up the opposition full backs, naturally the side midfielders will help so still Matthaus would have some joy.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Thanks @2mufc0 for setting it up!

Good luck @MJJ @Šjor Bepo !

Likewise, great team btw
Will comment in 30 minutes when i get home.

 

[The Red Viper]

Good Luck, @Šjor Bepo @MJJ !

 

[The Red Viper]

Ah a classic matchup. Enigma's side is setup very aggressive while Sjor has a classic Serie A compact tactic going on that's best suited to handle Lothar imo. Tough to call as both sides have a good balance. Pre-injury Del Piero seems perfect for this counter and I can see him causing a lot of damage against an aggressive tactic. But then Lombardo and Sergio should have Sjor's full backs pinned back fairly often and there might be a struggle to initiate the counter every time. This might come down to some individual brilliance

Aye. Sjor and MJJ have a great team.

A couple of points I want to address though.

AdP is up against Bergomi and to an extent Mannini here.

Bergomi is one of the best defenders of all time. And is probably the best defender along with Thuram to deal with someone like AdP. AdP was a master at dragging the CBs out of their position and put them in places where they weren't comfortable defending against one-on-ones. Bergomi though was one of the best markers of all time and his experience of playing RB would help a lot against someone of AdP's ilk. Now, I am not saying Bergomi would completely take AdP out of the game or anything but with help from Mannini, who was a very solid defensive minded full-back, we would do fairly well to restrict AdP's influence here.

Secondly, Heinrich wasn't exactly known for his defense. Lombardo would have the upper hand here, especially with Mannini overlapping occasionally to make it a 2 vs 1 situation out wide.

 

[The Red Viper]

Bergomi and Dunga might be perfect to counter Del Piero and Veron, but Enigma/TRV's strength in Matthaus and Dunga is also well countered by the hard working diamond.

Discussion around the lesser known players would win this game for me.

Vialli and Balbo are the key here. As is Paulo Sergio.

Helveg was a solid player but Paulo Sergio's pace and trickery combined with the marauding Branco would give Helveg all kinds of nightmares imo.

Also, Vialli was one of the most complete strikers in the 90s and one of the best in this pool. There was no real weakness in his game. He was quick, good hold-up play, linked up well with the other attackers and scored some absolute scorchers. He along with Balbo, who was an excellent finisher would thrive here with the service provided from the flanks by the likes of Lombardo, Paulo Sergio and Branco etc.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Two really strong teams.

Lovely 442 from Enigma/TRV. I still see Enigma struggling for possession here against that midfield diamond. I also doubt that claim that Dunga would be capable of limiting Veron here, considering Sjor/MJJ's superior numbers in the middle. They have to defend deep and I'd prefer a better passing player to partner either of Dunga/Matthaus, kinda like a Scholes to Keane. Nothing wrong with the combo, but feels a bit functional and could do with a bit more creativity. Someone with good long passing ability to feed the wingers on the counter would be better imo.

Great diamond from Sjor/MJJ. I see them struggling to contain opponents down both the flanks. They'd enjoy majority possession though. Veron feeding Del Piero is quite juicy.

To summarize I see this being a 3-2 contest with Enigma/Sjor sneaking a win due to a better back 4.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

ffs where to start...

 

[antohan]

Bergomi and Dunga might be perfect to counter Del Piero and Veron, but Enigma/TRV's strength in Matthaus and Dunga is also well countered by the hard working diamond.

Discussion around the lesser known players would win this game for me.

Agree, the key strengths are dealt with pretty well, bar arguably Vialli. But given the clusterfeck in the middle the question is which team will be able to impose itself on proceedings and that's where my Man of the Match is Attilio Lombardo, his Sampdoria link with Vialli making it a done and dusted affair as far as I am concerned.

It would be great if Enigma put some effort into that (good as the Vialli piece is), such an under the radar player - seeing as the term underrated draws random discussions.

I loved watching Lombardo play. Imagine seeing someone that looks like your Physics teacher being a footballer. He also ran with an awkward gait that made it even more obvious it was indeed your physics teacher on the pitch and not a professional athlete. And then when he celebrated he didn't just do it with the same passion an average fan would, he celebrated like your physics teacher who couldn't believe his luck and was sure this whole thing of being a successful professional footballer was just a dream and he may as well enjoy it before he woke up back in the real world.

Contrary to what the caricaturesque description may suggest, he did everything right. He tracked back, got stuck in, successfully dribbled people with little jazz or effort, probably aided by the defender laughing his bollocks off wondering what this geezer was doing on the pitch, passed, crossed, scored... Not particularly easy on the eye, not a machine either because he wore his heart on his sleeve, just a very very productive player.

 

[The Red Viper]

Two really strong teams.

Lovely 442 from Enigma/TRV. I still see Enigma struggling for possession here against that midfield diamond. I also doubt that claim that Dunga would be capable of limiting Veron here, considering Sjor/MJJ's superior numbers in the middle. They have to defend deep and I'd prefer a better passing player to partner either of Dunga/Matthaus, kinda like a Scholes to Keane. Nothing wrong with the combo, but feels a bit functional and could do with a bit more creativity. Someone with good long passing ability to feed the wingers on the counter would be better imo.

Great diamond from Sjor/MJJ. I see them struggling to contain opponents down both the flanks. They'd enjoy majority possession though. Veron feeding Del Piero is quite juicy.

To summarize I see this being a 3-2 contest with Enigma/Sjor sneaking a win due to a better back 4.

Cheers EAP.

I get what you're saying but Lothar was an excellent passer.

He was great at finding those wingers/wing-backs consistently.

Here are a couple of instances of him doing so against Napoli:-

 

[The Red Viper]

I loved watching Lombardo play. Imagine seeing someone that looks like your Physics teacher being a footballer. He also ran with an awkward gait that made it even more obvious it was indeed your physics teacher on the pitch and not a professional athlete. And then when he celebrated he didn't just do it with the same passion an average fan would, he celebrated like your physics teacher who couldn't believe his luck and was sure this whole thing of being a successful professional footballer was just a dream and he may as well enjoy it before he woke up back in the real world.

Contrary to what the caricaturesque description may suggest, he did everything right. He tracked back, got stuck in, successfully dribbled people with little jazz or effort, probably aided by the defender laughing his bollocks off wondering what this geezer was doing on the pitch, passed, crossed, scored... Not particularly easy on the eye, not a machine either because he wore his heart on his sleeve, just a very very productive player.

Forrest Gump lmao.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Enigma_87 @The Red Viper



Advantages:

Top defensive line. I think we have an advantage in defence, especially lead by Bergomi. A proven pair in the heart of defence comes with two top full backs on the back of sensational performances in a single season - (Branco for Genoa and Mannini for Samp).

cant argue with that, great defence where you have the upper hand in CB pairing but on the flanks i reckon we are on the same level.

Midfield - Matthaus would most likely boss the midfield, considering he's the outstanding midfielder both in the game and in the pool. During the 90/91 season he was at his absolute top in both phases, whilst also providing the difference in most occasions. Dunga is a great foil to provide the stage and also bring solidity at the back and protecting the back four.

This is where we have the advantage, as good as Lothar was he wont be able to cope with such a difference in numbers, we will win the midfield battle. Offensive wise Di Biagio will probably be the key, with numerical advantage he will have time on the ball(not that he is poor under pressure) and will be able to run the show and find both Veron and Del Piero in pockets of space, specially Veron as Dunga wont be able to cope with him + he will either be in space or will draw Dunga on himself so Conte will be free to bomb up field.
Katanec would always stay behind to keep an eye on Lothar and providing cover for Heinrich. So when we attack, we always have minimum of 2 player staying back and protecting(Di Biagio and Katanec).

Variety in attack - Our team will be a constant threat both on the wings and through the middle. Paulo Sergio and Lombardo's trickery and pace would be too good for the opposition to neutralize constantly and we have top goalscorers in the box with additional threat from Matthaus from deep.

Lombardo is the obvious danger man but i reckon Heinrich and Katanec can deal with him.

AdP against Bergomi - No doubt Sjor/MJJ star man is del Piero, but he comes in the zone where our best defender - Bergomi operates. Bergomi is well suited for the threat and probably one of the best fits to counter del Piero threat.

Dont get me wrong, Bergomi is comfortably the best defender on the pitch, by a mile but at his peak he is a fullback or a RCB in a back 3, no doubt he can play in a back 4 and he probably played there a bit but that wont be peak Bergomi so i reckon Del Piero wont be fully stopped as it seems on first glance + he roamed a lot and he would do the same here. Swapping positions with Fonseca just as he did with any of his partners at Juve.
Here he is against Thuram, similar player to Bergomi and you see him roaming all over the place and in the end scoring a lovely header after changing sides with Pippo.

Dunga vs Veron - Veron was instrumental for Lazio in their Serie A winning form, but again we have a very good fit here in Dunga to limit his presence. Dunga is top notch midfielder when it comes to the defensive phase and with his unlimited energy will frustrate Veron operating in his zone.

Its 4 vs 2 in the middle so just like you guys have the advantage on the flanks we have the same situation in the middle. If Dunga marks Veron then Conte will be free as a bird as neither Sergio or Branco have that tactical astuteness to close that semi-right pocket of space.

2 on 1 on both flanks - Most likely the opposition will play a diamond formation and with Mannini/Lombardo and Sergio/Branco flanks we will have the opportunity to outnumber the opposition defenders wide, which will lead to opening spaces in the middle when MJJ/Sjor midfielders help out.

As i said, clear upper hand there but the more dangerous side we have a bit covered with Katanec providing cover and we are not to Xabi Alonso on the right side either, Dunga wont go up so Conte will have defensive freedom to help out wherever he needs to help out.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Imagine this behind Del Piero and Fonseca with the numerical power in midfield and here he is against Edgar Davids at his peak.

 

[antohan]

Forrest Gump lmao.

Very much so. Come on @Enigma_87 , make a proper clip

 

[Gio]

Agree, the key strengths are dealt with pretty well, bar arguably Vialli. But given the clusterfeck in the middle the question is which team will be able to impose itself on proceedings and that's where my Man of the Match is Attilio Lombardo, his Sampdoria link with Vialli making it a done and dusted affair as far as I am concerned.

It would be great if Enigma put some effort into that (good as the Vialli piece is), such an under the radar player - seeing as the term underrated draws random discussions.

I loved watching Lombardo play. Imagine seeing someone that looks like your Physics teacher being a footballer. He also ran with an awkward gait that made it even more obvious it was indeed your physics teacher on the pitch and not a professional athlete. And then when he celebrated he didn't just do it with the same passion an average fan would, he celebrated like your physics teacher who couldn't believe his luck and was sure this whole thing of being a successful professional footballer was just a dream and he may as well enjoy it before he woke up back in the real world.

Contrary to what the caricaturesque description may suggest, he did everything right. He tracked back, got stuck in, successfully dribbled people with little jazz or effort, probably aided by the defender laughing his bollocks off wondering what this geezer was doing on the pitch, passed, crossed, scored... Not particularly easy on the eye, not a machine either because he wore his heart on his sleeve, just a very very productive player.

Remember watching Lombardo at the pre-season Ibrox tournament in 1994 I think. Was blown away by how penetrating he was. That Samp team made light work of Rangers and Newcastle and I mind Cantona getting petulantly sent off when United lost to Rangers.

 

[Gio]

Two really strong teams.

Lovely 442 from Enigma/TRV. I still see Enigma struggling for possession here against that midfield diamond. I also doubt that claim that Dunga would be capable of limiting Veron here, considering Sjor/MJJ's superior numbers in the middle.

Agree with this. Great platform for a fully peak Veron to perform. A pair of attackers that will relish his accurate and early service.

 

[Enigma_87]

Very much so. Come on @Enigma_87 , make a proper clip

He was like bald speedy Gonzalez actually at times


A proper player indeed. Someone who both Mourinho and Simeone would love nowadays.

We actually thought of playing him as a RWB in a 5-3-2.

 

[Enigma_87]

Likewise, great team btw
Will comment in 30 minutes when i get home.

Cheers mate, lovely team yourself

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Cheers mate, lovely team yourself

cant lose in this one tbh, either we go through or Lombardo goes. Definition of a win win scenario.

 

[Enigma_87]

ffs, was trying to address all points @Šjor Bepo but at the end lost the styling so let me break up some of the main points:

Bergomi as a RCB is a really a non brainer in terms of getting a peak Bergomi there. He was one of the most versatile defenders and could play all across the back. A bit like say Krol. In this game itself he'll most likely come into the same zone AdP will occupy, sure, he'll roam around, but Bergomi has Mannini as well on the side who isn't the most expansive full backs. He can and will support the attack when going forward but he was pretty solid at the back and also could play as a RCB for Samp.

A bit like Bergomi and Battistini in the early 90's where Inter started a lot of games in a back four complimented by Ferri and Brehme on the side - 90-92 in terms of the era we're encompassing in the current draft.

In fact the reason why we also prioritized Ferri after picking Bergomi is to consolidate that parthership at the back and also have a very familiar mechanics for Bergomi with another RB/RCB type as Mannini with a winger before him in Lombardo.

In terms of midfield we will defend of course matching your numbers considering Lombardo will track back and Paulo Sergio will also track back. Lombardo especially has a very high work rate so would compensate the number difference with his great engine.

Also what works for us is having a Matthaus/Dunga combo there. Matthaus in 90/91 was at his absolute peak and is head and shoulders the best midfielder on the park. He is in fact our star man and - something I posted in the main thread as well - even against a player of Maradona's stature in that 90/91 season he still managed to be hugely influential going forward.


Not saying both would make light work of your midfield, far from it of course but the individual quality and stylistically meshing up well will bridge the gap in numbers most of the time in the center.

There is of course Vialli who also loved to drop deep in that Samp side and will certainly also add to the midfield when off the ball.

 

[antohan]

He was like bald speedy Gonzalez actually at times

That made it even better, most of the time he trotted around lifting his knees pretty high, up and down, up and down, like in warm up exercises. Which made it pretty astonishing when he went into full pelt.

We actually thought of playing him as a RWB in a 5-3-2.

I toyed with that seeing as nobody was picking him, but it just wasn't fair on him. He belonged in a side that would play with a RM and ask him to do what he did best, which yours does.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Enigma_87 im not doubting nor questioning Bergomi credentials, all i said IMO that wont be peak Bergomi which means it wont be a tier 1 defender in an all-time list as i rate him that high in RB/RCB(back 3) positions. Del Piero face similar opposition pretty much during his whole Serie A career and he did alright, well, at least in his peak days as i rate his late 90s as his best years.

Regarding midfield battle, of course you guys have counter plan to stop my advantages just like we have our but that doesnt mean there still isnt a mismatch and a certain area of the pitch to exploit.
As for Lothar, yes, probably the best player on the park but thats Diego past his peak

 

[sincher]

Well this is better after the Elephants vs Arseholes shitfest.

Bepo's Bastards take an early lead after Lombardo, Veron and Vialli all go up for a header and forget whose head is which, resulting in a free kick that could have gone either way to be honest. Branco steps up to take it but has such a long run up that Del Piero nips in and hits it the other way and somehow scores, perhaps partly because Rossi is confused about actually having to do anything for a change and was leaning against his goalpost having a sneaky fag. Different time I guess.

After a brief and somewhat suspicious chat with Antonio Conte, the ref awards the goal. 1-0.

The rest of the first half carries on with the bastards in control of the game, mostly because Enigma's Eejits can't seem to get their heads round 'switching to 4-3-3 when they have the ball' with all the midfielders except Dunga (obviously) trying to be the extra man and generally vacating the midfield area. Somehow, though, they keep it at 1-0, maybe because Dunga is used to this exact pattern when playing for Brazil.

After the first half a tactical switch (amounting to 'stop fannying about') and the eejits start playing with Matthaus as a sweeper and he is suddenly all over the park.
They also start realising that they are playing against the sp.... diamond and that the bastards are relying on Helveg and Heinrich for their width. Pinned back by Lombardo and Paolo Sergio and allowed less time in midfield, Veron tries a hollywood pass and fecks it like the occasional fannyfart he later liked to exhibit more regularly, Matthaus grabs it, runs upfield, gives it wide to Lombardo who slings a first time cross in for Balbo. 1-1. Conte looks aghast. He's going to have to dig deep for this one. Might lose his car.

The rest of the game sees some quality stuff from both sides in midfield but Bergomi and Ferri showing themselves to be one of the most chilled out partnerships in history with Matthaus buzzing around them and the eejits face no further serious trouble.

Finally with just a couple of minutes to go, after three penalty appeals are mysteriously turned down, Vialli fires in a shot from the edge of the area which flicks off Conte and lands in the bottom corner. Ha ha Antonio!

2-1 to the eejits and good luck with anyone trying to beat them who doesn't pay off the officials first.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

love the Rossi part.

 

[harms]

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Well this is better after the Elephants vs Arseholes shitfest.

Bepo's Bastards take an early lead after Lombardo, Veron and Vialli all go up for a header and forget whose head is which, resulting in a free kick that could have gone either way to be honest. Branco steps up to take it but has such a long run up that Del Piero nips in and hits it the other way and somehow scores, perhaps partly because Rossi is confused about actually having to do anything for a change and was leaning against his goalpost having a sneaky fag. Different time I guess.

After a brief and somewhat suspicious chat with Antonio Conte, the ref awards the goal. 1-0.

The rest of the first half carries on with the bastards in control of the game, mostly because Enigma's Eejits can't seem to get their heads round 'switching to 4-3-3 when they have the ball' with all the midfielders except Dunga (obviously) trying to be the extra man and generally vacating the midfield area. Somehow, though, they keep it at 1-0, maybe because Dunga is used to this exact pattern when playing for Brazil.

After the first half a tactical switch (amounting to 'stop fannying about') and the eejits start playing with Matthaus as a sweeper and he is suddenly all over the park.
They also start realising that they are playing against the sp.... diamond and that the bastards are relying on Helveg and Heinrich for their width. Pinned back by Lombardo and Paolo Sergio and allowed less time in midfield, Veron tries a hollywood pass and fecks it like the occasional fannyfart he later liked to exhibit more regularly, Matthaus grabs it, runs upfield, gives it wide to Lombardo who slings a first time cross in for Balbo. 1-1. Conte looks aghast. He's going to have to dig deep for this one. Might lose his car.

The rest of the game sees some quality stuff from both sides in midfield but Bergomi and Ferri showing themselves to be one of the most chilled out partnerships in history with Matthaus buzzing around them and the eejits face no further serious trouble.

Finally with just a couple of minutes to go, after three penalty appeals are mysteriously turned down, Vialli fires in a shot from the edge of the area which flicks off Conte and lands in the bottom corner. Ha ha Antonio!

2-1 to the eejits and good luck with anyone trying to beat them who doesn't pay off the officials first.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

We actually thought of playing him as a RWB in a 5-3-2

Aye, us too, although it would have been controversial and he's far better served in this setup. Such a strange player. There were times when he looked utterly awful on the ball, all workrate and feck all else, then before you knew it he'd blown past three defenders and planted the ball on his centre forward's head, or just buried it into the net himself. When he was on his game he was so effective.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

creative stuff from Sincher

A Conte own goal to decide the match !

 

[Pat_Mustard]

This is the highest quality match yet imo, and neither team deserves to go out. Going with Enigma/TRV for now, partly on the strength of that defence, and partly because I can see Dunga/Matthaus just about holding their own vs that diamond, and Lombardo being a consistent difference-maker vs Heinrich, who I don't remember impressing much in Serie A.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

The game is over but i was curious about Del Piero - Bergomi situation so decided to watch that game tonight, i mean what more can you ask from a football game. Bergomi, Zanetti, Fenomeno vs Davids, Zidane, Del Pierro + you get to watch proper football not this crap we have to watch this days.

Was the standout player alongside Davids but had little or no support from other offensive players, Zidane had a shocker and Inzaghi was, well....Inzaghi. Funnily enough, Fenomeno also had a shocker although he had a very good assist for the only goal in the game but was surprised how poor he was, he was invisible for majority of the game and when he had the ball, he lost possession.