Sugar is clearly a racist. Typical Yiddo.
Sir Alan Sugar's racist tweet... [Kick Racism Out of Footbal]
- Thread starter Red4Life_#7
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I fully support this idea.Lol some people in this thread don’t think it’s racist.
Can these posters be given a 'maybe racist?' tagline like the 'City supporter' and 'Liverpool supporter'.
I look forward to the day mankind can move forward and we wont even be discussing these issues anymore. We will all be long gone though. I guess its just the period of history we are living through right now. In a hundred years or more there will hopefully be other things to worry about like those pesky aliens stealing our jobs and women.
Completely agree & making a shit joke about someone's appearance doesn't make you a racist in my book. It becomes a matter of your personal definition of "racism" though & each is entitled to their view of that.
"Casual racism" is maybe a better term for it but still seems harsh to include the word "racist" - what person in the world doesn't make certain assumptions about someone based on their appearance, including race? Wishing ill or the belief that a certain race is superior to another constitutes racism to me but others may & do feel differently.
He should have known better than to tweet that though & I'm astounded that he didn't. Maybe he was pissed or is he not as intelligent as thought? Not "racist" in my book but incredibly stupid nonetheless.
Disparaging generalisation/judgement definitely but genuinely racist? Depends on your own definition.
Genuine racists - as in, people who actually believe in racial supremacy - are quite rare (and usually quite insane).
The term has taken on a less extreme meaning, though, as we all know - or should know. So, insisting (as the poster above seemingly does) on the most extreme interpretation is pointless, not to say silly (or sinister, even - depending on who does it).
Everyone knows you can't be racist unless you drag a black man out of a wooden shed by a rope around his neck. Everything else is people just being snowflakes.
Definitely, just seems that "racist" seems like such an extreme & strong term to throw about that it has now become self-defeating. People seem to get disparaged when seemingly everything is labelled racist. You get arguments between the so-called SJWs & Anti-PC crowds when both really know that it's somewhere in between "racist" & "not racist".
Haha
Of course there are lesser examples of racism than that & you know that. The polarisation of racist/not racist just leads to arguments & division though based on personal definitions & semantics when most people agree that someone can show racial bias without being a genocidal racist.
Just like in the US people have become caught up on the liberal/conservative divide when the majority are closer to the middle than the extremes. Just leads to tribalism when there's no need. The vast majority of us agree on most issues yet get caught up arguing about the definitions of words/ideologies rather than thinking of solutions.
People in positions of power or influence who use racist language embolden those who aren't. He should be off the air.
Great idea! Especially for the black people in this thread with the differing viewpoint as well! I mean, they all use the dreaded word with each other in music; so if the cap fits...Lol some people in this thread don’t think it’s racist.
Can these posters be given a 'maybe racist?' tagline like the 'City supporter' and 'Liverpool supporter'.
You know black people can be racist right?
Racist = thoughts,comments and acts of hatred against an entire race.
Racially insensitive = thoughts comments and acts which could be found insensitive by members of a race or people who observe.
This was clearly the latter and anyone who thinks different wants their head wobbling. It was stupid and ill advised, he apologised...time for everyone to move on and not use it as a stick to beat him with.
Racially insensitive = thoughts comments and acts which could be found insensitive by members of a race or people who observe.
This was clearly the latter and anyone who thinks different wants their head wobbling. It was stupid and ill advised, he apologised...time for everyone to move on and not use it as a stick to beat him with.
The mind boggles reading this thread.
This one takes the biscuit, literally.
100% this. Knuckle dragging degenerates see stuff like this and Trump (obviously a more extreme example) and it makes them think it's OK.
As someone who isn't white, I'd be cautious making it, in case it did cause offence. Personally I wouldn't be offended by it, but I'd err on the side of caution to avoid offence. Mind you I'm not an artist and comedy is not my medium. It's easy for me to say so.
Personal taste comes into it too. I'm Asian and the BBC made 2 comedy shows with Asian stereotypes. Goodness gracious me and citizen Khan. I wasn't offended by either but goodness gracious me was the superior show by far. It was just better comedy.
Mind you I enjoy South Park and cartmans racism, but I would never express such views myself, especially in the public domain.
Wasn't GGM made by Asians? They were taking the piss out of themselves as much as English people.
South Park is slightly different in that it's a racist character and he's generally portrayed as a piece of shit.
This isn't epistemology or a logics exercise. We live in a social world where our actions and words have implications and many of them we have our own responsibility for.
Just like you have your own responsibility for your disassociated basement rationalizations essentially making you a dick online.
The second half of this thread in a nutshell:
Further proof that for a certain group of users on here, the idea of being called racist is far more abhorrent to them than any racist acts or racist behaviour itself. That's not to say they're strong opponents of racism, no – they just know that being labelled racist is taboo and they'd rather not deal with the shower of shite that comes with that word. Nine times out of ten their only real experience with racism involves feeling victimised when people casually call them or people like them out on their racist behaviour: "Stop calling all those clearly racist things racist guys, you're going to devalue the word" they say, like victims of racism pointing out racism is the primary driver behind institutional racism or something. "This is why people hate the left! PC culture gone mad, I say" because in their narrow little minds, the right to make offensive jokes is the most important civil rights issue of the 21st century. Bollocks to that.
For real, the likes of Shapiro and Jordan Peterson have permanently poisoned reasonable discourse with their semantical gymnastics. They rely almost entirely on obfuscation and open ended word play so the only way to cut through their bullshit is by stripping their arguments down to their most simple form like so:
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Further proof that for a certain group of users on here, the idea of being called racist is far more abhorrent to them than any racist acts or racist behaviour itself. That's not to say they're strong opponents of racism, no – they just know that being labelled racist is taboo and they'd rather not deal with the shower of shite that comes with that word. Nine times out of ten their only real experience with racism involves feeling victimised when people casually call them or people like them out on their racist behaviour: "Stop calling all those clearly racist things racist guys, you're going to devalue the word" they say, like victims of racism pointing out racism is the primary driver behind institutional racism or something. "This is why people hate the left! PC culture gone mad, I say" because in their narrow little minds, the right to make offensive jokes is the most important civil rights issue of the 21st century. Bollocks to that.
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TLW said:
I think I’m just as amazed that anyone found it funny as I am about claims that it’s not all that racist.
or perhaps 'racial gymnast'Lol some people in this thread don’t think it’s racist.
Can these posters be given a 'maybe racist?' tagline like the 'City supporter' and 'Liverpool supporter'.
It's about as contrived a joke based on race as it's possible to make isn't it?
But anyway, the last 3 pages of this thread are gold, innit. For folks either wilfully missing the point or (being polite) spectacularly misunderstanding it.
But anyway, the last 3 pages of this thread are gold, innit. For folks either wilfully missing the point or (being polite) spectacularly misunderstanding it.
We're people who form beliefs based on reason and won't fold to pressure that makes no sense!
Right, so you'd better stop imagining racism where there is none, so we can all get along! What you are effectively doing is forcing people (on pains of being labelled a racist themselves) to bypass their critical faculties and take offence at every tiny thing, so people end up thinking that everyone is an enemy, which is just perfect for dividing and conquering a multicultural society. You couldn't design a more subversive agenda than political correctness. And BTW, implicit in "political correctness" is the truth that is is not actual correctness. I prefer to be actually correct!
It's definitely stupid and poor taste, but why do you not think it's racist?
I actually don't think he meant it in the way it has come out, but it's still racist and someone in his position should know better.
Or you should maybe stop acting like you know what went through Sugar's head when he posted that. None of us really know, so we can do little more than judge the joke as it stands (or stood, as it were). Now, whether it was racist, racially insensitive or just a case of shitty stereotyping is largely down to semantics, and depends on what definition of racism you operate with. At the end of the day, it was a shit "joke" that linked Senegalese footballers and African migrants selling knick-knacks on the beach based solely on the colour of their skin. That is rightly going to be considered offensive.
And I think you prefer to be a massive pedant who insists that the definition of racism that you operate with is the only correct definition.
Except that Sugar is a person of neither "power" nor "influence". Actually, nobody takes much notice of him...……….well. unless it's to be offended by something he does or says, then they take notice of him.
If he'd made that self-same comment about the England team, would it have been deemed racist?
He was a Lord and now he’s a Sir, how does he not have power and influence?
The Queen noticed him ffs
But, he didn’t.
So let’s not talk in hypotheticals shall we?
He didn’t make a joke about the skin colour of white people, he decided to use 1 of 2 teams full of black people to make a joke about their skin colour.
GOAT-level mental gymnastics. The dog example was unnecessary though, let me fix it for you.
The Ben Shapiro followers are always wonderfully transparent as the arguement gets deeper.
“We wanna Stereotype and make general statements about a whole group of people based solely on the color of their skin... but don’t you dare dare call us racist”. So how are they doing so far..?
.One has claimed being called racist is the worst thing in the world(worse than actual acts of racism?)
. One has claimed it’s a compliment ( I hope he was not serious)
. One found the joke funny
. Most will use all other words to describe the joke .. just not racist.
One blamed the the evergreen PC police.
Most of them pulled out a dictionary to show us the “ correct definitions of racism” . As if they are no degrees of racist behaviors.
“We wanna Stereotype and make general statements about a whole group of people based solely on the color of their skin... but don’t you dare dare call us racist”. So how are they doing so far..?
.One has claimed being called racist is the worst thing in the world(worse than actual acts of racism?)
. One has claimed it’s a compliment ( I hope he was not serious)
. One found the joke funny
. Most will use all other words to describe the joke .. just not racist.
One blamed the the evergreen PC police.
Most of them pulled out a dictionary to show us the “ correct definitions of racism” . As if they are no degrees of racist behaviors.
There's clearly a lot of cultural diversity on here which is why things like blackface were deemed not offense by some. At least I'm hoping they're not british.
It wouldn't have been deemed racist here in the 60s but we learnt the lesson that a white man mocking an others skin tone is clearly racist. This wasn't stereotyping a countries culture this was "lol they're black like those street peddlers". Succesful athletes being associated to street peddlers because the colour of their skin.
I'm intrigued to know what the boundaries are for those who think thats okay. To me you seem to be confusing inventing fictional stereotyped characters as comedians do with looking at someones skin and attributing a stereotype, the former is fine to an extent as its not representative the latter isn't its a personnel attack based on race.
It wouldn't have been deemed racist here in the 60s but we learnt the lesson that a white man mocking an others skin tone is clearly racist. This wasn't stereotyping a countries culture this was "lol they're black like those street peddlers". Succesful athletes being associated to street peddlers because the colour of their skin.
I'm intrigued to know what the boundaries are for those who think thats okay. To me you seem to be confusing inventing fictional stereotyped characters as comedians do with looking at someones skin and attributing a stereotype, the former is fine to an extent as its not representative the latter isn't its a personnel attack based on race.
On the subject of racism, was it racist when the South Korean coach said that westerner people struggle to tell the difference between asian people?
"We switched them around because we didn't want to show our opponents everything and to try and confuse them," said Shin.
"They might know a few of our players but it is very difficult for Westerners to distinguish between Asians and that's why we did that."
"We switched them around because we didn't want to show our opponents everything and to try and confuse them," said Shin.
"They might know a few of our players but it is very difficult for Westerners to distinguish between Asians and that's why we did that."
I imagine some people saying that it isn't racist are probably referring to the literal definition of the word. In which case they are technically correct.
It is definitely racially insensitive though and a bad thing to do. Alan Sugar is generally a prick in my opinion so I don't have much sympathy for the backlash he will receive.
I definitely agree that there is a lot of faux outrage these days and find it just as frustrating as anyone. That said I do believe that you have to judge each incident on its merit and not be too quick to assume the 'PC has gone mad' stance. On occasions the outrage is justified.
It is definitely racially insensitive though and a bad thing to do. Alan Sugar is generally a prick in my opinion so I don't have much sympathy for the backlash he will receive.
I definitely agree that there is a lot of faux outrage these days and find it just as frustrating as anyone. That said I do believe that you have to judge each incident on its merit and not be too quick to assume the 'PC has gone mad' stance. On occasions the outrage is justified.
It's all about the way in which someone goes about this kind of thing - why would he tweet this when it very obviously was going to be seen as racist.
That being said these kind of stereotyping jokes happen all the time in private between groups of friends and they do no harm.
That being said these kind of stereotyping jokes happen all the time in private between groups of friends and they do no harm.
This I disagree with, I think Jordan Peterson actually seems like a very intelligent bloke. That video displays him being willing to admit he was wrong when met with a compelling argument. That is surely a good thing?
I also disagree with his own acceptance that he was wrong on that point. People should do business who they wish to do business with and if they base that on racial prejudice or prejudice of any other kind then the marketplace will level that out. That aspect of the civil rights movement was absolutely necessary at the time but we are luckily in a more enlightened society now where consumers will simply show their distaste for a racist baker by taking their business elsewhere.
This thread has taken a weird turn where anybody who questions or doesn't automatically condemn Alan Sugar is being tarred as a closet racist. I totally condemn his actions but I don't necessarily think not doing so or questioning it would make someone a racist themselves.
They are no also being described as Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson followers (the suggestion being that Shapiro or Peterson are racist also????) So the generalisations are getting pretty confused at this stage and a lot of people, both posters and public figures are getting called racist without any real evidence. This is stupid. How about just engaging with the arguments instead of trying to generalise about people.
They are no also being described as Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson followers (the suggestion being that Shapiro or Peterson are racist also????) So the generalisations are getting pretty confused at this stage and a lot of people, both posters and public figures are getting called racist without any real evidence. This is stupid. How about just engaging with the arguments instead of trying to generalise about people.