Straight red for tactical fouls

Pogue Mahone

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You love to see it. This should happen every time. Give that twat Fernandinho something to think about anyway.

Do the laws of the game back up this referee’s decision?
 

Vidyoyo

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I'm impressed the commentators can do their job from the stone age. Technology really is wonderful.

Laws are murky but for me it's a a red considering the tackle isn't an attempt to win the ball and the force could easily injure the player.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Good on the ref. You shouldn't expect those sorts of fouls to be 100% yellow cards. That's part of the problem. "Taking one for the team" allows dirty players to get away with murder and ruin the flow of games. Fernandinho of course, Van Bommel was another back in the day.
 

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Yeah feck that guy, should be a red. It’s obvious why he’s bringing him down.
 

AltiUn

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Excellent. Really enjoy seeing that.
 

Kasper

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I'm okay with fouls like this where there's no intent to play the ball and he's actively going for the legs which also brings a reasonable risk of getting him injured.
If you give every shirt pull (which also has no intent to play the ball but isn't nasty, no one gets injured for getting shirt pulled) a red card then I'd say that would become too much.

First priority should be to actually punish tactical fouls with a yellow card right from kick off on. Certain players (Fernandinho is a good example, Xabi Alonso used to be one) seem to get a free reign to do whatever they please in the first 20 minutes before the refs decide that it's actually reasonable to start handing out yellows.
 

SilentWitness

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Good decision for me. He didn't really need to do it as there were other defenders placed to deal with it but he obviously thought in his head due to that he'd only get a yellow. More fouls like this should be reds. Fine in Sunday League but not at Pro-level for me.
 

acnumber9

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I’d argue it would fall under endangering the safety of an opponent. Those snide tackles from behind can cause injury and he can’t argue he was attempting anything other than fouling the player. I would love to see more of it. It would make pressing risky and maybe stop every game of football being about who makes the least mistakes.
 

Shane88

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It's violent conduct before it's a tactical foul isn't it? It's a reckless swipe from miles behind the player.
 

Pexbo

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Was it definitely for a tactical foul and not because they were both running at speed and sliding in from behind to swipe the opponents legs out is actually dangerous play?
 

Classical Mechanic

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I think it was because of the nature of the tackle rather than because it was a professional foul. The studs raked across the back of his leg.
 

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You love to see it. This should happen every time. Give that twat Fernandinho something to think about anyway.

Do the laws of the game back up this referee’s decision?
Hmmm, to be fair that looks to me like he's being sent of for the nature of the tackle (it's a bit reckless)

if he had pulled him down by his shirt, or tripped him whilst still on his feet, there is no chance he'd have got a red card.
 

horsechoker

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I know there's the urban legend that the back pass rule destroyed Liverpool but if tactical fouls were more harshly punished I could see it throwing a Spanner in the works for teams like City
 

Pronewbie

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Looked like he was given a red because it was a sliding tackle from behind.

But yes, tactical fouls are too overpowered at the moment and needs a nerf. Everyone except United abuse it regularly. But maybe that’s why we complain that it’s OP..
 

Mb194dc

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It's violent conduct before it's a tactical foul isn't it? It's a reckless swipe from miles behind the player.
Yes indeed, reckless tackle from behind red card all day long. Just happens to be a tactical foul too.
 

Conor

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There is no way tactical fouls should ever be a red, unless the challenge itself warrants it. They are part of the game.
 

Dan_F

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Yeah feck it, I don’t mind that at all. It’ll get to murky waters deciding what’s a yellow and what is a red though.

I think being stricter on the number of fouls is probably fairer. Something like three fouls equaling a yellow.
 

B20

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I know there's the urban legend that the back pass rule destroyed Liverpool but if tactical fouls were more harshly punished I could see it throwing a Spanner in the works for teams like City
Yep
 

Pogue Mahone

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I think it was because of the nature of the tackle rather than because it was a professional foul. The studs raked across the back of his leg.
Hmmm, to be fair that looks to me like he's being sent of for the nature of the tackle (it's a bit reckless)

if he had pulled him down by his shirt, or tripped him whilst still on his feet, there is no chance he'd have got a red card.
It’s the equivalent of a rugby tap tackle. Clips one foot, knocking it into the other one. Risk of injury extremely low. Other than if he hurt himself falling over.

For me, it’s not about the injury so much as the cynicism. I know the rules don’t support this but I would like to see every foul where there is clearly no attempt to play the ball punishable with a red card. Don’t care if it’s a trip or a shirt pull. Same rules apply.
 

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I know there's the urban legend that the back pass rule destroyed Liverpool but if tactical fouls were more harshly punished I could see it throwing a Spanner in the works for teams like City
They don’t do tackles like this. They tap their opponents ankles, or impede them by holding them back briefly. All very innocuous fouls that tip the balance in their favour, none of them are usually worthy of a card let alone a red.
 

Daonico

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they wouldn't need to be reds if the yellows were applied consistenly to be fair, nowadays players know they can get away with several fouls before seeing the two yellows.
 

Oranges038

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Generally, I don't mind hard tackles, once the ball is there to be won and there is a genuine attempt to win it.

Ref was probably right here. You can get a yellow for tugging a players shirt but not for clipping his heels from behind. Every cynical tackle (professional foul) like that should be at least a booking if there's no attempt to get the ball.
 

Pexbo

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they wouldn't need to be reds if the yellows were applied consistenly to be fair, nowadays players know they can get away with several fouls before seeing the two yellows.
Sending a player off early for tactical fouls in a big match ruins the spectacle. Every Referee knows this and applies it consistently.

Similarly, sending off a United player against a midtable side improves the spectacle. Every referee knows this and applies it consistently.
 

Samid

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About from 1:20 on.
Cheers. I don't think it was for the tactical foul itself, but because it was reckless. He wouldn't have been off if it only was a shirt pull.

Reminds me of:

 

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It’s the equivalent of a rugby tap tackle. Clips one foot, knocking it into the other one. Risk of injury extremely low. Other than if he hurt himself falling over.

For me, it’s not about the injury so much as the cynicism. I know the rules don’t support this but I would like to see every foul where there is clearly no attempt to play the ball punishable with a red card. Don’t care if it’s a trip or a shirt pull. Same rules apply.
I think a red card is too harsh a puishment for just pulling someone back personally.

A sin bin of some kind would be a fairer punishment.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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Justified, seemed like there was a quite a bit of force in the challenge, he takes a real swipe. Wasn't just your basic block or clip on the ankle.

I remember Rooney got one for similar, he essentially kicked too high, and ended up practically kicking Stewart Downing up the arse.
 

Zen86

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Sending a player off early for tactical fouls in a big match ruins the spectacle. Every Referee knows this and applies it consistently.

Similarly, sending off a United player against a midtable side improves the spectacle. Every referee knows this and applies it consistently.
Systematic tactical fouls has somewhat ruined the spectacle of football already. I’m all in favour of red cards for this type of thing, simply to serve as a deterrent.
 

tomaldinho1

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I’d argue it would fall under endangering the safety of an opponent. Those snide tackles from behind can cause injury and he can’t argue he was attempting anything other than fouling the player. I would love to see more of it. It would make pressing risky and maybe stop every game of football being about who makes the least mistakes.
Agreed. If there's no attempt to play the ball it should be red. That was just a slide, from behind, into a man without the ball as far as the ref sees it.
 

Oranges038

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Sending a player off early for tactical fouls in a big match ruins the spectacle. Every Referee knows this and applies it consistently.

Similarly, sending off a United player against a midtable side improves the spectacle. Every referee knows this and applies it consistently.
It's probably why Wan Bissaka got sent off v Young Boys and KDB didn't against PSG.

 

Cascarino

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Not a red for me.
As a tactical foul it’s definitely not due to the positioning of those involved and the rest of the players.

I guess where the red came from is the swiping action, but with the angle of the boot I reckon with the ability to rewatch the challenge the ref wouldn’t have decided to go with the red.
 

Daonico

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Sending a player off early for tactical fouls in a big match ruins the spectacle. Every Referee knows this and applies it consistently.

Similarly, sending off a United player against a midtable side improves the spectacle. Every referee knows this and applies it consistently.
I understand this, but if yellows were applied consistenly, players would learn not to make the fouls in the first place, and the spectacle would (in my opinion) improve in the long term.
 

Heinzesight

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There’s tactical fouls but this wasn’t a little clip or a tug of the shirt..it was snide and reckless. You have to be clever doing these fouls but that was braindead. Deserved to go.

Fernandinho winds me up something chronic with his tactical fouling but he’s clever with it. It’s more annoying that he never gets booked for them until the hour mark.
 

Mike Smalling

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I think it was because of the nature of the tackle rather than because it was a professional foul. The studs raked across the back of his leg.
This. I would be fine with a yellow card for the challenge, if it had been a 'clean' tactical foul - meaning with no studs on lower leg.

I would much rather they start giving yellow cards first time and every time for Fernandinho-style small tactical fouls in the oppositions half. That is much more game-wrecking and needs correcting.
 

DOTA

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Been arguing all tactical fouls should be straight reds for nearly as long as I've followed football.

People generally seem to think I'm being insane but in too boring a way to be worth engaging for the novelty.
 

miked99

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I don't get the controversy, hacking someone down from behind with zero attempt to play the ball is a red card more often than not these days. The fact he lunged at him studs showing just guarantees it.
 

DOTA

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@Pogue Mahone you've really ballsed this up using an example that people think is violent conduct anyway.