Squad depth is king

[devilish]

That's unfair to use Bruno since he's basically playing in Rooney's role so I doubt it. I would rather have Carrick & 39 years old Giggs. Carrick was class and better than any of those in that season and Giggs is more technical than any of those midfielder apart from Pogba. Everyone will take Valencia & Young over James & Mata. 12/13 has better squad depth.

If Ole has Pereira starting XI, do you think he will sub him off for Mata? Yes! He did it in his 19/20 season. Until he has Bruno who offers different level then there is no reason for Ole to sub him off for someone who is par below the quality. You see where the pattern here?

Did Sir Alex subbed off Carrick who was class in that season? No. None offers the same quality to replace him from the bench. The same none of our bench yesterday could replace the others in our XI. But when you see Greenwood on the bench for example vs Spurs, did Ole brought him on from the bench for Rashford? Yes. Why because Greenwood can replace his quality. Did you see Sir Alex brought on Nani for Young? Yes. Why because Nani can replace his quality.

You keep using O'Shea & Phil Neville but Ole used Axel and Matic/McT to defend a lead as well.

Its not unfair at all. Bruno is a midfielder not a striker. Secondly an ancient Scholes/Giggs + an ageing Carrick weren't great at all. We squeezed the last drop of talent through properly coaching and customised tactics built around them. The same happened with Cleverley who was useful with us but became tripe the moment he left United. We currently have a midfield that last year Sir Alex would only dream of having. VDB, Bruno, Pogba, McT, Fred are far better then a nearly 40 year old Giggs/Scholes and fecking Cleverley.

I am an Ole out lite. I think he's a magnificent man manager which is necessary in modern management. However he also have his set of glaring flaws specifically in terms of coaching and tactics. He also made the big mistake of surrounding himself with mates which is bad enough for experienced managers let alone one whose on the job training. The guy desperately needs someone who can help him in tactics. Who knows maybe we won't look as silly as we're doing now when defending from a set piece. I do agree that the manager needs to be properly backed. However if he's expecting United to go on buying all the expensive toys there are on the market then he's at the wrong club. TBF the very few clubs that can do that won't give Ole a job either.

The ball is really in his court at this point. Will he surround himself with experienced people who can help him in areas he clearly lack? Or will he keep on insisting on the likes of Carrick and the guys he brought from Cardiff instead? Its up to him

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Its not unfair at all. Bruno is a midfielder not a striker. Secondly an ancient Scholes/Giggs + an ageing Carrick weren't great at all. We squeezed the last drop of talent through properly coaching and customised tactics built around them. The same happened with Cleverley who was useful with us but became tripe the moment he left United.

I am an Ole out lite. I think he's a magnificent man manager which is necessary in modern management. However he also have his set of glaring flaws specifically in terms of coaching and tactics. He also made the big mistake of surrounding himself with mates which is bad enough for experienced managers let alone one whose on the job training. The guy desperately needs someone who can help him in tactics. Who knows maybe we won't look as silly as we're doing now when defending from a set piece. I do agree that the manager needs to be properly backed. However if he's expecting United to go on buying all the expensive toys there are on the market then he's at the wrong club. TBF the very few clubs that can do that won't give Ole a job either.

If Nani and Valencia were starting, we had Giggs & Young on the bench. If Greenwood & Rashford are starting, we have James & Mata on the bench. Giggs & Young can replace Nani & Valencia quality but how can you expect James & Mata to replace Greenwood and Rashford quality. I just don't understand the inconsistency in your argument because what you are talking about is supposed to be our squad depth or the bench option and yet you are including the starting XI players like Bruno and etc in the argument. That 12/13 squad depth is just miles better than what we have right now thus why we are heavily reliant on our XI not the bench, while the 12/13 can rely on the bench. Give him the same Giggs or Young on the bench yesterday, he would make the sub. They were just way better than what we had yesterday.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Sir Alex would better utilise his squad and made it work as he did with the likes of Butt, Cleverley, Phil Neville, Young and co who were hardly world class. He won the league with an anciet Scholes, and Giggs in midfield boosted by the ageing Carrick + the likes of Cleverley. I am pretty sure that he would have preferred the likes of Pogba, Bruno, VDB, Matic, Fred and McT instead.

What we might both agree is that He'll certainly wouldn't run his first team players to the ground as Ole is doing. Also I don't think that squad depth is really necessary to beat Villareal who lags behind us on everything rather then maybe management and coaching.

I think the main distinction here is that the players you mention, were judged by SAF to be in the team because they had something about them, be that talent or very good drive to fight. They are in the category of the ones I mentioned. The ones that bloat our squad and wage bill are remnants of the past that are either not good enough or past it or injured all the time or came for the wrong reasons and want to leave (Lukaku, Sanchez, etc). The correct comparison is the squad SAF inherited when he first came and took him about 3 years to correct it. Same for Klopp.

You don't fix a squad that has been terribly assembled for 5-7 years in a summer or two no matter who the manager is. If anything, I think we are doing a phenomenal job at fixing it while also getting respectable results.

 

[The Kag]

The Amad issue is looking very hollow. He’s a kid who’s bought for the future. Putting so much faith in him to have come in and made a difference is absurd.

You know what's absurd? Persisting with a player that's operating at around 20% in terms of form and fitness for 120 minutes. Not going for the jugular after our tails were up from scoring the equalizer. Refusing to shake up the side with changes even though we finished the match with 60% possession against a team that had one shot on target and was parking the bus. Prioritizing the shootout while utilizing a keeper that's statistically very poor at saving penalties. Electing not to use Henderson (we still had one sub remaining) even though he has a much higher penalty save percentage in recent years than De Gea. That's absurd.

Amad is young and inexperienced, that can't be denied. He's far from the finished article. It also can't be denied that he's a technically gifted player and has had some decent showings in recent weeks. It's also irrefutable that Rashford was absolutely abysmal, so this notion that bringing on players like Amad, VDB, or even pushing Pogba to the wing is so outlandish that it doesn't even warrant discussion is just crazy to me. More to the point, acting like it would have been extremely dentrimental or far worse than allowing Rashford to continue to languish for 120 minutes is also something I find baffling. It's not as if we were struggling for possession either, we had a lot of the ball. Meaning a technical player with fresh legs like Amad would have plenty of opportunities to test their defense.

Honestly, it feels like people are looking at this from an ideal standpoint. By that I mean, comparing a fully fit, top form Rashford to the bench. Obviously Rashford is the superior player, but you have to take into account the here and the now. Not the theoretical. People will claim it's a gamble, but isn't relying on a player that's clearly struggling both physically and form wise to conjure up a bit of magic also a gamble? I'd say so. Not that he hasn't done it in the past, but it's still a gamble. Speaking of Rashford, was he "ready" when he burst onto the scene? On paper, absolutely not. He had played what, eight matches in the U23s? Going by those standards, most of this forum would scoff at the idea of using him as an option off the bench.

 

[jackal&hyde]

You know what's absurd? Persisting with a player that's operating at around 20% in terms of form and fitness for 120 minutes. Not going for the jugular after our tails were up from scoring the equalizer. Refusing to shake up the side with changes even though we finished the match with 60% possession against a team that had one shot on target and was parking the bus. Prioritizing the shootout while utilizing a keeper that's statistically very poor at saving penalties. Electing not to use Henderson (we still had one sub remaining) even though he has a much higher penalty save percentage in recent years than De Gea. That's absurd.

Amad is young and inexperienced, that can't be denied. He's far from the finished article. It also can't be denied that he's a technically gifted player and has had some decent showings in recent weeks. It's also irrefutable that Rashford was absolutely abysmal, so this notion that bringing on players like Amad, VDB, or even pushing Pogba to the wing is so outlandish that it doesn't even warrant discussion is just crazy to me. More to the point, acting like it would have been extremely dentrimental or far worse than allowing Rashford to continue to languish for 120 minutes is also something I find baffling. It's not as if we were struggling for possession either, we had a lot of the ball. Meaning a technical player with fresh legs like Amad would have plenty of opportunities to test their defense.

Honestly, it feels like people are looking at this from an ideal standpoint. By that I mean, comparing a fully fit, top form Rashford to the bench. Obviously Rashford is the superior player, but you have to take into account the here and the now. Not the theoretical. People will claim it's a gamble, but isn't relying on a player that's clearly struggling both physically and form wise to conjure up a bit of magic also a gamble? I'd say so. Not that he hasn't done it in the past, but it's still a gamble. Speaking of Rashford, was he "ready" when he burst onto the scene? On paper, absolutely not. He had played what, eight matches in the U23s? Going by those standards, most of this forum would scoff at the idea of using him as an option off the bench.

It was and it failed. It worked in other games though and that is why we did it. There was precedent of Rashford being poor but still coming up with the goods. It didn't work this time so hindsight is 20 20. If Amad was one year older with experience, like next season, this change is made 100% imo.

Speaking of young players, they are not all the same in terms or their maturity. Greenwood was thrown in at difficult times no problem, similar with Williams. The vast majority of kids though are just that, kids that would crumble under the pressure and you can do more harm then good throwing them in the spotlight before their confidence is built.

Again, this is real World football with real people, not FM or FIFA.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

It was and it failed. It worked in other games though and that is why we did it. There was precedent of Rashford being poor but still coming up with the goods. It didn't work this time so hindsight is 20 20. If Amad was one year older with experience, like next season, this change is made 100% imo.

Speaking of young players, they are not all the same in terms or their maturity. Greenwood was thrown in at difficult times no problem, similar with Williams. The vast majority of kids though are just that, kids that would crumble under the pressure and you can do more harm then good throwing them in the spotlight before their confidence is built.

Again, this is real World football with real people, not FM or FIFA.

Agree 100%

 

[Lee565]

What a novel idea, squad depth! That isn't on Ole, that is on Jose, VanGaal and Moyes. They've spent a small fortune on shit players who aren't good enough to play at United and Ole has been stuck with the task of either trying to move them on or getting the best out of them.

Like he said we are two to three players short from improving the starting XI and making the squad depth greater. Unfortunately we don't have the backing of a small oil rich country or a russian criminal so it'll take a bit more time to revamp the squad. Liverpool will be in the same spot a year or two from now.



Liverpools squad depth may not be better than ours and you're probably right however their starting XI is better than ours especially in the front 3 who do most of their scoring. That is why they won the CL not the depth of their squad.

Really, so it wasn't origi that played a big part in pool knocking out barcalona on their way to winning the European cup, if ole had origi he would probably not even use him in the full 120 mins and fans would be moaning about the lack of squad depth, just look at their defensive pairing in the second half of the season as well and yet they were able to finish 3rd and not too far of us, i can't imagine where we would be if ole lost both his first choice centre backs for almost the entire season.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Really, so it wasn't origi that played a big part in pool knocking out barcalona on their way to winning the European cup, if ole had origi he would probably not even use him in the full 120 mins and fans would be moaning about the lack of squad depth, just look at their defensive pairing in the second half of the season as well and yet they were able to finish 3rd and not too far of us, i can't imagine where we would be if ole lost both his first choice centre backs for almost the entire season.

You are creating imaginary situations and imaginary decisions based on those situations to apply critique. That is a text book example of straw man; something very prevalent in the hard core critiques of the manager. It's nonsensical for obvious reasons and makes debates impossible.

 

[Stacks]

You must know that losing a couple of one off games doesn’t define a standard. We finished above Leicester and much higher up a much tougher league than Villarreal.


Our squad cost a lot but at the highest level, the quality below the first 11 is questionable. It will see us finish above Leicester but that’s not the limit of our ambition is it?

Winning trophies do though. Its what define managers. No one looks back at the greats and say "he finished 2nd on eight different occasions" its all about your trophy haul. Same with club stature. Our league campaign was mixed but generally good. Looked like mounting a challenge but shat the bed winning 3/10 games in a relatively kind fixture list at turn of the year. I didn't expect a challenge as much as buster Douglas didn't expect to beat Tyson but if your opponent gives an opening and is staggered, you shouldnt retire on your stool due to lack of belief. There is something mentally wrong with our current set up

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Are you ok (Hyde or Jackal)?

The man could have Thierry Henry on the bench and he wouldn’t put him on until extra time.

He has made subs before extra time before though so how does that stack up with your genius point

 

[Stacks]

The Amad issue is looking very hollow. He’s a kid who’s bought for the future. Putting so much faith in him to have come in and made a difference is absurd.

Then why have him on the bench after dropping 30m? They started and 18 year old who made his first ever Europa start all season vs Arsenal in the 2nd leg. We bought 2 players for 70milliln and leave them on the bench to gather dust. You can't be shook as a coach. Show some courage. Bring Matic on, push Pogba forward. We had more options than they did but coach froze up. All players were run into the ground.

 

[Mainoldo]

He has made subs before extra time before though so how does that stack up with your genius point

Great stuff. He’s made subs in the past. What a guy. Did what is 2% of managers criteria. Make subs.

 

[bsCallout]

The truth is, whether people like to admit it or not, chances are you won't win silverware trying to compete in all cups.

Leicester won the Fa Cup(the fell out of top 4 & Europa to do so).

Liverpool won the CL then Prem and gave up on the Fa Cup and League cup in both seasons. When they won the prem they dropped out of CL in the round of 16.
CL runners up, got 4th, out early in domestic cups

Conte won the league this year, to do so he was bottom of the CL group and had no further European football.

When Mourinho won the Europa, we finished 6th.

When LVG won the FA cup we came 5th.

When Arsenal won the Fa cup they finished 8th.

Chelsea last won the FA cup and finished 5th, getting knocked out of CL in the last 16.

RM 17/18 won CL, 3rd in 3 horse race, quarters in the domestic cup.

It's very rare that a team does well across the board, or even in just two comps. Our biggest issue might be that we are actually putting our eggs into too many baskets.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Then why have him on the bench after dropping 30m? They started and 18 year old who made his first ever Europa start all season vs Arsenal in the 2nd leg. We bought 2 players for 70milliln and leave them on the bench to gather dust. You can't be shook as a coach. Show some courage. Bring Matic on, push Pogba forward. We had more options than they did but coach froze up. All players were run into the ground.

Fairly certain it was more like 15 and the rest is in potential addons. We paid for potential and I think you know that. Madrid spend a tone on youth that don't play yet.

 

[jackal&hyde]

The truth is, whether people like to admit it or not, chances are you won't win silverware trying to compete in all cups.

Leicester won the Fa Cup(the fell out of top 4 & Europa to do so).

Liverpool won the CL then Prem and gave up on the Fa Cup and League cup in both seasons. When they won the prem they dropped out of CL in the round of 16.
CL runners up, got 4th, out early in domestic cups

Conte won the league this year, to do so he was bottom of the CL group and had no further European football.

When Mourinho won the Europa, we finished 6th.

When LVG won the FA cup we came 5th.

When Arsenal won the Fa cup they finished 8th.

Chelsea last won the FA cup and finished 5th, getting knocked out of CL in the last 16.

RM 17/18 won CL, 3rd in 3 horse race, quarters in the domestic cup.

It's very rare that a team does well across the board, or even in just two comps. Our biggest issue might be that we are actually putting our eggs into too many baskets.

And I think that goes to show how strong Citys squad is that they can do that. Leicester and Arsenal have no chance IMO but us and Chelsea could; with a combination of top players and top youth talent plus determined hard workers.

 

[Lay]

We do need squad depth, we need a quality bench like City do. The blame lies with Ole for not using the subs bench but we had a pretty average bunch from choose from which is something Ole should have addressed by now. We had the same issue last year.

 

[jackal&hyde]

We do need squad depth, we need a quality bench like City do. The blame lies with Ole for not using the subs bench but we had a pretty average bunch from choose from which is something Ole should have addressed by now. We had the same issue last year.

You really think Ole is the reason we didn't make more signings?

 

[Lee565]

Ole signed james and van der beek, why is this not his fault for obviously failing to recruit better?

 

[jackal&hyde]

Ole signed james and van der beek, why is this not his fault for obviously failing to recruit better?

DVB will be ok imo but no manager has 100% success. Do you know how many full backs Pep has signed?

 

[Renegade]

Yes the bench could be stronger but you still use what you have. You’ll see Rodgers bring on Albrighton and Perez on to change and freshen up a game regardless of if they’re better than the 11. The simple fact is Ole was scared of making a change.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Yes the bench could be stronger but you still use what you have. You’ll see Rodgers bring on Albrighton and Perez on to change and freshen up a game regardless of if they’re better than the 11. The simple fact is Ole was scared of making a change.

And he bottled top 4 for two season in a row.

 

[stw2022]

Yes the bench could be stronger but you still use what you have. You’ll see Rodgers bring on Albrighton and Perez on to change and freshen up a game regardless of if they’re better than the 11. The simple fact is Ole was scared of making a change.

Bingo. It’s not just Wednesday either. He has an aversion to interference in a match. Our tactics, our shape rarely changes at all. We will end the match how was we started it whether it’s gone well or badly.

I also think his subs are planned in advance and not in reaction to the game. I cannot recall the last time a player has had a bad game and been taken off.

 

[Lee565]

DVB will be ok imo but no manager has 100% success. Do you know how many full backs Pep has signed?

But we wasn't facing man city, we facing Villarreal and they brought on the championship level coquelin against us with no issues, and besides man city are pretty much the exception with their dodgy dealings and oil money. Ole had the chance to change the team tactically of or formation wise but decided just to do nothing but cross his fingers and hope that a moment of individual inspiration would once again cover over the cracks.

 

[Bestofthebest]

If Emery is such a great manager/tactician why did he get the boot from Arsenal. What he is good at is organising teams in a defensive manner, common for Spanish teams. How many clear chances did they create against us? The answer is not as many as we normally let teams against us have. We are always weak at set pieces and that’s where we conceded. I still think there are very few managers out there that could have done any better with the squad at their disposal, however they managed the game. If we do not strengthen this squad we are in for many more let downs. This season we have over-performed and I don’t see us repeating this again next season.

 

[jackal&hyde]

But we wasn't facing man city, we facing Villarreal and they brought on the championship level coquelin against us with no issues, and besides man city are pretty much the exception with their dodgy dealings and oil money. Ole had the chance to change the team tactically of or formation wise but decided just to do nothing but cross his fingers and hope that a moment of individual inspiration would once again cover over the cracks.

What would you have done? Keep in mind that Rashford has been very poor in other games but then came up with the winner and this was his failed gamble imo.

Also, the thread is not about that one game but I'm starting to give up on it as that seems to be all everyone can think about. We lost a final after 21 pens, a final that many said they don't even care about (it was seen as a way to get in to the CL last season and little else), and somehow this should define the season; forget about second in the league when few gave us a hope for top 4 even. I guess taking a team from 6th to 3ed and 3 semifinals to second and a final is a description of a crap manager.

 

[anant]

Do people realise here that our subs have the most G+A in PL this season? So, people really need to stop going, Ole doesnt know when to make subs, his subs are passive, yada yada.

Sure, he should've subbed Rashford, but considering Rashy is more of a moments player (as in he rarely has a perfect game but has 3-4 moments in the game where he is the combination of Messi and CR7) I can understand why he was kept on

 

[Stacks]

But we wasn't facing man city, we facing Villarreal and they brought on the championship level coquelin against us with no issues, and besides man city are pretty much the exception with their dodgy dealings and oil money. Ole had the chance to change the team tactically of or formation wise but decided just to do nothing but cross his fingers and hope that a moment of individual inspiration would once again cover over the cracks.

There is no point discussing. His defenders will claim his hands are tied and not be able to reflect on our direct opposition. We need Man City squad to win this competition. Jose won this with a worse team and his main striker injured (basically won this on one leg). Ole either gets extreme attackers who give him Zero credit or extreme defenders who see no wrong

 

[MU655]

He didn't trust his squad enough - Look at the average minutes of Ferguson's seasons per player compared to this season in the Premier League:

Average minutes of first 10 (excluding goalkeepers): 2,793 (20/21)

Ferguson
Average minutes of first 10 (excluding goalkeepers):
- 2,287 (2009/10)
- 2,221 (2010/11)
- 2,102 (2011/12)
- 2,308 (2012/13)

Even off the highest of those Ferguson seasons, the average playing time in Solskjaer's team for the ten highest outfield players is 485 minutes more (5.4 more games).

Number of outfield players over 1,000 minutes in the Premier League
- 13 (2020/21)

- 15 (2009/10)
- 17 (2010/11) - Title Winner
- 14 (2011/12)
- 16 (2012/13) - Title Winner

Now, people are going to say we had much better players. Is O'Shea, Welbeck, and Cleverley really that much better than what we have now on the bench? No, they were average. You can see Ferguson tried to give as many players as possible minutes because he understood they needed game time. Even average players have a use as all of those had over 1,000 minutes in at least one season (O'Shea had quite a few).

That lack of trust in squad probably cost us dearly through injuries, lack of match fitness, and stopping players acclimatising to the squad.

 

[Lee565]

There is no point discussing. His defenders will claim his hands are tied and not be able to reflect on our direct opposition. We need Man City squad to win this competition. Jose won this with a worse team and his main striker injured (basically won this on one leg). Ole either gets extreme attackers who give him Zero credit or extreme defenders who see no wrong

He has done relatively well in many ways but at some point we have to start being a real force again and that isn't going to happen under ole, I do get annoyed that he keeps bleeping on about the united away etc.. but it's all talk with him, do you think had fergie been in charge of the Villarreal match with the score at 1-1 and had elenga on the bench that he wouldn't have thrown him on in the last 5 minutes with the kid buzzing from scoring in the previous match or going all out in attack and playing 424

 

[He'sRaldo]

If we're saying that Ole needs superstars on the bench to impact the game vs Villareal, I don't think anyone can complain anymore when people say he relies on individual brilliance.

 

[Rilz]

Everyone talking about our squad being enough to beat Villareal are missing the point.

It's been obvious the entire first team has been gassed for weeks now, when is the last good game of football we played? All our key players have been run into the ground, Bruno has been out of form since January.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

I actually think we have certainly improved squad depth from last season with the signings of Amad, Cavani, Telles and VDB. However, the usage of these players have been nothing short of criminal (except Cavani). The way we have run Maguire, Bruno and Rashford to the ground has been close to player abuse.

Its highly fortunate that we didn't have any injuries to Bruno and Maguire with the amount of football they played, whereas Rashford was played despite being injured, instead of either using other options (Amad, Pogba to the left and VDB in the middle) and substituting him, we kept him on played him despite him being shite. Whose to say that next season despite having Sancho and Martial on the bench, Ole would be soo blinded by his love for Rashford that he will give them 5 mins at the end of game (aka VDB treatment).

 

[Stacks]

Everyone talking about our squad being enough to beat Villareal are missing the point.

It's been obvious the entire first team has been gassed for weeks now, when is the last good game of football we played? All our key players have been run into the ground, Bruno has been out of form since January.

Didn't we rest players at the end of the season because we were safe?

 

[The Kag]

Again, this is real World football with real people, not FM or FIFA.

I've heard it all now. Hoping your manager can positively impact a match by utilizing his bench and making tactical changes when players are underperforming is tantamount to comparing real-life football to FM and FIFA? The aforementioned concepts are so outlandish to you that it warrants a snarky remark about unrealistic expectations? Man, all of those real-life managers in the past and present doing those crazy things like making substitutions and adjusting their tactics based on readily available information, match form, and statistics are all just a bunch of arm-chair FM fanatics! The feck am I even reading.

The difference is that some managers are better at making these adjustments than others. That's what's separates them.

 

[OrcaFat]

Winning trophies do though. Its what define managers. No one looks back at the greats and say "he finished 2nd on eight different occasions" its all about your trophy haul. Same with club stature. Our league campaign was mixed but generally good. Looked like mounting a challenge but shat the bed winning 3/10 games in a relatively kind fixture list at turn of the year. I didn't expect a challenge as much as buster Douglas didn't expect to beat Tyson but if your opponent gives an opening and is staggered, you shouldnt retire on your stool due to lack of belief. There is something mentally wrong with our current set up

I don’t think so.

We don’t have quite enough good players to keep ourselves fresh without dropping the quality just a shade too much.

There’s no point looking for convoluted explanations.

 

[Bilbo]

It must be great complaining all the time about things like substitutions or starting line-ups.

"I'd have started with player X in a 433" says the bloke in the pub. "I definitely would have bought on so and so at half time" says his mate next to him. Both of them naturally smug as feck, absolutely convinced that their suggestion would have changed the outcome because they get it, and best of all can't ever be proven wrong.

It speaks volumes about the quality of posting here these days. The irony that substitutions or 'in game management' is the biggest stick used to beat a manager whose team have the most goals and assists from substitutes, not to mention breaking the record for most points from losing positions, is completely lost on the majority of the forum.

 

[Counterfactual]

"Winning" is King. Everything else is fancy-pants bollocks.

 

[cyril C]

Squad depth is a double edge sword. Mourinho stated that best team in England was CityA, and 2nd best team was CityB. It takes a special manager to manage 20 top players and keeping them happy, which I doubt. Ask Sterling if he is still happy bench warming next season. So while it is nice to have 2 good players for every position, it never last long.

On the other hand, both Liverpool and MU have demonstrated that if you keep on playing the same 13 players 50 games a season, while bother with a large and expensive squad.

I would say the key driver must be coming from the manager himself. If he doesn't like to use his squad player, never bother to rotate just to keep everyone fresh and "warmed", why bother.

IMO, the most optimal size is 16-18 field players that can fit in anytime without significant drop in performance. OK no-one can easily replace Kane or Bruno, but the rest of the squad should be able to grind out result.

 

[OrcaFat]

It must be great complaining all the time about things like substitutions or starting line-ups.

"I'd have started with player X in a 433" says the bloke in the pub. "I definitely would have bought on so and so at half time" says his mate next to him. Both of them naturally smug as feck, absolutely convinced that their suggestion would have changed the outcome because they get it, and best of all can't ever be proven wrong.

It speaks volumes about the quality of posting here these days. The irony that substitutions or 'in game management' is the biggest stick used to beat a manager whose team have the most goals and assists from substitutes, not to mention breaking the record for most points from losing positions, is completely lost on the majority of the forum.

Great post, Bilbo. Couldn’t agree more.

 

[jackal&hyde]

I've heard it all now. Hoping your manager can positively impact a match by utilizing his bench and making tactical changes when players are underperforming is tantamount to comparing real-life football to FM and FIFA? The aforementioned concepts are so outlandish to you that it warrants a snarky remark about unrealistic expectations? Man, all of those real-life managers in the past and present doing those crazy things like making substitutions and adjusting their tactics based on readily available information, match form, and statistics are all just a bunch of arm-chair FM fanatics! The feck am I even reading.

The difference is that some managers are better at making these adjustments than others. That's what's separates them.

If when you alt tabbed your current save of FM while you are posting in this thread and paid any attention you would have seen that this discussion is not about that one game. There were questionable decisions made and 100 threads dedicated to debating that.

The only element from the final that is addressed by this topic is how slow we looked in build up and a lack of sharpness in decision making in the final 3ed.