Solskjaer: Winning trophies is more of an ego thing for managers, league position is where true progress is seen

[Kag]

So the full quote is very well thought out and considered. What he is saying makes total sense.

If you choose to take that as a ‘we don’t want to win trophies’ then you’re a prize berk.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I agree is better to look for progress in league position rather than cup tournaments, but the fact that he says this at this particular moment seems like an excuse to lower expectations in case we're out of the cup tomorrow.

Small time mentality again.

 

[Godfather]

So the full quote is very well thought out and considered. What he is saying makes total sense.

If you choose to take that as a ‘we don’t want to win trophies’ then you’re a prize berk.

It's a nothing statement. Wouldn't exactly call it well thought out but who cares.

 

[Revaulx]

Yes you’re being too cynical, why would our own club not want to win trophies?

‘Cos there’s a risk that if we go deep into them the chances of winning one are outweighed by the distractions from focusing on the club’s main objective, which is to make Top 4?

 

[Trophy Room]

He's completely right.

 

[Kag]

It's a nothing statement. Wouldn't exactly call it well thought out but who cares.

You care, clearly. Why else would you post about it?

Don’t you agree with the assessment that a shitty League Cup win can deflect attention from the lack of overarching progress? Mourinho brought a couple of tinpot titles back to the club but it was obvious even then that we were on the road to nowhere.

 

[RUCK4444]

Depends on what trophy it is. Ask any Wigan fan would they have stayed in the PL that season and never won anything or would they have taken the FA Cup and got relegated. They would have probably been relegated the next season anyway. Now at least they have won a prestigious trophy in England.
Would I take the Champions League over being 2nd or 3rd place in the PL? Any day.

Yes but we’ve won it dozens of times, winning an FA Cup this year and finishing fifth would absolutely be seen as failure, rightly so.

And your talking about what fans like Wigan prefer, what I’m saying (and Ole) is a cup is a bonus and does not signify definite improvement.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

League position is undoubtedly a better indicator of a team's strength than cup wins. To describe it as an "ego thing" (for managers no less, what about the players) is quite bizarre though. But I think it's just poor wording than anything else.

 

[Rustyspider13]

I'd just like to say that a part of our fan base love disparaging our manager here, in both related and unrelated threads. Passive-aggressive or straight up aggressive digs are being taken at every single opportunity, without fail. It's very, very tiring.

As for the quotes, nothing wrong with them. Not once he said that United shouldn't be winning trophies, only that consistent league position is what counts as progress in his eyes, that's it.

 

[Godfather]

You care, clearly. Why else would you post about it?

Don’t you agree with the assessment that a shitty League Cup win can deflect attention from the lack of overarching progress?

That I agree with.

However: He should have known that taking about how trophies in cups don't necessarily mean all that much just before we play a knockout game in the EL could rub fans the wrong way. Plus: Usually a trophy or two can indicate the state a team is in. Big suprisies don't happen all that often.
And as a closing remark:. I personally don't see the big progress he is talking about in our team so a trophy would be very welcome.

 

[Traub]

Just reads as a Jose dig to me.

 

[Leftback99]

They were brilliant and it was Wigan. City lost a cup final to Wigan a few years later. Those same brilliant players also finished the joint lowest Fergie had ever finished at United.

There's obviously way more to it then just winning a trophy means you'll win more.

Exactly it meant nothing when Wigan won it in terms of going on to more success.

We got 3 signings spot on to add to an exciting squad in 06 (Evra, Vidic, Carrick) and never looked back. Hopefully we can do similar this summer.

 

[Gehrman]

Again I think this is similar with the Poch thing. Personally I don't believe Poch went into the CL final believing that winning it didn't matter. It's just a that progress for certain clubs can't always be measured by trophies alone. Personally I think for the bigger clubs only the PL and CL are the only trophies with real prestige these days. EL has the bonus of CL football, but there isn't great prestige in it these days. The FA Cup is still nice but it's lost a lot of glamour.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

So the full quote is very well thought out and considered. What he is saying makes total sense.

If you choose to take that as a ‘we don’t want to win trophies’ then you’re a prize berk.

I entirely agree. I can't argue with the below at all; if we end up in and around the top two or three on a consistent basis in the coming years that is by far a better gauge of progress than toiling for top six while winning a few cups:

“It’s not like a trophy will say: ‘We’re back.’ No, it’s the gradual progression of being in and around the top of the league and the consistency, and the odd cup competition can hide the fact you’re still struggling a little bit.”

 

[Teja]

Sigh.. I wonder why he said it given it'll get sensationalized quite a bit now.

Normally he's completely uncontroversial in his press conferences. Boring is good, don't invite unnecessary drama :-/

 

[He'sRaldo]

He needs to be saying whatever it takes to get to the next round vs Milan.

No matter what he says, it's the results that matter, and at the end of the day no trophies for 3 years for a club like Man Utd is disastrous. No amount of talking about progress can hide that fact.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Just reads as a Jose dig to me.

Haha was just thinking that to a degree.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Just reads as a Jose dig to me.

this.

 

[simmee]

But that's still he winning mentality that seperates the big clubs from the small time clubs. To feel the need to win every trophy and judge yourself critically by those expectations. Not peddle the excuses of small time clubs.

Like Dortmund and their fans celebrating winning the transfer window trophy, that's proper big club mentality. (Sorry to bother you while you're watching your favorite club in the CL)

 

[Zen86]

He needs to be saying whatever it takes to get to the next round vs Milan.

No matter what he says, it's the results that matter, and at the end of the day no trophies for 3 years for a club like Man Utd is disastrous. No amount of talking about progress can hide that fact.

I don’t think winning second rate trophies like the Europa is really going to cut it for a club like Man United, either.

 

[pocco]

Hes right. You can fluke cup wins. Consistency is always the barometer.

Consistently top 4 Can't beat it. The Arsene Wenger trophy.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Hes right. You can fluke cup wins. Consistency is always the barometer.

Exactly. Consistency in winning trophies. That's what makes you a big club.

 

[justsomebloke]

He needs to be saying whatever it takes to get to the next round vs Milan.

No matter what he says, it's the results that matter, and at the end of the day no trophies for 3 years for a club like Man Utd is disastrous. No amount of talking about progress can hide that fact.

Don't really agree. I'd take gradual progress in the PL over PL standstill and a couple of FA cups any day.

Trophies matter, but so does context. The thing that matters is: Are we genuine contenders for the PL title?

If the answer is yes, Cups and european trophies matter. If you're a genuine contender for the PL title, then you are in a position to win, and that should extend to cups.

If the answer is "no", then let's face it - a cup or a Europa League is really just a consolation prize. They make no fundamental difference. Maybe they're important as stepping stones, learning experiences - but that's about it. To me, how we do in the FA Cup or Europa League this season doesn't matter much to how I judge this season, one way or another. And I don't buy into the "this is United, there's got to be trophies" thing. If we're not challenging for the league title, what the feck does it matter whether we win the League cup or not?

 

[justsomebloke]

Exactly. Consistency in winning trophies. That's what makes you a big club.

No. Winning the PL every now and then is what makes you a big club. You can win three FA Cups in five years, it doesn't make you a big club.

 

[Dumbstar]

Do we need a thread on this really? We are discussing Ole in the United forum.

Its a non story and very much accurate. Ask Liverpool fans.

Hello. Yes you've come to the right people.

We will help ease you into the next two decades. You're lucky not all of us were banned.

 

[matherto]

Well, we definitely don’t need Poch cause we’ve already got his attitude.

Disappointed to hear it to put it mildly.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I don’t think winning second rate trophies like the Europa is really going to cut it for a club like Man United, either.

Agree, we need to be winning both.

But since we disastrously crashed out of the CL group stages, the very least we must do is win the 2nd rate competition we found ourselves in, as the favourites.

 

[cyberman]

Consistently top 4 Can't beat it. The Arsene Wenger trophy.

Its not consistently top 4, its consistent improvement that cup draws can't reflect.
Think how close we were to a cup treble last year and how far off ths top sides we were.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Don't really agree. I'd take gradual progress in the PL over PL standstill and a couple of FA cups any day.

Trophies matter, but so does context. The thing that matters is: Are we genuine contenders for the PL title?

If the answer is yes, Cups and european trophies matter. If you're a genuine contender for the PL title, then you are in a position to win, and that should extend to cups.

If the answer is "no", then let's face it - a cup or a Europa League is really just a consolation prize. They make no fundamental difference. Maybe they're important as stepping stones, learning experiences - but that's about it. To me, how we do in the FA Cup or Europa League this season doesn't matter much to how I judge this season, one way or another. And I don't buy into the "this is United, there's got to be trophies" thing. If we're not challenging for the league title, what the feck does it matter whether we win the League cup or not?

The point being that no matter what he says we should be winning this competition.

If we're not viewed as the favourites, then that's a huge indictment on the manager and the progress he keeps talking about. After all, how can we be talking about winning the PL if we can't even win a Europa League trophy. And on the flip side if we are the favourites, then we need to win it.

No matter how you look at it, there's no way around it and no excuse for not going all the way in this competition. Defintitely not the exciuse of "progress" which, as we've seen with Pochettino, can all come crashing down in an instant.

 

[Zen86]

Agree, we need to be winning both.

But since we disastrously crashed out of the CL group stages, the very least we must do is win the 2nd rate competition we found ourselves in, as the favourites.

Well, if we’re the favourites then we must win it. That’s how knockout competitions work.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Well, if we’re the favourites then we must win it. That’s how knockout competitions work.

Yes, that's generally how 2nd rate knockout competitions work.

The CL which is the real big knockout competition can be more random as the teams are more even in quality, and even then the favourites have dominated in recent times.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

100%. League position is always the true barometer of a team. If you’re consistently fighting for a league title the cup trophies will come anyway.

Arsenal 05-14 says hi.

 

[Dumbstar]

Arsenal 05-14 says hi.

You're not supposed to actually say it.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Jesus Christ, the lot of you are dumb as feck if you don't actually understand what Solskjaer is saying.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

You're not supposed to actually say it.

RedCafe: haha haha winning minor trophies create winning mentality, Wenger is such a bottler, Poch is such a bottler

Also RedCafe: wowza Ole is right, who cares about 2nd rate competitions.

 

[Zen86]

Yes, that's generally how 2nd rate knockout competitions work.

The CL which is the real big knockout competition can be more random as the teams are more even in quality, and even then the favourites have dominated in recent times.

I don’t think anyone really cares that much.

 

[Bondi77]

The funny thing is is that the league position only really matters if it gives you entry to a Cup competition that culminates with a trophy.
Winners are grinners whenever we win a trophy from my perspective.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I don’t think anyone really cares that much.

The level of care depends on the manager being scrutinized.

 

[Mr Smith]

I do get where he's coming from but he shouldn't say stuff like this, it reads like he's covering his ass and starts unnecessary debates.

 

[The Firestarter]

I do get where he's coming from but he shouldn't say stuff like this, it reads like he's covering his ass and starts unnecessary debates.

As is 98% of the debate in the Utd forum