Should we de-brand our youth set-up?

[Scholsey2004]

We've seen a few examples now of United youth products having developed unwelcome behaviour and attitudes, largely, you would presume, as a result of excessive aggrandising of those individuals at an early age. Perhaps a certain degree of celebrity means these boys find it very easy to acquire women which in turn can create some negative attitudes in the individual if he becomes very used to getting his way.

With this in mind would there be any benefit to re-branding the youth teams to no longer include 'Manchester United' in the title to break the perception of these kids being Manchester United players and the associated celebrity that comes with that?

 

[kthanksbye]

But you want to create characters who are able to handle the pressures that comes with being a ManUtd player, and you want these players to be ready for it early.
Not sure how distancing them from the ManUtd brand is going to help with that.

 

[Scholsey2004]

But you want to create characters who are able to handle the pressures that comes with being a ManUtd player, and you want these players to be ready for it early.
Not sure how distancing them from the ManUtd brand is going to help with that.

I think a lot of the preperation for playing for United could start at the point where they legally become adults, which is typically a year or two before they get a debut here or elsewhere.

 

[Lentwood]

It's incredibly difficult. Unfortunately, there are some people who just won't be able to handle it and will inevitably let it go to their head.

It's a position 99.999% of this forum have never/will never be in. Imagine everybody telling you you were special rom 5 years old. Imagine being 16 years old, in 6th Form and tipped for stardom at Manchester United. Imagine being 18, breaking into the 1st-team and scoring a few goals. Imagine being 20 and having 5m followers on Instagram and an inbox full of messages from incredibly attractive women, hangers-on and other 'celebrities' just wanting to hang-out and be your mate.

The club need to do everything they can to support, but invariably some will become narcissistic ego-maniacs who blow-up their talent.

 

[Stobzilla]

We are talking about 2 cases in how many?

This is just a really bizarre suggestion to me and it would instantly weaken our position from a recruitment perspective.

 

[golden_blunder]

But you want to create characters who are able to handle the pressures that comes with being a ManUtd player, and you want these players to be ready for it early.
Not sure how distancing them from the ManUtd brand is going to help with that.

Agreed
Maybe step up the educational side
Stop paying them too much money too soon. Put some into a trust if you need to entice
Have them cleaning the boots etc like in the old days
Engage with parents more to see if their child is changing or how they are getting on

 

[SirAF]

Agreed
Maybe step up the educational side
Stop paying them too much money too soon. Put some into a trust if you need to entice
Have them cleaning the boots etc like in the old days
Engage with parents more to see if their child is changing or how they are getting on

Totally agree with this.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

We've seen a few examples now of United youth products having developed unwelcome behaviour and attitudes, largely, you would presume, as a result of excessive aggrandising of those individuals at an early age. Perhaps a certain degree of celebrity means these boys find it very easy to acquire women which in turn can create some negative attitudes in the individual if he becomes very used to getting his way.

With this in mind would there be any benefit to re-branding the youth teams to no longer include 'Manchester United' in the title to break the perception of these kids being Manchester United players and the associated celebrity that comes with that?

Firstly 99% of the young players at United have steady girlfriends which is evident from their social media accounts. So this 'acquiring women' is a very strange statement. Don't all youngsters in every day life date each other? There is no evidence or suggestion that these lads' relationships are affected by the fact they play for United or any other football team or they have 'negative attitudes'.

Secondly, in terms of 'excessive aggrandising'...I would say it's the opposite. Not only do all the United juniors get plenty of grounded support and reinforcement, but when they go out on loan every other club manager and coaching staff comments on how well behaved they are and are a credit to United. We have over 15 juniors out on loan and their behaviour has been impeccable.

Any suggestion of 're-branding' is incredibly strange. I don't think for a minute that our juniors' perceptions of anything is wrong or negative.

There have been 200-300 Academy players in the last decade or so and 99.9% have had no issues. This isn't an Academy issue.

You are trying to join dots that don't exist.

 

[Reapersoul20]

I wonder could we look into corporal punishment being allowed again for Manchester United teams? I feel the not only the youth, but especially the senior team would benefit from this. We could start a petition for Man Utd to be allowed use it on an exceptional basis. Then we could look to re-hire Marcus Rojo so he can maraude from team-to-team, bare-chested, kicking the shit out of anyone who steps out of line.

Makes about as much sense as OP .

 

[mu4c_20le]

Agreed
Maybe step up the educational side
Stop paying them too much money too soon. Put some into a trust if you need to entice
Have them cleaning the boots etc like in the old days
Engage with parents more to see if their child is changing or how they are getting on

I think this is much easier said than done. I think our wage structure is already out of control, made worse by the Sanchezs and other overpaid stars that we lured here. This has a knock on effect on our up and coming youngsters like Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, all demanding parity or close to it when they extend. So when academy youngsters impress and its time to sign a new deal, their agents will just point at our wage structure and demand 5x what other clubs are paying, etc. It's something that is beyond the managers control, and is up to the board to fix.

 

[LInkash]

Greenwood will be a cautionary tale. With such a high profile talent ruining his career and life, every youngster at the club will be aware of this and know what the consequences are for going down the wrong path.

 

[Alemar]

It’s more about morals and attitude. The club shall encourage additional training, additional education for its younger players, but strongly discourage any sort of partying, any signs of luxurious lifestyle and in general any activities that may distract young guys from football or create not good enough image.

It would also be wise to pay a significant portion of their salaries to escrow accounts - but it might not be legally possible in the UK (and even then banks would always be ready to grant loans against these escrowed funds as collateral).

 

[11101]

I don't like the way every young footballer is being tarred with the same brush. Let's stop with that. We've got one player in our team who went very wrong somewhere along the way. That's all. The rest are just doing what footballers have always done.

 

[Dan_F]

I wonder could we look into corporal punishment being allowed again for Manchester United teams? I feel the not only the youth, but especially the senior team would benefit from this. We could start a petition for Man Utd to be allowed use it on an exceptional basis. Then we could look to re-hire Marcus Rojo so he can maraude from team-to-team, bare-chested, kicking the shit out of anyone who steps out of line.

Makes about as much sense as OP .

After what I’ve read in the last couple of days, I actually thought you were being serious when I read the first sentence. Then the more I read, the more I agreed with it and feel like we can implement it for in-game mistakes that the first team make.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

No. I think you just continue to educate the young men how to behave. It's not the club crest on their shirts that causes them to beat and rape women, nor the culture of entitlement. Maybe more education on what constitutes abuse (more than just physical abuse), that 'no' means 'no', taking measures to end the 'lad culture' that surrounds these young players, and maybe some sort of conduct clause in their contracts.

What MG is believed to have done goes far beyond being a rich, entitled piece of shit. That's sociopathic behavior. I'm sure the signs were there a long time ago and no one reported it. Before the players turn 18 they should perhaps have someone from the club looking after them if their parents and guardians are not around. A club chaperone?

 

[Longshanks]

Whatever you do there will always be scumbags, sometimes those scumbags will be very talented and will be given chances in the hope that questionable personality traits are nothing more than a teenagers hormones. Unfortunately that isn't always the case and there will always be some that slip through the net.

Education, upbringing dosent really make that much difference if they are just horrible individuals. As is often the case.

 

[Alemar]

We've got one player in our team who went very wrong somewhere along the way. That's all.

That’s not all, sadly. We had different cases - player driving without valid driving license, player being involved in bar fights, players partying during COVID outbreaks… All of this is unacceptable.

One player has gone too far (and will certainly pay his dues now), but it’s not like all the others are role models for society at all times.

 

[Pogba's Barber]

No. Mentality and attitude are as important as skill and fitness for a player.

If they don't have the right temperament, young players simply wont make it at a top team. I'm sure the club does all that it reasonably can do to educate and mentor young players into leading a good personal life - players have to take responsibility for their actions.

In some young players, the club name will inspire them to be the best version of themselves. In others, not sure much. United can take great pride in the huge amount of outstanding young professional footballers they has produced throughout the decades (including those that don't quite make it at Old Trafford and go on to have long, successful careers at other top flight clubs)

 

[11101]

That’s not all, sadly. We had different cases - player driving without valid driving license, player being involved in bar fights, players partying during COVID outbreaks… All of this is unacceptable.

One player has gone too far (and will certainly pay his dues now), but it’s not like all the others are role models for society at all times.

None of that is anything new and has been going on since George Best's day.

The OP is suggesting this is all a recent trend.

 

[buchansleftleg]

One of the strengths in the past of the United academy has been it's reputation for producing good, hardworking professional players, whatever their ability. It's that reputation that has secured jobs for young academy prospects that don't make the grade at United, but secure a place at a lower league club and are seen to work hard / be respectful of Managers etc.

This can be seen as a great part of the "Networking" approach that pays dividends in the long run. The lower level clubs might get a young talent on loan in the future and may also be more amenable if they uncover some local talent that we have not picked up.

We have to obviously evaluate what has gone on, given recent events, but it is important to not throw out generations of goodwill and informal scouting networks because of what may have turned out to be a couple of bad apples.

I do think however that Manchester City have had a great approach in securing a place at St Bede's for all their academy prospects as this offers a great mixture of a sound academic backup plan for those who may not make it, and it also ensures they are not getting the sort of adulation they might get as the "one special kid" at their existing school.

 

[TheReligion]

What a ridiculous knee jerk thread

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Agreed
Maybe step up the educational side
Stop paying them too much money too soon. Put some into a trust if you need to entice
Have them cleaning the boots etc like in the old days
Engage with parents more to see if their child is changing or how they are getting on

The old days when young players were abused and there was a toxic bullying culture that ran through most dressing rooms?

If you start treating young players like crap they’ll just go elsewhere.

Utd is a club that has no direction from the top, City is a club that has strong leadership - yet BOTH have had problems with players behaviour.

The issue is broader than football, it’s about the World that these people are born in to and that shapes them. It’s about flawed economic structures and quickly changing moral compasses (things kids grow up seeing at home from parents / grandparents vs what is acceptable today).

When talking about young people, it’s also about the absolute shithole of a society they’ve been born into - utter chaos from every direction, rotten, toxic ‘leaders’, divisive race politics everywhere, a Pandemic with no seeming end, being born into social media and it’s well documented psychological effects.

These things create emotional instability in their formative years - which in turn, will equal them acting out, and in some cases becoming anti-social, hitting back at the society that is hurting them.

Cleaning boots etc, sadly won’t cut it.

We need to create a better world for them I’m afraid.

 

[shaky]

We've seen a few examples now of United youth products having developed unwelcome behaviour and attitudes, largely, you would presume, as a result of excessive aggrandising of those individuals at an early age. Perhaps a certain degree of celebrity means these boys find it very easy to acquire women which in turn can create some negative attitudes in the individual if he becomes very used to getting his way.

With this in mind would there be any benefit to re-branding the youth teams to no longer include 'Manchester United' in the title to break the perception of these kids being Manchester United players and the associated celebrity that comes with that?

You may presume that the recent behaviour issues are largely down to being excessively aggrandized in the Utd youth set-up, but on the other hand, there are plenty of people in the world who display similar behaviour without ever having kicked a football, so perhaps it's down to the individual's character more than anything else. Some people are just trash, and would be trash whether they're playing for Utd or working down the local pub. Removing Utd branding from our youth team wouldn't change anything anyway. It would still be the Utd youth team and everyone would know that.

 

[swedishgloryhunter]

This is not a united problem, this is a worldwide problem.

United as a club has done what they can so far, just hope they didnt know about this before and have covered it up..

It's a social problem that needs to be adressed in each country and treated the same, by harsh laws and by supporting the victims.

 

[Robertd0803]

It's incredibly difficult. Unfortunately, there are some people who just won't be able to handle it and will inevitably let it go to their head.

It's a position 99.999% of this forum have never/will never be in. Imagine everybody telling you you were special rom 5 years old. Imagine being 16 years old, in 6th Form and tipped for stardom at Manchester United. Imagine being 18, breaking into the 1st-team and scoring a few goals. Imagine being 20 and having 5m followers on Instagram and an inbox full of messages from incredibly attractive women, hangers-on and other 'celebrities' just wanting to hang-out and be your mate.

The club need to do everything they can to support, but invariably some will become narcissistic ego-maniacs who blow-up their talent.

All while making the kind of money most of us will never see on a weekly basis. Even a young player on a few grand a week will automatically be operating on a different level to his mates from a very early age and theres a massive disconnect.

 

[L1nk]

I see your general point, and it's definitely something that should be looked into, in the sense that giving young players who haven't fully grown both physically and mentally yet, the world, all that money and fame is bound to go to their heads and unless their head is screwed on correctly, it's not going to have a positive effect. However you're completely alleviating personal responsibility here, in that, as others have said in this thread, there are people who act the same way who have never kicked a football for anybody, or who have never been paid such ludicrous wages or shot the highest of highs fame wise.

The real issue is that no matter what the club does, what anyone does, whether that's friends, family, a person's upbringing etc, some people are just pieces of shit and will act how they want to act regardless, I feel like it's easy to say "we need to teach a generation of men not to act and behave this way" but the reality I feel is that you can raise men to be respectful and so on, but there are just awful people in the world who won't take that on board and have problems regardless.

We've had youth players at United who have gone on to be massive stars and have not been problematic in the slightest, so i'm not sure the problem lies within the Youth Academy unless the players aren't getting the support they need at the club, which they should be and would be a worry on my part if they weren't

 

[Herman Toothrot]

We need to put an end to the system with keeps creating monsters like Marcus Rashford. Maybe just stop and don't post anything for a few days.

 

[Plant0x84]

To answer OP, no. It’s not about taking Man Utd out of the picture, but it should be about taking responsibility for these young boys and educating them in a way which creates great humans that represent the best of our club, not simply creating great footballers. Preparing them for fame and fortune is as important as a good education, and good coaching.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

This is not a united problem, this is a worldwide problem.

United as a club has done what they can so far, just hope they didnt know about this before and have covered it up..

It's a social problem that needs to be adressed in each country and treated the same, by harsh laws and by supporting the victims.

Agree with the support the victim part, but we need to also be educating and supporting young people before they’ve made these mistakes and fecked up society.

Older generations (by that I mean ANYONE over 35 - myself included) have been very self obsessed and also dismissive of the younger generations coming up.

The politics that we’ve accepted and allowed to play out is disgusting, the state of the planet is chaotic and simply punishing them and their reaction to it won’t stop the cycle from getting worse and then repeating.

We need to start leading, and thinking like leaders, rather than just repeating the same failed mantras that we heard, or that worked in a previous, different World.

The younger generation is ALWAYS a reflection of the World it’s been born into.

Social media is OUR creation, not theirs, we’ve accepted the current political climate that they now have to navigate, celebrity culture is OUR doing, not theirs.

In short, we need to own our shit and start sorting the World out, not kicking down.

 

[Alemar]

some people are just pieces of shit and will act how they want to act regardless

But it may be spotted early on, during academy years. It’s up to a club to sanction or terminate youngsters if it is the case

 

[Raoul]

We've seen a few examples now of United youth products having developed unwelcome behaviour and attitudes, largely, you would presume, as a result of excessive aggrandising of those individuals at an early age. Perhaps a certain degree of celebrity means these boys find it very easy to acquire women which in turn can create some negative attitudes in the individual if he becomes very used to getting his way.

With this in mind would there be any benefit to re-branding the youth teams to no longer include 'Manchester United' in the title to break the perception of these kids being Manchester United players and the associated celebrity that comes with that?

Leave it as is but add more education and courses on how to deal with money, fame, what you can and can't do etc.

 

[lex talionis]

The sprit behind the suggestion is welcome, but what these young men need is better guidance from the coaching and educational staff.

Mason does seem a one-off, so we definitely don’t need to panic with a rebranding. Marcus turned out great. Scott is by all accounts a decent lad. Jesse only turned into headcase in his mid 20s and even then it can be argued he’s only looking to squeeze out cash while he can. Others coming through seem very well grounded.

 

[Ballache]

I don't think United are to blame so no.
Same system produced Rashford so...

 

[Wumminator]

I have literally worked with kids who are in United’s youth setup who the club check up on and ensure they’re doing well in education etc. They’re great at this.

 

[alexanderplatz]

The norm should be that they go out on loan early unless they show exceptional talent. They need to show they can perform and that will build the required character. The ones who just want to live off the name but not do much outside of training will naturally fall off. Unfortunately with the levels of money involved it has to be like this but ultimately it will pay off

 

[Zen86]

There’s certainly a big time charlie culture that’s developed at the club since Fergie left, we’re not the first club to have had it. It’s what happens when you don’t ship out the bad attitudes nor take personalities into account when recruiting.

That said, clubs can’t stop players doing d**khead things.

 

[Red_toad]

Agreed
Maybe step up the educational side
Stop paying them too much money too soon. Put some into a trust if you need to entice
Have them cleaning the boots etc like in the old days
Engage with parents more to see if their child is changing or how they are getting on

Don't pay them enough they go elsewhere, much like if you treat them old school and expect them to clean boots. I don't think many 20 year old's tell their parents how they beat their girlfriends on the weekend. I'd say best club could do is regular contact with counsellors & or psychologists. Some of the youngsters just go off the rails, but it's a very select few, they make their own choices and the club can't control them 24/7.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I get the idea but it won't make a difference, they'd still be United's youth team even if you called them Real Salford FC juniors.

There is a limit to what the club can control here, this is an issue across all of football since the big money came in and time has slowly filtered out the types of personality who probably kept a lot of these players in check. When you hear about Gerrard, Lampard, Neville coming through, that was probably the last generation where there was a focus on humbling the new players coming through, imagine trying to get one of these U18's now to clean a players boots. Not a chance.

 

[Beachryan]

There are countless interviews and podcasts and what not with ex-Academy players, and pretty much to a man they come across really, really well. Don't believe there's any kind of systemic problem here, if anything I'd wager that Mason's attitude probably alienated him from lots of the others.

 

[We need an rvn]

I get the idea but it won't make a difference, they'd still be United's youth team even if you called them Real Salford FC juniors.

There is a limit to what the club can control here, this is an issue across all of football since the big money came in and time has slowly filtered out the types of personality who probably kept a lot of these players in check. When you hear about Gerrard, Lampard, Neville coming through, that was probably the last generation where there was a focus on humbling the new players coming through, imagine trying to get one of these U18's now to clean a players boots. Not a chance.

Took the words out of my mouth.

I'd also add that the players these days, even younger ones, are on Instagram and getting thousands, if not million followers at times. There will be pressure from agents and sponsors to promote their brands and get their name out there. All this will inflate 17 year old ego and there's not much the club can do other than educate the young players to focus on football and highlight how quickly things can fall apart if they let fame go to their head.

But de-brand the youth set up - no chance - we should make it a place that is famed for producing home grown talent - wait.......that's what we do!

2 feck ups doesn't mean we have a bad set up.