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Sheep draft - Raees vs Joga Bonito

Who would win based on player peak?


  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Have a look at the videos (match compilation of all his touches/tackles) , he plays deeper and does it well. He is considered to be a very versatile player (can play across the midfield) , so if my instructions are to him to sit deep and counter, you can expect him to stick to such instructions.
A bit debatable imo. He has the workrate and versatility to play and has played in CM, AM, Left Wing etc, but in all midfield roles one I do not recall him playing at all is a 'sit back and counter' role. I really don't think those instructions get the best out of him.

It will give you a fantastic attacking outlet esp along the left wing, but on the flip side, it means Joga will have better control over possession in the middle. His team is better at retaining the ball and moving it to find opportunities.

Still haven't decided on how this affects end result as teams are very very close.
 

antohan

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Re: the above, it strikes me as quite relevant to define which Schuster you are playing @Joga Bonito, pre-injury? post-injury Barca? Real?
 

VivaJanuzaj

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Joga just wins it for me. I just think Attack vs defense and Defense vs attack here are pretty even, I just think that Joga's midfield will work better with the addition of Hierro. I'm not too sure about Effenberg's role in that midfield(which is brilliant overall), I just think Effenberg will have his hands too full.
 

VivaJanuzaj

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I have to say, Schwarzer almost got me voting against Joga here and might still change it for me. Never a top class keeper, closer to being a sheep keeper than an all-time draft keeper if you ask me and that should make a difference, especially with Raees' attack.

Shit, now I'm thinking of changing my vote.
 

antohan

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Gerets was probably the best right-back in Europe at his very best.
No question. I do worry a little bit about the gung-ho nature of @Raees backline though. In a way, Joga's fullbacks being more defensive makes him look a bit stale... but safer.
 

antohan

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I have to say, Schwarzer almost got me voting against Joga here and might still change it for me. Never a top class keeper, closer to being a sheep keeper than an all-time draft keeper if you ask me and that should make a difference, especially with Raees' attack.

Shit, now I'm thinking of changing my vote.
Not sure he is sheep bad, but N'Kono was actually the first African (bar Eusebio, obviously) whose name I remember, the next "big name" to register was Milla about a decade later. For the whole of the 80s, if you asked me to name an African player I would be at a loss to name anyone other than N'Kono. Rabah Madjer is the only other that comes to mind. Mind you, I'm not sure how much that says about N'Kono or African football being complete shite back then. It's actually quite remarkable when you think of it, I can only name three Africans spanning an entire decade, now you can name three off any random PL team.
 

VivaJanuzaj

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Not sure he is sheep bad, but N'Kono was actually the first African (bar Eusebio, obviously) whose name I remember, the next "big name" to register was Milla about a decade later. For the whole of the 80s, if you asked me to name an African player I would be at a loss to name anyone other than N'Kono. Rabah Madjer is the only other that comes to mind. Mind you, I'm not sure how much that says about N'Kono or African football being complete shite back then. It's actually quite remarkable when you think of it, I can only name three Africans spanning an entire decade, now you can name three off any random PL team.
Well to be fair I don't know too much about N'Kono, and I don't think Schwarzer is a bad keeper by any means, but against any other keeper that would've been an actual vote changer for me. When you face the quality of attacks in these drafts you want an amazing keeper, which by all-times standard gives you plenty of options, yet we have two mediocre-ish keepers here. I'm not saying the two managers are taking a piss(like most people do in these draft) on keepers in draft concept, but it might really sway my vote in future rounds.
 

Chesterlestreet

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N'Kono was a tremendous keeper, Schwarzer has nothing on him, more likely the opposite.
Damn right. It's no contest. In this context we're dealing with a significant gap: A legend against a no-mark. Sorry, but that is what it is.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Well to be fair I don't know too much about N'Kono, and I don't think Schwarzer is a bad keeper by any means, but against any other keeper that would've been an actual vote changer for me. When you face the quality of attacks in these drafts you want an amazing keeper, which by all-times standard gives you plenty of options, yet we have two mediocre-ish keepers here. I'm not saying the two managers are taking a piss(like most people do in these draft) on keepers in draft concept, but it might really sway my vote in future rounds.
Not when you take the overall quality of keepers in this draft into consideration. Look at the full list. What we have is one mediocre keeper - and an excellent one.
 

antohan

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Well to be fair I don't know too much about N'Kono, and I don't think Schwarzer is a bad keeper by any means, but against any other keeper that would've been an actual vote changer for me. When you face the quality of attacks in these drafts you want an amazing keeper, which by all-times standard gives you plenty of options, yet we have two mediocre-ish keepers here. I'm not saying the two managers are taking a piss(like most people do in these draft) on keepers in draft concept, but it might really sway my vote in future rounds.
Nah, it's largely how sheep drafts work, making keepers the safe go-to place when a pair fails or you are facing a sheep in the third round. I suppose what you have to assess is in what context they got that keeper. I wouldn't have been surprised to see N'Kono go first round, while Schwarzer would be more a "make do" option.
 

kps88

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Majority of teams this time round have managed to get strong keepers. Schwarzer's definitely one of the weakest.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Overall quality: Similar.

Tactical advantage: Joga. Can't fault him for much here - excellent balance to it.

Significant differences:

1. Middle of the park. Not convinced by Raees' balance here. A trio of players who are all more impressive going forward than sitting back. Boban's role a bit dubious. Agree with what Edgar suggested above: It's not that Boban can't play CM - it's more that he doesn't look a natural fit when he's asked to be some sort of holder. Joga, on the other hand, has Macherano doing the dirty work behind a pair of tremendous and versatile (within reason) central/attacking midfielders. Only possible issue here is which incarnation of the player is actually on the pitch. Both Schuster and Suarez can be viewed as purely attacking midfielders in one version - more deeper, more of a proper CM, in another version (a version which then loses some of its attacking potential, obviously).

2. Middle of defence: Advantage Joga. Not a huge one, but it's there.

3. Keepers: Clear advantage Raees.

Voting Joga for now. Reserving the right to change it pending further debate/clarifications.
 

Raees

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A bit debatable imo. He has the workrate and versatility to play and has played in CM, AM, Left Wing etc, but in all midfield roles one I do not recall him playing at all is a 'sit back and counter' role. I really don't think those instructions get the best out of him.

It will give you a fantastic attacking outlet esp along the left wing, but on the flip side, it means Joga will have better control over possession in the middle. His team is better at retaining the ball and moving it to find opportunities.

Still haven't decided on how this affects end result as teams are very very close.
That is the thing, although I agree in theory that his team should control possession better by virtue of the completeness of his midfield.. my team is much more technically gifted across the pitch which is the key here. The best teams at keeping possession are those teams which have players which are comfortable on the ball all over including defenders. All three of my midfielders are super skilful, whereas he has 2 out of the three which are super technical. All of my defenders are superb on the ball whereas he has all defensive players bar Hierro in that defence.. that will definitely make an impact on how well they can keep the ball. Put Xavi, Iniesta in a side where Burgnich and Cole are the full backs vs Breitner/Gerets... there would be a big difference in terms of how well that team can keep the ball. Same goes for Mascherano in the Barca side.. there is a reason why Busquets was preferred because he helps keep possession, control the game better.. Vieri, a battering ram.. not the keeping possession type of CF.

In summary, I think by virtue of my more technically accomplished side, we will win the battle for possession, even though he has the more balanced midfield. You need 11 men to keep the ball, not just three.

In addition I have the better attack, that has to count for something.. all three of my attackers are legends in their own right. Match-winners in their sides.
 
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Raees

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@Raees the reason I asked about Boban is because you said you expect to lose the midfield battle and play compact. Will this not result in vastly underutilizing both Boban and Hagi? My point is that if you're going to play compact, you'd be better off having another Effenberg type in there. That, or actually lose the compactness a bit a play a bit more open? I kinda agree with Joga that being compact isn't necessarily a great idea against his midfield duo.

Sajeev also has a point about Mascherano. But again, if your aim is to be compact in midfield, you would find it harder to target Mascherano.
Compact when they have the ball and it will counter-attack with a fair amount of aggression. All three of my midfielders are superb at long passing, threading eye of the needle passes and running with the ball.. we sit back, press occasionally and when we nick the ball, we will be supplying the more fearsome attack.

It will be very hard to keep Batistuta quiet when he has such illustrious team mates supplying him. This isn't Rui Costa.. or Veron, he has got some top notch players in there, giving him the space to give Kohler a run for his money. If Batigol performs, he can take on the best or least be a huge distraction. He is a bigger threat than Vieri, in fact man for man my attack is simply the better attack and it is a more fluid attack, capable of scoring all sorts of goals.. Batistuta in the blink of an eye could smash a 40 yarder.. that is the type of attack I have.
 

Raees

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Case for the Defence - Velibor Vasovic

Moreover, Michels realised that though there was an abundance of talent, the correct mindset was missing. Too often, as Dutch mentalities can tend to be, there was a lack of a winning mentality in the young Ajax squad. They lacked the arrogance, (which for many, is what actuallywould turn out to be the hamartia of the Oranje in the 1974 World Cup final) and self-assurance. So, Rinus Michels set out on an expedition to search high and low for a player who ticked these boxes for him, perhaps the final jigsaw of his own goudenploeg (golden team).

In short, he was hoping to chance upon Velibor Vasovic.

Knowing that Ajax would contest in the European Cup, having won the Eredivisie, Michels was not one who would settle for losses in Europe, writing them off as ‘experience’. As a result, his search began right after Ajax had triumphed in the league. Michels had watched Vasovic’s Partizan lose to a Real Madrid with the likes of Pirri and Gento in Brussels, but was highly impressed with the Yugoslav centreback’s tendency to burst out in attack when he was in possession of the ball. He approached Vasovic through a mutual friend and official talks were held in October of 1966, a few months before ‘de Mistwestrijd’ thrashing of Shankly’s Liverpool and the subsequent disappointing exit at the hands of underdogs Dukla Prague.

Vasovic was not satisfied with the price offered by the Amsterdam club, but wanting a move away from Belgrade, with Ajax the only viable option and convinced with Michels’ vision for the club and his own role in it, Vasovic signed for the Godenzonen in December 1966 and was immediately drafted into the first XI, paired with Barry Hulshoff, 8 years his junior. Vasovic himself was not old at the time, only 27, but in comparison to the rest of the Ajax squad, he was a veteran and he knew it. By no means, modest, he realised then the impact he could have at the football club, just by sharing his experience and showing the younger generation how to play in order to win.

“When I came, I preferred to play a kind of total football. I played the last man in defence, the libero. Michels made this plan to play very offensive football. We discussed it. I was the architect, together with Michels, of the aggressive way of defending. I did small things, like make an offisde or stand in the wall to make a gap for goals. When you see examples from other players on field, you learn a hundred times better than in training,” he said, with the same air of confidence he had around him when he arrived at Ajax. His self-assurance became contagious at the de Meer, not the least infecting Johan Cruijff, who looked to the Prozevac-born defender like his elder brother.

As we gaze back at the past now, his last sentence there could not have been more true. With him around, his young 19-year-old partner in defence, Hulshoff learnt how to read the game with precision, so much so that though Michels asked of him to be stronger and rougher on field, he never had to, because he would never let attackers get that close. Ruud Krol, who played leftback when Vasovic was at Ajax, would later become a sweeper himself has also acknowledged the Yugoslav’s input in his own development as a player, talking about how he would try to emulate Vasovic.

Moroever, Vasovic had a resilient aura about him that was ever so vital in transforming Ajax from a team that played beautifully to a team that won beautifully. There was a lot more steel in the Golden Ajax team than many romantics would have you believe and Vasovic made sure that the defence remained efficient while being offensive and aggressive. Vasco was one who certainly knew the detour from the road of arrogance to the road of complacency and with the help of Michels, made sure he and the team were on the right track.

Looking a bit like Johan Cruijff’s older, stouter brother too, Vasovic was given the captaincy by Michels, hence making him the first ever foreign player to have captained Ajax, and he got the honour of being captain in the clubs’s bid to win their first European Cup. But as he was, four years previously in Brussels, Vasovic was denied the chance to get his hands on ‘Big-Ears’ even though he had scored in his second European final, though this team his Ajax were beaten soundly by Milan. 4-1 it ended and by the end of the match, Vasovic had but one resolve. He knew his career was not going to last long, especially with his asthma, even though he was only 30 at the time. Even though they had just won two Eredivisie titles on the trot, nothing matches the exultation of being decreed as the best in Europe. ‘Vasco’ was possibly the one determined, more than anyone in that Ajax team to win the European Cup.

Perhaps the biggest aid for this dream of his, came in the form of a 19-year-old, wild-haired Dutch lad with a penchant to run equally wildly at the opponents, the young Johan Neeskens. In a way, Neeskens brought the best out of Vasovic himself. Neeskens would hound the opposition into their own half while Vasovic realised his defence’s relative positions compared to the opponent attacker’s and urged his defenders to move forward and decrease the space or ‘pitch’ available for the opponents. This was effectively, the invention of the offside trap and the high line that Ajax still use today.

Moreover, it involved the very Dutch concept of space, which Michels based Total Football on. As Barry Hulshoff puts it, “You make space, you come into space.”. The more successful Ajax teams – including the recent hattrick-championship-winning ones – have always been built on a foundation of technically brilliant defenders who are more-than-capable passers, and Vasovic was the one who undoubtedly set the precedent. As David Winner puts it, Vasovic was a ‘battle-hardened veteran and inspiring competitor who could teach the youngsters a thing or two about winning football matches.’

All these tactics were not yet known of in other shores and this meant 1971 was the year, when Velibor Vasovic would get third time lucky and lift his and Ajax’s first European Cup, as captain. With that, he would hang his boots up, only 32 and only having played 13 full seasons in his entire career. He had found his Holy Grail and he was content, leaving the Netherlands as an Ajax legend and having spearheaded some of the biggest tactical innovations football has seen and uses today

Case for the Defence - Ricardo Carvalho

The Portuguese Nesta - one of the games prime defenders at his peak.. complete in every sense. Tough, elegant, pacey, super intelligent and a master of the dark arts. He was the centre-back every top side craved and Real Madrid craved him like no other. Mourinho called him the best in the world and he knows a thing or two about defenders. The best defender in the world during 04-06.. unstoppable. He had a particular thing about Barcelona and he loved stopping Messi in his tracks..


 
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NM

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If he gets through, I hope I don't draw @Raees in the next round. Too many walls of text!
 

NM

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Oh wow. I thought this would be easy for Joga, but right now I'm leaning SLIGHTLY towards Raees.
 

Raees

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Was just thinking all that text could be to Raees's disavantage. Very few are going to read it all. Might be something to consider @Raees
They were things I found interesting on my lesser known players - no obligation to read them but I might spoiler them from now on, they're abit much. I didn't bother with Batigol etc.
 
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Chesterlestreet

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They were things I found interesting on my lesser known players - no obligation to read them but I might spoiler them from now on, they're abit much. I didn't bother with Batigol etc.
Nothing wrong with presenting your case properly, my friend. Spoilers are a good idea, though, as some might be inclined to take thoroughness for overkill - might piss off scan voters and so forth.

One detail (seeing as we're being thorough): The bit about Neeskens doesn't strike me as relevant. You don't have Neeskens - and I wouldn't say you have anyone like him either - which may actually turn the point against you. Not saying it does - it's obviously primarily meant as an illustration of how good your man was, but still. It doesn't say anything beyond "he was good and here's yet another point to prove it", and you don't really need that. If you had Neeskens - or if you had set up like Ajax in the early 70s - then it would've been a great point. But you don't - so it ain't.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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That is the thing, although I agree in theory that his team should control possession better by virtue of the completeness of his midfield.. my team is much more technically gifted across the pitch which is the key here. The best teams at keeping possession are those teams which have players which are comfortable on the ball all over including defenders.
mmm, partly agree. You need both. But if pushed to make a choice, I'd rate balance over individual technical ability. Take Real's Galacticos as a example, putting in a bunch of technically accomplished players does not necessarily equate to success. You need a balance to the team (a la Makelele sale) without which the overall impact is greatly reduced. I haven't made my choice yet, as despite the balance you still have raw firepower to push through even on goals. Let me put this on for a bit later.

They were things I found interesting on my lesser known players - no obligation to read them but I might spoiler them from now on, they're abit much. I didn't bother with Batigol etc.
Yes, it makes a interesting read. But you should differentiate between player profile and tactics discussion. They have overlaps, but posting full profile kind of shadows the tactical point you are trying to make.
 

Gio

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  • Don't think either midfield is perfectly balanced so there's no tactical advantage to either side there.
  • Joga's defence is brilliantly imposing and looks a cut above Raaes in getting the job done. What it lacks is ability on the ball but he does have Hierro in there opening up play with his raking long balls and Cole providing short-and-sharp interplay.
  • Gerets and Breitner will contribute significantly to the shape of the game here and it would be important that Joga's wingers do their fair share of tracking.
  • Vasovic and Carvalho were great defenders but as a partnership they will be vulnerable to Vieri's bullying and aerial strength. It's a bit like when I faced up to Anto with Nordahl up front against Vasovic and Rio. You'd fancy Vieri to get something off one of the creative geniuses behind him.
  • In contrast you'd feel that Kohler would have a better chance of nullifying some of Batistuta's strengths because he is both the best defender on the park and a grizzly man-marker who'd relish the battle.
  • Schwarzer stands out like a sore thumb in this company.
 

MDFC Manager

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I simply can't separate the teams either. Joga has a slightly better defense, but his keeper is Schwarzer. How did you end up with him again?!

Raes playing a compact midfield, on the other hand, just invites way too much pressure IMO, even with a solid defense. I'm not convinced about the argument he presented against that.

It could well be a coin toss for my vote
 

Joga Bonito

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I have to say, Schwarzer almost got me voting against Joga here and might still change it for me. Never a top class keeper, closer to being a sheep keeper than an all-time draft keeper if you ask me and that should make a difference, especially with Raees' attack.

Shit, now I'm thinking of changing my vote.
He's not a top class keeper nor one close to a sheep imo. He's a solid and reliable keeper who has been one of the better keeper in the EPL alongside Friedel and below the likes of Cech and VDS. He's not going to give match winning per performances that I'd concede but he isn't going to be a liability who's going to contribute to a loss either.
 

Chesterlestreet

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He's not a top class keeper nor one close to a sheep imo. He's a solid and reliable keeper who has been one of the better keeper in the EPL alongside Friedel and below the likes of Cech and VDS. He's not going to give match winning per performances that I'd concede but he isn't going to be a liability who's going to contribute to a loss either.
Below Friedel, I'd say, who was - if anything- underrated: That is, he was considered a game raising cnut (TM) by some - which was based on certain performances and not a fair assessment of his quality. If you had Friedel between the sticks here, you'd get no raised eyebrows.

Schwartzer would have been a fair-ish choice if the pool consisted only of Premier League era keepers. But it didn't. And there we are. I agree with Gio - he stands out like a sore thumb and I would ditch him if you go through (as you should, because you have the stronger team here, all things considered).
 

Joga Bonito

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  • Don't think either midfield is perfectly balanced so there's no tactical advantage to either side there.
  • Joga's defence is brilliantly imposing and looks a cut above Raaes in getting the job done. What it lacks is ability on the ball but he does have Hierro in there opening up play with his raking long balls and Cole providing short-and-sharp interplay.
  • Gerets and Breitner will contribute significantly to the shape of the game here and it would be important that Joga's wingers do their fair share of tracking.
  • Vasovic and Carvalho were great defenders but as a partnership they will be vulnerable to Vieri's bullying and aerial strength. It's a bit like when I faced up to Anto with Nordahl up front against Vasovic and Rio. You'd fancy Vieri to get something off one of the creative geniuses behind him.
  • In contrast you'd feel that Kohler would have a better chance of nullifying some of Batistuta's strengths because he is both the best defender on the park and a grizzly man-marker who'd relish the battle.
  • Schwarzer stands out like a sore thumb in this company.
Could you expand on that please?

I have Mascherano playing the holding role and there have been few DMs as impressive as him in the last decade or so alongside Gattuso. Provides the perfect platform for Schuster & Suárez to express their talents.

Schuster is really as complete as midfielders come. He had the vision and technique to boss any midfield combined with the industry and defensive nous. So much so that he played the libero role for Real in his later years and Beckenbauer called him his heir which Vogts and Weisweiler seconded.

Beckenbauer - He will be the big leader in the World Cup 1982. His new time in Spain will be very good for his personal improvement. In midfield he is great and in the Libero position he could be a good successor of mine"

Hennes Weisweiler, German legendary trainer: "Bernd is a very good player, he has got quality and intelligence. He's the best player I've never coached. I'm sure he could be the successor of Franz Beckenbauer

Vogts - Since Beckenbauer, German football has not seen a player like this, only Schuster"

Rainor Bonhof - "It is a pity what has happened to Bernd. The situation ws in the very edge betweenhim and the trainer Heddergott. He will be a great footballer, he is strong like a Neeskens with the quality of Cruyff. FC Barcelona can build a super team around him, but he is very young and the club has a lot of problems, specially now, so I hope Simonsen will help Bernd. He is not polemic, I disagree the journalists, he is a good team-mate and an excellent footballer"

He's more than capable of being a complete player pulling the strings with Mascherano providing solidity and the brilliant Suárez to dovetail with. He's more than just a creative attacking mid and a much more versatile and complete player.

Luisito Suárez playing in his Barca goalscoring playmaking forward role in which he scored 112 goals in 316 games winning the Ballon d'Or and leading Barca to two titles against Di Stefano's Real. One of which Barca outscored them and won on goal difference. Unfortunately this version of Suárez doesn't get the credit it deserves due to being overshadowed by that Real SIDS which won 5 European Cups.

There's is also this precedence of Schuster & Maradona (similar incarnation to Barca Suárez) linking up extraordinarily well with Schuster bossing the midfield and Maradona being more of a creative forward doing what he does best.

As such I don't see a lack of balance in my midfield but I agree with the rest of your points.
 

Joga Bonito

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Below Friedel, I'd say, who was - if anything- underrated: That is, he was considered a game raising cnut (TM) by some - which was based on certain performances and not a fair assessment of his quality. If you had Friedel between the sticks here, you'd get no raised eyebrows.

Schwartzer would have been a fair-ish choice if the pool consisted only of Premier League era keepers. But it didn't. And there we are. I agree with Gio - he stands out like a sore thumb and I would ditch him if you go through (as you should, because you have the stronger team here, all things considered).
Yeah fair enough, agree with you & Gio. He was always going to be upgraded first thing if I got through.

It was a mistake getting him I agree, I just didn't have the time to research after my first round pick (Stoickov) was blocked in the African/Asian round and hurried it with Schwarzer who was the only goalie who came to mind. My secpnd choice was Zeljo Kalac who might have slipped through unnoticed here :lol:. Shame wobbly legs Grobbelar didn't cross my mind at that time.

A mistake, no two ways about it but I don't think it'll have such a negative impact as some are making it out to be. He isn't exactly a bumbling sheep keeper and like I said, he won't win me matches but neither is he going to cost me a match.
 

VivaJanuzaj

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He's not a top class keeper nor one close to a sheep imo. He's a solid and reliable keeper who has been one of the better keeper in the EPL alongside Friedel and below the likes of Cech and VDS. He's not going to give match winning per performances that I'd concede but he isn't going to be a liability who's going to contribute to a loss either.
That part is a bit too much for me.

I'm not saying these came often, but you always had the feeling one of these might come with Schwarzer:
 

Joga Bonito

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That part is a bit too much for me.

I'm not saying these came often, but you always had the feeling one of these might come with Schwarzer:
Can't see that video as I'm on my phone but I'm assuming it's Chelsea where he wasn't at his peak. He was integral in both Fulham and Boro's Uefa Cup final runs whilst winning Fulham's POTY award. His departure also played a role in Boro's relegation the following season. Anyway we've all made our points so let's move on.

BTW what's the general opinion on Dzajic here. Raees was claiming he was on the same level as Garrincha and Best while claiming he's better than Czibor and that Burgnich isn't a match for him. We decided to disagree and leave it that but I'm curious to know what's the general view on this matter. I see quite a few comments on Raees's impressive left flank, is that due to Dzajic or Breitner or both?
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
19,570
A mistake, no two ways about it but I don't think it'll have such a negative impact as some are making it out to be. He isn't exactly a bumbling sheep keeper and like I said, he won't win me matches but neither is he going to cost me a match.
No, he ain't a sheep - he's just an utter no-mark in an all time context. And the latter is what we have here.

And the keeper scrutiny was announced...Just saying. People may have thought it was a joke - but it sure as feck ain't. I'll be critical of far better keepers than Schwarzer if the occasion calls for it.

That said, I did vote for you - which means that I don't think Schwarzer will cost you the match. But he needs to go - first chance you get, put him on a plane. He has no business barking orders to Kohler - it's simply not done.

Alright - keeper ranting over. It's an obvious weak point - but it doesn't determine the outcome. Not for me, at least.
 

Cutch

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
16,414
Location
Northern Ireland. Stretty W3102, Row 2, Seat 129
No, he ain't a sheep - he's just an utter no-mark in an all time context. And the latter is what we have here.

And the keeper scrutiny was announced...Just saying. People may have thought it was a joke - but it sure as feck ain't. I'll be critical of far better keepers than Schwarzer if the occasion calls for it.

That said, I did vote for you - which means that I don't think Schwarzer will cost you the match. But he needs to go - first chance you get, put him on a plane. He has no business barking orders to Kohler - it's simply not done.

Alright - keeper ranting over. It's an obvious weak point - but it doesn't determine the outcome. Not for me, at least.
:lol:
 

Joga Bonito

The Art of Football
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
8,247
No, he ain't a sheep - he's just an utter no-mark in an all time context. And the latter is what we have here.

And the keeper scrutiny was announced...Just saying. People may have thought it was a joke - but it sure as feck ain't. I'll be critical of far better keepers than Schwarzer if the occasion calls for it.

That said, I did vote for you - which means that I don't think Schwarzer will cost you the match. But he needs to go - first chance you get, put him on a plane. He has no business barking orders to Kohler - it's simply not done.

Alright - keeper ranting over. It's an obvious weak point - but it doesn't determine the outcome. Not for me, at least.
:lol: That would be a strange sight indeed
 

Joga Bonito

The Art of Football
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
8,247
mmm, partly agree. You need both. But if pushed to make a choice, I'd rate balance over individual technical ability. Take Real's Galacticos as a example, putting in a bunch of technically accomplished players does not necessarily equate to success. You need a balance to the team (a la Makelele sale) without which the overall impact is greatly reduced. I haven't made my choice yet, as despite the balance you still have raw firepower to push through even on goals. Let me put this on for a bit later.
I'd still say I have an arguably higher goal threat than him and arguably more firepower. Vieri at his peak averaged around a goal per game in the league for 3 seasons. 24 in 24 games for Atletico, 22 in 25 for Inter and 24 in 23 games for Inter, scoring a whopping 103 in 143 for them and 9 in 9 WC winning the silver boot in 98 and the bronze boot in 2002, RVN like figures but with better pace, heading and hold up play.

Litti at his peak scored 1 in 2 for a rather meh Koln side in the Bundesliga.

Suárez scored 112 in 216 for Barca whilst primarily being a playmaker in this exact role and led the Barca side to two titles against Di Stefano's Real.

Czibor scored 20 goals in one season for Honvéd,a ridiculously talented side, finishing top scorer in the league whilst having a good goalscoring record for both Barca and the Mighty Magyars (17 in 43 games) whilst primarily being a creative outside left.

Schuster averaged a very good 1 in 3 for Barça whilst playing as a CM for a good portion of his time there.

Who has higher firepower is debatable (although I'd say its mine :angel:) but with his attackers facing better defenders than mine are (esp Vieri who will have the edge over Vasovic-Carvalho whilst Batistuta faces Kohler) and being supplied by a stronger and more creative midfield, I'd back my attack to have a higher chance of outscoring his.