Squad needs a big clear out and a re-balance

Mark Pawelek

New Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
2,598
Location
Kent, near London
PREAMBLE: It goes without saying that United need a director of football to take control of football matters generally. Duties should include control over all football staff such as players, coaches, scouts, medics, sports science, shrinks, and contract negotiators.

ISSUE: The current United squad is still miles away from good enough. Too many players are injury prone, or not good enough. Some players are aging or uncommitted. I identified 17 players who should leave in the summer. 13 seniors and 4 peripheral players. 4 of them are currently on loan. I obviously had doubts selling some of them: Pogba, Smalling, Mata, and Dalot. But for one reason or another all 4 should go. Smalling because he's never been fluent with the ball playing from the back. Dalot has already lost a lot of time to injuries (even before we bought him!). You could twist my arm to give him at least another season.



Fortunately, we don't need 17 like-for-like replacements or even 17 senior replacements. For example, some of those I'd like to axe are peripheral (Mitchell, Chong, CBJ, Grant, TFM) or excess (too many centre-backs). At the same time, we're still lacking in some areas. Our attack is weak in numbers, and in quality - in attacking midfield. We still need 2 more central midfielders. The solution is not to binge on fantasy footballers you want: Sancho, Grealish, Bruno F, Ziyech, Maddison. Not even Adama Traoré! Because selling clubs have the advantage over us; as the Bruno Fernandes non-deal shows. They can hold us over the barrel and rip us off. United need to turn the tables and take advantage in the transfer market, instead of always playing on the back foot. United can do this in 5 ways:
  1. Continue to get the best youth available. Players like Hannibal Mejbri
  2. Recruit Bosmans. United have the advantage here because we can blow other clubs out of the water as our standard player contract is better than other clubs' best deal!
  3. Buy young players from relegated clubs in every league; not just the PL. The selling club must sell, and we can out-compete our competitors with our standard contract terms.
  4. Look in lower divisions; especially the Championship.
  5. Look outside Europe, for example: South America
This transfer strategy can enable us to reset our squad this summer by clearing out most deadwood and rebalancing it. Fewer center backs, more right wingers, attackers, and midfielders.



After my re-balance, I improved the squad in every dimension!

--------------------------- Out ----- In
Number of players --------- 17 ------ 13
Average:
---------------- age: ---- 26.4 ---- 22.2 / win
--- injury impact (%) ---- 10.1 ----- 2.4 / win
------------ quality: ---- 15.5 ---- 25.0 / win
Total (£m) --------------- 217.3 --- 175.9 / win


10 seniors (+ 3 youths) arriving
13 seniors (+ 4 peripherals) leaving

In my imagination, I actually made a profit while improving the squad and still only managing to sell Pogba for £60m! I didn't even make full use or my transfer strategy - no bargains from relegated clubs because it's not May yet!

The players brought fix the squad imbalance almost perfectly (2 players for each position, except for fullbacks). Because I'd use Williams as a fullback option; and I promoted Ethan Laird to 1st team squad.

PS 1: 'Quality' is calcuated from Opta stats with a weighting for the level they play at. It incorporates injury data.
PS 2: 'Impact %' is calculated form other injury stats (assuming 55 matches per year).
PS 3: Buying and selling prices are made up, but I expect buying prices will be lower because I'd try to buy the best young players from relegated clubs. The selling club would have no power at all in that situation. Only competition from other clubs will drive up the price.

I wrote this post to show the squad is in a mess: injury prone, unbalanced and lacking quality in some areas. That the mess can be sorted but only if you're prepared to take risks.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,195
Location
Canada
Last 4 windows including this we have added just 6 players and let go 8 players. The 6 players we have added , one is a reserve keeper and two are young players in James and Dalot. We have been needing a big clear out window since 2018 summer but the board are just fooling and playing with fans.
 

Paul_Scholes18

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
13,891
We need to bring in players and not clear more out. The squad is super thin apart from having many central defenders who gets injured anyway.

2 forwards/wingers and 2 midfielders in before we sell anything. Then we can force Sanchez and Lingard out and maybe sell Pereira.
 

arthurka

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
18,743
Location
Rectum
Let's just have a closing sale, sell the lot close the doors and let FC United take the slot.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
36,142
Location
Where the grass is greener.
At this point it looks far more likely we’ll keep losing quality players while none coming in. Struggling to shift the shite we do have. The rot is really setting in now.
 

Resch

Full Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
682
Location
Salzburg, Austria
The Austrian and German media reports United tried to sign Augustin from Leipzig (AS Monaco), but they preferred to do business with Leeds, because Uniteds tries were late, passiv ans UNSTRUCTURED! This transfer shows everything, whats wrong at United. We have no plans who to sign, when to sign and how to sign. A big club like United should know its targets, should know, why they want to sign a certain player, how much the want to spend, how to convince a player and when they want to sign and who are the alternatives.
 

sewey89

Incorrectly predicted the de Jong transfer 2022
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Messages
10,683
Location
Chesterfield
I hope we get rid of the 17 but don't bring any in, just for bants.
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
8,021
Location
Ireland
The way we are going we won't have any players left here except the academy players.
 

James Ward

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
336
Stating the obvious really, but again this is not football manager, its not that easy unless we do this over 6 or 7 years.
 

Annihilate Now!

...or later, I'm not fussy
Scout
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
49,959
Location
W.Yorks
Don't worry we'll definitely clear them out.

Next season we'll probably have to play a cactus in midfield.
 

Zlatattack

New Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
7,374
It's not just about bodies. Squads are meant to provide more than just bodies, they're supposed to provide competition and tactical flexibility. Our current squad doesn't offer any of that.

How many of our squad players can geniunely challenge the first 11?
How many of our squad players provide us with the ability to change how we play?

I don't think any do.

For arguements sake i forsee our first XI as this;

DDG
AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Fred Mctominay
James Pogba Rashford
Martial​

Who can provide a legitimate challenge to these players? Romero, Williams, Greenwood, Smalling (who's out on loan). Maybe Dalot at a push. Other than that our next XI is just a downgrade or unknown quantities (Dalot).

Who offers a different way to play? We don't have a big striker, we don't have midfielder of the tikka-takka mould (maybe Mata). Who do we bring on if we want to play long? Who do we bring on if we want to keep the ball whilst under pressure?

We're short on numbers, but we're short on quality and tactical flexibility too.
 

sideshow_bob

Full Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
738
Supports
Healthy nutrition
Squad lacks balance & in need of a clear out?!?! You don't say....
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
8,021
Location
Ireland
We always had academy or under 21s ready to step up to the mark when we had injuries during SAF time. Why don't we have them now.
 

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
22,546
Location
Polska
Can't wait for Hannibal Mejbri teaching Matić, Lingard and Pereira how to make a through pass during high tempo play.
 

KristianMackle

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
695
We always like to see kids make it into the first team but Ole is taking it to another level. We need at least 3 world class players in this squad. Players on the level of Pogba; players who will cost in excess of 80 mil each. Are we willing to take that step? With Ole in charge?
It seems like Woody is afraid to make those investments under OIe but also likes too much to sack him.
 

LARulz

Full Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
18,199
At this point, i'd be happy to burn this to the ground and restart. Probably easier
 

Lash

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
12,173
Location
Buckinghamshire
Supports
Millwall, Saint-Etienne
Not really sure what your obsession with Dzyuba is, he's a donkey. Also Ilicic, no chance we sign those kinds of players. You'd probably be having the exact same post 1-2 years later wondering why we're stuffed with aging players like like Dzyuba, Ilicic and players that aren't good enough like Liam Walsh and Koch.
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
8,021
Location
Ireland
We always like to see kids make it into the first team but Ole is taking it to another level. We need at least 3 world class players in this squad. Players on the level of Pogba; players who will cost in excess of 80 mil each. Are we willing to take that step? With Ole in charge?
It seems like Woody is afraid to make those investments under OIe but also likes too much to sack him.
If we are to get managers like Poch or Alegri, they will demand world class players.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
7,093
——————De Gea———————

AWB-- New player-Maguire-New signing

. McTominay—New signing

New signing——New signing——Rashford

———————New signing——————

We're 6 quality players away from looking like a title winning team. So we definitely need a clear out and re balance
 

Dick Dastardly

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 10, 2019
Messages
112
Supports
Wrexham
One of Klopps successful strategies has been to remove deadwood. It sounds easy but when average players are on long and lucrative contracts it’s difficult.
 

NoPace

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
9,424
Who offers a different way to play? We don't have a big striker, we don't have midfielder of the tikka-takka mould (maybe Mata). Who do we bring on if we want to play long? Who do we bring on if we want to keep the ball whilst under pressure?

We're short on numbers, but we're short on quality and tactical flexibility too.
I think this makes a good case for Buendia, whose off ball movement is fantastic. He gets open constantly. He might not have enough end product to start for us but if Norwich go down you have to think he'd be a relatively affordable, young player who would increase our tactical flexibility even if he's a squad player.
 

Mark Pawelek

New Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
2,598
Location
Kent, near London
This looks like what some sort of fresh business school grad wrote on how to fix blackberry

Wish it's that simple.

Buy x sell y. Play mejbri. Loan cavani

This is not fm
Never been to business school, never mind graduated. I'm making a simple point: United management could fix most of the problems with the squad in one summer transfer window. But it needs someone to identify those problems. United need a DoF. Not to play FM - to use the transfer market instead of getting burnt in it. You clearly disagree with me and, presumably, agree with the club dogma - that it will take 2 or 3 more seasons to challenge? I disagree. United could challenge next season if they sort the squad out.
 

OleGunnar20

Full Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
2,201
Stating the obvious really, but again this is not football manager, its not that easy unless we do this over 6 or 7 years.
You see I don't think this is true. Look at what Inter have done this January, what Atlético Madrid did last summer - bringing in 5,6 or more players in one window is very doable.

Of course you need a functioning footballing hierarchy to do that, along with a willingness to do so. Neither of which we appear to have at the mo.

To be clear I don't think either club has recruited all that well during those splurges. But we obviously need major surgery, and with the proper scouting / negotiating in place I don't necessarily think it needs to take years.

Don't worry we'll definitely clear them out.

Next season we'll probably have to play a cactus in midfield.
I thought we sold Fellaini?
 

Gasolin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
6,107
Location
NYC
Naive question: Why a DOF? Why not just trust the manager to do all footballing part, and the other people run the financial part?
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
25,548
It's not just about bodies. Squads are meant to provide more than just bodies, they're supposed to provide competition and tactical flexibility. Our current squad doesn't offer any of that.

How many of our squad players can geniunely challenge the first 11?
How many of our squad players provide us with the ability to change how we play?

I don't think any do.

For arguements sake i forsee our first XI as this;

DDG
AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Fred Mctominay
James Pogba Rashford
Martial​

Who can provide a legitimate challenge to these players? Romero, Williams, Greenwood, Smalling (who's out on loan). Maybe Dalot at a push. Other than that our next XI is just a downgrade or unknown quantities (Dalot).

Who offers a different way to play? We don't have a big striker, we don't have midfielder of the tikka-takka mould (maybe Mata). Who do we bring on if we want to play long? Who do we bring on if we want to keep the ball whilst under pressure?

We're short on numbers, but we're short on quality and tactical flexibility too.
I don't disagree with this per se but really in most squads i remember we've hardly ever had more than a couple game changers. Apart from City not many do, even Liverpool have little in that regard.

Not to say our fan base moaned and insisted it wasn't the united way when we had players who provided the option of different tactics.

I look at that team and it's really not that bad. The defence is better than a lot of Fergie years, midfield is alright at least it's not Anderson/Cleverley level and up front we've got two good forwards even though neither are natural No 9s.

We should be doing much better than we are and 2 decent signings (one forward, one midfielder) and a change of manager should see a title challenge.
 

spiriticon

Full Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,449
We've been clearing out and uh, 're-balancing' since 2013 and yet here we are....
 

AneRu

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
3,171
I don't disagree with this per se but really in most squads i remember we've hardly ever had more than a couple game changers. Apart from City not many do, even Liverpool have little in that regard.

Not to say our fan base moaned and insisted it wasn't the united way when we had players who provided the option of different tactics.

I look at that team and it's really not that bad. The defence is better than a lot of Fergie years, midfield is alright at least it's not Anderson/Cleverley level and up front we've got two good forwards even though neither are natural No 9s.

We should be doing much better than we are and 2 decent signings (one forward, one midfielder) and a change of manager should see a title challenge.
Agree with this, we should be doing better and we aren't far off if we have our first choice players available. But we need a better manager, a better midfield and depth in attack which is why I am shocked that United are watching players like Sander Berge, Olmo et al move without them lifting a finger.

We need better leadership at executive level to recognize the opportunities in the market and act on them.
 

Mark Pawelek

New Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
2,598
Location
Kent, near London
We need to bring in players and not clear more out. The squad is super thin apart from having many central defenders who gets injured anyway.

2 forwards/wingers and 2 midfielders in before we sell anything. Then we can force Sanchez and Lingard out and maybe sell Pereira.
I don't disagree with you regarding forwards and midfielders, but I think we will have to get them through Bosmans first because I can't see Glazers splashing out money for 4 signings in today's ripoff market. United don't need to spend to challenge for the League. I even identified some Bosmans we can go for: Josip Ilicic (attacking midfield), Artem Dzyuba (striker), Liam Walsh (midfield). Not sexy names; but positions we need. Liam Walsh is probably ridiculously optimistic (don;t know if he can handle PL until we see him try). The other two play at a higher level. Safest bet of the 3 has to be Ilicic. I bet we'll be gazumped by Juve.

Why not sell the excess central defenders?, use the money to replace them with younger players from relegated clubs next summer in positions we actually need. Especially can't see the point in keeping Jones and Rojo. We'd still have Maguire, Linderof, Bailly, Smalling and Tuanzebe. We have 7 centre backs now! 3 of them frequently injured.
 
Last edited:

The Boogeyman

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
106
Supports
Liverpool
This looks like what some sort of fresh business school grad wrote on how to fix blackberry

Wish it's that simple.

Buy x sell y. Play mejbri. Loan cavani

This is not fm
I agree with you that things aren't nearly that simple, but I do think United's leadership are a bit stubborn in the wrong ways, and struggle to plan ahead.

For example, when you need an overhaul as large as United does, you have to be willing to cut your losses on some players, even if that means letting guys like Jones or Rojo go for very cheap. Sometimes you have to take a stand, as they have done with Pogba and Lukaku, but you can't let that get in the way of remaking the squad. They should've been able to get rid of 2-3 at more players over the last two years.

Slow/late negotiations seem to be the other big issue. Fernandes should've been locked up in the fall. Chelsea signed Pulisic this way, as did Liverpool with Van dijk. When that didn't happen, they should've moved on. Again, if the player is that important, you pay the fee (as Inter did with Lukaku). If Fernandes isn't that important to United, then they should've had 1-2 other targets ready to focus on when negotiations with Sporting stalled.
 

Mark Pawelek

New Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
2,598
Location
Kent, near London
I don't mind people criticising the details of my post. Especially the list of in players I said we could get. I do mind you all ignoring the points I made regarding quality of the current squad and how to fix it.

I answered some of the snipes and sarcs but it's pointless talking to people who think everything must be done the same old way or nothing new can be done. Too depressing.