Classical Mechanic
Full Member
Wait, if journalists know feck all.............what does us fans know?
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Feck nothing?Wait, if journalists know feck all.............what does us fans know?
This is basically it. I use to watch Sunday Supplement then realised everyone on the show knew nothing and was basically giving their opinion as fact.Spot on. Journos have somehow cast themselves in the position of experts rather than simply reporters.
The whole dynamic is skewed.
As I say. More often than not. Also, who is anyone who is not involved in the process to say United aren’t interested? Just because a player doesn’t come, doesn’t mean they aren’t. Too much generalising on subject of journalism.Like when player x is negotiating a new deal, so their agent feeds the media with a lie about United being interested to boost their case for a better contract?
Shame they don't name every source, it'd be great to see, if you publish something then where that information came from is vital to support it. Otherwise it's a load of trash aimed at stirring up a response.
feck all but there comes the best part, in recent years journos even on press conferences when new managers comes, they push this how fans of that very club know a lot about football, how they arent dumb etc. This isnt a new thing about English sport section press, for me they are not even journos, at least not 99% of them, they are just bunch of people writing for a spot sections in different papers. You can find different def. what journalism is and i wouldnt be surprised that 99% doesnt fit in that description, they are disgrace to that profession. No integrity, no accountability, most research feck all about stuff they writing, they hide behind "sources" regardless of them existing or not.Wait, if journalists know feck all.............what does us fans know?
Read the Caf, people just go with what’s written by the media as gospel.As I say. More often than not. Also, who is anyone who is not involved in the process to say United aren’t interested? Just because a player doesn’t come, doesn’t mean they aren’t. Too much generalising on subject of journalism.
I don’t actually think Jordan is talking much sense to be honest. Think he’s not reading things for what they are, is chucking everything in the same point pot and getting what is an opinion piece mixed with what is a factually correct, sourced news piece. How can someone present their opinion as fact and somebody not understand that it is just their opinion? Would love to see an example of what he is talking about.
Also...a bugbear of mine. When journalists are critical of people in football they are not critical because of their ability/experience but because what football people’s predecessors and peers do. If Lukaku goes around Lloris and misses the goal, he’s not being criticised because the journalist would score but because if you put most other top flight, international strikers past and present in the same situation the expectation is they would score, therefore Lukaku has underperformed.
This whole ‘they’ve never done this or that’ argument is poor by football people who think they are above being judged.
You phrased this better than I could, but I agree with every word. This whole video just reeks of arrogance to me. I can’t believe so many are lapping this up."I do not know a journalist that has ever bought a football club".
Journalists aren't as rich as me, therefore they're not entitled to an opinion.
"...ever bought a player, ever sold a player, ever picked a team".
That's because they, you know, went into the profession of journalism. If they tried to apply to become a professional football manager, while this isn't impossible, the odds are stacked massively against it without having been a professional footballer.
You could say by the same token that very few footballers and football managers have written coherent articles or books about football. In fact, most of them can't write, and require journalists to write their books and articles for them, before later complaining about them.
"...have ever had any first-hand experience of football...".
That's because (a) they weren't good enough to be professional footballers, or were prevented by their bodies, or both. I'm sure most journalists would much rather be Premier League footballers than journalists, (b) they've never had the opportunity to work as a coach or manager because most of these are selected from the ranks of professional footballers, (c) they're denied the opportunity to gain first-hand access to the football 'industry' because the clubs and those who run the clubs wish to keep everything 'in-house', (d) it's necessary for journalists to train and engage in the practice of being journalists, hence the fact that they can write books, whereas footballers cannot.
He then goes on to state that journalists are allowed to have opinions, but they're not allowed to have opinions on how football clubs are run because they haven't done it. What exactly are football journalists supposed to have opinions on then? They can't have opinions on playing because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on managing because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on coaching because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on owners or directors because they haven't done it. If you take that to it's natural conclusion then what can they report other than the scoreline?
Furthermore, this would also mean that all of the paying punters are never allowed an opinion on anything, as none of them have played, managed, coached or owned at a professional level. It would mean that 99.9% of people who watch football worldwide can never offer an opinion on anything; presumably, we would be reduced to holding rattles and making encouraging noises, so that none of the poor people who work in professional football ever get offended.
One certain journalist did...He speaks well.
Fully expect no journalist to hit back at him because they know he's right.
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You phrased this better than I could, but I agree with every word. This whole video just reeks of arrogance to me. I can’t believe so many are lapping this up.
PreachYou phrased this better than I could, but I agree with every word. This whole video just reeks of arrogance to me. I can’t believe so many are lapping this up.
A philosopher once likened them to seagulls following a trawler...It's completely disgusting the way the British media treats Mou and all the other managers in the league. They're like vultures, always trying to stir sh*t up with the fans and the clubs. Fights every day, spats every day, why are they allowed to lie their asses off just for clicks. They've taken every opportunity possible to Jose. He's not blameless but it's clear he's a target people love because he acts out. Comes with the territory I guess.
Believe me mate, I have no great deal of love for the media. I just can’t stand the arrogance that is emanating from this guy. If we follow his logic then no one except the exact people who are doing a job should be allowed to comment on it.Why is it lapping it up? Jordan makes a lot of very good points that resonate with football fans match going or not.
My issue with the media is exactly as he put it, the media report their opinion as fact. How many times have seen ready the story or headline that Jose slated the kids but when you watch the full un-edited interview your thoughts position changes because the story goes from Jose slates kid X to, Jose said Kid X is learning the game, he has a lot of good qualities and is just not ready yet.
What makes somebody like Custis, Ladyman, Winter, Holt 'Chief Football Writer' 'Expert opinion' or the 'Voice of football' Boil it down to what it is and what they are. Somebody who has gone to Unit and more than likely got a Journalism degree and who's footballing expertise extends to the Frog and Firkin on a few Sunday mornings in Autumn. Does that mean they are not entitled to an opinion? Of course not. But Eff me don't make it out as fact, don't make up one stories from two half baked stories with no facts. Their opinion piece and what they write is no more or no less valid then yours or mine, they get paid for it that's the difference.
Let's not forget these cretins and leeches exist because of clubs like Man Utd and Managers like Jose, not the other way around.
That was a beautiful poem, @Boycott .It is an brilliantly articulated point many of us share.
Journalists believe they are a part of the game now.
They believe without them football is not the same.
They have an arrogance and over the top sense of worth.
And their arrogance has reached the point they don't realise it.
They are essentially glorified bloggers. I see some great opinions on this forum but they are opinions that provide discussion, not fact to provide narratives.
It's United, we sell ... papers, clicks, etc?It's completely disgusting the way the British media treats Mou and all the other managers in the league. They're like vultures, always trying to stir sh*t up with the fans and the clubs. Fights every day, spats every day, why are they allowed to lie their asses off just for clicks. They've taken every opportunity possible to Jose. He's not blameless but it's clear he's a target people love because he acts out. Comes with the territory I guess.
Even less.Wait, if journalists know feck all.............what does us fans know?
Did you miss the most part of the video where he specifically said everyone should have his own opinions and the right to write about it as what journalists do, but these journalists made them out as "FACTS" therefore it being the problem.He then goes on to state that journalists are allowed to have opinions, but they're not allowed to have opinions on how football clubs are run because they haven't done it. What exactly are football journalists supposed to have opinions on then? They can't have opinions on playing because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on managing because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on coaching because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on owners or directors because they haven't done it. If you take that to it's natural conclusion then what can they report other than the scoreline?
Furthermore, this would also mean that all of the paying punters are never allowed an opinion on anything, as none of them have played, managed, coached or owned at a professional level. It would mean that 99.9% of people who watch football worldwide can never offer an opinion on anything; presumably, we would be reduced to holding rattles and making encouraging noises, so that none of the poor people who work in professional football ever get offended.
Well saidIt is an brilliantly articulated point many of us share.
Journalists believe they are a part of the game now.
They believe without them football is not the same.
They have an arrogance and over the top sense of worth.
And their arrogance has reached the point they don't realise it.
They are essentially glorified bloggers. I see some great opinions on this forum but they are opinions that provide discussion, not fact to provide narratives.
Again, very well saidMUTD is a massive club that has had huge, arguably unparalleled success over the last 30 years. It's going to be shot at more than others because of that success. Newspapers and other media are agents of change; flux, confusion, change, controversy, disasters — these things sell papers and generate clicks more than anything else. They've worked it out. So when we watch TV or read newspapers and we are being blasted by headlines about disasters or confusion at MUTD or Mourinho we have take it all with a pinch of salt. Journalists are just going their job - which is to get you reading and worried. It's up to you about how you react.
Well, the vast majority of fans don't have financially motivated opinions...Wait, if journalists know feck all.............what does us fans know?
Luckily Fans opinions are not published as facts.Wait, if journalists know feck all.............what does us fans know?
He contradicted himself so many times during this scattergun rant that what he was saying was completely incoherent.Did you miss the most part of the video where he specifically said everyone should have his own opinions and the right to write about it as what journalists do, but these journalists made them out as "FACTS" therefore it being the problem.
Edit: “A journalist’s job in my view is to give an objective opinion, not to write what they think is a fact and to represent it as fact and to create news, rather than to report news."
There is a large dose of truth in what you are saying. But what separates sports journos for me from other journos who report on “real” news is that they seem to receive a lot of credence based solely on their opinions and estimations, rather than on facts. I mean, do their editors challenge them on source, verifying facts and the like? I will be the first to admit that I fall for click bait, simply because given the state of the club currently, I want to know every little tidbit about why the club is seemingly run the way we are. There is little truth to the reports I suspect, but I still click.I'm gonna play devil's advocate here. I don't think it's personal with journalists. It's their job to write articles that produce the most revenue. And football fans generally love drama and controversy because it's entertaining. It's simply a money incentive thing.