Sliding doors in football

[B20]

I am of the persuasion that football can be quite the Sliding Doors experience, when it comes to the development curves of players. I reckon there have been a lot of talented players who easily had the talent to make it big, yet were hampered on the precipe of it in one way or the other, and once the slide began they basically just kept sliding.

What are the players who you think could have turned out very differently, if just one or two situations had gone a different way?

I still think Le Tallec would have turned out differently if his second season with us had been with a manager who believed in him and formulated a clear plan for his progression into the team. His first season was actually quite promising. It had been a slow integration, but he also produced some performances that were just on a different technical level than what most of our squad had. I think the plan was always that the second season he'd be used more. Rafa saw it totally different and basically had no plan, use or interest in him. I think his ambition to make it in football just kinda broke after he failed with us.

Saviola is another one who I think was broken by his Barcelona experience. He was way too talented for the career he ended up having.

 

[Jimble]

Rashford, with that unexpected match against Mightyland

 

[11101]

I don't know if this qualifies, but i still don't know how Bojan went from youngest ever Barcelona debut, youngest ever Barcelona goalscorer, and highest ever La Liga debut season goal tally, to having his contract cancelled by Stoke City and getting the boot from an MLS team.

 

[B20]

I don't know if this qualifies, but i still don't know how Bojan went from youngest ever Barcelona debut, youngest ever Barcelona goalscorer, and highest ever La Liga debut season goal tally, to having his contract cancelled by Stoke City in the second division and getting the boot from an MLS team.

What could have gone differently for him though?

 

[11101]

What could have gone differently for him though?

Messi?

Hard to say. He just couldn't get in a stacked team and probably left too soon.

 

[B20]

On the opposite end of the scale, I reckon Pirlo would have been a flop if he had remained a deep lying forward all his career. That move to deep midfield changed everything.

 

[Gio]

@B20 I think the problem for Saviola was the game changed shortly after he came through. He would have been far better suited to being the small man in a little/large 2-man strike partnership in the 1990s, or as a wide forward in a 2010s 4-3-3. But the physicality required to lead the line in the 2000s, with 4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1 dominating, wasn't one of his strengths. But yes I'd agree he could have had a more rewarding career had he not spent most of it on the bench of one of the two Spanish giants.

On a similar note, perhaps the same for Riquelme. Rather than be signed by Barcelona to be managed by a coach in LVG who hated everything about him, he really needed the right coach who would prioritise the player over the system. He soon got that at Villarreal but his legacy in the game is maybe not quite what it could have been.

Closer to home I always thought Mata and Moyes were a horrible partnership in their wildly varying styles of play. Mata still had a fine career and had arguably already hit his peak, but it was a poor move for him in making the most out of his strengths.

 

[B20]

Rashford, with that unexpected match against Mightyland

Not sure what that means.

Reckon there is a good chance he would not have made it big if he had not already broken into the team under Van Gaal though.

 

[B20]

@B20 I think the problem for Saviola was the game changed shortly after he came through. He would have been far better suited to being the small man in a little/large 2-man strike partnership in the 1990s, or as a wide forward in a 2010s 4-3-3. But the physicality required to lead the line in the 2000s, with 4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1 dominating, wasn't one of his strengths. But yes I'd agree he could have had a more rewarding career had he not spent most of it on the bench of one of the two Spanish giants.

On a similar note, perhaps the same for Riquelme. Rather than be signed by Barcelona to be managed by a coach in LVG who hated everything about him, he really needed the right coach who would prioritise the player over the system. He soon got that at Villarreal but his legacy in the game is maybe not quite what it could have been.

Closer to home I always thought Mata and Moyes were a horrible partnership in their wildly varying styles of play. Mata still had a fine career and had arguably already hit his peak, but it was a poor move for him in making the most out of his strengths.

I thought about Riquelme, but I think for him it was more of a legacy thing that he never did it with a big club. He still ended up a great player though. Saviola ended up a shell of a player he should have been. Good point about the change in forward tactics though. I actually thought he looked promising in the centre under Rijkaard, as his first touch did a lot to compensate for his lacking physique, but he was chucked anyway. In the modern game, he'd have been a wide forward from the outset I reckon.

 

[Mickson]

Messi?

Hard to say. He just couldn't get in a stacked team and probably left too soon.

Why do you think that? I never rated Bojan, as I never rated Macheda. Some take the world by storm but don't have THAT much to their game. I remember seeing Bojan live, no grace, no stand-out qualities (that was after his great first games for Barca).

 

[Solius]

Not sure what that means.

Reckon there is a good chance he would not have made it big if he had not already broken into the team under Van Gaal though.

He only got his debut because Martial was injured in the warm up. Not sure he was being spoken about before then as being one for the future.

 

[Gio]

@B20 Speaking about Benitez, what about Pablo Aimar? Another highly rated Argentine who had a good career, but didn't fully fulfill the promise he had at River. I'm on the fence with this one. On one hand he had a good platform at Valencia and they played some tidy football suited to his strengths, remembering that lovely passing goal against Liverpool in particular. On the other, he generally played under quite defensive-minded managers in Cuper and Benitez, who were always loath to give him too much freedom and always sacrificed the no10 whenever they were holding onto a lead in the second half.

 

[dinostar77]

Its a combination of things;

1.Making a bad choice/bad advise on what club to join or where to go on loan.

2. Having a manager who believes in you and will play you in your natural/prefered position rather than shoehorn you into the team. Who will give you the run of games needed to develop and learn at top flight.

3. The step up to top flight football being harder than expected. Dominating reserve/youth level is one thing, trying to an elite player at the very top is something else.

3. The mental strength, attitude, determination to make the most of your talents. The self belief that you are good enough.

4. Complacency, distractions off the pitch.

5. Some players don't like football. See it as a job. Would rather do something else but it pays very well. So they go through the motions. This isnt uncommon.

6. Football tactical changes result in your ideal role being out of favour i.e. as discussed above about saviola.

7. Luck. This plays a huge part in it.

 

[Oranges038]

Le Tallec

 

[Heinzesight]

Le Tallec

Love to know his thoughts on Bruno Cheyrou...the next Zidane.

 

[Heinzesight]

He only got his debut because Martial was injured in the warm up. Not sure he was being spoken about before then as being one for the future.

And Will Keane would’ve been on the bench ahead of Rashford but got injured a couple of days before.

 

[Xeno]

Possebon before he got snapped.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

It’s very hard to analyse how and why it seems to happen, I mean look at Jamie Vardy who had the opposite experience to the players mentioned in here. How the feck do you explain what Vardy did? Already half way through his career then out of nowhere he turns into one of the best strikers in the league then manages to maintain that form for the second half of his career. Is that all momentum/confidence?

 

[Ajr]

Possebon before he got snapped.

Had a lot of hope, my heart sank when I saw it happen live

 

[Oranges038]

Love to know his thoughts on Bruno Cheyrou...the next Zidane.

Houllier and Rafa signed over 100 players between them. I remembered there being a lot so I looked it up, surely there was someone better than him in there that just missed out.

Some great names in here, mostly memorable for all the wrong reasons.

https://liverpoolfc.fandom.com/wiki/Rafael_Benitez/Transfers

https://liverpoolfc.fandom.com/wiki/Gerard_Houllier/Transfers

 

[harms]

I don't know if this qualifies, but i still don't know how Bojan went from youngest ever Barcelona debut, youngest ever Barcelona goalscorer, and highest ever La Liga debut season goal tally, to having his contract cancelled by Stoke City and getting the boot from an MLS team.

What could have gone differently for him though?

Messi?

Hard to say. He just couldn't get in a stacked team and probably left too soon.

Bojan himself says that it was mostly due to his anxiety and inability to cope with the pressure. It's hard to say, maybe if he wouldn't had been as good as he was as a youngster and played for a smaller team, he would've ended up with a better career at the end — or maybe he just didn't have it in him mentally to become a world-class footballer. There certainly wasn't a single watershed moment that defined his downfall.

 

[harms]

Closer to home I always thought Mata and Moyes were a horrible partnership in their wildly varying styles of play. Mata still had a fine career and had arguably already hit his peak, but it was a poor move for him in making the most out of his strengths.

Absolutely. He was having a poor season at Chelsea but under a great and fitting manager there's no reason why he wouldn't have performed as well as he did over the previous 3 or 4 seasons.

 

[Big Andy]

I am of the persuasion that football can be quite the Sliding Doors experience, when it comes to the development curves of players. I reckon there have been a lot of talented players who easily had the talent to make it big, yet were hampered on the precipe of it in one way or the other, and once the slide began they basically just kept sliding.

What are the players who you think could have turned out very differently, if just one or two situations had gone a different way?

I still think Le Tallec would have turned out differently if his second season with us had been with a manager who believed in him and formulated a clear plan for his progression into the team. His first season was actually quite promising. It had been a slow integration, but he also produced some performances that were just on a different technical level than what most of our squad had. I think the plan was always that the second season he'd be used more. Rafa saw it totally different and basically had no plan, use or interest in him. I think his ambition to make it in football just kinda broke after he failed with us.

Saviola is another one who I think was broken by his Barcelona experience. He was way too talented for the career he ended up having.

I used to work in Liverpool, my boss at the time was very bullish about Le Tallec and Pongolle. "Both of these will be way more successful than that fanny, one trick pony Ronaldo"

That was insightful.