Think Mount was an Eriksen replacement..
Sofyan Amrabat | signs for United on loan
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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I was thinking more of a Gullit-Essien double pivot.
Mount replaced Eriksen in the starting 11, Eriksen replaced Fred by being the squad player midfielder. In terms of numbers, Mount replaced Fred.
Hence amrabat
He will be an upgrade on both Fred and McTominay on the ball, and it makes sense why ETH wants him. For 25m odd, it is a very good deal.
It's a much more sensible way (if not only proper way) to build a squad, compared to some opinions here that you need a squad full of world class/wonderkid players. Not every signing must be a flashy one to work out for both manager and team.
Case will be 32 pretty much at the end of the season. He could do well for 1-2 seasons more and we can address the DM position either next summer or the year after.
as I said Lavia needs game time now to develop and we aren’t the team currently that can promise that. One of the reasons probably Kim chose Bayern too.
Modric is still going strong. Fernandinho was at top level up until 35.
McTominay appeared over 30 times last season (and Fred over 50!)
I'm okay with selling McT, assuming Mainoo isnt like missing for half the season.
Nah, even if he's on the same level as those guys, he'll be a much better jigsaw piece because of his profile and characteristics, particularly his ability to receive and progress the ball from deep areas and his relative press resistance. I'm fond of Fred and he definitely has his uses but Mount can do all the stuff Fred is really good at with far more technicality so you don't need those profiles anymore.
We have already bought another midfielder for Fred, Amrabat can have McT minutes. We are no worse off.
I don't understand this logic. Not every player has to have played for one of the very best teams in a league or cost a certain amount in order to qualify as a good player or a sensible signing for us - there just aren't enough very top teams for that to make sense. He's been a key member of a Serie A team that made it to a final and a Morocco team that massively exceeded expectations at the World Cup. Meanwhile we could barely beat mid table PL teams away from home last year, with a lack of steel and control in central midfield being a significant contributing factor. If he fits the profile of player that Ten Hag thinks will improve our squad and better our chances of success, who cares whether he played for a 9th placed Serie A team or a 2nd placed La Liga team etc? If he cost 20 million more would that make you feel better about the signing? His contract is up in 2024 so it's not surprising that Fiorentina would cash in at that sort of price now.
Fergie always had success by blending world class talent with less glamourous players who played key roles and allowed the team to function, becoming greater than the sum of its parts. Seems to me that Amrabat would be a significant upgrade on McFred and add much greater balance to our squad in the middle of the park.
People talking about Fred... the guy is an absolute liability. When he plays (or subs on) you just never know what you're going to get and one possibility is a hot headed rager who's one tackle away from a red card. Bringing in a highly professional leader who has both an engine and a pass is a very sensible move.
I wouldn't be complaining about potentially our 4th signing of the summer without major departure sales.
I agree with you 100% but the question has to be asked when looking at his club record. Utrecht- Feyenoord- Brugge- Verona- Fiorentina and turning 27 next month is hardly reassuring. Is it possible that he’s a late developer? sure and he’s probably going to get the chance to prove me wrong but it would be mad to not question this signing
Arguably the best going by our new boy's assessment
How relevant is the fact he started at Utrecht and Feyenoord at this point, aside from it meaning that ETH knows the player's characteristics and personality?
Probably not that vital compared to performances for Fiorentina, who are a proper football club. If he was still playing in Holland at 27 I'd understand the concern around clubs but he's not, he's playing for a good name European side that just got into a continental final, that play in a major league. So it seems like clubs isn't really such a big deal at this point in time.
As much as I don't rate them I would definitely keep one of Fred or McTominay just so we have depth for the midfield. It's a long, hard season.
I understand why you would get that information and extrapolate from it that he might not be amazing. There’s not much to gain by doing that because it tells you nothing about his attributes; but it does hint that he’s not amazing.
I have seen a smattering of his games, plus (gasp) some videos. I’m not an expert on him but imo he is a very capable, versatile CM. He doesn’t score goals or do anything amazing. He’s not amazing. There are other players who do what he does and more. Nevertheless he is quality and a level above what his transfer history suggests.
I’d agree with you if your reasoning is when it comes to his skill set of profile. Just looking at his wiki page is kinda lazy argument.
Agreed, but there are always doubts about every signing. And the market is especially challenging at the moment with the huge influx of middle eastern money inflating everything. If we signed a PL proven player like Declan Rice for £105 million or a promising youngster like Lavia for £50 million, everyone here would be questioning those signings too.
The reality is that lots of players come into their own and then do well for big clubs in their mid 20s because it makes sense for many players to make their biggest career moves as they mature and enter their prime, especially in more defensive minded positions. The thing that seems attractive to me with Amrabat though is his passing. I've gotten so sick of seeing us cede possession again and again because neither Fred nor McTominay can consistently pass to other players in red, whether short or long. Then to cap that off, neither have the positioning to provide adequate cover to the defense after we have lost possession. It's such an obvious flaw in our team that Amrabat looks well suited to address, especially considering our budgetary restraints.
I’d rather give those minutes to Hannibal and Gore.
Same probably. Who I’m not sure, but it’s looking more likely to be McTominay and I’m alright with that.
Get rid of VDB(loan if it has to be) and Fred and bring Amrabat. I would rather keep Fred(for one more year) and sell McTominay now, but the club intends to do the opposite, unfortunately.
It tells me that if he skills was that good he wouldn’t have been moving around lower ranked clubs for the vast majority of his career. Again he could be a late developer and I’m more than willing to be proved wrong.
Can I ask if he’s been so good in Serie A why isn’t there a queue of clubs wanting to buy him? It’s a genuine question because for his asking price I would have expected half of Europe to be in for him if the stats I’m being shown are accurate. Not trying to be a dick here I’m generally wondering.
He's been heavily linked with both Barcelona and Liverpool. Not exactly minnows.
Yeah was gonna say that,just hope we don't find ourselves in scenario where we are unable to sell Fred/McTominay. He clearly wants to join and will be gutting if we can't make the space in squad
In some sense, he has unique profile of abilities. Can definitely enrich our squad in both quality and depth.
There has been hundred of signings that came from lesser teams , that performed excellent in PL because the manager understood how good they would fit into the system, and how good the system made the player
Barcelona wanted him to replace Busquetes. Not every very good player has to play for a top side. Villareal had riqueleme. Sevilla over the years have had some fantastic players who could easily have made the step up to a european giant if circumstances had been different.
Mo Salah was playing for fiorentina, KDB was playing for wolfsburg. Its myopic to think you cant be a top player if you havent played for a european giant.
It's a fair question, but Bruno's career before he signed was this: Novara, Udinese, Sampdoria, Sporting.
He’s good, for sure.
It’s quite interesting to wonder what plan EtH might have for next season and where Amrabat fits in.
All indications were a switch to 4141 / 4123 with Case deep as a lone no6. Amrabat can play as a lone 6 or one of two deep CMs in a 4231, for example. So Amrabat seems likely intended as competition for Case and a tactical option if 4231 is used from time to time. All logical.
What I’m wondering is whether EtH is not entirely happy with Case and sees Amrabat as a preferable profile for the lone no6. Or perhaps EtH is not committed to any particular template and it’s just about adding quality and seeing what emerges.
Im not saying he has to play for a top side but when all of them are ‘lower level’ it raises alarms. KDB and Salah weren’t 27 and had big money moves before finding their best form at City/Liverpool
Fair enough on the Barce links I was unaware of those.
I’m waffling on now anyway I’ll be more than happy if he signs and proves me wrong he’s just not the player I would have gone for.
Yeah fair enough
I don't think, that kind of logic is flawless in itself. I mean, Fiorentina lost the final you were talking about against a PL midtable team that has had a particularly bad season last year. Wouldn't hold that against the player, but the argument doesn't really work. The interest of other clubs of course isn't the only compass to evaluate a player from, but it for sure is an indicator. The player that gets described here would absolutely create interest all over Europe. And we don't even have to go that far as Italian clubs are notorious to go for talent AND for bargains from their own league.
(btw: last winter we had a similar talking point with Weghorst, who also didn't generate any notable interest in the market. 6 month later, we kind of know why. Collective knowledge shouldn't just be ran over)
We also shouldn't mix up the debates - I think, there aren't many who aren't in favor of bringing in an alternative to Fred and/or McTominay. The question is, is this player the right player. And this is not me saying he isn't. I just hope, we don't let ourselves get fleeced for him.
But nothing particularly substantial isn't it? I mean, Liverpool brought in a few midfielders already and I am sure if Amrabat would be a viable alternative, then there would be a notable bidding war ongoing. Just because it makes sense for player and Fiorentina. Barcelona brought in Gundogan and Romeo. On transfermarkt, there is a list of ongoing rumors for a player. Shouldn't be taken for granted for sure, but the only notable clubs there are we and Saudi arabia.
Several reasons. Firstly, we don't know which clubs may have approached him. What we see in the press is a tiny fraction of what goes on behind the scenes between agents, clubs and players. And most of what we do see is either clickbait or leaked stories trying to drive up demand or spark bidding wars. Using publicized interest in a player is therefore a very poor way of determining their utility.
Secondly, with prices so inflated at the moment, clubs have to weigh up priorities so they can focus on the weakest areas of their team. That means not bidding on every player that might improve them, because they only have the budget to go for the exact sort of profiles their squad lacks.
I'm not stating we should sign him because of those reasons listed - I was pointing out the flaw in the argument of "why hasn't he played at a higher level", when he has played at a very high level, even if it's not the highest level. That doesn't mean he isn't capable of it, it just means he hasn't had the opportunity yet, just like Bruno etc didn't until they moved to a bigger club. The only true way of telling if he can play at a higher level is for him to sign for top club that does compete at the highest levels. If Utd give him that opportunity then we will find out.
The only reason we should sign him is if our manager thinks he is the best available option for improving a key area of the team. If Ten Hag thinks he has the attributes to fit in with how he wants us to play and make us better then I am inclined to trust his judgement, with the understanding that there are lots of areas of weakness he needs to address within a fairly limited budget.
McFred mark an era that is best forgotten at United; an era of mediocrity. The sooner we get rid, the better.
You'd hope that it isn't only the manager but that there would be another instance who would contribute to such thoughts but apart from that, I agree with your points.
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