Not right now
What if Sancho doesn't adapt very well ? Or if other players get injured. Do we have enough squad depth ?
What if Sancho doesn't adapt very well ? Or if other players get injured. Do we have enough squad depth ?
Should we sell Dan James? - Leeds move confirmed
- Thread starter RiqCantona
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A man who thinks his opinion is gospel.....All I can say is thank the lord you're not managing United
Amads a talent alright, but very very raw and is not at James level currently. I don't see how anyone can argue against that.
Quite simply James offers more than Amad, however that may change throughout the season depending on Amads development.
I'd certainly expect Sancho to be playing at least a level above James even if he doesn't adapt well.
We have 4-5 players that are ahead of James in the pecking order, we'd be stupid having a £20m player in the squad as backup of a backup.
Says a person who can't take someone highlighting that their opinion is based on nothing other than their feelings...and no actual truth or fact.
You have a difference of opinion to mine which is fine, but surely an opinion has to be based on a foundation of evidence in order to be believed?
The answer to these questions isn't Daniel James.
Wouldn't sell yet.
Sancho has only just arrived, Rashford is carrying an injury that may need an operation and the Atheltic were reporting that Amad may yet be sent out on loan. Better to be overstocked on bodies than caught short.
Sancho has only just arrived, Rashford is carrying an injury that may need an operation and the Atheltic were reporting that Amad may yet be sent out on loan. Better to be overstocked on bodies than caught short.
There is evidence. It's about how you interpret it or value it.Says a person who can't take someone highlighting that their opinion is based on nothing other than their feelings...and no actual truth or fact.
You have a difference of opinion to mine which is fine, but surely an opinion has to be based on a foundation of evidence in order to be believed?
There is evidence Amad is more technical. There is evidence he is more skilful. There is evidence he has better vision.
To me that makes him better. To you it doesn't. To say there is no evidence just cause you don't like my opinion is absurd.
What your evidence that James is better? Just cause he played more? Cause that ain't evidence. Obviously James is better and some stuff as well.
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Talking about James being more of a finished product is a tad ludicrous imo. We all hoped that he would be somewhat of a finished product by now - but that clearly hasn't happened. Both him and Amad need to develop - so I would rather give his minutes to an 18 year old.
I agree, he's a squad player and we might still need him at some point. But I really don't understand what exactly he has done to cement his place on the bench. As someone who might come off the bench or start in cup games, Amad clearly should get the opportunities instead of him. And that's not because of the talent or potential either, Amad is 5-6 years younger than him and clearly has the room to develop more. Because frankly, the difference between them is marginal in terms of talent. James perhaps has accumulated experience the past 2 years.
I agree, he's a squad player and we might still need him at some point. But I really don't understand what exactly he has done to cement his place on the bench. As someone who might come off the bench or start in cup games, Amad clearly should get the opportunities instead of him. And that's not because of the talent or potential either, Amad is 5-6 years younger than him and clearly has the room to develop more. Because frankly, the difference between them is marginal in terms of talent. James perhaps has accumulated experience the past 2 years.
True. Unfortunately, James is 4th choice in RW after Sancho, Greenwood, and Amad.
I want to see Sancho Greenwood and Amad before I see James on the right. And I want to see Rashford Sancho and Martial before I see James on the left. His value is still good now and we can get our money back. But let's keep him as the 3rd to 4th choice while also expecting him to improve before finally selling him at a loss when its painfully obvious hes not needed
It flew right over my headThat was a reference to Lingard forever being a promising young player
Rather these promising youngsters get proper football away from loan than make 11 appearances a season - they won’t even get half that. I rate Elanga highly too, he needs game time to develop. James is the perfect squad player to keep with us for at least a few more years. He’s still a better player than all the kids. It’s literally win-win, we have a great wing options, a handy squad player, some promising youngsters. Perfect stop gap in case of injuries and space enough for the kids to get game time away from us.
The thing about loans is you can't and shouldn't force them. The staff need to think the loan is right for their development. It's hard finding a good loan because most other clubs aren't incentivized to develop a player they don't own. If they're just there to be on the bench, they're better off training with the first team, with those 11 appearances and some u21 games. Amad and Elanga will both be 19 this season. There's no rush.
For a club with a good academy, a backup's backup is really only necessary for goalkeepers. A few others we have (Matic, Mata) are veteran players content with little game time. If James barely plays and wants to force a move next season, what will it do for his value?
And even if we loaned out both Amad and Elanga, take a look:
Greenwood
Rashford
Sancho
Martial
Mata
Pogba
(Lingard)
(Chong)
You really want to keep Dan James around in case they're all injured? And even if they were, are you that adverse to throwing an academy lad in (Sholatire? or playing someone out of position (Bruno LW for example)?
I only see a role for James if we sell Martial (because the others mentioned are certainly staying) and we find a loan for both of the lads. And that is assuming we sell Chong and Lingard.
We're not lacking in depth, and with Sancho coming in, Mata extending, someone has to leave. James is the weakest out of the bunch (assuming Martial isn't as shit as last season) and he holds value which will diminish without proper game time.
I don't buy the "squad option" argument. James off the bench is best when we have space to use his pace and we need his discipline with defending. That usually means we're leading the game. I'd call that a luxury sub.
Where's the evidence that Amad is better technically? And also does that mean he's a better player?
James has played senior football for a fair few years. Has just come off the back of a major international tournament having played very well and impressed.
Amad has played a handful of senior games, and whilst showing glimpses of his talent, has offered little above what James can already do.
What you are proposing is allowing a developing player game time as a squad option, over an already established squad player.
Look at Chelsea with Gilmour, they could have used him but feel he isn't quite ready for the first team so have loaned him out, I feel the same thing will be done with Amad at United.
Where is the evidence that Amad has better skill, vision and technicality over James in senior football?
The simple fact is selling James and relying on Amad as backup on the right wing is a massive gamble, and surely even you can't deny that!
Definitely. He is the most mediocre player in our squad, and honestly has no business playing for us. A good lad and hopefully can make a career on EPL, but I would much rather give his minutes to Amad and Pellestri.
Cavani, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Bruno for four positions with Amad, Pellestri and Engala from kids and the occasional times Pogba plays there should be more than enough. I do not see how James, Mata and Lingard can get minutes.
Cavani, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Bruno for four positions with Amad, Pellestri and Engala from kids and the occasional times Pogba plays there should be more than enough. I do not see how James, Mata and Lingard can get minutes.
I would let him go, yes. He will get better but he won’t get enough games to do that here. £10-12m wouldn’t be derisory.
Depends on multiple factors. If Diallo and Pellestri are ready to challenge for a place in the squad, and if Martial decides to stay, then there is no room for Dan James. He's clearly not good enough to be a United player, we all know that by now, so if we get something in the region of £15 million quid, then sell him on.
I wouldn't call it a risk because I reckon both of their playing time will be very limited next season.
With the addition of Sancho they are very far down the pecking order.
James is a kick and run merchant. Amad is a technical dribbler.
Look at the stats.
In a total of 48 league appearances over 2 seasons, he has scored 6 goals and 7 assists. Of those 6 goals, 3 came in his first 4 games (when he was an unknown entity). So basically, he has notched up 3 goals and 7 assists in 44 appearances since - and even those have come in a cluster, during brief periods of good form. Can you really bank on him, a young winger/forward to be a game changer when you bring him on? Hardly.
And even after 2 full seasons, his improvement has been marginal. He still cannot cross, pass, or shoot at the expected level - the 3 basic things you look for in a winger. His positioning and reading of the game still leaves a lot to be desired for. All he has is pace, not even a good dribbler. Doesn't it seem strange that not one side of his game has dramatically improved in 2 years? And he's 23 (going to be 24). He should be approaching his peak in a couple of years time. Compare him to other wingers of that same age - they are miles and miles ahead of him.
But if you do think that his development has been satisfactory over the past 2 seasons, then we should stop this argument right here.
Depends on what we would get for him.
he is a decent squad option. But if someone gives us our money back for him, then yes I’d take
he is a decent squad option. But if someone gives us our money back for him, then yes I’d take
I am just baffled by the people here who want to keep him as a squad option, and they are probably the same people who moan about other teams (Liverpool & Chelsea) getting good prices for their players. The key is to identify early on whether a player is good enough for you or not and then selling the player when his stock is high.
For James and Lingard both are not first team players, the next obvious question is whether we have better squad options, yes we have better squad options (Martial, Greenwood & Amad) assuming Sancho and Rashford starts.
Therefore for both him and Lingard this is the time, Lingard has performed very well at Westham but that is his level, similarly James is a good player for premier league upcoming sides and his stock is high because of his reasonable performances in Euro 2020.
It would again be very Utd like to retain Lingard this summer as a squad option and not not use him during the season, eventually letting him go for free next season. While, for James keeping him again and then next summer we would be lucky to get 5 million Pounds for him. Whereas we can easily recoup 40-50 Million pounds for both of these players this summer.
For James and Lingard both are not first team players, the next obvious question is whether we have better squad options, yes we have better squad options (Martial, Greenwood & Amad) assuming Sancho and Rashford starts.
Therefore for both him and Lingard this is the time, Lingard has performed very well at Westham but that is his level, similarly James is a good player for premier league upcoming sides and his stock is high because of his reasonable performances in Euro 2020.
It would again be very Utd like to retain Lingard this summer as a squad option and not not use him during the season, eventually letting him go for free next season. While, for James keeping him again and then next summer we would be lucky to get 5 million Pounds for him. Whereas we can easily recoup 40-50 Million pounds for both of these players this summer.
Let me know when he looks great again
I mean sure if there's a meaningful bid. But no there's no reason to sell him for a few million just to get him out.
But I can watch James for 5 minutes and know he'll not ever improve past close to what he is now, his footballing instincts are just too slow and he's not technically gifted enough to make up for it.
But I can watch James for 5 minutes and know he'll not ever improve past close to what he is now, his footballing instincts are just too slow and he's not technically gifted enough to make up for it.
He can definitely be a useful squad player. A sale is only sensible if we're getting some decent cash, or it is in part exchange. If we're just recouping what we paid, then a buy-back / sell-on clause would definitely be in order.
I think he'll stay and prove useful though.
I think he'll stay and prove useful though.
And Amads stats are better right?
Again, I reiterate my point, he's a squad player, and one who is very useful.
Amad over James right now is a gamble and one which United cannot take right now.
As much as you would hate to admit it, James is a better squad player than an untried, unproven 18 year old with mere minutes in senior football.
You can't argue that, as Rafa would say, they are fahcts....
Not really, they are second in command on the right, the Rashford experiment didn't pay off, so leaves is with James, Sancho and Amad as the Right sided players.
Sell. I’d bite the hands off anyone willing to pay £20m plus, which is quite possible considering he’s had a half decent euros, is still relatively young and does have a fair bit of experience at this point.
We’re far too stacked for a player as limited as him to get minutes.
Left -
Rashford
Martial
Sancho
Amad
Elanga (more promise than James)
Pogba
Right -
Sancho
Greenwood
Amad
Rashford/Martial/Pogba/Mata (all who is rather than him).
Elanga
We’re far too stacked for a player as limited as him to get minutes.
Left -
Rashford
Martial
Sancho
Amad
Elanga (more promise than James)
Pogba
Right -
Sancho
Greenwood
Amad
Rashford/Martial/Pogba/Mata (all who is rather than him).
Elanga
If he was a CM or CB, I would agree with you. What are you afraid of, that if we needed to win an important match, Amad won't be able to contribute to our attack? From what we've seen so far, James won't either, so I can't see what we're losing.
There is more downside (he doesn't play, we end up selling for peanuts) than upside (he gives us better performance than Amad, which is debatable) to keeping him.
Greenwood will still be first choice backup on the right.
While we might consider Rashford a failed experiment on the right he will still start out there when needed over playing James.
Assuming no one leaves we will see a lot of combos.
No we need a big squad
No one can give us the kind of pace James has
No one can give us the kind of pace James has
You not get the feeling Greenwood might be used more centrally this season?
Ole seems to really like him so I doubt he's thinking of selling.
We're turning into deadwood FC again renewing the likes of Mata and possibly keeping Lingard, it feels. We've got a million attacking players. James should be sold and the money reinvested in an area of weakness.
We're turning into deadwood FC again renewing the likes of Mata and possibly keeping Lingard, it feels. We've got a million attacking players. James should be sold and the money reinvested in an area of weakness.
The evidence that Amad is better technically? It's right there. Just watch the two dribble or control a ball. It's quite easy to see. You're talking about effectiveness. For example, Chicha was a proven double digits scorer for United from 2011-2013. Doesn't mean that he was better technically than Januzaj who was just about to make the step up to senior football. Your technical ability largely doesn't change as you age. Or another example, Ravel is the more technical player compared to James. Technical ability has nothing to do with how you fare in senior football. Technical ability doesn't make someone a better player automatically. But it is a fact that Amad is better on a technical level.
Keep James on a squad man option for another season.
Unless Sancho is injured, he will always be given a run of games, regardless of performance, until Xmas. A better treat than VDB. So a loan deal for either James or Amad could be the option. I doubt any club will pay for Amad (loan) so James is the person to go. But if someone offer 20m then of course sell while you can.
Covid has put a damper on demand in the market, but if a good asking price comes in for him than I would like to see him sold off.
I hear Brighton is interested in him, Leeds were interested in him as well at one point.
Ideally it would be nice if Jesse Lingard and Daniel James were sold as a package to West Ham in order to obtain Declan Rice.
100 mill is a lot to ask for a defensive midfielder though. Might be better to look abroad for a CDM.
I hear Brighton is interested in him, Leeds were interested in him as well at one point.
Ideally it would be nice if Jesse Lingard and Daniel James were sold as a package to West Ham in order to obtain Declan Rice.
100 mill is a lot to ask for a defensive midfielder though. Might be better to look abroad for a CDM.
This entirely.
Amad has played minimal minutes in senior football, and when he has played he hasn't looked fully ready. Mere flashes of what he is capable of.
James however has contributed when he has played and is a ready made squad player.
Amad will be sent out on loan I'm sure, which is exactly what he needs to develop.
James plays a useful squad role on our team, the way the likes of Park Ji Sung or O'Shea were doing back then. He can be extremely useful against certain oppositions. He doesn't have to be a world-beater; not everyone on SAF's team is a world beater.
He sucks against low block oppositions, but for oppositions who likes to push their defence line high and crowd the midfield, him being on the field helps to peg the opposition lines back for fear of being caught on the break.
He sucks against low block oppositions, but for oppositions who likes to push their defence line high and crowd the midfield, him being on the field helps to peg the opposition lines back for fear of being caught on the break.
Yeah, no, that's not how it works. You can't just take out a goal scoring run for any reason (because he was an "unkown entity"). By that logic, Greenwood has 1 goal and 1 assist in 22 league appearances last season (if you take out his goal scoring form in the last couple of games).
If your criticism is James is streaky, fine, but there's no need to make him seem less productive.
You're ignoring the fact Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho are just as rapid as James. And if they're not they make up the small difference with superior technical ability. Elanga seems very fast as well.
We play against a lot of low blocks, because it's a very effective strategy against us. Also, even teams that usually play a high line, will leave less space when they're leading the game. That makes it very rare for James to be a useful impact sub. If we need a goal versus a parked bus in the last 15 minutes I'd rather see Amad who can maybe find an opening with a killer pass.
James' skill sett just isn't a good fit for us.
Sell Forrest Gump, he's one dimensional and doesn't have the brain to improve. His decision making is awful and can't put weight on a simple pass. He would do a job for mid to lower table club, not one hoping to compete for the biggest trophies. His attributes are all based on speed, he would suit Leeds with his stamina. More a running athlete than a footballer.
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