Spurs - punished for not investing whilst at the top?

[matherto]

People forget that 2015-16 was a freak season whereby all of the normal top teams were shite. A bit like this season minus Liverpool.

Leicester took advantage where Spurs really should've.

It's not really been that Spurs have gotten worse (this season excepted) but that the others got better again and Spurs returned to their natural place.

They had one chance to win something domestically and they blew it finishing 3rd in a two horse race.

They had one chance to win something on the European scene that they bottled because they're Spurs and they bottle things. Pochettino lost the dressing room that night by not playing Lucas Moura who'd fluked them into the final and playing his favourite - Kane instead when nowhere near fit and it's been downhill since then. Once the players realise who the favourites are there's no incentive for anyone to play well.

The likes of Alli aren't actually that good and Son would be a very useful squad player in a title winning side rather than an automatic starter. Kane has regressed with injuries/overuse too and Eriksen saw the writing on the wall and fecked off.

Mourinho will destroy them.

 

[Red00012]

They thought putting in a cheese room was more important and fecked that up too.

 

[Florida Man]

I think the premise of the question is all wrong to begin with. They weren't punished. Rather, their mere existence is punishment.

 

[edcunited1878]

Even under Poch's best form, they were always one key player more away from being an actual, worthy title challenger. They were always missing that one player that it factor who could get them over the hump...but it never came.

Now they've regressed tremendously in that they never replaced Danny Rose, Sanchez hasn't really asserted himself as a #1 CB, Aurier isn't as effective as Trippier, there's zero replacement for Eriksen as Ndombele has been a flop. Alli has regressed and really normalized as a player. Son isn't on a purple patch hot streak. Lucas Moura is off his purple patch. And Harry Kane is a shadow of himself. AND they have Jose as manager.

It's all gone to shit and Levy and Spurs deserve all that and more. Should have supported Poch and maintained his leadership through his team's downturn in fortune, form, and transition. They were regressing in league position for consecutive years, but the CL run totally painted over the cracks and has proven to be an huge over performance and fluke...but that's the romance of a cup competition or in Spurs's case, a huge false positive.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Punished for investing in a vanity project thinly disguised as a stadium more like. It's genuinely insane that they borrowed so much capital to build a giant toilet bowl replete with totally superfluous features while letting the team atrophy. Says it all really - it was a project meant to puff up Levy's legacy rather than something for the actual good of the football club.

Success breeds success. At least when Arsenal decided to build the Emirates they were among the best teams in the world. Spurs got jealous of the shiny new toy their neighbors had and just had to have their own prematurely instead of trying to build upon the initial foundation they'd established to the point of actually being a successful football club.

 

[AltiUn]

They kept the same players for too long, they should have done what liverpool did and sell a few of their best players to reinvest in the team. Players like Dier, Rose and Toby could have gone for good money at one point. But they tried to be too smart about things.

Tell you what though, I'm glad they didn't sell them because we were interested in all 3 at one point

 

[sammsky1]

They didn't had the money to invest and still don't.

This is the main point. They didn’t have the money to kick on. Especially after fronting the costs for a new stadium. So it’s a false hypothesis.

Once their stadium starts generating serious numbers, and if they are lucky enough to get another Poch type manager who can build a team relatively cheaply, they may find it possible to enter the top band of teams, but that’s now at least 5 years away.

 

[RedRob]

Punished for investing in a vanity project thinly disguised as a stadium more like. It's genuinely insane that they borrowed so much capital to build a giant toilet bowl replete with totally superfluous features while letting the team atrophy. Says it all really - it was a project meant to puff up Levy's legacy rather than something for the actual good of the football club.

Success breeds success. At least when Arsenal decided to build the Emirates they were among the best teams in the world. Spurs got jealous of the shiny new toy their neighbors had and just had to have their own prematurely instead of trying to build upon the initial foundation they'd established to the point of actually being a successful football club.

Spurs will do anything for a trophy.
Whoever thought bringing in glorified squad players like Sessegnon, Bergwijn and Ndombele for more money apiece than the reported fees for Eriksen or Trippier needs to take a look at themselves.

 

[meamth]

I think it was the wrong decision to build a stadium before winning titles.

Now you have a fancy stadium, but the team is lacking investment. Levy chose that consequence, and Spurs fans needs to wait for many years before they can challenge for anything.

 

[Paxi]

They didn't had the money to invest and still don't.

And I imagine the coronavirus will have fecked them up royally as well. No revenue coming into that stadium for the foreseeable.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

They also did really poorly in selling their assets at a good time. Poch's style relied on getting a lot of high intensity work out of fairly young players. By the time you're 26+ you really stop having all that stamina and rely more on judicious running that comes with experience. This is why he lost the dressing room this season as well I believe as the players just couldn't keep up the intensity Poch required of them. They should have been selling the likes of Eriksen and Vertonghen a few years ago when they still had significant value and then reinvested in young cheap players for Poch rather than try to milk the absolute maximum amount in transfer fee from them which eventually priced them out of moves - and hence left the squad stale.

 

[100]

Teams have a window for when they can challenge. The smaller the budget, the smaller the window usually is. It's almost impossible for a team like Spurs to compete with last years Liverpool/this years City. So they pretty much have to make a team and hope it coincides with the competition being poor.

People like to meme Spurs but underestimate how difficult it is for teams like them to actually compete.

 

[passing-wind]

Spurs need to reschedule their financial model and maybe adopt a strategy not too dissimilar to Dortmund's to remain competitive. They have had a good team but at points rather than selling all their assets at once should have capitalized on profiting from sales and reinvesting the proceeds back into the team. Examples Dier / Rose could have fetched upward of 80 million. At what point do they depart with Kane ? If the club isn't going anywhere they should be considering the best outlet to maximise funds. The stadium was also a dent to their ambition, like West Ham it looks good but what is benefit of it.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

They didn't had the money to invest and still don't.

Everyone know they didn't. But Spurs fans in here back then were told about this and they were deluded and thought it's part of their rebuilding process to the future success that they are building on, building their team around Eriksen, Kane, Alli and etc. Look at them now, hiding because they couldn't accept the reality. It was just a short term of good years for them.

 

[Karel Podolsky]

They didn't had the money to invest and still don't.

Better be organically growing forever trophy-less Spurs than the financial doping City with trophies...

 

[always_hoping]

They'd been playing rubbish for over a year already when Pochettino was sacked.

The CL final didn't really help them. People were still bleating on about it months after as if it was some massive achievement and ignoring the fact their league form and general performance levels had been nose diving for ages even before they reached the final...also ignoring the fact they lost the final after 1 minute which isn't really that amazing an achievement.

Getting rid of Pochettino wasn't really an error. He had long enough to turn it round and didn't. Getting Mourinho in was never exactly going to go well though.

The CL final appearance papered over their cracks. As you said Spurs league form under Poch was poor for a full year and were into double figures in defeats. The form of individual players was awful for a long time and it's up to the manager to get the best out of his players.

 

[AR87]

Spurs need to reschedule their financial model and maybe adopt a strategy not too dissimilar to Dortmund's to remain competitive. They have had a good team but at points rather than selling all their assets at once should have capitalized on profiting from sales and reinvesting the proceeds back into the team. Examples Dier / Rose could have fetched upward of 80 million. At what point do they depart with Kane ? If the club isn't going anywhere they should be considering the best outlet to maximise funds. The stadium was also a dent to their ambition, like West Ham it looks good but what is benefit of it.

This is exactly it. When you're limited in how much you can invest into the squad without selling, you need to be damn good at selling players at or near peak value. Levy's issue is he's absolutely ridiculous to negotiate with, sets unrealistic valuations for players, and holds on to them for far too long. Alderweireld, Dier, Vertonghen, Eriksen, and Rose, off the top of my head, are all players they completely messed up in moving on. This is why Poch said going back to even 2018 the squad needed a makeover, because thing were stale and there were players who were past their best.

They could have easily flogged off Alderweireld, Dier, and potentially even Rose to United for massive fees when Mourinho was here that then could have been used to bring in younger replacements and depth. Instead they didn't, and now the squad looks like it needs the exact rebuild Poch was saying it did, but in even more dire straits now, and they have even less money to throw at the problem due to the new stadium and covid.

 

[tenpoless]

Punished for sacking Poch and hired Jose

 

[roonster09]

There was a video that was posted few months back (Tifo football one) which summed up the situation nicely. Every club refreshed their squad except Spurs and they were left behind. Spurs were in really good position at one point.

Maybe they didn't have the money to invest.

 

[duffer]

With Chelsea and seemingly Man United looking to heavily invest, they're probably fecked in the next few seasons with regards to top 4

 

[Kush]

While I think Mourinho is finished at this level, their squad was in dire need of investment for couple of years now. They had a strong first XI for 3 years where they looked like a very good side but beyond that there wasn't much to them.

Spurs fans on here were chest-thumping about having zero net-spend and a super low wage bill in relation to their quality, and look how that turned out for them. Eriksen ran down his contract and left on cheap, Alderweireld has been kicking fuss about a pay-rise for 2-3 seasons, Danny Rose even before that in 2017 when he hinted about being underpaid. This excerpt is damning and it was only a matter of time before as Glaston would put it, chickens come home to roost.

"One thing is for sure — I know my worth and I will make sure I get what I am worth. I am not playing as well as I have done not to get paid what I think I am worth. In any walk of life, if you think you are worth a certain amount, why settle for less? I am not that person.

"If I get to levels I reached last season — and this goes out to everybody — I will make sure I get what I am worth. I don't know how much longer I might have at this level. I'm not going to be stupid enough not to try and get the most out of it — medals, trophies and salary.

"Anyone who thinks this is primarily for money, that is not the case. But I know what I am worth.

"As with everyone else in my team, in my opinion, I am worth more than I am getting. I am not speaking on behalf of other players, but that is my view."

If you want to act like big boys, then got to pay like one. If not, sell the players at the right price and re-invest that money into the squad. They did neither, and as a result they are in the mess they find themselves in now. To make matters worse, they couldn't have a worse type of manager for this sort of transition, how do you think he'll react when Chelsea, Utd, and City are making £70-80m signings this summer while they scrap for pennies to fund Hojberg from Southampton? Cue passive-aggressive comments about lack of funds, shit player quality next season as he'll work towards another inevitable sacking and a huge pay-off.

Couple of rough years lie ahead for Spurs fans. I would have some sympathy if they weren't gloating and in general being utter assbags on here, so feck em.

 

[Needham]

Punished for sacking Poch and hired Jose

Great insight

 

[Skeezix]

They didn't had the money to invest and still don't.

Even when they had the money, they wasted it on Duds. Levy is praised for his business acumen, but they are very bad at making signings too.
They bought 7 players they bought with the Bale money - Soldado, Chadli, Paulinho, Chadli, Eriksen, others? Only Eriksen turned out good.

 

[flappyjay]

They kept the same players for too long, they should have done what liverpool did and sell a few of their best players to reinvest in the team. Players like Dier, Rose and Toby could have gone for good money at one point. But they tried to be too smart about things.

Same with Erikson, should have sold him for big money when he still had 2 years left.

 

[Mindhunter]

They didn't had the money to invest and still don't.

Not true. They blew billions on their new shiny stadium.

What really happened was Levy wanted to ride the wave of popularity and good luck by investing in the long term future and the business side of the club instead of taking care of quick wins like improving the squad. He miscalculated what it takes to keep a team at the upper echelons of the PL and naively sacked a manager who did miracles with their squad.

Levy believed his own hype of being a shrewd negotiator and made deals detrimental to the club just to feed his public persona. He consistently refused to sell players who wanted out and deliberately tried to hold on to talent not through better opportunities and trophies but through long term deals. The bubble was going to burst eventually because for Levy's plan to succeed, they needed to execute flawlessly which rarely happens.

Now they are staring at a gloomy future having invested all their funds in the stadium which is now useless due to covid-19. Most of their players are either past their prime or want out. They have the most toxic manager in the league who is miking them for money.

 

[Feed Me]

You love to see it.

As an aside, Kane is on a downturn now, just like his club.

 

[Ace of Spades]

With Chelsea and seemingly Man United looking to heavily invest, they're probably fecked in the next few seasons with regards to top 4

Forget us, but even Leicester and Wolves are investing well. Arsenal look better placed to improve as they have a lot of young promising players that they can build on, and if the Newcastle takeover thing does happen then they will surely spend big.

Spurs are in a bit if trouble. They still have some very good players, but currently they don't look good and those same players may look to leave if things don't improve.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

at the top

 

[tenpoless]

Great insight

Thanks. Tossed it out for a tosser.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

I think Kane's injury really fecked them over. He was their talisman and got important goals regularly, and that was more than enough to make up for deficiencies in the squad as well as inspire teammates to do better.

Without him firing, the team and club looks jaded and the cracks have been glaringly obvious. It doesn't help that they have a manager who specialises in bringing the worst out of everyone at the first sign of trouble and that their competitors are looking to spend money while they used up everything on the stadium.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

They kept the same players for too long, they should have done what liverpool did and sell a few of their best players to reinvest in the team. Players like Dier, Rose and Toby could have gone for good money at one point. But they tried to be too smart about things.

This.

The squad needs freshen up. Past that point now and so they're down. That's it.

 

[jackal&hyde]

When they finished third in a two horse race.

Yes. The media has created this narrative of a successful Spurs team, but won nothing at all. They had a decent team with a few players at their peak and a decent manager that was a bit of a one trick pony with how he knew how to set up his team, came close a couple of times and that's it. "Crap" Man Utd won a lot more during this time then the "great" Spurs. Media over hype with their darling Kane and saint Poch.

 

[Carl]

Poch had them consistently over achieving. Was obvious then, and just as obvious now.

 

[JPRouve]

Not true. They blew billions on their new shiny stadium.

What really happened was Levy wanted to ride the wave of popularity and good luck by investing in the long term future and the business side of the club instead of taking care of quick wins like improving the squad. He miscalculated what it takes to keep a team at the upper echelons of the PL and naively sacked a manager who did miracles with their squad.

Levy believed his own hype of being a shrewd negotiator and made deals detrimental to the club just to feed his public persona. He consistently refused to sell players who wanted out and deliberately tried to hold on to talent not through better opportunities and trophies but through long term deals. The bubble was going to burst eventually because for Levy's plan to succeed, they needed to execute flawlessly which rarely happens.

Now they are staring at a gloomy future having invested all their funds in the stadium which is now useless due to covid-19. Most of their players are either past their prime or want out. They have the most toxic manager in the league who is miking them for money.

That premise is wrong, youj say that as if "their new shiny stadium was a recent project. They decided to invest in their infrastructure more than a decade ago and it's a good thing for the club long term, their "success" between 2015 and 2018 was a surprise and it happened during a period of time where their money was already tied to other spendings which means that they didn't had the money to invest in the playing staff and they still don't have the means to match teams that are currently successful anyway. Tottenham simply overachieved.

The entirety of your theory is based on the wrong timeframe, when the plans for the stadium were made and finished, Tottenham weren't "at the top".

 

[SambaBoy]

Their team has regressed massively. Lloris was probably just behind DDG a few years back, but now he's nowhere near the GK once was and this has been going on for longer than DDG's decline. Walker was sold, Trippier was a decent replacement but then suffered massively after the WC and Aurier was a poor replacement. Rose lost his motivation and he went from being the best LB in the Prem to being on loan at Newcastle. Alderweireld suffered with injuries and is no longer the same player, Sanchez is still making the same errors that he made when he joined, Vertonghen is still a good player but he's getting on a bit. Dier is meh, same with Davies, decent level players but not elite.

Dembele was a big loss, he was quality in the middle of the player for them. Haven't really replaced him properly. Sissoko has finally found some form, but again he's not elite. Eriksen downed tools and got his move. Ndombele will turn out good but for now he's a liability. Lamela is average, as is Moura. Son is a very good player but he's not in the top 10 in the PL for me. Kane is getting injured more and more. Alli form has declined massively, he looked a future star but looks well of it in the past year or so. Lo Celso looks good and Bergwijn but they need more investment in their team.

 

[Eire Red United]

Maybe they could have fleeced someone for Kane and invested that in 3 quality players, also should have sold Eriksen a lot earlier than they did.

They could have got at least £100m for Kane a couple of years back, could have been similar to Liverpool selling Coutinho if they’d bought smart.

 

[Chairman Steve]

A couple of things have lead them to the situation they’re in. Primarily they didn’t invest much to Pochettino’s dismay which probably accelerated his decision to stop giving a feck and eventually leaving.

Other stuff like their over-reliance on Kane for everything. Him getting injured for a significant period really shows how average they can be and the fact he’s been playing almost every game for Spurs when he’s been fit doesn’t bode well for the future when risk of further injury and burnout increases.

Appointing Jose seems like a bad move especially after his Utd stint. His stint here shows that a tiger can never change his stripes and I thought he’d be done with club management after us.

 

[FootyGirl88]

There was a video that was posted few months back (Tifo football one) which summed up the situation nicely. Every club refreshed their squad except Spurs and they were left behind. Spurs were in really good position at one point.

Maybe they didn't have the money to invest.

 

[sun_tzu]

They have invested... just badly or at least badly so far
Ndombele has been a disappointment but he wouldn't be the first midfielder to take a season to adapt to the pl and come back better next season
Lo celso is technically a really good player im just not sure he fits their system though i think loosing Erickson whilst ali has had a huge dip in form with ndombele not being an instant hit has stifled that midfield massively.
Son has been excellent but they really need one of sessessong or Bergwjin to kick on and cement a place in the team as moura and lamella have always been inconsistent
They could do with a new long term partner for sanchez at the back and I wonder if it might be dier.

When spurs were at their best they often had
Dier as a holding player and he's now mostly seen as a defender with Jose
Dembele who was always going to be hard to replace but in ndombele they have a string and technical player who if he adaps might do that
Ali who is a shadow of his former self
Ericsson was their creative outlet and he's gone and lo celso isn't creative enough to replace the attacks Ericsson used to do
I think Jose will do OK there if given time and a couple of the recent signings improve

 

[roonster09]

Yeah this is the one. Thanks