Souness at it again…

Fluctuation0161

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
8,210
Location
Manchester
Typical expected replies to my earlier post. Likely from people who have never experienced racial bias.

Racial bias is much more prevalent than some people would like to admit. From the media coverage is Sterling to Souness and his vendetta against Pogba. See below.

https://www.republicworld.com/sport...ogise-for-graeme-souness-racist-comments.html

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...e-speaking-race-moise-kean-sky-sports-everton

https://www.shoutoutuk.org/2021/11/08/a-curious-case-of-racial-bias-in-football-punditry/

At the very least Souness and his rash behaviour is knee jerk and is influenced by his unconscious bias.
 

Longshanks

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
1,823
You said Souness was right about Pogba. Go have a look at the sky sports pre game, City v Spurs last season when United beat Leeds and Pogba got 4 assists.

He said, for 90m player, you expect 4 assists a game, but for Grealish he said no thats not what he expects.

How is he right about that?

The issue with Martinez is aeriel balls, can you please point to me another CB with a better aeriel duels % won this season? So how is he the highest percentage if he is not going for aeriel duels?

That was also not the only thing Souness said, he said he is not good at other elements of defending too. How is that correct?
Iv said the issue isn't the aerial duels he actively attempts to win, its the ones he won't attempt because he cant, his aerial duel success % is a bit of a false stat because unlike and big tall CB who will go for everything, Martinez only goes for ones he actually thinks he can win and just tries to disrupt or concentrates on winning the second ball on the ones he cant because he isn't physically big enough to compete for all of the high balls he will face. Like I say jury still out, I really hope me and Graham souness are wrong.

I don't agree with Sounees that he isnt very good at other aspects of defending clearly he is very very good at ground duels which is why he may be able to get away with being 'vertically challenged'.

In terms of Pogba I'm not talking about specific comments souness made, but more about the very clear fact that he didn't rate Pogba at all, he was nowhere near as good and consistent as he should of been for us, and its had nothing to do with a lack of talent which is by far the most frustrating thing. He was right about Pogba even if at times he went way overboard with his critiscm.
 

Member 125398

Guest
If every team wants to target him with long balls, great, that's predictable and easy to set up against. Souness's logic would imply that any team with Peter Crouch would be invincible.
 

captaincantona

Full Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
1,617
Iv said the issue isn't the aerial duels he actively attempts to win, its the ones he won't attempt because he cant, his aerial duel success % is a bit of a false stat because unlike and big tall CB who will go for everything, Martinez only goes for ones he actually thinks he can win and just tries to disrupt or concentrates on winning the second ball on the ones he cant because he isn't physically big enough to compete for all of the high balls he will face. Like I say jury still out, I really hope me and Graham souness are wrong.

I don't agree with Sounees that he isnt very good at other aspects of defending clearly he is very very good at ground duels which is why he may be able to get away with being 'vertically challenged'.

In terms of Pogba I'm not talking about specific comments souness made, but more about the very clear fact that he didn't rate Pogba at all, he was nowhere near as good and consistent as he should of been for us, and its had nothing to do with a lack of talent which is by far the most frustrating thing. He was right about Pogba even if at times he went way overboard with his critiscm.
Sometimes the eye test is just better than stats…Martinez has not been an issue whatsoever in any of our games full stop. He has not once cause the same type of issues we repeatedly saw with Maguire/Lindelof/Bailly/Tuanzebe/ Bisakka/ Shaw…stemming from simple lack of composure and a poor touch. He has been competent and refreshing and based on his actual performances should not even be discussed other than that he is settling in well. Young enough player, different language, new country, new league that a lot of players need time to adapt to - so far, the guy is taking it in his stride.

Souness is making mischief. Simple
 

Abizzz

Full Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
7,734
Never understood why being a liverpool legend 40 years ago still makes him relevant today. Don't think i've ever heard anything from him other than "attitude, mentality" stuff anyone can and does come up with. Did he do anything in coaching other then damage his brand?
 

BaguetteBoy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
893
Location
London via Mauritius
Now that Pogba is gone he needs a new outlet for his United hate. Seems he went early on Martinez. What will he say if Antony god knows. Will be funny either way all know he’s just a senile old man
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
Iv said the issue isn't the aerial duels he actively attempts to win, its the ones he won't attempt because he cant, his aerial duel success % is a bit of a false stat because unlike and big tall CB who will go for everything, Martinez only goes for ones he actually thinks he can win and just tries to disrupt or concentrates on winning the second ball on the ones he cant because he isn't physically big enough to compete for all of the high balls he will face. Like I say jury still out, I really hope me and Graham souness are wrong.

I don't agree with Sounees that he isnt very good at other aspects of defending clearly he is very very good at ground duels which is why he may be able to get away with being 'vertically challenged'.

In terms of Pogba I'm not talking about specific comments souness made, but more about the very clear fact that he didn't rate Pogba at all, he was nowhere near as good and consistent as he should of been for us, and its had nothing to do with a lack of talent which is by far the most frustrating thing. He was right about Pogba even if at times he went way overboard with his critiscm.
You see, that’s nonsense as well. I think v Brighton a lot of longer balls went to Welbecks chest so this narrative of it’s not really long balls because Martinez didn’t contest it suddenly became the standard. Teams aren’t pinging balls up for knock ons etc with Martinez looking up from the ground.
It seems like it’s become a narrative so people are following the through lines of the narrative instead of actually watching what’s going on in the pitch.
Go back 20 years to the long ball days and you’ll see some of the best CBs in history get beaten to knock ons from well outside the box to hit runners in behind etc. Those were the days when 90 percent of teams didn’t play it out so hit it long. Didn’t mean all those CBS were shit in the air. What they had was cover in behind from their CB partner so they had nothing to hit if they did win the ball.
Even VVD doesn’t get inpatient and try to nick balls from in front of an attacker. You’ll constantly see him let the attacker take a ball down but cut off his options when he does.
If modern teams want to go back to that against us then fine. We can’t start “well actually” Martinez when his flaw isn’t as big of a flaw as it’s made out to be.
Let’s actually see him struggle in the air before we pretend he already does.
 

Longshanks

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
1,823
Typical expected replies to my earlier post. Likely from people who have never experienced racial bias.

Racial bias is much more prevalent than some people would like to admit. From the media coverage is Sterling to Souness and his vendetta against Pogba. See below.

https://www.republicworld.com/sport...ogise-for-graeme-souness-racist-comments.html

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...e-speaking-race-moise-kean-sky-sports-everton

https://www.shoutoutuk.org/2021/11/08/a-curious-case-of-racial-bias-in-football-punditry/

At the very least Souness and his rash behaviour is knee jerk and is influenced by his unconscious bias.
Souness's vendetta against pogba has nothing to do with race, the only reason anyone believes it is to do with race is because its an old white man critiscing and black man. If anything the racial bias is against Souness because he is white.

Souness's vendetta against Pogba is he dosent like or rate him and that because he is an incredibly talented footballer who essentially flopped while making a huge amount of money not because he wasn't good enough but because he wasn't willing to give his all every minute of every game.
 

NLunited

Full Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
4,190
Location
US
Souness's vendetta against pogba has nothing to do with race, the only reason anyone believes it is to do with race is because its an old white man critiscing and black man. If anything the racial bias is against Souness because he is white.

Souness's vendetta against Pogba is he dosent like or rate him and that because he is an incredibly talented footballer who essentially flopped while making a huge amount of money not because he wasn't good enough but because he wasn't willing to give his all every minute of every game.
Yes Pogba criticism was certainly partly deserved. However in Martinez’ case the criticism is ridiculous, both statwise and what can be seen just watching a game.

He is aggressive and hard working, the sort of player that becomes a fan favorite. On top of that he can play football. If there are no valid reasons to criticize him, it starts looking suspect to pick on him so hard.

He might be going after him because he’s so good, in fact. Or he’s racist.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

New Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,363
Souness's vendetta against pogba has nothing to do with race, the only reason anyone believes it is to do with race is because its an old white man critiscing and black man. If anything the racial bias is against Souness because he is white.

Souness's vendetta against Pogba is he dosent like or rate him and that because he is an incredibly talented footballer who essentially flopped while making a huge amount of money not because he wasn't good enough but because he wasn't willing to give his all every minute of every game.
:lol:

Thank god for this forum.
 

OverratedOpinion

Full Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2017
Messages
6,825
I have never seen Graham Souness offer any valuable tactical insight into a football game that he has just watched as a pundit. I have never heard him provide an evaluation of a player or his abilities that made me sit back and say "oh that is true, I had never thought that". Pretty bad going considering I have watched football on sky sports all my life and he has been a pundit there for 20 odd years.

He is still employed because Sky Sports see entertainment value in having a glib pundit to throw opinions in and start an impassioned debate. I imagine Sky will eventually realise what most of their viewers probably have already. Roy Keane has taken that role but does so with a degree of charm and charisma that Souness has never had.

He probably does know a hell of a lot about football having been a very good player and spent a good amount of time as a manager but he has spent so much time making millions from offering intentionally negative soundbites that he has become totally entrenched in it to the level that his opinions on the game are utterly meaningless.

Not a fan in case you couldn't tell.
 

Cutch

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
16,442
Location
Northern Ireland. Stretty W3102, Row 2, Seat 129
He does my head in. Can't say anything good about us at all. If we play well he'll say 'but it's Manchester United and they've spent a billion pound, its the least you should expect' type nonsense. Says we couldn't have played well against Liverpool cos we had 30% possession and yet against Brentford we had 67% possession and were shocking
 

redshaw

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
9,882
Does he talk about Chelsea Arsenal Spurs? Has he gone to town on Lukaku, Werner Ndombele Pepe?
 

lefty_jakobz

I ❤️ moses
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
3,648
Liverpool fanboy criticising their biggest rivals….shock horror.
GS was a shorty aswell. LM will be getting plaudits by the end of this season for how good he has been watch this space
 

Rooney in Paris

Gerrard shirt..Anfield? You'll Never Live it Down
Scout
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
36,175
Location
In an elephant sanctuary
Souness's vendetta against pogba has nothing to do with race, the only reason anyone believes it is to do with race is because its an old white man critiscing and black man. If anything the racial bias is against Souness because he is white.
Wow. The Caf delivers, yet again.
 

Huddsred

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 27, 2022
Messages
243
He's a former Liverpool legend. I would expect nothing else from him.
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
8,021
Location
Ireland
Simple, If your a midfielder, your not as good as he was.
If you are a hard tackler, your not as good as he was.
If you are a moaner, your not as good as he IS.
 

swooshboy

Band of Brothers
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
10,774
Location
London
Unpopular opnion, but he was right about Pogba. And I don't think he is wrong about Martinez. There are going to be games where he struggles to cope with big physical strikers.

Luckily for him he hasn't really faced any in the last 2 games so he has looked good, also in those games we have mostly sat deep and never really got into a high line so its much easier to defend.

I'm not writing him off, but the jury is definitely still out.
But surely he was bought because he can defend against "big, physical strikers"?

 

Pascal Quiff

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 8, 2022
Messages
404
Supports
Liverpool
Tell me you’ve used the phrase ‘All Lives Matter’ without telling me you’ve used the phrase ‘All Lives Matter’.
This latest trend of using the phrase "tell me without telling me" really grates on me. Why not just call Longshanks a bigot?
 

Ema_datsi

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 10, 2022
Messages
76
He’s just an OAP edge lord with a xenophobic streak and hints of racism. Sky have him on because he gets a reaction out of people, and not because he offers any insight into the game. Maybe some find it entertaining, but it gets old fast. Like the village drunkard that goes into tirades and sometimes flashes in public, Souness is best left ignored or laughed at.
 

Ladron de redcafe

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
3,687
Souness's vendetta against pogba has nothing to do with race, the only reason anyone believes it is to do with race is because its an old white man critiscing and black man. If anything the racial bias is against Souness because he is white.
Come on mate. Do you really believe what you just said?
 

Arruda

Love is in the air, everywhere I look around
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
12,584
Location
Azores
Supports
Porto
Good to see you around. Over 20 years since we were discussing swimming etc.
20 years, feck my life. At some point you all seemed crazy, 10 years on a forum. It's been 13 for me now.

This will be an interesting place in another 30 years or so. I'm not leaving. Doing nothing here, don't watch football, barely post, but still here, every day.
 

EngimaMK

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 23, 2018
Messages
645
The racist inquisitors are out in force I see...

Souness had a dislike of a tall, brown guy. Now he dislikes a short, white guy.

He's a dick, sure, but people are absolutely desperate to see racism everywhere. Must be exhausting.
 

ColvaleGoa

Full Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
4,657
Location
Susegaad!
He got Simon Jordan stoking his ego. SJ knows more controversial means more clicks.

And SJ has already started his vitriol against ETH . Already called him a small man in a big suit etc.

Just chuckle and ignore.
 

Flexdegea

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
2,342
The racist inquisitors are out in force I see...

Souness had a dislike of a tall, brown guy. Now he dislikes a short, white guy.

He's a dick, sure, but people are absolutely desperate to see racism everywhere. Must be exhausting.

I'm assuming you mean Martinez because I'm not sure he is white?
 

giggs-beckham

Clueless
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,057
20 years, feck my life. At some point you all seemed crazy, 10 years on a forum. It's been 13 for me now.

This will be an interesting place in another 30 years or so. I'm not leaving. Doing nothing here, don't watch football, barely post, but still here, every day.
Hear you brother
 

Boondog

New Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2022
Messages
699
There is no reason to assume that Souness is racist. If you want to prove that, then go back and show his takes are clearly against people of color or whatever it is you believe.

Burden of proof lies on the person throwing racism labels around. We can't go from some voice in the crowd shouting racism to the person needing to be defended. Prove there is a case. Him disliking a couple or even a few players of color is not sufficient to prove a damn thing.
 

Rightnr

Wants players fined for winning away.
Joined
Jan 25, 2015
Messages
14,768
Souness is at worst a xenophobe and at best a dumbass Scouse twat. I'd go for the latter.