Some positivity for the international break

bsCallout

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If he’s not fit enough to last more than 45 minutes against Milan and not make the squad at all against Leicester he can’t be fit enough to play for England.

Rashford is a shoe in for the squad for the summer but he won’t make the starting XI atm based on form. Continuing to turn in tired and disjointed performances because of an underlying injury won’t help that.
I'm with you but it can be the only reasoning behind the decision. He doesn't want to have them think he can't make it due to injury.
 

big rons sovereign

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QF in FA cup is hardly a feat, second in the league is not written in stone yet, and it wouldn't be a thing had Liverpool not imploded, and getting knocked out of CL is a failure for a club like United.
He should go at the end of the season.
Love that argument, "if this, then this"
Ridiculous.
Well, if bergkamp hadn't missed his pen, there's no treble.
If Ruud hadn't hit the bar, there's no invincibles.
If Shevchenko had scored, there's no Istanbul.

We're second because we've earned it. Not because Liverpool shit a bollock, not because Lampard failed, but because we earned it.
This being after a horrific start no preseason and a pathetic transfer window.

Are city top because Liverpool collapsed? No.
But rather than accept that were doing surprisingly well despite the state the clubs in, there's a number of posters intent on shitting on everything.
 

bsCallout

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QF in FA cup is hardly a feat, second in the league is not written in stone yet, and it wouldn't be a thing had Liverpool not imploded, and getting knocked out of CL is a failure for a club like United.
He should go at the end of the season.
Youre projecting your opinions about why he should go, I asked if you really think they will get rid of him when he achieved those things. Not a chance.
 

rotherham_red

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The Leicester bit is a part I find issue with. How have we allowed them to catch up to us?

Rodgers and Solskjaer took over their teams at about the same time. In the season they took charge, Leicester finished with 52 points whilst Manutd finished with 66. A 14 point gap.

Now they are on course to finish on 73 points whilst Manutd are on for 74 points. Whilst we will see an 8 point improvement, they will see a 21 point one in the same time period. Not only have they closed the 14 point gap, but they have pretty much matched our improvement on top of that.

For me, Leicester is proof that so much more can be done in the same period. I think Solskjaer has got a very marginal improvement over two seasons. And I mean over the season Mourinho got sacked. I think it is questionable to say we have even matched 17\18 yet.

It is still possible for them to finish above us, which I think will be a pretty horrific failure considering the disparity in expenditure.
They've done very well and used the title win they had in 2016 as a springboard for further progress (save for the season after which was very much a feeling of after the Lord Mayor's show). Both teams have had different challenges, and yes Leicester's were greater. But that doesn't mean that Ole has done poorly. This squad was in poor shape before he came in and he really hasn't had the backing to shape it in the way that he wants. No first choice targets were acquired last year, and the year before he didn't get the incomings he wanted in midfield and attack despite him doing his side of the bargain and selling off the deadwood and recouping costs. Compare that with the level of signings that LvG and Jose got in gross and net terms, and it really isn't the same.

Both managers have done well, the issue is that one club is geared towards becoming the best they can be in a sporting sense, and the other is merely happy to be taking part and doing the minimum. This is the issue with the fanbase, every summer people will go on at the board during the transfer window, but as soon as its over its like they have amnesia and just focus all their ire on the manager. That's not to say that Ole is innocent, he's made mistakes and very likely has his limitations, but if you're not giving the manager, any manager, the backing which reflects the situation the club finds itself within then you're on a hiding to nothing.

I think the only way this inertia will change under the Glazers is if we restructure the PL TV deal and get a share of it that is more commensurate to our status rather than it being shared, and even if that came to pass I doubt they would actually spend the money on the team.
 

RashyForPM

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I don’t like international breaks when we are winning, but they are good when we are losing. Both fans and players get to reset, especially at a club like ours where the whole squad are internationals.

Now, for Southgate to try to shut San Marino out at Wembley using his 3-4-3, with Rice and Phillips in midfield :lol:
 

KeanoMagicHat

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The Leicester bit is a part I find issue with. How have we allowed them to catch up to us?

Rodgers and Solskjaer took over their teams at about the same time. In the season they took charge, Leicester finished with 52 points whilst Manutd finished with 66. A 14 point gap.

Now they are on course to finish on 73 points whilst Manutd are on for 74 points. Whilst we will see an 8 point improvement, they will see a 21 point one in the same time period. Not only have they closed the 14 point gap, but they have pretty much matched our improvement on top of that.

For me, Leicester is proof that so much more can be done in the same period. I think Solskjaer has got a very marginal improvement over two seasons. And I mean over the season Mourinho got sacked. I think it is questionable to say we have even matched 17\18 yet.

It is still possible for them to finish above us, which I think will be a pretty horrific failure considering the disparity in expenditure.
Leicester have recruited far better than United. Look at Soyuncu playing as well as Maguire for a fraction of the price. Tielemans was somewhat available if we pushed for it, but we didn't. United are doing better than Chelsea (although for how long?), Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal though, who all spent money in different ways.
 

FrankDrebin

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I would feel more confident if half the players who go out on international duty weren't first teamers for their national sides.

I don't know why we cant just have breaks. Surely the world can live without football/soccer for a couple of weeks.
 

OleBoiii

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Being ahead of Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham, mostly by a comfortable margin, and then still focusing solely on the fact that Leicester isn't far behind us, is simply peak negativity :lol:
 

Satissh12

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Somebody should get the number of matches we've played since start of 20-21 till date.. Am sure we'll be among the top 3 in all of Europe.
Hopefully this international break is actually a break for some, especially someone like Fred..
 

The Hilton

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3. Low levels of toxicity surrounding the club
Clearly you haven't been paying attention to RedCafe!

You're right though, looking at the season as a whole there's a lot to be positive about, we're 2nd in the league, deservedly, which is an improvement over last season, especially when you consider how we were stitched up at the start without a pre-season.

Unfortunately the FA cup was just a bridge too far fitness wise for the squad, with only a day or two to prepare, against a top team who had all week to prepare.

Hopefully not many of the boys play during the international break, as they clearly need a rest.
 

Cultured left ankle

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We can expect some miserable weeks in here now, so let's have a thread with some positivity. I'll start us off:

1. We are still improving
We didn't win a single trophy last season and we barely made top 4. Granted, finishing top 4 under those circumstances was quite an achievement, but it was still marginal. We're doing significantly better in the league this year, and that despite not signing a single starter last summer. If we finish top 4 this season, then it will be the first time in the post Fergie era that we finish top 4 twice in a row. It's a minor positive for a club like ours, but a positive nonetheless. Baby steps are better than no steps at all. Oh, and we're still in the Europa League, so our hope of decorating the season with a minor trophy is still not completely lost.

2. This is the "healthiest" squad since Fergie
No, I'm not talking about injuries. I'm talking about a combination of 'quality' and 'age'. Our squad is incredibly young and the first XI isn't half bad either. Whereas LVG's rebuild was a complete failure and Mourinho's rebuild was more short-term, we finally have a solid set of players that we can expect to improve naturally over time. While we obviously still need to sign players, it's comforting that so many of our starting XI players are younger than 25. Even our ace, Bruno, is only 26.

3. Low levels of toxicity surrounding the club
This is not news. There's generally been positive vibes ever since Ole arrived. Maybe not in here, but the players seem happy and motivated. And no matter how hard journalists and pundits try to poke him, Ole is simply unbreakable. Fergie talked about the importance of dealing with the media and how it's the toughest part of the job. Well, Ole aces that part, and we shouldn't take it for granted. Especially not after Moyes, LVG and Mourinho(the latter being an absolute disaster in this respect).

I tend to agree with the majority of what you say here, and I applaud your bravery (albeit internet bravery - but bravery nontheless) for posting this thread.

I would like to think that most sensible people can see shoots of progress over the last 12-24 months and while there is still clearly a lot of work to be done, we need to bear in mind the reality of this season:
  • There is almost no period - especially for us - between games. This means that no only do we get no time to cool off after matches, but there is absolutley no time to prepare for upcoming games OR spend a great deal of time working on (ahem) 'patterns of play'. I wonder if people think we can develop these these things by magic overnight? When games come so thick and fast, I would imagine most training times are spent on making sure we are fit and healthy, while developing on-pitch strategies will likely take longer. we can see progress in individuals (e.g. Shaw; AWB) so I remain positive about our future.
  • There is no (or at least, much less) money. The changes people want - new signings; new manager - where will they come from? We bring in a new manager, with a new philosophy; they will want financial backing. This will mean sourcing and negotiating these players. not to mention probably paying for the new manager. And there is, of course, no gurantee of success there either. We will need to be patient as we see a(nother) new system being implemented. "Oh!" I hear you cry "but look at Chelsea under Tuchel - look at the immediate success he has made!" Uh huh. If only we could point to an immediate bump in form with Ole when he first took over. Oh wait. We did.
Reading all the threads on this site (and reddit) after we lose shows to me who here actually supports the team and has any kind of understanding of the game - at a technical and human level.

Some people need to remember that this is a game in which teams will lose. It's inevitable - this will happen. It's disappointing when it does, and we should learn lessons when we do. One loss does not mean we're the crappest team that ever disgraced the shirt any more than one win makes us the bestest team evah. This descent into tearing of hair, rending of clothing, and gnashing of teeth each time we lose (or not win) is tiring and I can only wonder what kind of pleasure some people get from the sport as a whole. Maybe I don't have high enough standards to be apopletic each time we fail to win every game 6-0 with 100% posession and 25 shots on target?

One thing I like at the moment, relating to the third point in the OP, is that a few years ago I didn't really 'like' most of the players - there was no connection and it wasn't clear if they even enjoyed playing for us. Now I look at the squad and I see a team. There are guys who clearly care and enjoy being here. I find that I like the players and enoy watching us much more now that under past managers. I see progress and we are getting to a point where success should come. Where I am in my life right now, that's what I need.
 

Red & White

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Came in here for a bit of positivity but I think I’ll make a sharp turn back out the door. Didn’t even take my coat off!

Let’s hope we finish second, win the Europa and make a couple of quality additions in the summer.
 

Bilbo

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With regards to Leicester, they were absolutely deserving winners yesterday and Rodgers has done an impressive job there.

I do wonder though how our same of fans would have coped had we thrown away an almost certain top 4 finish last season and then departed the Europa League to Slavia Prague. I wonder whether this latest round of adoration and yearning for Rodgers and half of his team would be as strong as it is, or would we in fact have them labelled as serial bottlers and awfully coached?
 

bosnian_red

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Somebody should get the number of matches we've played since start of 20-21 till date.. Am sure we'll be among the top 3 in all of Europe.
Hopefully this international break is actually a break for some, especially someone like Fred..
Go back to June since football returned. We had the league, Europa League and FA Cup games up until the semi finals for each. And then up until the semi finals of the league cup again and the max possible games up until now by falling into Europa which gives us 2 extra games vs Champions League, and staying in the FA Cup and Europa League until now.
 

bosnian_red

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With regards to Leicester, they were absolutely deserving winners yesterday and Rodgers has done an impressive job there.

I do wonder though how our same of fans would have coped had we thrown away an almost certain top 4 finish last season and then departed the Europa League to Slavia Prague. I wonder whether this latest round of adoration and yearning for Rodgers and half of his team would be as strong as it is, or would we in fact have them labelled as serial bottlers and awfully coached?
Yup. It's like people forget they have a very good team themselves and there isn't a whole lot between either squad, so naturally fitness will play a big part. We could've just thrown out reserves against Sociedad to give ourselves an easier run of games, so we would be fully fit and fresh for the FA Cup game. But then you're just transferring focus from one competition vs another. Winning the Europa League is probably bigger/more beneficial than winning the FA Cup, and tbh it's more realistic. Not sure what the financial prize difference is, but Europa League puts us in pot 1 for the CL group stage, along with putting us in the Super Cup next season. Prestige wise the FA Cup should mean more probably, but I don't think there's a whole lot in it and both are above the league cup anyway as important trophies.

They dropped out of Europa to focus on the league with the few FA cup games being a bonus. We stayed in Europa while we are still 2nd in the league but couldn't fight on 3 fronts. It is what it is. No need to be dramatic over it.
 

Giggsy13

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I didn't see the white text saying 'Brought to you by your local Glazer propaganda branch', so I'll assume this is actually serious.

You people have no standards.
Seems like Joel Glazer had too many mojitos on his florida yacht and started a redcafe account.
 

Bilbo

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Yup. It's like people forget they have a very good team themselves and there isn't a whole lot between either squad, so naturally fitness will play a big part. We could've just thrown out reserves against Sociedad to give ourselves an easier run of games, so we would be fully fit and fresh for the FA Cup game. But then you're just transferring focus from one competition vs another. Winning the Europa League is probably bigger/more beneficial than winning the FA Cup, and tbh it's more realistic. Not sure what the financial prize difference is, but Europa League puts us in pot 1 for the CL group stage, along with putting us in the Super Cup next season. Prestige wise the FA Cup should mean more probably, but I don't think there's a whole lot in it and both are above the league cup anyway as important trophies.

They dropped out of Europa to focus on the league with the few FA cup games being a bonus. We stayed in Europa while we are still 2nd in the league but couldn't fight on 3 fronts. It is what it is. No need to be dramatic over it.
Its not even close. Guaranteed CL place. Pot 1 seeding. Higher prize money. Place in the Super Cup.
 

R77

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Funny thread!

I tend to agree with the majority of what you say here, and I applaud your bravery (albeit internet bravery - but bravery nontheless) for posting this thread.

I would like to think that most sensible people can see shoots of progress over the last 12-24 months and while there is still clearly a lot of work to be done, we need to bear in mind the reality of this season:
  • There is almost no period - especially for us - between games. This means that no only do we get no time to cool off after matches, but there is absolutley no time to prepare for upcoming games OR spend a great deal of time working on (ahem) 'patterns of play'. I wonder if people think we can develop these these things by magic overnight? When games come so thick and fast, I would imagine most training times are spent on making sure we are fit and healthy, while developing on-pitch strategies will likely take longer. we can see progress in individuals (e.g. Shaw; AWB) so I remain positive about our future.
  • There is no (or at least, much less) money. The changes people want - new signings; new manager - where will they come from? We bring in a new manager, with a new philosophy; they will want financial backing. This will mean sourcing and negotiating these players. not to mention probably paying for the new manager. And there is, of course, no gurantee of success there either. We will need to be patient as we see a(nother) new system being implemented. "Oh!" I hear you cry "but look at Chelsea under Tuchel - look at the immediate success he has made!" Uh huh. If only we could point to an immediate bump in form with Ole when he first took over. Oh wait. We did.
Reading all the threads on this site (and reddit) after we lose shows to me who here actually supports the team and has any kind of understanding of the game - at a technical and human level.

Some people need to remember that this is a game in which teams will lose. It's inevitable - this will happen. It's disappointing when it does, and we should learn lessons when we do. One loss does not mean we're the crappest team that ever disgraced the shirt any more than one win makes us the bestest team evah. This descent into tearing of hair, rending of clothing, and gnashing of teeth each time we lose (or not win) is tiring and I can only wonder what kind of pleasure some people get from the sport as a whole. Maybe I don't have high enough standards to be apopletic each time we fail to win every game 6-0 with 100% posession and 25 shots on target?

One thing I like at the moment, relating to the third point in the OP, is that a few years ago I didn't really 'like' most of the players - there was no connection and it wasn't clear if they even enjoyed playing for us. Now I look at the squad and I see a team. There are guys who clearly care and enjoy being here. I find that I like the players and enoy watching us much more now that under past managers. I see progress and we are getting to a point where success should come. Where I am in my life right now, that's what I need.
Good post, agree with everything and written better than I could have done. I gave up trying to combat the toxicity many months ago, the pointlessness of it means I can't even be arsed to formulate positive arguments anymore. Much respect to those who can and do in here.
 

bosnian_red

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Its not even close. Guaranteed CL place. Pot 1 seeding. Higher prize money. Place in the Super Cup.
Generally yeah but if you're already a decent seeding and in the CL (like if you win the league but were stuck in the Europa League), then picking between the FA Cup and the Europa League would be a lot closer IMO. Plenty of pride and honor to win the main domestic cup competition, but same for the Europa League with the bonus of being in the Super Cup next season, and extra prize money. I'm not sure what trophy players would value more, FA Cup or Europa League. Maybe domestic players would favor the FA Cup more and all others Europa League more? At club level definitely winning Europa League would mean more though, as it counts as a major European trophy.
 

MU655

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Leicester have recruited far better than United. Look at Soyuncu playing as well as Maguire for a fraction of the price. Tielemans was somewhat available if we pushed for it, but we didn't. United are doing better than Chelsea (although for how long?), Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal though, who all spent money in different ways.
Chelsea is a massive concern. I would say they are a striker away from having a massive jump in points, and potentially leaving us behind. They have conceded 2 in 12 games under Tuchel and are dominant in possession in pretty much every game. They also create enough chances, but they just lack that person in the middle.

I would say our signings could be improved upon, but I still think more can be got out of what we have. The problem I have with us is that we always seem to need more signings.

Chelsea looked like a team that needed loads of players, but now look like a team that could thrive if they sign one quality striker. Tuchel has changed Chelsea into a much better team within a month or two.

We still look like we need a right-winger, a striker, two midfielders, potentially another centre back, and potentially another goalkeeper. Do we actually need this or could another manager get more out of what we have?

You could say Rodgers has done the same with Leicester. So many of their players have improved under him. Ndidi, Soyuncu, Tielemans, Barnes, and Iheanacho (recently) were not really talked about much before he had them. Tielemans had disappeared at Monaco. They were playing in a team that only got 52 points in 18/19. Ndidi and Tielemans weren't really being talked about as signings, but suddenly we need them. Is it them we need or the manager?
 
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Bilbo

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Generally yeah but if you're already a decent seeding and in the CL (like if you win the league but were stuck in the Europa League), then picking between the FA Cup and the Europa League would be a lot closer IMO. Plenty of pride and honor to win the main domestic cup competition, but same for the Europa League with the bonus of being in the Super Cup next season, and extra prize money. I'm not sure what trophy players would value more, FA Cup or Europa League. Maybe domestic players would favor the FA Cup more and all others Europa League more? At club level definitely winning Europa League would mean more though, as it counts as a major European trophy.
Im sure every player would love to have at least one FA Cup medal by the time they finish playing. Certainly English players. I do feel that the FA Cup has lost a lot of its esteem these days though, and I'd probably be in favour of giving the 4th CL spot to the winner (or at least a much higher prize pool) but it'll never happen.

I think Ole made the right decision prioritising the EL game over this one.
 

Xaviboy

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Some positivity for international break.

Not if you have to support Republic of Ireland. Another weekend of crap football to watch. Think Luxembourg might be rubbing their hands knowing they have a good chance for 3 points.
 

Bilbo

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Chelsea is a massive concern. I would say they are a striker away from having a massive jump in points, and potentially leaving us behind. They have conceded 2 in 12 games under Tuchel and are dominant in possession in pretty much every game. They also create enough chances, but they just lack that person in the middle.

I would say our signings could be improved upon, but I still think more can be got out of what we have. The problem I have with us is that we always seem to need more signings.

Chelsea looked like a team that needed loads of players, but now look like a team that could thrive if they sign one quality striker. Tuchel has changed Chelsea into a much better team within a month or two.

We still look like we need a right-winger, a striker, two midfielders, potentially another centre back, and potentially another goalkeeper. Do we actually need this or could another manager get more out of what we have?

You could say Rodgers has done the same with Leicester. So many of their players have improved under him. Ndidi, Tielemans, Barnes, and Iheanacho (recently) were not really talked about much when he inherited them. They were playing in a team that only got 52 points in 18/19. Ndidi and Tielemans weren't really being talked about as signings, but suddenly we need them. Is it them we need or the manager?
Neither (although they do have some attractive players). As has been said this is the same manager and group of players that badly struggled when a top 4 finish was nigh on certain, and that just got knocked out of Europe by Slavia Prague. It is right to praise them as they deserve to be praised, but before we all look on enviously we should remember these recent failings and ask ourselves if our toxic fanbase would all be labelling them serial bottlers and under-achievers - (SPOILER: we would).

A fresher United were IMO much the better side when we played there at Christmas. We are doing okay, better than okay really, and we will be a stronger team next season with a couple of additions. Until then, lets enjoy the journey of trying to secure 2nd and win the EL
 

Crashoutcassius

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Ole is doing a good job. Football is decent under more normal circumstances but needs to improve. One team in the league is playing good football, man city. Liverpool and Chelsea don't couldn't stand up to this season's rigours , United have done a better job than them.

Going to be hard to improve without the club making singings so ultimately we will be onto our next boom and bust cycle with max Allegri or something before long , but ole has done well and hopefully can see out this insane season with similar results as we have been getting, keep focus on Europa but also keep up league performances to try get 2nd, which is worthless but fans will use any 'collapse' to bash him so that they can look less stupis on an internet forum
 

Zeno

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I see a lot of progress over the last couple of years. Similar to the progress over 2005 & 2006 when a lot of exciting young players were coming through at United and Chelsea were looking uncatchable. Now if we can just find our “Carrick” (signed in July 2006) to bring it all together then I think the next 5 years could be fantastic.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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Love that argument, "if this, then this"
Ridiculous.
Well, if bergkamp hadn't missed his pen, there's no treble.
If Ruud hadn't hit the bar, there's no invincibles.
If Shevchenko had scored, there's no Istanbul.

We're second because we've earned it. Not because Liverpool shit a bollock, not because Lampard failed, but because we earned it.
This being after a horrific start no preseason and a pathetic transfer window.

Are city top because Liverpool collapsed? No.
But rather than accept that were doing surprisingly well despite the state the clubs in, there's a number of posters intent on shitting on everything.
Because we arent doing well. We are shit 3 out of every 4 games. Luckily, those below us have had shit games as well. Or in liverpools case, shit the bed and started flailling their arms about in it. Did we earn it in that we got the points? Yes. Is this progress? No. We are no better off under Ole than we were under LVG and Jose, but with less silverware to show for it. We look like we have improved compared to last season. But really, we have just come up to the norm. After that night in Paris, Ole went 7 wins in 27 games in all comps over the end of the 18/19 season and the start of the 19/20 season. This is why on paper we look better now than last season.

Considering how shit we are playing, we are indeed doing surprisingly well.
 

rron10

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  • There is almost no period - especially for us - between games. This means that no only do we get no time to cool off after matches, but there is absolutley no time to prepare for upcoming games OR spend a great deal of time working on (ahem) 'patterns of play'. I wonder if people think we can develop these these things by magic overnight? When games come so thick and fast, I would imagine most training times are spent on making sure we are fit and healthy, while developing on-pitch strategies will likely take longer. we can see progress in individuals (e.g. Shaw; AWB) so I remain positive about our future.
  • There is no (or at least, much less) money. The changes people want - new signings; new manager - where will they come from? We bring in a new manager, with a new philosophy; they will want financial backing. This will mean sourcing and negotiating these players. not to mention probably paying for the new manager. And there is, of course, no gurantee of success there either. We will need to be patient as we see a(nother) new system being implemented. "Oh!" I hear you cry "but look at Chelsea under Tuchel - look at the immediate success he has made!" Uh huh. If only we could point to an immediate bump in form with Ole when he first took over. Oh wait. We did
What about City ? Chelsea ? Liverpool or Arsenal ? They've played more or less the same number of games as we did.
That is no excuse, every modern top club has to deal of a congested season, that is why we have 22-23 players.

Since Ole arrived, we improved in some aspects, no doubt, counter attacks, defense against some type of opponents, individual performances (players like Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, MCT, Martial for 1 season, Greenwood, Rashford slightly).

But...
Can we defend set pieces ? Nope...
Can we pass from the back to bypass opposition pressing ? Not unless we play a Ligue 2 team...
Can we create something against packed defenses ? Not unless Bruno invents something special
Can we be dangerous from the wings and whip in good crosses for our attackers ? Rarely...and that's only on the left side

I don't think we should change the manager, not unless we finish outside top 4, but without some very good players next summer we will probably play the same.
 

always_hoping

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Yup. It's like people forget they have a very good team themselves and there isn't a whole lot between either squad, so naturally fitness will play a big part. We could've just thrown out reserves against Sociedad to give ourselves an easier run of games, so we would be fully fit and fresh for the FA Cup game. But then you're just transferring focus from one competition vs another. Winning the Europa League is probably bigger/more beneficial than winning the FA Cup, and tbh it's more realistic. Not sure what the financial prize difference is, but Europa League puts us in pot 1 for the CL group stage, along with putting us in the Super Cup next season. Prestige wise the FA Cup should mean more probably, but I don't think there's a whole lot in it and both are above the league cup anyway as important trophies.

They dropped out of Europa to focus on the league with the few FA cup games being a bonus. We stayed in Europa while we are still 2nd in the league but couldn't fight on 3 fronts. It is what it is. No need to be dramatic over it.
For winning the FA Cup final £1,8m is the prize money.

United have already received 1.6m for winning the round of 32,16 of the Europa league.

If United win the Europa league quarter final they will receive another €1,5m, winning a semi final €2,4m and final win is €8,5m
 

Mount's Goatieson

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Chelsea is a massive concern. I would say they are a striker away from having a massive jump in points, and potentially leaving us behind. They have conceded 2 in 12 games under Tuchel and are dominant in possession in pretty much every game. They also create enough chances, but they just lack that person in the middle.

I would say our signings could be improved upon, but I still think more can be got out of what we have. The problem I have with us is that we always seem to need more signings.

Chelsea looked like a team that needed loads of players, but now look like a team that could thrive if they sign one quality striker. Tuchel has changed Chelsea into a much better team within a month or two.

We still look like we need a right-winger, a striker, two midfielders, potentially another centre back, and potentially another goalkeeper. Do we actually need this or could another manager get more out of what we have?

You could say Rodgers has done the same with Leicester. So many of their players have improved under him. Ndidi, Soyuncu, Tielemans, Barnes, and Iheanacho (recently) were not really talked about much before he had them. Tielemans had disappeared at Monaco. They were playing in a team that only got 52 points in 18/19. Ndidi and Tielemans weren't really being talked about as signings, but suddenly we need them. Is it them we need or the manager?
You just need a top class Coach.
 

croadyman

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You really think he might go after getting us QF in FA cup, probably second in the league and who knows where in Europe.
Definitely not because the story puppet and those yankee leeches are happy to keep the cheap and cheerful option, said it before but I am convinced he could finish anywhere in the top 6 and they would still believe in the process
 

croadyman

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Chelsea is a massive concern. I would say they are a striker away from having a massive jump in points, and potentially leaving us behind. They have conceded 2 in 12 games under Tuchel and are dominant in possession in pretty much every game. They also create enough chances, but they just lack that person in the middle.

I would say our signings could be improved upon, but I still think more can be got out of what we have. The problem I have with us is that we always seem to need more signings.

Chelsea looked like a team that needed loads of players, but now look like a team that could thrive if they sign one quality striker. Tuchel has changed Chelsea into a much better team within a month or two.

We still look like we need a right-winger, a striker, two midfielders, potentially another centre back, and potentially another goalkeeper. Do we actually need this or could another manager get more out of what we have?

You could say Rodgers has done the same with Leicester. So many of their players have improved under him. Ndidi, Soyuncu, Tielemans, Barnes, and Iheanacho (recently) were not really talked about much before he had them. Tielemans had disappeared at Monaco. They were playing in a team that only got 52 points in 18/19. Ndidi and Tielemans weren't really being talked about as signings, but suddenly we need them. Is it them we need or the manager?
Would only need one midfielder if Pogba stays, however if he leaves then definitely need two but unfortunately the club see things very differently to the rest of us and it will make do with what we have by the looks of it
 

Crashoutcassius

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What people don't seem to understand is that spurs Chelsea arsenal and Liverpool are having terrible seasons because it is a hard season to be consistent, even with better squads than United. Even city had a bad patch and they have 2 world class players in every position, their 40m.summer signing has started less than half the games Donny has and apparently we spent way too much in a back up.. levels
 

WR10

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You forgot to mention the Glazers and investors are very happy with the way things have gone in the past 2 quarters.

What’s happening on the pitch means feck all at the end of the day.

this is a publicly traded company
 

meamth

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I tend to agree with the majority of what you say here, and I applaud your bravery (albeit internet bravery - but bravery nontheless) for posting this thread.

I would like to think that most sensible people can see shoots of progress over the last 12-24 months and while there is still clearly a lot of work to be done, we need to bear in mind the reality of this season:
  • There is almost no period - especially for us - between games. This means that no only do we get no time to cool off after matches, but there is absolutley no time to prepare for upcoming games OR spend a great deal of time working on (ahem) 'patterns of play'. I wonder if people think we can develop these these things by magic overnight? When games come so thick and fast, I would imagine most training times are spent on making sure we are fit and healthy, while developing on-pitch strategies will likely take longer. we can see progress in individuals (e.g. Shaw; AWB) so I remain positive about our future.
  • There is no (or at least, much less) money. The changes people want - new signings; new manager - where will they come from? We bring in a new manager, with a new philosophy; they will want financial backing. This will mean sourcing and negotiating these players. not to mention probably paying for the new manager. And there is, of course, no gurantee of success there either. We will need to be patient as we see a(nother) new system being implemented. "Oh!" I hear you cry "but look at Chelsea under Tuchel - look at the immediate success he has made!" Uh huh. If only we could point to an immediate bump in form with Ole when he first took over. Oh wait. We did.
Reading all the threads on this site (and reddit) after we lose shows to me who here actually supports the team and has any kind of understanding of the game - at a technical and human level.

Some people need to remember that this is a game in which teams will lose. It's inevitable - this will happen. It's disappointing when it does, and we should learn lessons when we do. One loss does not mean we're the crappest team that ever disgraced the shirt any more than one win makes us the bestest team evah. This descent into tearing of hair, rending of clothing, and gnashing of teeth each time we lose (or not win) is tiring and I can only wonder what kind of pleasure some people get from the sport as a whole. Maybe I don't have high enough standards to be apopletic each time we fail to win every game 6-0 with 100% posession and 25 shots on target?

One thing I like at the moment, relating to the third point in the OP, is that a few years ago I didn't really 'like' most of the players - there was no connection and it wasn't clear if they even enjoyed playing for us. Now I look at the squad and I see a team. There are guys who clearly care and enjoy being here. I find that I like the players and enoy watching us much more now that under past managers. I see progress and we are getting to a point where success should come. Where I am in my life right now, that's what I need.
Couldn't agree more. 2nd season syndrome is the hardest test for any manager when they have to build the team.
 

BoltonWanderer

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I probably see things a bit different to all you hardcore United fans who keep up to date on all the information on transfers, the board etc., but from the outside, I think what's happening now is really impressive.

As a club, United seem to be in the best position they've been in since Ferguson left. I think there's definitely room for improvement in the squad, and I think that's the biggest problem holding the team back, but I like the squad at the same time. When you look at the number of players brought in and the number of players who've left under Ole, he's been a part of a massive restructure. From a quick look, Ole has brought in 12 players to be around the first team and let 13 go, so that's 25 players in a couple of years, it's been a big job, yet I look at United now and I see a 'sensible' squad, plenty of good characters, and the basis there for a resurgance.

If Ole was to go now, then he would be leaving a project that isn't yet complete but a lot of the parts are in place for what could be a title winning season in a couple of years.

I know it's never fast enough but it's not long ago that United fans were asking for an overhaul, saying that it'd be ok to go without titles for a few years if you can start afresh. Unfortunately, that means you have to take losing games on the chin and I think that's something United fans have struggled with, just because of years of high expectations. That's fine too, by the way, I don't think United fans should lower their expectations in general because it's a massive club but I do think there's an inevitability about a period like this.

Whether Solskjaer can win titles for United or not, I don't know. I like him as a manager but it's incredibly hard to win leagues or cups, so it'll be tough, but I don't think his position should be under any kind of threat. This is the kind of lull being should have expected considering there's been an overhaul and right now, the pressure should be on the board to deliver in the transfer window. Sign Grealish and Haaland, then United should start expecting silverware but at the moment, this squad - which I do like - is the biggest issue United have. It needs two or three world class players to lift them up to that next tier.

I'm enjoying watching United at the moment though, I think it's an exciting project and I hope the funding is there to kick on.
 
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Crashoutcassius

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Yea, if top 4 is your thing, sure. I mean why not we are only one of the biggest club in the world football.
i guess the point it, should we cut off the nose to spite the face and sack ole even with no plan in place to improve.

fans now saying max allegri guarantees success, same as they said about mourinho and lvg, who had both won the title at every club they had bee at before they joined us.

i understand if people want a fresh approach but a real danger we go backwards again, and the new manager gets rid of players that we have just brought it. it is no wonder city have the best squad in the league and we have a terrible squad despite our squad being comparably expensive to theirs, it is that the squad is made up of players that suit ferguson, moyes, mourinho, lvg and ole and plenty of square pegs