Should Mourinho bring in a new 'attacking coach'

[Paxi]

Strongly believe we need to bring someone in to give Jose a hand.

Despite the result we still looked very bad. I can't quite put my finger on it but it looks like we've got no identity as a team.

Jose is a pragmatist. He's always going to set his teams up not to ship goals but why can't we make transition where after the other team attack we break with devastating speed. That would make teams weary of attacking in the first place.

Even get a coach, where he can coach our players to keep the ball.

It's an area our team desperately needs work on.

 

[TMDaines]

One thing that irritates me is the final part of our prematch warm up under Mourinho.

The front six have an exercise where they take their rough shape, casually pass the ball around, doing a few flicks and taking shots against the sub and 3rd keeper. It’s so unbelievably casual and the standard of the practice is poor. There’s no focus, no slick movement, and the quality of the finishing is appalling. There’s no sense of the team mentally preparing themselves and ensuring that every shot counts, as it would in the match in 10 minutes time. We’re talking about 20% conversion with no defenders and largely shooting from inside the box

Meanwhile the defenders, including full backs(!), are not involved at all and just lull around passing the ball a bit, completely unfocussed and unstructured. No passing to the midfielders, no crossing to the forwards, etc.

Am I the only fan who notices and is irritated by this? It’s bizarre. No wonder we often start matches slowly, being out fought by the opposition. It’s so sloppy and arrogant.

 

[haram]

Strongly believe we need to bring someone in to give Jose a hand.

Despite the result we still looked very bad. I can't quite put my finger on it but it looks like we've got no identity as a team.

Jose is a pragmatist. He's always going to set his teams up not to ship goals but why can't we make transition where after the other team attack we break with devastating speed. That would make teams weary of attacking in the first place.

Even get a coach, where he can coach our players to keep the ball.

It's an area our team desperately needs work on.

Jose knows how to build a counter attacking side, he doesn't need someone to tell him how to do it.

 

[Paxi]

Jose knows how to build a counter attacking side, he doesn't need someone to tell him how to do it.

Well it has been 18 months and I've seen a handful of Counter Attacking goals. Mostly just attack without any cohesion.

 

[RedCurry]

One thing that irritates me is the final part of our prematch warm up under Mourinho.

The front six have an exercise where they take their rough shape, casually pass the ball around, doing a few flicks and taking shots against the sub and 3rd keeper. It’s so unbelievably casual and the standard of the practice is poor. There’s no focus, no slick movement, and the quality of the finishing is appalling. There’s no sense of the team mentally preparing themselves and ensuring that every shot counts, as it would in the match in 10 minutes time. We’re talking about 20% conversion with no defenders and largely shooting from inside the box

Meanwhile the defenders, including full backs(!), are not involved at all and just lull around passing the ball a bit, completely unfocussed and unstructured. No passing to the midfielders, no crossing to the forwards, etc.

Am I the only fan who notices and is irritated by this? It’s bizarre. No wonder we often start matches slowly, being out fought by the opposition. It’s so sloppy and arrogant.

No point of last minute studying if you've been slacking the whole semester.

 

[haram]

Well it has been 18 months and I've seen a handful of Counter Attacking goals. Mostly just attack without any cohesion.

Are you trying to say he doesn't know how to set up a team to counter? Yes there are problems, but like he fixed our home form, he will fix the away form along with the counters.

 

[#07]

I find threads with titles like this a little bit crazy. Historically Mourinho's teams have always scored a lot. His Madrid team was particularly prolific.

Just because Pep obsessively coaches position based attacking it doesn't mean every manager has to. There's more than one way to win a game of football.

 

[haram]

I find threads with titles like this a little bit crazy. Historically Mourinho's teams have always scored a lot. His Madrid team was particularly prolific.

Just because Pep obsessively coaches position based attacking it doesn't mean every manager has to. There's more than one way to win a game of football.

Some on here seem to think he has forgotten how he went about setting up the various teams he has managed. The Real side who won the league were devastating on the counter.

 

[#07]

Some on here seem to think he has forgotten how he went about setting up the various teams he has managed. The Real side who won the league were devastating on the counter.

We played Phil Jones in midfield against them at the Bernabeau and relied on some DeGea brilliance to keep the tie alive going into the second leg. Yet people would have you believe they were just Leicester on steriods: soak up pressure and punt it forward.

The crazy thing is Mourinho is not an unknown quanity. We have played his teams, a lot. We've also lost to them a lot. Fergie's record against Mou wasn't great.

Yet for some reason Pep Cafe has several posters who believe Jose's teams can never string two passes together.

 

[Paxi]

Are you trying to say he doesn't know how to set up a team to counter? Yes there are problems, but like he fixed our home form, he will fix the away form along with the counters.

Im trying to say he plays woeful football with no attacking ethos at all. It's all just reactionary football. Just because he once had a Real team with star studded quality playing and scoring well - that doesn't he a very good at coaching his teams to attack properly.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Yes, we need to do something, because at the moment, as I and others have said, we look clueless when we go forward.

There's no shape, no cohesion. Everyone seems to want to do the same thing, hence why we see no balance.

If I were Mourinho, I would stick to the same kind of format we saw against Palace in the second half.

He brought on Rashford, who kept the width and stretched Palace. To me, it made us look at more dangerous and less predictable. We could use the width, or sometimes mix it up and go through the middle.

Mourinho recognised this and identified it in the post match conference saying, "and immediately he created dangerous situations and immediately brought to the side and opened more spaces between defenders where our attacking players could make runs and penetrate these gaps".

So, not only did Rashfod staying wide create space for himself and stretch palace, but as Jose said, he also "opened more spaces between defenders where our attacking players could make runs and penetrate these gaps", which made it easier for the likes of Lukaku, Pogba, Mata and co. to play within.

Going forward, we should stick with an out and out winger. Someone who stretches play like Sane for City. That, with a roaming wide man and a 10 that gets in behind the striker.

We finished the Palace game with:

Lukaku
Rashford Sanchez Mata

If/when we play a 4231, I'd like to see something like that. Obviously Martial can come in for Rashford and Lingard for Sanchez, but I'd like to see something like that. Width, a runner and a roaming playmaker.

As I've mentioned before, very similar to the way Spurs set up, with Son (width), Alli (runner) and Eriksen (roaming playmaker).

 

[Paxi]

We played Phil Jones in midfield against them at the Bernabeau and relied on some DeGea brilliance to keep the tie alive going into the second leg. Yet people would have you believe they were just Leicester on steriods: soak up pressure and punt it forward.

The crazy thing is Mourinho is not an unknown quanity. We have played his teams, a lot. We've also lost to them a lot. Fergie's record against Mou wasn't great.

Yet for some reason Pep Cafe has several posters who believe Jose's teams can never string two passes together.

We were the better side until Nani sending off. Could have won at Bernabeu.

 

[Swift Football]

Well it has been 18 months and I've seen a handful of Counter Attacking goals. Mostly just attack without any cohesion.

By nature, you will only see handful of counter attack goals in any season. I could not understand why you expect us to score loads of them?! Its just that when we get fast break, many of them will not result into anything because of miss pass, wrong decisions, not being in the same page, offsides etc and we feel we are not good at that. But its same for every other team.
In fact, I would say the opposite - That we have been very good at counter attacking. Us, Liverpool and Leicester have been the teams that have produced the most from fast breaks.

 

[Paxi]

By nature, you will only see handful of counter attack goals in any season. I could not understand why you expect us to score loads of them?! Its just that when we get fast break, many of them will not result into anything because of miss pass, wrong decisions, not being in the same page, offsides etc and we feel we are not good at that. But its same for every other team.
In fact, I would say the opposite - That we have been very good at counter attacking. Us, Liverpool and Leicester have been the teams that have produced the most from fast breaks.

There are different types of attacking football. A team that concedes a lot of possession and then breaks quickly. Or a team that presses high up the pitch and counter attacks by catching the of guard or forcing mistakes.

We're just going through motions until we're 2-0 down.

 

[haram]

Yes, we need to do something, because at the moment, as I and others have said, we look clueless when we go forward.

There's no shape, no cohesion. Everyone seems to want to do the same thing, hence why we see no balance.

If I were Mourinho, I would stick to the same kind of format we saw against Palace in the second half.

He brought on Rashford, who kept the width and stretched Palace. To me, it made us look at more dangerous and less predictable. We could use the width, or sometimes mix it up and go through the middle.

Mourinho recognised this and identified it in the post match conference saying, "and immediately he created dangerous situations and immediately brought to the side and opened more spaces between defenders where our attacking players could make runs and penetrate these gaps".

So, not only did Rashfod staying wide create space for himself and stretch palace, but as Jose said, he also "opened more spaces between defenders where our attacking players could make runs and penetrate these gaps", which made it easier for the likes of Lukaku, Pogba, Mata and co. to play within.

Going forward, we should stick with an out and out winger. Someone who stretches play like Sane for City. That, with a roaming wide man and a 10 that gets in behind the striker.

We finished the Palace game with:

Lukaku
Rashford Sanchez Mata

If/when we play a 4231, I'd like to see something like that. Obviously Martial can come in for Rashford and Lingard for Sanchez, but I'd like to see something like that. Width, a runner and a roaming playmaker.

As I've mentioned before, very similar to the way Spurs set up, with Son (width), Alli (runner) and Eriksen (roaming playmaker).

We have done this all season at home.

 

[haram]

Martial/Rashford on the left
Mkhi/Lingard at 10
Mata on the right

You had people wanting Rashford on the right, or Martial closer to the striker or whatever. We break teams down and our home form is very good. People still act like Jose doesn't know what he is doing. The Palace shape 2nd half was closer to what we do at home when we try to break down teams who sit deep. It’s also not the 433 which everyone has been hooked on.

There is merit to both the 4231 and 433. Mourinho does know how to counter. Mourinho does know how to break teams down.

 

[Swift Football]

There are different types of attacking football. A team that concedes a lot of possession and then breaks quickly. Or a team that presses high up the pitch and counter attacks by catching the of guard or forcing mistakes.

We're just going through motions until we're 2-0 down.

It does not matter how a team sets up - possession or counter attack or high press, the fast break situation is same in all those setups and we have been pretty good at taking advantage of those situations unless one is expecting us to score some 12 goals from such situations.

We have not been brilliant, but the organization is there. Our biggest weakness has been our inablility to retain possession under pressure, and thus losing balls so easily and not able to build the game from back.

 

[VeevaVee]

By nature, you will only see handful of counter attack goals in any season. I could not understand why you expect us to score loads of them?! Its just that when we get fast break, many of them will not result into anything because of miss pass, wrong decisions, not being in the same page, offsides etc and we feel we are not good at that. But its same for every other team.
In fact, I would say the opposite - That we have been very good at counter attacking. Us, Liverpool and Leicester have been the teams that have produced the most from fast breaks.

Personally it's not out and out one end to the other counters I want more of, although they're great and I don't think we're very good at it. It's attacking faster when we win the ball so that we get to the final third quickly, the defenders are struggling with what to do because our attackers have pulled them around a bit, and there's space to run in to. At the moment by the time we get there they're all happy as Larry in perfect positions and we don't know what to do then.

 

[Paxi]

It does not matter how a team sets up - possession or counter attack or high press, the fast break situation is same in all those setups and we have been pretty good at taking advantage of those situations unless one is expecting us to score some 12 goals from such situations.

We have not been brilliant, but the organization is there. Our biggest weakness has been our inablility to retain possession under pressure, and thus losing balls so easily and not able to build the game from back.

No one is expecting 12 goals. Im expecting Manchester United team to be good at attacking football. We're not. We're cack!

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

We have done this all season at home.

Not all the time. Both wingers have been cutting in, at times, which leaves us very narrow.

 

[MP1711]

No one is expecting 12 goals. Im expecting Manchester United team to be good at attacking football. We're not. We're cack!

We are the third highest goalscorers in the league and have already bettered our total from last year.

 

[VeevaVee]

We are the third highest goalscorers in the league and have already bettered our total from last year.

Why do people jump to stats all the time? Everyone knows we've scored a few goals, but it's clear our attacking play is very poor when you watch games. Often way worse than lesser teams, but we have better players overall and generally come out on top. We should be aiming for more than that.

 

[haram]

Not all the time. Both wingers have been cutting in, at times, which leaves us very narrow.

When they get the ball, yes, they should cut in as well. Does Sane not come inside when they get the ball? Mata does not hug the touchline on the other side. Teams like Spurs and Liverpool are not actually better than us at breaking teams down at home.

Positions on and off the ball are different. Our home form is very good and Mourinho deserves credit. He has been doing what you want us to do in the post comparing us to Spurs, just admit it.

 

[TMDaines]

No point of last minute studying if you've been slacking the whole semester.

I’m not asking for last minute studying. I understand the difference between training/practice/intensive detailed coaching and a warm up.

There are surely two major objectives in a warm up: a) to prepare the body physically, and b) to prepare mentally. I do not see us properly doing the latter. We’re far too casual.

De Gea is the one exception this. He generally comes out earlier. Warms up physically and then does a number of focussed techinal drills (shot stopping, catching of crosses) to get his mind focussed on the skills he’ll need during the game, before going in early.

 

[MP1711]

Why do people jump to stats all the time? Everyone knows we've scored a few goals, but it's clear our attacking play is very poor when you watch games. Often way worse than lesser teams, but we have better players overall and generally come out on top. We should be aiming for more than that.

I would rather be ugly and effective than pretty and useless, we are the second most clinical team in the league behind City in terms of shot conversion. We are sixth in total shots and leading four of the five ahead of us by 17,9,4 & 2 points. I've said it before but I don't see twenty awards for most entertaining team in the Premier League in the Old Trafford trophy room.

 

[Liver_bird]

How often does this ever happen? An attacking coach will have his own ideas, and those will have a knock on effect to how Jose sets up his back line.

 

[haram]

How often does this ever happen? An attacking coach will have his own ideas, and those will have a knock on effect to how Jose sets up his back line.

People don't understand this. You have to change team shape and the lines of the midfield and defence as well.

 

[Paxi]

We are the third highest goalscorers in the league and have already bettered our total from last year.

Where did I say that I had a problems with the amount of goals we've scored?

 

[JK-27]

The only teams to have scored more goals than us in the Prem are City and Liverpool. In the Champions League group stage we scored more goals than Barcelona and more goals than Juventus (teams who are walking their domestic leagues). Yet according to the armchair managers on here we're supposed to be clueless going forward. Beggars belief some times.

People saying we should score more are idiots. You don't get more points for scoring more goals in a game. 1-0 or 10-0, its still 3 points.

 

[Paxi]

I would rather be ugly and effective than pretty and useless, we are the second most clinical team in the league behind City in terms of shot conversion. We are sixth in total shots and leading four of the five ahead of us by 17,9,4 & 2 points. I've said it before but I don't see twenty awards for most entertaining team in the Premier League in the Old Trafford trophy room.

Is it too much to ask to be effective and pretty? I mean we do call ourselves one of biggest clubs in the world.

 

[VeevaVee]

I would rather be ugly and effective than pretty and useless, we are the second most clinical team in the league behind City in terms of shot conversion. We are sixth in total shots and leading four of the five ahead of us by 17,9,4 & 2 points. I've said it before but I don't see twenty awards for most entertaining team in the Premier League in the Old Trafford trophy room.

If we played how we have in the second half of the season in the first we wouldn't be in a good position and I doubt anyone would say we're effective. In response to the first sentence, it doesn't have to be one or the other, and we don't have to play the prettiest football in the world. People just want to see a cohesive team with good movement. If we want to compete at the highest level again we're gonna have to improve it. And those trophies you mention mostly came from when we were playing far better football and had 5-8 world class players in the starting 11.

 

[Hugh Jass]

The only teams to have scored more goals than us in the Prem are City and Liverpool. In the Champions League group stage we scored more goals than Barcelona and more goals than Juventus (teams who are walking their domestic leagues). Yet according to the armchair managers on here we're supposed to be clueless going forward. Beggars belief some times.

People saying we should score more are idiots. You don't get more points for scoring more goals in a game. 1-0 or 10-0, its still 3 points.

This.

 

[Hugh Jass]

At home against the poorer teams we are grand. I can understand the tactics against good teams, home or away. It is away from home against a poor team that frustrates me. I still think against poor teams away from home we could be better.

Every pre match day thread away from home, I always say we are going to struggle because the philosophy is the same. Keep the defence tight and nick one. Now i can understand it against good teams or if we are in the CL. But against poor teams, like Palace on Monday, I feel we should dominate them like we would at home.

It is disappointing in ways because if it were City or Liverpool or Spurs, they would dominate the poorer teams regardless of whether it is home or away.

 

[VeevaVee]

There seems to be a growing number of people that would rather watch stats roll in than what's actually happening on the pitch. How anyone can think we're good in attack if they watch the games, I don't know.

Same when people said 'well at least we're good at defending' under LVG, when in reality we had lots of clean sheets because we passed the ball so conservatively that no football was ever played.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

When they get the ball, yes, they should cut in as well. Does Sane not come inside when they get the ball? Mata does not hug the touchline on the other side. Teams like Spurs and Liverpool are not actually better than us at breaking teams down at home.

Positions on and off the ball are different. Our home form is very good and Mourinho deserves credit. He has been doing what you want us to do in the post comparing us to Spurs, just admit it.

When they get the ball, yes. they should cut in. Problem is, our starting positions haven't always been correct. If we have both wingers searching for the ball inside then it becomes too narrow. Since we've put Sanchez there, this is what we've been seeing. Monday was a perfect example.

Not sure why you've gone off on one about Jose and deserving credit. I've not said we've not been good, but it's clear we don't look as fluid in attack as we should look. We're not as exciting going forward as others in the top 6. Not only can you see that by watching, but in terms of creating chances, out of the top 6 teams, we're bottom of the pile, creating 296 chances.

I think with the attacking talent we have, we should be doing a lot better.

Going back to Jose doing what Spurs do, no actually, he doesn't. Yes, in terms of the front four, I guess you could say that, but it's more than just the attacking quartet. Jose doesn't use his full backs effectively, in my opinion, which is very important in a 4231. We very rarely create attacking overloads in wide areas.

Young and Valencia's starting position is way too deep. They don't run in behind and we very rarely see them create a 2v1 because our wingers always want to hold hands with the 10.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

There seems to be a growing number of people that would rather watch stats roll in than what's actually happening on the pitch. How anyone can think we're good in attack if they watch the games, I don't know.

Stats suggest we've created the least amount of chances (296) out of the top 6. 50 less chances than our closest rivals in 5th with 346.

 

[VeevaVee]

Stats suggest we've created the least amount of chances (296) out of the top 6. 50 less chances than our closest rivals in 5th with 346.

Usually the stats people get excited about go as deep as goals scored ('we're great at attacking, what's everyone on about?!') and clean sheets ('best defence in the PL!'). These things are great but are often misused and don't paint anywhere near the full picture. I can absolutely believe we've created minimal chances in comparison to others though.

When it was the caf rage to buzz off Valencia again a little while ago, people were pulling out cross completion stats that were apparently the best in the league or something, but anyone that watched a game would see him twatting it into the first defender most of the time.

 

[haram]

When they get the ball, yes. they should cut in. Problem is, our starting positions haven't always been correct. If we have both wingers searching for the ball inside then it becomes too narrow. Since we've put Sanchez there, this is what we've been seeing. Monday was a perfect example.

Not sure why you've gone off on one about Jose and deserving credit. I've not said we've not been good, but it's clear we don't look as fluid in attack as we should look. We're not as exciting going forward as others in the top 6. Not only can you see that by watching, but in terms of creating chances, out of the top 6 teams, we're bottom of the pile, creating 296 chances.

I think with the attacking talent we have, we should be doing a lot better.

Going back to Jose doing what Spurs do, no actually, he doesn't. Yes, in terms of the front four, I guess you could say that, but it's more than just the attacking quartet. Jose doesn't use his full backs effectively, in my opinion, which is very important in a 4231. We very rarely create attacking overloads in wide areas.

Young and Valencia's starting position is way too deep. They don't run in behind and we very rarely see them create a 2v1 because our wingers always want to hold hands with the 10.

You said we should play like this

Lukaku
Rashford Sanchez Mata

You spoke about Son Alli and Eriksen. That 3 is similar to Rashford, Lingard and Mata. Everyone will admit that.

Which is what we do at home (Lingard in for Sanchez for most of the season). We score just as much as Spurs and Liverpool at home and have a better record. We do set up like that already, so I don't get your post rambling about we should play like we did vs Palace, when we have done that all season.

 

[Rajma]

Stats suggest we've created the least amount of chances (296) out of the top 6. 50 less chances than our closest rivals in 5th with 346.

Our players deserve a lot of credit in fact for being this clinical, imagine if they have similar amount of chances to score from as our rivals, that's were untapped potential lies within this team.

 

[Minimalist]

Absolutely delusional to think we're great in attack, that's all I'm saying.

Nobody would have a fecking issue if we were good counter attacking side that punished sides on the break.

Also nobody is questioning what Mourinho accomplished at Chelsea, Madrid or wherever. It's a judgement on his attacking output with Manchester United.

It's not dreadful overall (over the course of the season) but I still don't see a plan. Everything is driven by individuals.