Sheffield United's 3-5-2 'Overlapping Centre-backs" Approach

antohan

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This is similar to what I see us having at United one day in a 352.

Sheffield United seem to play with a sweeper that allows the CB's to get wider & forward.

The only difference I see at United in the 352 is a false 9 and a 'false sweeper'.

The false sweeper is someone who starts at CDM & moves to the centre of defence when United have possession of the ball. The 2 CB's widens across the pitch to get the ball forward whilst the fullbacks push forward.

  • Dalot - Lindelof - De ligt - shaw
  • Rice
To

  • Lindelof - Rice - De Ligt
  • Dalot Shaw

Basically shifting from a back 2 in to a back 3 when on the attack - allowing the rest of the team to go forward & players like Pogba have a lot of freedom.

On the other side there will be a false Nine that allows our forwards to split wide & receive the ball at angles.

A diamond formation with 2 false positions.
That's basically Leverkusen circa 2002. It was more a 4-1-4-1 as the widemen (Zé Roberto and Schneider) were competent midfielders.

Ramelow dropped into a three (as he did for Germany, and Edmilson for Brazil to release Cafú and Carlos) and the mobile midget that was Oliver Neuville wasn't precisely a classic centreforward.

They were a very interesting side and you could argue it would make Pogba shine as brightly as Ballack did.
 

antohan

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I’ve never seen the point of playing three central defenders unless they’re willing to get involved in attacking play. Might as well play with 10 men otherwise. Which is what happened when Van Gaal played this formation.
Execution is key. The way we went about it we had 3 CBs, which is absurd as most teams play one upfront. The way Rijkaard, Popescu, Edmilson or Ramelow went about it was as DMs shielding the two CBs and only dropping into CB as a situation shaped up whereby either (rarely both) CBs had to move wide to provide cover on their flank.
 

Nialinho

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Love the innovation from Wilder, can definitely see it going mainstream in the era of the ball-playing CB. Looking forward to seeing if he's brave enough to stick with it in games against the top sides. Wouldn't be surprised to see big sides looking at O'Connell in the near future.
 

Stobzilla

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It's just Cruyff's back 3 employing FB's as CB's and having them attack instead.
 

Chipper

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Some teams with a back 4 push both full backs up high when attacking, leaving just the 2 central defenders back plus a defensive midfielder, sometimes 2 to shield them.

Doesn't seem a million miles away from that when you look at the end result. With this you can be left with the same kind of thing, 2 of your 3 CBs back and the DM or 2 to help them out.

The transitions will look different as a left or right sided CB has further to travel to get to the wing in an attacking position than a full back would in a back 4. They also have further to run to get back to their set defensive position when play breaks down. That could obviously leave you open but when attacking has potential to cause confusion as it's something a bit different and not necessarily what teams are used to playing against.
 

VorZakone

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They're actually sitting 9th in the table. Not too shabby.
 

FootballHQ

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Have to say I really enjoy watching Sheffield United play.

It's not passing around for passing around sake (unlike their opposition tonight who wanted to get their possession stats up in last 20 minutes). They can knock it long when they want to but they are also capable of playing good quick touch football when that is required and they don't get enough credit for that. It won them several corners tonight and eventually they scored from one.

Reason 3-5-2 is effective is they actually make it work overloading in corners of the pitch and play quick 1-2s that give their wide players space.

A very nice team to watch and think I've said consistantly this season they'll stay up as to me they have more grit than Norwich who are too easy to score against.
 

Bebestation

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352 has been my favourite formation for a whilst now & I have wanted to see it at both United and the England National team but not in a defensive way.

I've heard a lot of good things about Wilder's tactics but ultimately don't know much else about him. Is he someone who one day could manage a club like ours - say maybe the way Rodgers managed Swansea and went to Liverpool? Seems to generally get promotions with his clubs nearly year bar one & is doing well this year too.

Maybe it's too soon - but again just the formation alone and his ability to go attacking from a defensive formation has me intrigued.
 

DWelbz19

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Incredible stat.
 

RussellWilson

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Apparently if you have poor players you can't coach them to play good football or is that only true for Manchester United?
 

SAFMUTD

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Apparently if you have poor players you can't coach them to play good football or is that only true for Manchester United?
Strange he didnt need 300 million and 2 years at least for their players to play according to a system :eek:
 

Based Adnan

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Biggest compliment I can give Wilder is his team looks so much more than the sum of its parts
 

Blades1889

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Have to say I really enjoy watching Sheffield United play.

It's not passing around for passing around sake (unlike their opposition tonight who wanted to get their possession stats up in last 20 minutes). They can knock it long when they want to but they are also capable of playing good quick touch football when that is required and they don't get enough credit for that. It won them several corners tonight and eventually they scored from one.

Reason 3-5-2 is effective is they actually make it work overloading in corners of the pitch and play quick 1-2s that give their wide players space.

A very nice team to watch and think I've said consistantly this season they'll stay up as to me they have more grit than Norwich who are too easy to score against.
Yet there are still people that label us as a typical gritty Yorkshire team. Wonder how long it will take for that view to change
 
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They are a good side and aren't bad to watch at all. The "pundits" who keep lazily calling them basic and long ball clearly aren't doing their jobs.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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Yet there are still people that label us as a typical gritty Yorkshire team. Wonder how long it will take for that view to change
It's changing. Earlier in the season I heard a host (maybe Dave Jones or Dan Walker on BBC1) mention your overlapping fullbacks to sniggers in the studio, but I don't think they're laughing now after seeing what a good job you're doing in the PL.
 

robinamicrowave

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Yet there are still people that label us as a typical gritty Yorkshire team. Wonder how long it will take for that view to change
Wouldn't worry about it too much. They thought Bournemouth were too naive and frail until they stayed up quite comfortably season after season.
 

Blades1889

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It's changing. Earlier in the season I heard a host (maybe Dave Jones or Dan Walker on BBC1) mention your overlapping fullbacks to sniggers in the studio, but I don't think they're laughing now after seeing what a good job you're doing in the PL.
Wouldn't worry about it too much. They thought Bournemouth were too naive and frail until they stayed up quite comfortably season after season.
We thrive from this type of talk anyway so long may it continue.
 

robinamicrowave

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We thrive from this type of talk anyway so long may it continue.
It's been fascinating to watch you this season. It's the first time in a really long time that a newly promoted team have come up and introduced a tactical innovation to the league. I also think it's too risky for other teams to try their hand at right now, which means it'll be your thing for a while. I imagine teams will find a way to figure it out or nullify it eventually and that's when you'll figure out just how good Chris Wilder actually is. What separates truly great managers from the rest is their ability to adapt when other managers work them out - the kind of football Guardiola plays now is totally different from what he tried with Bayern and Barca, for example. Klopp's set-up at Liverpool is different to his work with Dortmund. Ferguson constantly worked out little tweaks to recycle his teams every 5/6 years. Obviously Wilder isn't on their level but if he can find a way around the obstacles when teams figure out how to keep Basham and O'Connell quiet then you could be set.
 

Nick7

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It's been fascinating to watch you this season. It's the first time in a really long time that a newly promoted team have come up and introduced a tactical innovation to the league. I also think it's too risky for other teams to try their hand at right now, which means it'll be your thing for a while. I imagine teams will find a way to figure it out or nullify it eventually and that's when you'll figure out just how good Chris Wilder actually is. What separates truly great managers from the rest is their ability to adapt when other managers work them out - the kind of football Guardiola plays now is totally different from what he tried with Bayern and Barca, for example. Klopp's set-up at Liverpool is different to his work with Dortmund. Ferguson constantly worked out little tweaks to recycle his teams every 5/6 years. Obviously Wilder isn't on their level but if he can find a way around the obstacles when teams figure out how to keep Basham and O'Connell quiet then you could be set.
Can’t wait for underlapping centre backs.
 

sincher

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Very good performance last night. They restricted Arsenal to bits and bobs and always looked more likely to score even though they didn't have that much possession.

So much to be said for both defending and attacking in numbers, and mixing it up. Stevens is a real threat down the left and the two centre halves wide of the middle man get involved in the attack too.
 

FootballHQ

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Yet there are still people that label us as a typical gritty Yorkshire team. Wonder how long it will take for that view to change
Well you were gritty in last 20 minutes but the match demanded you had to be.

When you came to Villa Park in February and went 3 up (before the out of character late collapse) I think I said on here that night you knocked the ball around our turf just as well as Leeds had two months previously.

Yet it remains Leeds get stupid hype even with them remaining in the championship.
 

Dancfc

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What I like the most about Wilder is he combines traditional football values with modern tactics almost perfectly.

How many coaches are too stuck in the past (especially in this country) or go too far the other way? He's got the balance perfectly.
 

SambaBoy

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Got a very British team who put the work in but also have a bit of quality here and there. Wilder has done an absolutely fantastic job thus far, and even if they finish 17th he deserves the manager of the year award.

Will be interesting to see if he can do at a higher level, or whether his methods won't work with higher calibre of player.
 

Blades1889

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It's been fascinating to watch you this season. It's the first time in a really long time that a newly promoted team have come up and introduced a tactical innovation to the league. I also think it's too risky for other teams to try their hand at right now, which means it'll be your thing for a while. I imagine teams will find a way to figure it out or nullify it eventually and that's when you'll figure out just how good Chris Wilder actually is. What separates truly great managers from the rest is their ability to adapt when other managers work them out - the kind of football Guardiola plays now is totally different from what he tried with Bayern and Barca, for example. Klopp's set-up at Liverpool is different to his work with Dortmund. Ferguson constantly worked out little tweaks to recycle his teams every 5/6 years. Obviously Wilder isn't on their level but if he can find a way around the obstacles when teams figure out how to keep Basham and O'Connell quiet then you could be set.
The system has been tweaked for specific games/different leagues so he’s shown that it can be adapted. This season we are playing with 3 flat midfielders rather than having an advanced 10.
 

Chaky_Best

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This thing about overlapping CB is quite odd, but teams wants to create spaces and that's a clever way to create new spaces.

Just imagine Jones and Rojo overlapping :D OMG

Na, the video is quite interesting no for the overlapping thing, but especially on how a team should play in 3-4-3. They are well organized in this formation and the 3 CB are 20 metres away, covering the entire field, with one midfielder in front.

LVG said when we tried this, that the 3-4-3 (or 3-5-2) is one of the best formation because it can creates one more line to be broken by the opponents.

Just look at how we played againt Pool. Our 3 CBs were too closed and usually you only had 5 metres between AWB and Lindelof, and Rojo and Young. It's a complete waste of time. Just look at the video on first page and you will how a wing back should push forward and not be a defender, but a wing back, someone who modify his positionning every 30 seconds
 

DWelbz19

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Sheffield are 6th place, and are currently 1 point behind Arsenal. They've conceded the fewest goals in the league at 8 also. (Leicester have conceded the same but play tomorrow).

What a serious job Wilder has done thus far.
 

tob

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Chris Wilder next in line as our manager?

I'd like a manager with the creativity to come up with something like this, and then also have the ability to get his players to execute it.
 

giorno

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Nice goal, good play, but damn, west ham :houllier: sooner they sack pellegrini the better