Bruce got exactly the same points total as Rafa had done previously last season. Both play mind numbingly bad football but Bruce was doing just as well. It may be a coincidence but at the time they got hit with COVID he had them 13th and on track for circa 50 points. Since then, he’s barely had ASM available and the results have suffered accordingly.
Steve Bruce & Newcastle Utd
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Their results were far more than they deserved based on performance last season, was always going to catch up in the end.
Interesting how, now that he's got his best offensive players back, Wilson, St Max, they are doing so much better.
In the form table, only ManUtd and ManCity have more points. They had very tough fixtures too, games vs Leicester, Arsenal, Liverpool, West Ham, Spurs. Only Burnley was easy game.
Happy for him. Certs for relegation by a few (maybe me, don’t remember my prediction).
He has always been saying that.
Yes and he was right, he should be getting some credit here. Done really well for them this season.
Yep. I posted this on another thread but should have posted it here, so...
In the two seasons under Benitez, after returning to the PL, they spent £88.5m on transfer fees and finished 10th and 13th with 44 and 45 points. And he was proclaimed a genius, working wonders with peanuts to spend.
In Bruce's two seasons they've spent £100m on transfer fees, so pretty much the same, and last season also finished 13th, again with 44 points. This season, despite all their injuries (and results have unsurprisingly improved on their return) they're now currently 13th again, with 39 points, so on course for low-to-mid 40 points again like under Benitez.
The spending and points return has been pretty much identical under Benitez and Bruce, as has the goals scored each season, but the narrative of their achievements - one a genius working miracles, one a clown deserving sacking - has been hugely different. Which is very unfair. Bruce deserves as much praise as Benitez received for matching his 'achievements' under almost identical circumstances.
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Bruce has always seemed the best of the worst to me. He'll keep you in the premier league, same as Allardyce or Pulis but gets his teams playing better football than either. He's always had a good eye for attacking players or gets good form from them at least. He'll almost certainly never get to a cup final or even beat the seasons eventual champions, he doesn't do upsets but he tends to beat the teams around him more often than not. He's not great by any means but you can do so much worse.
St Max is mint; how long will he remain at Newcastle before a heavy bid comes in?
I'm in a What's App group full of Newcastle fans and I post similar stuff every week, and the way they try to downplay Bruce is astounding. Some of the excuses, and yeah during Benitez time he was hailed a managerial genius and Newcastle are so lucky to have him but Bruce has done just as well or around the same mark.
They say 'We haven't progressed at all though and it's Bruce fault'. Under Rafa, it was Ashley and how he was running the club into the ground. They just shift blame on people depending on how they feel.
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Happy for Brucie.
It's bizarre, really.
Benitez had them playing rubbish football. He also bought nearly 30 players for them, and they were nearly all crap.
I feel sorry for Steve Bruce - he seems like a good manager crushed under the stigma of being a tubby northerner.
Absolute disgrace that Bruce was being booed last night. Continues to do a great job there. Newcastle fans should be ashamed.
Newcastle were probably most hit by Covid in December where they were sitting comfortably in mid table and it took the squad ages to get over it, try explaining that to some of the fans and they just don't get it, the football is no worse than under Benitez whenever I watch them he's kept them in the league, they've also had some good performances lately when most the squad is available
Always thought the general dislike for Bruce stemmed from his Sunderland links?
He's actually a very astute manager with a proven record.
He's actually a very astute manager with a proven record.
Newcastle fans are weird, they adore the FSW and detest Bruce despite them looking just as good.
He's done really well.
Yep.
The Newcastle fans drive me mad. All the media pander to 'what a great crowd they are. They deserve better' etc. But they have to take their share of the blame in all the mayhem that's always going on at the club. They're always against either the owners or the manager or, often, both at the same time.
They've been bang out of order with Bruce this year. Because Rafa was one of the few managers that they didn't try to hound out, they really praised his 10th and 13th finishes and claimed he was a miracle worker. Bruce has come in and, as often happens, they've been against him from the start, and so slated his 13th and 12th finishes, with almost identical points and goal return to Rafa, and frequently demanded he be sacked.
With all their injuries, 12th is a really good effort this year. But it won't make a difference - they'll still be on his back from the start of next season.
Tbf when they’ve had a go since Wilson and ASM has come back they’ve looked decent, it was similar at the at start of the reason. Just a massive shit patch in the middle
...Which was when their key players were injured!
If it's about fairness, then surely a fair minded fan base and media would have understood why performances and results had worsened when they were suddenly without their key players, and waited to see if they improved when they got their best players back - as they have done.
I'm sure some anti-Bruce fans are desperately trying to claim some credit, saying if they hadn't made a fuss, the team wouldn't have 'given it a go' and results and performances wouldn't have improved. But that's BS. They've improved, unsurprisingly, thanks to the return of their key attacking players, and the very clever signing of Willock.
I feel there are a lot of misconceptions as to why Steve Bruce is not liked amongst Newcastle fans.
As you all know, Newcastle fans hate Mike Ashley. We're one of, if not the only club in the league that deliberately aims for four out of ten every season, this has had the effect of draining hope out of the fans. Shortly before our second relegation under Ashley's watch, Rafa Benitez approached the club and was appointed manager. He was hugely popular amongst fans because he restored some optimism. Not only did he aim to build a squad that was competitive, but he engaged with fans and did a lot of charity work in the local area. Ultimately he left because he was never going to get the backing to be become a club that just about avoids relegation, year in, year out.
Enter Steve Bruce. Admittedly, whoever got the gig was going to have a rough time winning over the fanbase, but he has done absolutely nothing to do so, in fact he's done the opposite. He constantly makes back-handed digs and remarks toward fans, winding them up further. He tows the party line and takes every opportunity to kiss Ashley's backside. When his neck is on the line he also has a habit of throwing players under the bus, particularly young players. Publicly lecturing Matty Longstaff on loyalty was particularly rich, coming from one of the most disloyal men in football. He's a nice guy is Steve, or so we constantly get told by his mates in the media.
Bruce has had two season now and finished on what the face of it, are completely acceptable positions. A lot of comparisons are made to Benitez's side, but Bruce has inherited a much better side and had a lot more cash to spend. Benitez seems to get a lot of stick from opposition fans for the football he played, based on a hand full of obscenely defensive performances away to big six sides, live on Sky. The truth is toward the second half of his second PL season, we were playing some really slick, high intensity stuff (see the victories at Huddersfield away or Man City at home), but that is beside the point.
Bruce has a bit of Pardew about him, in that he keeps results ticking over, but the performances feel like the wheels are never far from coming off. This season we began with a 5-4-1. We would give the opposition 70% of the ball and try and nick a result in the last twenty minutes (providing we were still in the game). Alarm bells started to ring when we did this at Sheffield United and deservedly lost. This was in the midst of an 11 game winless run and six defeats in a row. Ashley took action and brought in Graeme Jones to oversee Bruce's day to day activities. Since Jones came in we switched to a 4-3-1-2, reliant on pressing, with the strikers splitting and running the channels. Our record has improved dramatically, to won seven, drawn five, lost five. This was also during a period when we lost players due to COVID and injury. It's became evident with this switch of style that the fitness of the players is absolutely appalling (it also raises interesting questions as to what the power dynamic is between Bruce and Jones).
The form of Willock has helped too, but how different that could have been if the club's initial move Leicester's Choudhary hasn't have fallen through. It was a much needed stroke of luck and fingers crossed we can get him on loan for another season.
A bit of a TL;DR post, but that's just a summary as to why Bruce is not liked amongst Newcastle fans. You might think some of it unreasonable, but it's not as simple as he plays unattractive football. His relationship with the fans is simply non-existent and I think he'll always struggle because of that. It's not just Newcastle fans either, you can pop over to any Aston Villa board and they will tell you a very similar story. With Ashley still running the club and Bruce in charge, it's business as usual, there is no hope or optimism of trying to improve as a football club. I'd say it's more apathy than hatred towards Bruce.
As you all know, Newcastle fans hate Mike Ashley. We're one of, if not the only club in the league that deliberately aims for four out of ten every season, this has had the effect of draining hope out of the fans. Shortly before our second relegation under Ashley's watch, Rafa Benitez approached the club and was appointed manager. He was hugely popular amongst fans because he restored some optimism. Not only did he aim to build a squad that was competitive, but he engaged with fans and did a lot of charity work in the local area. Ultimately he left because he was never going to get the backing to be become a club that just about avoids relegation, year in, year out.
Enter Steve Bruce. Admittedly, whoever got the gig was going to have a rough time winning over the fanbase, but he has done absolutely nothing to do so, in fact he's done the opposite. He constantly makes back-handed digs and remarks toward fans, winding them up further. He tows the party line and takes every opportunity to kiss Ashley's backside. When his neck is on the line he also has a habit of throwing players under the bus, particularly young players. Publicly lecturing Matty Longstaff on loyalty was particularly rich, coming from one of the most disloyal men in football. He's a nice guy is Steve, or so we constantly get told by his mates in the media.
Bruce has had two season now and finished on what the face of it, are completely acceptable positions. A lot of comparisons are made to Benitez's side, but Bruce has inherited a much better side and had a lot more cash to spend. Benitez seems to get a lot of stick from opposition fans for the football he played, based on a hand full of obscenely defensive performances away to big six sides, live on Sky. The truth is toward the second half of his second PL season, we were playing some really slick, high intensity stuff (see the victories at Huddersfield away or Man City at home), but that is beside the point.
Bruce has a bit of Pardew about him, in that he keeps results ticking over, but the performances feel like the wheels are never far from coming off. This season we began with a 5-4-1. We would give the opposition 70% of the ball and try and nick a result in the last twenty minutes (providing we were still in the game). Alarm bells started to ring when we did this at Sheffield United and deservedly lost. This was in the midst of an 11 game winless run and six defeats in a row. Ashley took action and brought in Graeme Jones to oversee Bruce's day to day activities. Since Jones came in we switched to a 4-3-1-2, reliant on pressing, with the strikers splitting and running the channels. Our record has improved dramatically, to won seven, drawn five, lost five. This was also during a period when we lost players due to COVID and injury. It's became evident with this switch of style that the fitness of the players is absolutely appalling (it also raises interesting questions as to what the power dynamic is between Bruce and Jones).
The form of Willock has helped too, but how different that could have been if the club's initial move Leicester's Choudhary hasn't have fallen through. It was a much needed stroke of luck and fingers crossed we can get him on loan for another season.
A bit of a TL;DR post, but that's just a summary as to why Bruce is not liked amongst Newcastle fans. You might think some of it unreasonable, but it's not as simple as he plays unattractive football. His relationship with the fans is simply non-existent and I think he'll always struggle because of that. It's not just Newcastle fans either, you can pop over to any Aston Villa board and they will tell you a very similar story. With Ashley still running the club and Bruce in charge, it's business as usual, there is no hope or optimism of trying to improve as a football club. I'd say it's more apathy than hatred towards Bruce.
Thanks for the post.
I didn't really see anything there though that I haven't heard from Newcastle fans over the last two years (or for most of the managers under Ashley) - mostly boils down to the fact that you hate Ashley, hound out most managerial appointments on the 'basis' that they're puppets of his who toe the line (like criticism of most England bosses), many didn't like Bruce from the start as he's not Benitez and formerly managed Sunderland, so he had a lot of criticism and dared to respond to some so that's seen as 'making digs' from some fans who feel they can hurl abuse but don't expect to be stood up to, etc. And that his style of play, like most PL managers at clubs who can't compete financially with the foreign investment, is mostly pragmatic (and similar to Rafa's, and returns the same number of goals).
As regards the financial spending of the two, they've both spent very similar on transfer fees in the two years since promotion - £100m by Bruce, £88.5m by Benitez. The difference is in departures, as Newcastle received more from sales in the couple of years under Rafa. But Bruce arrived just as Perez was sold for £30m so the likes of Saint-Maximim was a replacement for him. But, yeah, this season they didn't sell anyone which was a change - and added Wilson, Lewis and Fraser so that was a better summer for a manager. But then the number of injuries throughout the season was a nightmare.
Finally, as regards the "we're one of, if not the only club in the league that deliberately aims for four out of ten every season". I think that's more about the different expectations of Newcastle compared to most other English owned clubs nowadays. Finishing 10th-13th in the PL 4 years running would not be deemed a '4 out of 10' season for virtually every other English owned club - as they'd know full well no English owner has the funds to match the Middle East, Russian, US billionaires in charge of many teams in the PL. So if they were finishing there, they'd be pretty pleased with it.
But Newcastle are different - partly because, despite not winning a trophy in over 50 years, and being in an unfashionable part of the country to appeal to foreign owners, you expect to be one of those teams owned by billionaires and up there competing, therefore 10th-13th is seen as failure (unless Rafa's in charge then it's 'working miracles'). No English owner is likely to come in and get Newcastle regularly into the top half of the PL given the foreign finances they're competing against nowadays.
I must admit, I've not heard many fans criticise Bruce because is an ex-Sunderland gaffer, but you are correct in that he was walking into a hostile situation and he had an incredibly difficult task in winning some fans over. Unfortunately for him his combination of flat out lies and verbal jabs has done nothing but make the relationship completely untenable. It is a two-sided story of course, but he has thrown fuel on what was already a pretty significant fire. This is not exclusive to his time at Newcastle either.
I do think you have the last couple of paragraphs wrong though. Every fan base has its numpties, but on the whole Newcastle fans just want a competitive club that aims for the highest league position possible. It's not so much where we are finishing that causes unrest, but the intent behind it. Ashley's ultimate goal is to have us just about surviving year in, year out. There is no intent to push on and try to establish ourselves in the top half of the table and there is no intent to go on an extended cup run. There is a difference between trying be competitive and not being good enough and cynically handicapping yourself so you aren't competitive and Mike Ashley takes the latter route every time. There are very few fans that expect us to be pushing the top six, they just want a club that tries. If you take the hope and excitement out of a football club, it makes it pretty difficult to get behind.
I do think you have the last couple of paragraphs wrong though. Every fan base has its numpties, but on the whole Newcastle fans just want a competitive club that aims for the highest league position possible. It's not so much where we are finishing that causes unrest, but the intent behind it. Ashley's ultimate goal is to have us just about surviving year in, year out. There is no intent to push on and try to establish ourselves in the top half of the table and there is no intent to go on an extended cup run. There is a difference between trying be competitive and not being good enough and cynically handicapping yourself so you aren't competitive and Mike Ashley takes the latter route every time. There are very few fans that expect us to be pushing the top six, they just want a club that tries. If you take the hope and excitement out of a football club, it makes it pretty difficult to get behind.
Exactly this. They have the most delusional fans in the world. Go out in Newcastle and say to a Geordie that they arnt a top 6 club and you will be punched in the face.
I think Bruce is doing about as good as one can with Newcastle under Mike Cashly.
I'm still surprised they finished 12th, it feels like they were in a relegation battle.
I'm still surprised they finished 12th, it feels like they were in a relegation battle.
He's done his job, keep Newcastle up - which is the extent of Ashley's ambition. Newcastle fans don't like Bruce but the owner is a much bigger issue. Bruce is cheap and will keep them up.
Might be true but Ashley wanted to sell until big Six blocked the Takeover.
I think Newcastle are still raging about the takeover thing and all the anger is going to Steve Bruce. He's done a really good Job
Could we have some examples of the verbal jabs and flat out lies from Bruce?
He didn't seem to arsed about the defeat in the post match interview.
Now watch him nick points off the dippers
Now watch him nick points off the dippers
He already crossed off this game as a loss before the international break, then put an extra cross after you signed RonaldoHe didn't seem to arsed about the defeat in the post match interview.
Now watch him nick points off the dippers
Large scale protests planned for Friday nights game.
Ashley's answer? Making 9,000 tickets in the home end available to Leeds fans. Because adding the biggest scumbags in football fandom to a powder keg situation is going to help matters.
This will not end well.
Ashley's answer? Making 9,000 tickets in the home end available to Leeds fans. Because adding the biggest scumbags in football fandom to a powder keg situation is going to help matters.
This will not end well.
Lost a lot of sympathy with Newcastle fans with how a large amount of their fanbase unironically protested the unjust nature of the blocked Saudi takeover.
Oh they're still protesting that. They have paper airplanes with an essay on Premier League corruption written on the back planned for Friday night.
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Funnily enough, this is the first season Bruce has tried to get Newcastle to play attacking football, but he just can't find the right balance, and the defence are suffering badly as a result. They've generally looked better than in previous seasons, and if Wilson had of stayed fit, I reckon they would have more points on the board. Poor Bruce, he finally tries to play more expansive football, but he'll be out the door now.
I've been highly critical of him in the past due to his utter shit on a stick football, that wasn't reaping any rewards whatsoever. Ironic that finally, he tries to adapt, but he won't have time to see it through. I actually commend him trying a different approach this season. Though, he probably wouldn't have had the time to see it through, with or without the takeover. I honestly can't see him ever getting another PL job. Only way he manages in the PL again, is if he takes someome up imo.
I've been highly critical of him in the past due to his utter shit on a stick football, that wasn't reaping any rewards whatsoever. Ironic that finally, he tries to adapt, but he won't have time to see it through. I actually commend him trying a different approach this season. Though, he probably wouldn't have had the time to see it through, with or without the takeover. I honestly can't see him ever getting another PL job. Only way he manages in the PL again, is if he takes someome up imo.