Give Ole the same quality player as himself, he would bring that player on.
He has proved himself he brought on Greenwood to change the game by replacing Rashford vs spurs. Or bring on Martial when he was on the bench.
Give Ole the same quality player as himself, he would bring that player on.
He has proved himself he brought on Greenwood to change the game by replacing Rashford vs spurs. Or bring on Martial when he was on the bench.
Coaching is king.
You have to ask why Diallo wasn't given more opportunities to integrate; there were times that were perfect to do so, but he insisted on playing the first team even when it wasn't needed. The same thing has happened with De Beek, where Solskjaer has barely given him any game time to acclimatise or reach match-fit levels. It really does hinder our depth. Substitutes still need games to be able to have an impact when they are called upon. They can't just come in after barely playing and be expected to give a good performance.
In the end, I think it was poor preparation from Solskjaer. He could have afforded Diallo and De Beek more opportunities, and we may have had more depth to call upon.
You don’t need to have Grealish/Sancho on the bench if he starts one of them and bench a teenager like Greenwood. Again, that’s a quality option he has proven himself that he can bring him on to change the game.
SAF had good bench options. If he doesn’t trust Pogba, what makes you think he will trust Amad in yesterday game when the score was still 1-1?
Someone was saying something similar to me in the maguire thread a few weeks ago and lo and behind he goes and gets injured and the lads below him haven’t played together all season. Just because a good player is always semi fit you don’t have to run him to death for 180 minutes every single week. It’s criminal misuse of the second 11 in the squad especially making expensive signings and not trusting them. It also sends a poor message to the squad lads. Not enough confidence in you. Oh shit sorry actually we need you now to save our season. Basic psychology and man management. If they aren’t good enough to rotate regularly then stop signing them, sell them or loan them till they are. If I was behind Rashford this season for example I’d be wondering what the hell he needs to do to get dropped for a few games so I could have a crack at it. It’s a crazy setup.
No he wouldn’t. Ole would be a sub with our current strikers and no way would he sub himself on to take off Rashford, Cavani or even Greenwood. He wouldn’t risk it.
No cajones.
Fergie once threw a unknown Macheda in the dying minutes of a must win title decider. Imagine if his thought process was “I have no quality on the bench”. Emery used his squad and bench to his advantage and now has another Europa League title to his name.
The squad argument is nonsense when we have the best squad in the competition. For the CL or league title? Yes. For the Europa League this should have been enough. Most of our bench players would all have played for them yesterday, from the start or the bench.
We paid 30m for Van de Beek, and 40m for Amad. Hoe can they not play? Even Matic or Mata would have been useful with that slow tempo in the ET.
We paid 30m for Van de Beek, and 40m for Amad. Hoe can they not play? Even Matic or Mata would have been useful with that slow tempo in the ET.
He subbed off Rashford for 19 years old Greenwood to change the game before so why wouldn’t he?
He choked plain and simple but he’s been laying the foundations for this particular shitshow all season with Rashford Bruno AWB and Maguire absolutely run into the ground when there was no reason for it. If we don’t have a like for like player then change the system or formation. Get creative. Involve the squad. Still raging today at how it went down. Playing for extra time and penalties against an average team is certainly a low point in my lifetime. If we went for it and they knicked the winning goal? Cool, it happens. Last night was just a hopeless culmination of all of his mistakes this season
You have to look at how Ole doesn’t rush things to integrate young players. Look at what he did to Greenwood last season. Was he being thrown away to starting XI? No, he was slowly getting his minutes only came on as sub for 2-5 minutes and slowly getting more minutes and end up as our regular player. Amad only been here for less than Greenwood had, Greenwood been training with Ole since 2018. I had my explanation about VDB’s style doesn’t suit our style at the moment.
He only had one cup final. Coming into conclusion based on one cup final because there is no quality on the bench doesn’t make a justification or fair assessment for what you said.
The guy has scored 6 goals in 2 seasons he's crap.
Sounds like James’s stats.
i can't get over this. We could have made 6 subs in ET and won this with a near fresh squad squeezing out a goal in 30 minutes. Amad, James, Matic, Fred, Mata, VDB, Telles, you telling me we couldn't replace 6 guys running on empty with 6 fresh legs playing against EPL castoffs and La Liga has beens.
But Amad didn't even get that. He didn't play in the Premier League until second was secured, and I think it is because Solskjaer was a bit scared to give other players opportunities. I think that cost us in the end as he didn't trust any of the bench players for the Europa League final. Why would he? He didn't even trust them enough to play them in games when the first team (or the full first team) wasn't needed.
It took a month to give Greenwood his first start in the Premier League from his first appearance in the league. First appearance in the Premier League was 8th November 2019; first start was the 4th December 2019.
What was Amad's reward for scoring against AC Milan? Nothing. He proceeded to see 6 minutes against Leicester where we were losing 3:1 and were crashing out of the FA Cup, and he got 8 minutes against Granada. That is all the game time he saw until second was secured. That for me backs up that Solskjaer was afraid to change things, and didn't give our subs enough chances to show what they are capable of.
I agree with that.
For as good of a manager Klopp is, let us not forget he has a grand total of one league in 6 (six) years.
For the life of me I don't understand when the basics of football like first 11 quality and squad depth have been forgotten and their place taken by patterns of play and pressing. It's like the modern football journalist is some FM obsessed kid that hasn't fallowed a club or football in general in his life. Calling managers that are yet to win a league WC calling others super promising before they even managed an under 18. It's just bizarro World for the last 3 or 4 years
Yeah I reckon Football Manager and Fifa definitely have played a role in 'gamifying' the experience of football and making your average fan or journo see the sport in a more surgical and tactical way.
Then there's the media's love of buying in to the cult of personality of a particular manager as attributing success to individual genius makes a better story than 'team A win another league because they have the best players'.
I think it's also of particular appeal to United fans because it's far easier (and therefore comforting) to imagine all of our problems being solved by replacing the manager rather than them being the result of the type of systemic and structural failure that is difficult if not impossible to rectify, at least whilst the Glazers are in charge.
No it's not. There's no huge improvement, there's a marginal one. 8 points more than last year.
We have no pattern of play, just pass to Bruno/Pogba and hope for something. We haven't got the tiniest clue on what to do with low blocks. We can't stop conceding from set pieces. We are not using our full squad well enough and our manager never makes subs so much we've started taking the piss with threads like "Make a fecking sub Ole". All pretty obvious problems from where I'm standing that we're not well coached.
None of that means jack shit. Sorry. Age and experience don't play football. By your reasoning Shaqiri must be better than Mbappe.
When Mane was playing like Rashford was yesterday he was getting subbed. For Shaqiri or Origi or Ings or for anyone. The criterion isn't the age of the sub, it's how good he is and how well the main player is playing. When Mane was playing shit he was getting subbed. In 19/20 Mane was on fire so he didn't need to get subbed too much. Not the case for Rashford.
Imagine comparing a team that has 19 years old with a team that has 28 years old and expecting both will have the same development.
We have one 19yo in the line up. You're acting like it's something crazy. Liverpool had a 20yo TAA in the CL final, no big deal. And I never compared Greenwood to Mane, you're the one doing that. Like you're the one comparing Dan James to Shaqiri and claiming Shaqiri is better against reason just cause he's older. I just pointed out how nonsensical your comparison is and not backed up by anything.
Your arguments are not making any sense. Know when to stop.
Greenwood has trained with Ole since 2018 and only been used in 2019. Amad has only trained with us since January 2020. Train with the first team first, get used to play with the men and understand his team mate, and etc. Ole has his process to integrate the kid.
He did it with Greenwood, and remember people used to moan about Ole not giving Greenwood a chance last season despite of him scoring goals for us and look at him now.
Amad played around 260 minutes for us so far. That’s already way more minutes than what Atalanta gave him.
Barcelona striker Messi cost Nothing
I'm not trying to suit my argument. I though he was 19, my bad.
Plenty of times 18 year olds have been thrown into the thrust of things. And if Diallo wasn't ready and not integrated in the team enough to play, then why is he on the bench? What's the point of having a player on the bench of a final if you can't bring him on for 20 mins when the starter is having a shocker?
If not Amad, why not James who's been with the team for a couple of seasons? Why not veteran Mata? The pace of the game was static anyway and there was no space, so a good game for him. Why not VDB in the middle and Pogba left?
You can try to provide a string of excuses for all that, but it's just that. Excuses. He had a handful of options and chose to keep playing a half-injured player that was having a shocker and not make any subs for 100 mins. Thus surrendering the impetus to Villarreal after 75'. He played for pens against Villarreal, with DDG in goal. Pure genius.
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In alot more games played in a easier league. Try again.
Yeah no problem.
Exactly so what does price paid for our bench have to do with anything?
If you want to bring money into in half of these players get paid more than Ole. Why do they get a free pass of it all being the managers fault? They weren't good enough.
Telles despite having played very little have served his purpose. Cavani was brought as back up to Martial, but considering the latter have had a diabolical season he ended up being the main man up front instead. VdB either needs more time to settle or we simply wasted 40 million on a player whos not good enough. Mata and Matic have also gotten a year older so in terms of depth, we did not add a whole lot last summer.
Also, OP did not say we lost yesterday because of lacking depth, he simply said depth is incredibly important and we currently lack it, which i agree with
Not going to blame lack of depth for our loss yesterday, it was a poor game from top to bottom, but if we had more dependable backups then the likes of Rashford and Bruno would not have been completely gassed by this point, and that might have made an impact
Who's giving them a free pass? Have your read the performance threads?
But if a player. who is coming from a series of poor games recently. is having a shocker and the manager is not utilising the depth he has then we will criticize him. This is a thread about the depth.
These reactions about Amad. Honestly, I‘m seeing the same reaction to how people used to moan about Ole not using Greenwood enough back then.
I also still remember how Klopp brought on Shaqiri vs 0-0 Newcastle this season in 1 min remaining of the game. The guy is supposed to be better than what we have on the bench as he was more proven in top level than James and in better age than Mata. And Klopp has different level of trust when someone as quality as Jota on the bench. That should answer your questions that quality matters.
Gets your stats right first mate, you think you can fool me by telling me the wrong stats. Try again.
Fergie has trusted a whole host of random teenagers, he's also trusted established squad players and senior members of his side.
SAF has had benches with a variety of quality - hell he brought on Quinton Fortune in an FA Cup final vs. Arsenal (in a game we were dominating no less). It is nonsensical to even argue that he wouldn't have made several changes before the 100th minute last night.
He isn't. And he has nothing to do with the argument.
Of course it does. It’s an example what happened if you have good quality bench or poor quality bench.
If you don't have that depth what are you gonna do ? Keep playing the same players until they break down ?
I’m not disrespecting O’Shea here but he subbed off O’Shea not Keane, Scholes or young Ronaldo or young Rooney or Ruud. It’s big difference of comparison with Mata/James/Amad to what we had in our XI.
Sounds like what Klopp did with only Jota he can trust.
This.
What an absurd analogy.
If Messi cost 0, he's still Leonel Messi, he plays like a 300M striker, not like an 0 striker.
What a novel idea, squad depth! That isn't on Ole, that is on Jose, VanGaal and Moyes. They've spent a small fortune on shit players who aren't good enough to play at United and Ole has been stuck with the task of either trying to move them on or getting the best out of them.
Like he said we are two to three players short from improving the starting XI and making the squad depth greater. Unfortunately we don't have the backing of a small oil rich country or a russian criminal so it'll take a bit more time to revamp the squad. Liverpool will be in the same spot a year or two from now.
Liverpools squad depth may not be better than ours and you're probably right however their starting XI is better than ours especially in the front 3 who do most of their scoring. That is why they won the CL not the depth of their squad.
Like he said we are two to three players short from improving the starting XI and making the squad depth greater. Unfortunately we don't have the backing of a small oil rich country or a russian criminal so it'll take a bit more time to revamp the squad. Liverpool will be in the same spot a year or two from now.
Liverpools squad depth may not be better than ours and you're probably right however their starting XI is better than ours especially in the front 3 who do most of their scoring. That is why they won the CL not the depth of their squad.
So is what our bench cost relevant?
Because the op cries about having no squad depth as the reason we lost the final.