Should we try Bruno in the right wide forward position?

Leftback99

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If we must start Pogba then yes. Or Pogba plays on the right or left himself. Just get him out of the CM role.
 

Borys

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I'd rather shift Pogba far wide.

Behind the sideline, on the bench.

Let's experiment with using players in their nominal positions.
 

TMDaines

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I think even as a box to box in a 3 Pogba needs to work an awful lot harder to keep his place. If we are getting back to basics and trying to not ship so many goals we need to take matic and Pogba out and go back to fighting hard instead of coasting through games
If you play McT, Fred and Bruno you still have three midfielders who all want to run about and be proactive. Our midfield has nobody who is positionally disciplined.
 

romufc

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WHy do we need to change other peoples favourite position for Pogba?

Some people saying move Pogba left? then do what with Rashford?

Also, did you see how good Pogba was on the left when we had 10 men? He let Aurier go like all the time, never tracked him and conceded a silly penalty.

Judging a player with 10 men shows how committed they are to the team, Pogba was not moving.
 

bsCallout

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Bruno out wide?

Are we feeling alright?

Drop Pogba.

Go 3 in midfield. VdB Fred Bruno. That'll help the press.
 

VP89

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So now we want to shift our best player out of position to make room for Pogba? Brilliant.
 

AltiUn

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We need a double pivot. teams are running through us right now. Problem is the double pivot can't include Pogba.
I think the pivot can include Pogba. It's always depended on his partner though, he was great there with Herrera and has been great there with Matic in the past, I fear the issue is that we've overplayed Matic since the restart. I'd like to see Pogba and Fred in the double pivot, as long as Pogba looks up to full fitness which he hasn't in recent weeks. I actually think the reason we're being carved through so easily at the minute is that both look leggy, if we had the opportunity to experiment I'd try van de Beek and Fred there temporarily until Matic and Pogba start looking a bit more mobile again.
 

lex talionis

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No, we don’t weaken our best player by playing him out of position. The problem is that we’re getting poor production out of Pogba, and none of us can see a realistic sustainable solution to the problem. When January comes we should admit this didn’t work and send him to Juve or Real, if they’re still willing to have him.

Unless, that is, Pogba commits to becoming more disciplined in all phases of play.
 

jesperjaap

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I have seen Fernandes in the Portugal side playing wide a few times. For me personally if we were to move him at all I would move him in to Pogbas position and drop Pogba putting VDB in front if anything on current form.
 

el3mel

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Bruno is doing well behind the forward and Greenwood has done well on the right so no reason for such thing. The only change we should think about in our main lineup is playing VDB ahead of Pogba.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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We’ve tried nothing with Pogba but putting him in a double pivot since the beginning of last season essentially. Him, Bruno, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood screams 4-3-3, but I’ve got no idea whether Ole is either blind to it, or has no faith in any of our other midfielders player a deepest anchor man or deep-lying playmaker role. We haven’t been linked to a DM though, which makes me think the fault is with the manager.

In you cannot get anything out of Pogba and your team is otherwise shit, then the club and management is at fault. The idea that Manchester United’s golden path is casting Pogba aside for Fred, McT or DVB is asinine.
This feels like you've been playing too much FIFA, you do realize there isn't much different between Pogba and Bruno in a 4-3-3 and Pogba in a double pivot with Bruno as a 10 right? Either way Bruno will be the farthest midfielder forward, and our attackers will occupy the same spaces. I'm guessing you want Bruno to be closer to midfield and contribute more there, which I would agree with as he tends to basically play as a 4th forward at times which limits his effectiveness.
 

Can7onA

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Bruno out wide?

Are we feeling alright?

Drop Pogba.

Go 3 in midfield. VdB Fred Bruno. That'll help the press.
This.
 

tomaldinho1

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Nah. Just stop playing that stupid double pivot
Agreed. We need to ditch the defensive double pivot approach - I get some people think we play more attacking football under Ole but we actually score less goals than under Jose - the big issue is we play a double pivot and have no RW. One of those can be changed without signing a single player. We misuse Pogba, isolate Bruno and Matic is simply too immobile for the PL these days. Pastor Fred can do a job there and let the creative players sit further forward, take more risks and let's try and move the ball a bit/control a game before playing low probability long passes through to our quick forwards. All of this is easier with the inverted triangle.

Personally I'd drop Pogba and have the following:

--------------Fred----------
---- VdB --------- Bruno
 

Zlatan Ibrahomovic

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Put Bruno on the bench. Move Pogba to 10. Cavani upfront with Martial and Rashford on the sides.
 

Goku23

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VDB Pogba
Bruno
Cavani Martial

Thats how the front should line up for me rotating Cavani and Rashford or Martial and Rashford depending on whos fit and in form
 

davidmichael

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We’ve spent the majority of the last 7 years trying to fit players into the team by playing them out of position, let’s play everyone in their best position and change something tactically instead.
 

Stretender

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Bruno is doing well behind the forward and Greenwood has done well on the right so no reason for such thing. The only change we should think about in our main lineup is playing VDB ahead of Pogba.
Exactly. There is nothing wrong with dropping a player out of form.

Pogba should be coming on as a sub based on his current form. He needs to train better.

The issue still remains that he is a luxury we can't afford. Costing the team points is not clever.
 

Craig Ward

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I think the pivot can include Pogba. It's always depended on his partner though, he was great there with Herrera and has been great there with Matic in the past, I fear the issue is that we've overplayed Matic since the restart. I'd like to see Pogba and Fred in the double pivot, as long as Pogba looks up to full fitness which he hasn't in recent weeks. I actually think the reason we're being carved through so easily at the minute is that both look leggy, if we had the opportunity to experiment I'd try van de Beek and Fred there temporarily until Matic and Pogba start looking a bit more mobile again.
I think time has proven one thing - Pogba cannot play in a pivot. He cannot defend. He constantly loses his man and is lazy in possession.

The bolded part is where your argument breaks down. Pogba cannot play in a pivot because of no one but himself. He's too lazy, doesnt work hard enough and relies on others to make him look better. He's a fraud of a midfielder and it's time people stop making excuses for him
 

Craig Ward

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We’ve spent the majority of the last 7 years trying to fit players into the team by playing them out of position, let’s play everyone in their best position and change something tactically instead.
Exactly this. It's took us about 9 years to realise Mata and Lingard are crap on the RW. It's madness.

Bruno is our only creative central player - he stays where he is.

We dont need to change tactics - we just need to drop pogba and the players need to put more effort in. It's simple
 

Bebestation

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433 means there is 2 midfielders who have to drop deep to assist the CDM when in need and attack towards CAM when theres space.

Bruno is the more defensive players than Pogba in a 4231, that's why playing him at AM does hardly any benefit because Bruno drops back regularly from that position.

Playing Pogba and Bruno on the same line in a 433 means we get the defensive player playing more deeper but also having both the attacking abilities of each player aswell.
 

Rossa

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Yes! Another pointless debate trying to fit Pogba into the team. Let’s take our most productive player out of position to accommodate Pogba, so that neither will play well.
 

romufc

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433 means there is 2 midfielders who have to drop deep to assist the CDM when in need and attack towards CAM when theres space.

Bruno is the more defensive players than Pogba in a 4231, that's why playing him at AM does hardly any benefit because Bruno drops back regularly from that position.

Playing Pogba and Bruno on the same line in a 433 means we get the defensive player playing more deeper but also having both the attacking abilities of each player aswell.
But the problem is Pogba is a liability defensively, he does not press the ball well and gets beat very easily by runners.

Pogba's attitude when he loses the ball is the complete opposite of Bruno who will go back chase the ball and win it. Pogba will throw his hands and jog back.

Playing 4-3-3 also means Martial can drop to link play and Rashford and Greenwood can make runs between CB and Full back if Martial draws a CB out.
 

Lentwood

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No Greenwood is perfect for the modern-AMR position in my opinion. I actually think we would have created ourselves a problem if Sancho had joined since for me the weakest link in our attack is Rashford who only seems to be able to play well in patches.

Also, I’m sick of moving players for Pogba. For me, Pogba is an absolute liability in CM/DM and so he should compete with Rashford for the AML position
 

dutchred

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Surely with Telles coming in, aside from AWB we're more suited to a 5-3-2? Something like:

------------------De Gea---------------
---Lindelof-Maguire--Shaw---
-?-------------------------------Telles-
----------Pogba----Fred------------
-------------Fernandes-------------
---------Martial---Rashford-----

Feels like we should be able to manage the attack and defence alot better that way to me. Though the attacking RB is obviously an issue.
In this case Williams or Laird at right back and Tuanzebe or Bailly instead of Lindelof
 

Resch

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We do not have the players to play a 4-2-3-1 , but we have the players for a 4-2-2-2 or a 4-4-2 diamond.....

Fred/Matic------- VdB/McT
Bruno-----------------------------Pogba
----------------------Rashford
---------Martial-------------------------------

-------------- Matic
VdB-----------------------------Pogba
-------------------Bruno---------------------
------------------------------Rashford
---------Martial-------------------------------

The problem? Ole is not good enough.....
 

RashyForPM

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Keep him in his rightful position at AM, and put Pogba in his, on the bench. Fred would do better than Pogba in this form.
 

Roane

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Had a discussion recently on how to maximise the potential of the squad we have. And I think this the key for us. It's about utilising our players in a system that suits.

One of the ideas floated sounds nuts but did leave me feeling sort of "hmm I wonder".

The argument was that we tend to play through the middle. An obvious lack of wingers/wide men being maybe why. So why not use that as a starting point.

So a team In a 3 2 3 2 kind of set up but allowing interchanging between the players who on paper have the skills. But also a squad which allows changes etc

So an example of you will

Ddg

AWB/Bailly....Maguire...shaw/telles

McT/Fred.....Matic\Fred

Bruno... dvb... Pogba

Greenwood.... Rashford

Or you could have Rashford behind Cavani or with cavani or Martial in either position

On paper you have 2 in front of the defenders who can come back and make a five. Two behind the 3 who can move forward making a 4/5 and 3 behind the forwards who can interchange and move up to make a 3 if needed etc

Hope that makes sense.

It looks narrow but anybody those MF can move it out wide if needed a
 

LoneStar

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It makes more sense to move Pogba to the bench position.
This. End of thread. Put someone more functional in there. If you play Pogba there, people will say he plays better in a deeper role. I’m sick of this cycle.
 

starman

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I am not entirely against the idea, as he could play the role similar to how KDB does, that said benching Pogba would be the easiest solution.

My preference is putting Rashford on the right, Greenwood/Cavani in the centre and Martial on the left
 

Bebestation

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But the problem is Pogba is a liability defensively, he does not press the ball well and gets beat very easily by runners.

Pogba's attitude when he loses the ball is the complete opposite of Bruno who will go back chase the ball and win it. Pogba will throw his hands and jog back.

Playing 4-3-3 also means Martial can drop to link play and Rashford and Greenwood can make runs between CB and Full back if Martial draws a CB out.
That's why I agree with the 433 being the best.

Pogba no matter what formation we play wont be good enough defensively in ability or work rate.

Is there any point of playing him in a double pivot? Not for me.

In a 433, matic guards the centre of defence by himself instead of being in a double pivot guarding just a wider channel.

It means that Bruno & Pogba play as a centre midfield in partnership rather than one deep and one above the pitch. It means that Pogba cant get pressed and pressured in such deep situations leaving the opposition usually one on one with our defensive line. If Pogba loses the ball in a 433 midfield however, Bruno is there on the other side providing some guarding. If it happens to Bruno then Pogba can provide some guarding with Matic being in a central position anyway.

I'm also glad that you see Martials ability to link up play. He is an underrated creative player from deep more so than Rashford & Greenwood- yet we have Rashford & Greenwood playing deep and wide trying to play balls in to Martial rather than Martial trying to interlink and plays balls through to Rashford & Greenwood; or martial taking a dribble from deep.

The weird thing is that I saw some of the 433 last season. Matic was playing centrally as a CDM by himself, Rashford and Greenwood were playing narrow and close to Martial meaning there was so many one twos and times when the local 2 would get on goal.

It seems that the players were naturally trying to play a 433 by themselves- yet the longer Ole was here the more he pushed the formation of a 4231 - our CDM playing on a right sided channel only, our inverted forwards playing like creative LAM/RAM from wide and deep which isolates Martial; which makes it even harder for our defensive minded fullbacks to get forward etc.
 

Remember the geese

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I've been a bit of a lone campaigner for wanting to see Bruno play in the false nine position. I feel that him dropping into pockets, being flanked by two of Rashford, Martial and Greenwood would be really interesting to see. It would also mean we could play Pogba further up, in a role that suits him more. All in all, it would give us better balance as we could field both Fred and Matic to do the dirty work. Now that Martial is suspended, this is the perfect opportunity to try it out.
 

Lee565

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I think playing as a false 9 might work with rash/Greenwood as inside right forward and martial/rash as a inside left forward.

Fernandes had played at times as a striker for sporting so it's not a big stretch to ask him to perform as a false 9
 

Bwuk

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KdB is the best midfielder in the world and at times City do it.

Ive been wondering it myself to be honest. It’d allow us to get DvB into the side too.
 

romufc

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That's why I agree with the 433 being the best.

Pogba no matter what formation we play wont be good enough defensively in ability or work rate.

Is there any point of playing him in a double pivot? Not for me.

In a 433, matic guards the centre of defence by himself instead of being in a double pivot guarding just a wider channel.

It means that Bruno & Pogba play as a centre midfield in partnership rather than one deep and one above the pitch. It means that Pogba cant get pressed and pressured in such deep situations leaving the opposition usually one on one with our defensive line. If Pogba loses the ball in a 433 midfield however, Bruno is there on the other side providing some guarding. If it happens to Bruno then Pogba can provide some guarding with Matic being in a central position anyway.

I'm also glad that you see Martials ability to link up play. He is an underrated creative player from deep more so than Rashford & Greenwood- yet we have Rashford & Greenwood playing deep and wide trying to play balls in to Martial rather than Martial trying to interlink and plays balls through to Rashford & Greenwood; or martial taking a dribble from deep.

The weird thing is that I saw some of the 433 last season. Matic was playing centrally as a CDM by himself, Rashford and Greenwood were playing narrow and close to Martial meaning there was so many one twos and times when the local 2 would get on goal.

It seems that the players were naturally trying to play a 433 by themselves- yet the longer Ole was here the more he pushed the formation of a 4231 - our CDM playing on a right sided channel only, our inverted forwards playing like creative LAM/RAM from wide and deep which isolates Martial; which makes it even harder for our defensive minded fullbacks to get forward etc.
Agreed. Both Greenwood and Rashford are very good at making runs, play to the players strengths, is it hard to ask for?

I agreem the 4-2-3-1 does not allow for wing play whereas the 4-3-3 does and allows the wingers to get forward because the RCM and LCM can cover defensively and the team shifting meaning there is a DM and a CM in the middle of the pitch always.

In turn this also allows better pressing from the front because one winger can press a CB without leaving the full back free becuase one of the CM's can press the full back rather than our RB/LB pushing leaving space in behind.

Its simple, press players, cut passing lanes, ensure the midfield is not left open.
 

Roane

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That's why I agree with the 433 being the best.

Pogba no matter what formation we play wont be good enough defensively in ability or work rate.

Is there any point of playing him in a double pivot? Not for me.

In a 433, matic guards the centre of defence by himself instead of being in a double pivot guarding just a wider channel.

It means that Bruno & Pogba play as a centre midfield in partnership rather than one deep and one above the pitch. It means that Pogba cant get pressed and pressured in such deep situations leaving the opposition usually one on one with our defensive line. If Pogba loses the ball in a 433 midfield however, Bruno is there on the other side providing some guarding. If it happens to Bruno then Pogba can provide some guarding with Matic being in a central position anyway.

I'm also glad that you see Martials ability to link up play. He is an underrated creative player from deep more so than Rashford & Greenwood- yet we have Rashford & Greenwood playing deep and wide trying to play balls in to Martial rather than Martial trying to interlink and plays balls through to Rashford & Greenwood; or martial taking a dribble from deep.

The weird thing is that I saw some of the 433 last season. Matic was playing centrally as a CDM by himself, Rashford and Greenwood were playing narrow and close to Martial meaning there was so many one twos and times when the local 2 would get on goal.

It seems that the players were naturally trying to play a 433 by themselves- yet the longer Ole was here the more he pushed the formation of a 4231 - our CDM playing on a right sided channel only, our inverted forwards playing like creative LAM/RAM from wide and deep which isolates Martial; which makes it even harder for our defensive minded fullbacks to get forward etc.
Martials link up plau and a work with what you've got approach is why I floated the idea of having greenwood in the middle and rashy and martial out wide.

I know playing wide is good training for fledgling strikers but we've not had the luxury of that.
 

Organic Potatoes

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Before the transfer deadline, I thought we’d see him or Beek in that position more often than we’d want. But not to accommodate Pogba; simply due to attrition of our thin forward line in this crazy season.

Now, with Telles in especially, I think something like a 352 will be used instead more often in that scenario.
 

Glorio

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exactly, it would be Spurs game all over again, where other teams attacking full backs surge forward at will, leaving our full backs exposed. Even Rashford isn't so keen on tracking back, same on other side with Greenwood. I think Jose has give other teams the blue print on us, have your full backs attack at will, as neither winger tracks back, no defensive mid cover either and both full backs positionaly unsound. We'd hope that was a one off, but 3 goals conceded V Palace, 6 v Spurs, not looking good.I think Ole might switch it around next game, maybe play wing backs in a bid to address the lack of cover on each wing, not sure, but I don't think he can keep the same format.
Nail on the head there mate. Our forwards are not tracking back as much as they should, so the opponent's wingers pull AWB and Shaw narrow, and their full backs have acres of space to run into. The defence has taken a lot of stick but our forwards and midfielders share a lot of the blame
 

Sandikan

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Threads like this just highlight that Pogba is the odd one out nowadays. We’ve tried everything with him.
It's definitely getting to the Rooney latter days stage. Always about playing in a different position, or who is around him. Or what form he's in etc.

Top players should do the influencing
 

Ali Dia

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It's definitely getting to the Rooney latter days stage. Always about playing in a different position, or who is around him. Or what form he's in etc.

Top players should do the influencing
totally. the good things he’s done since he came back you can count on one hand too. It’s not like he was playing really well by the end of the season or anything. He was very poor In our last few games. He was great in the spurs away game when he came on. I’m genuinely a big fan but he’s supposed to be marquee player for us And he just phoning it in. Jogging around and pulling out of every 50/50. It’s pretty dire to see. Play him on the left? No! Back of the q for CM.