That's the match where Mourinho basically forced him to play despite him having a badly broken toe, and after that match he was then out for a couple of months allowing it to heal. Unsurprisingly it was by far the worst match of his Man Utd career, and is still the one people constantly bring up to criticise him.
Smalling v Lindelof Comparison Thread
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I don't think anyone questions Smalling as a defender - but he was awful with the ball at his feet. So if United played with Maguire and Smalling or Lindelof/Smalling - the opposing team could simply but pressure on the other guy so that Smalling would have to play the ball out of defence, and they would win the ball back easily. Smalling can not play for a team who plays out from the back
Yet we won the league with smalling. We don’t always have to play out from the back
A guy that can pass the ball out of defense vs a guy that has to rotate his body 180 degrees to make a simple 10 yard pass - Lindelof Wins
A guy that is dominant in the air vs a guy that consistently mistimes his jumps - Smalling Wins
Defending is about equal - Draw
Take your pick.
A guy that is dominant in the air vs a guy that consistently mistimes his jumps - Smalling Wins
Defending is about equal - Draw
Take your pick.
Minor context addition ...
But smalling was so bad Fergie wouldn’t choose him
Are you determined to argue with me today or what?
And how many matches did Smalling start that season ?
I don’t know you tell me. Also tell me how many medals he has?
He started a grand total of 10 matches - so his contribution to us winning the league was probably not the greatest. Nor does it matter if you can win the league without playing out from the back (of course you can) - but when you have a manager who want to play out from the back, he is not the right player for us.
Oh and what does the number of medals have to do with anything ? Jon Greening won the C.L for us as well
How is their defending equal?
I mean cmon. Let's not base this on a single game where much better team with superb striking quality played average Italian side with Smalling only coming back from a lengthy injury. He's been a very good player for them when fit. Lindelof improved but he really should be just 3rd 4th option maximum as he's just a pussy safety first defender who can't take responsibility and unfortunately put us under pressure game after game with his non-defending. I'd still have a no-nonsense physical/fast defender next to Maguire rather than a "ball-playing" CB who can't defend.Because everyone fergie bought was a world class player.
We won the league with smalling at a time when 80 percent of the league hid from the ball. Nowadays you have teams like brighton trying to outplay you. lets just be honest and admit smalling is a terrible defender at this stage of football.
And even if we dont have to play out from the back we still need a defender that can at least control the ball.
I think the other day showed there is no comparison now.
I'd have said Smalling was better when Lindelof first came in, but definitely not now.
I'd have said Smalling was better when Lindelof first came in, but definitely not now.
Chris Smalling started 11 games in one title winning season and 10 in the other, as our fourth choice CB behind Rio, Vidic, and Evans.
This compares reasonably well with the 0 games Victor Lindelof will ever start in a title winning season at Manchester United.
This compares reasonably well with the 0 games Victor Lindelof will ever start in a title winning season at Manchester United.
Not really. I am just sick of the trickle truth's or plain lies to prove a point.
Yet we won the league with smalling. We don’t always have to play out from the back
Implying as if somehow it was smalling in large part responsible for the league win when you know better. Just plain false point (from site admin no less) to prove a false point. You could have put pretty much any half decent defender in there with ferguson and more often than not we win the league. Its like saying Mercedez wins formula 1 with mechanic x in their garage. No, mercedez win formula 1 because they spend most money and have a better car with a very dominant driver to boot.
This is called confirmation bias.
Theres no way you could actually believe that playing for Roma at half strength from the start and then a third of their strength in the second half due to injuries and subs is the same as playing for Manchester United at full strength
Imagine Lindelof in a 7th placed team in serie A without its captain and best CB Mancini, without its best young attacker (zaniolo), without pedro, then in the first half where the team is somehow winning 2-1 they lose their fill in captain Veretout and their first choice keeper in the first 27 minutes
Thats what that 2nd half was. Remember we lost the first half with Lindelof playing for United
We lost 6-1 to Spurs when we were in much better condition than Roma's and I dont think that one match tells us that Maguire is terrible. How about losing 3-1 to PSG at home missing only 1 player, Shaw. Or losing 3-2 to RB Leipzig, does that mean their 3 CBs Mukiele, Orban and Konate are better than Maguire and Lindelof?
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Do you think Smalling is better than Lindelof? The days of carrying a defender who can't pass it are long gone. And I'm not sure Smalling offers the pace or strong defending he once did either.This is called confirmation bias.
Theres no way you could actually believe that playing for Roma at half strength from the start and then a third of their strength in the second half due to injuries and subs is the same as playing for Manchester United at full strength
Imagine Lindelof in a 7th placed team in serie A without its captain and best CB Mancini, without its best young attacker (zaniolo), without pedro, then in the first half where the team is somehow winning 2-1 they lose their fill in captain Veretout and their first choice keeper in the first 27 minutes
Thats what that 2nd half was. Remember we lost the first half with Lindelof playing for United
We lost 6-1 to Spurs when we were in much better condition than Roma's and I dont think that one match tells us that Maguire is terrible. How about losing 3-1 to PSG at home missing only 1 player, Shaw. Or losing 3-2 to RB Leipzig, does that mean their 3 CBs Mukiele, Orban and Konate are better than Maguire and Lindelof?
I think hes a better defender, worse on the ball where Lindelof has been pretty good this season especially with his long balls. I think both have been average this season overall. But 1 is starting for United next to expensive defenders and the other is a backup at Roma
Hold on a minute, where did I say any of that? I asked how many leagues had he won, and how many medals had he won?
My point being that there is many rewriting history putting him down when there is no need from his time here. He WAS a good defender. Many fans were questioning why he didn’t get many more England caps
I think Ekeke's point is that a few of the criticisms and proclaimations that Lindelof is better period is based on recency bias and taken without much context, which he has perfectly explained in the post you quoted.
Lindelof is arguably playing in the form of his life and even then, when you take a step back to analyse, it's just simply being a capable partner for Maguire, performing to a consistent certain level but not really being dominating in any specific aspect.
Smalling is certainly flawed but he has shown plenty of form/peaks (notably under LVG with Blind) with even Rio calling him a 'beast'.
Lindelof playing well is down to him and down to the fact that we are also a really solid defensive team with Ole's tactics and McFred being key components. That also applies to Smalling, where he was as 'protected' due to our playing style under LVG. So for simplicity sake, let's call their form even. Look at their individual attributes. Smalling was dominating attackers and shutting down threats when it came him way. Lindelof plays smart zonal play and rarely makes 'decisive' mistakes because his game is all about containing prefering to back track 30 yards than address the problem closer to source. Neither are good enough period imo but we need to stop elevating one or the other.
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Read my posts. I’m pretty sure that I said based on the other night it looks like smalling is done.
I’m defending him historically when defending was a thing
Wooooosh
Fred or McTomminay are good enough paired with Pogba or a less defensively minded CM if our CBs had enough pace in them to mop up behind them. That partnership is the eptiomy of weak when it comes being able to defend against pace / counter attack. Ole got apoplectic when during the first half of the Roma game when it was suggested he doesn't need to defensive CMs and he talked about balance. Maybe he doesn't trust Fred or McT to be the best DMs but, anyone watching United over the last couple seasons know - Maguire / Lindelof absolutely can be got at if you hit them on the counter, they shit their pants when attacked directly because they know they don't have the pace for it.
Been injured and probably out of form due to home invasion. He was very good last season, odd how people seem to think it’s so easy to just play football and not be affected by injuries and off field issues. I’m pretty sure he’d still mash Lindelof in a foot race and is a better man marker than he‘ll ever be, Kane rarely ever troubled us when Mike played. But Ole has moved on and I’m still of the opinion we need a better option alongside Maguire. We shall see what happens in the summer...
My point was simply that if you use the United Vs. Roma game to say "See! Lindelof is better!" its because you started with that conclusion, then worked back to find some flimsy half assed reasoning
Nobody in their right mind could compare the two players on the night and make a conclusion from it.
Lindelof plays in a defence that had £150 million spent on it after Smalling last played for United, Smalling played in a team full of Roma's backups - and he's one of them. If Lindelof was playing in such a depleted team who already went into the match expected to lose, then thats what you could compare to Smalling on the night. Stacked deck