Bruno should have come off before Pogba
Subbing Pogba instead of Matic
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Except those two occasions where he lost the ball, one of which cost us a goal, when he was pressed by just the one player.....not three.
We can maybe add the bolded part into the 'Excuses for Pogba handbook' right next to the 'he needs good players around him' one or maybe the 'he needs to play on the left of a midfield three' one....remember that one? That got him through at least a season and a half! Or perhaps its Ole's fault as, you know, he need a world class manager to manage him.
I'm sure however he will be back to his best against Palace however as they tend not to press, thankfully.
In the 4 years since he has returned, you could count the crunch games where he has played well for us on one hand. I had high hopes for him but not anymore, I just dont think he will ever become the player he should be.
Ive always questioned Ole about his defensive tactics and you post just adds to my doubts in this area. Like Ive said many times though we do need one or two more signings defensively.
Hopefully he learns from me but at the same time I think the whole team just had a off day apart from Martial.
I agree that both James only ran a lot and Ighalo can hold up play (which in hindsight might have helped although we never got the ball out of our own half) but I can totally see Ole's logic.
The lack of depth means we can't make too many changes to the lineup, but weakening it a little by leaving out one of the front 5 should be too bad. Plus it would allow us to use that player from the bench if needed when right now we don't have anyone who can come on and change a game (well, not for the better!).
With two games every week, using the same lineup game after game was too much.
Matic held midfield together pretty much on his own last night. He had lots of energy still clearly too, whereas Pogba looked tired.
Rashford was our best player with Martial not far behind...could probably argue either way. The problem was everything either of them created they were having to do entirely themselves.
It''s really easy to say the team had an off dy and a few did have poor games, but he pproblem here is we could have gone into this game with everyone bang on it, and would still have struggled due to the way we set up. You can't have a midfield of one person against an aggressive pressing side and expect it not to put the team under unecessary pressure. I think it's as likely the poor performances stemmed from that as anything else or if not were certainly fuelled by it.
Pogba in particular had no chance of playing well under the circumstances. I'm not shy of criticising him but what on earth was he supposed to do last night? He can't play directly against entire opposition midfields on his own.
Martial has never played well on the right. Maybe we could have played him on the left and moved Rashford over to the right, but even he is normally fairly poor on that side (but at least he has had some good games).
Horrendous tactics! Firstly Pogba shouldn't have come off. Even if he wasn't at his best he's still a threat for the opposition. Secondly you cannot replace Pogba with Fred against a team which are physically strong in midfield. That's just asking for trouble. Maybe Matic should have come off instead of Pogba and in that case MacTominay is the obvious replacement.
The man was toast in the first half. Of course he had to come off. When the legs are gone, the legs are gone. Can't force a tired player on for another 30 mins.
Solskjær is more concerned with fitness when he's subbing. Pogba has played a lot since covid after having barely played for a year. Can't be playing him 90 minutes every match. Sub made perfect sense to me. We still have more than a month left of our season.
Pogba was knackered. Played non stop since being back from injury and you could clearly see how shattered he was when he came off. The same with Bruno, he looked like he had nothing left.
I agree that we should have rested Matic and started with Fred and Mctominay on this game alongside pogba with Bruno on attack. Bruno moves all around the pitch so starting him on the right side probably wouldn't have restricted him and could have brought fresher Mason for last 30 minutes. Plus it was surprising that we made no change on playing from the back when anyone could see pogba was the single one in between 5 of their player and they were pressing him like a pack of wolves. Also, didn't understand going 3 at the back after Williams going off, 2 banks of 4 with Martial infront dropping deeper on thier only midfielder would have been ideal with fred at left back than playing Rashford and James as CM?
Hindsight’s a wonderful thing. At the time it wasn’t a terrible decision, Pogba was having a poor game by his standards and Bruno looked fecked towards the end. But yes it’s clear now we can’t have both Bruno and Pogba off the pitch at the same time especially when the games in the balance, Has to be one or the other. We lose all ability to retain possession and play it forward when they aren’t on but can’t blame Ole too much he can only bring on what he’s got and neither Scott or Fred offer what they do. Might of been a better idea to bring Ighalo on and have an outlet, someone to hold it up and bring others in, relieve the pressure a bit but it’s done now.
It's better to use the sub to address the reason why Pogba was having a poor game, rather than simply sub him off and then carry on in the same manner but with an inferior player.
Stupid Sub.
In hindsight Bruno should of been the man to make way. However, I understand why Ole didn’t make that change.
In hindsight Bruno should of been the man to make way. However, I understand why Ole didn’t make that change.
It wasn't really about being good or not at that stage in an attacking sense. It was about seeing out the game. We needed to intelligently break up their possession and then keep hold of the ball. Whether or not that was at all possible with the tiredness and players we had I am not sure, but we totally failed in the last 20 minutes and they were more than deserving of their draw. We literally chased shadows like headless chickens and couldn't string more than 2 passes before hoofing it. Maybe someone else wants to diagnose why.
Theres much more of an issue with ole not addressing the tactical problem of dealing with a pressuring team. That was more the issue he brought off pogba and bruno but played with the exact same tactics.
It was probably pre planned. He's been out for the best part of a year with a broken/chipped ankle or what ever it was straight into an unnaturally busy schedule.
Because Pogba would've won that header
Pogba needed to come off though?
Matic staying on was fine. I would have probably brought on McT over Fred as i think hes got better ball retention even if its simple?
All the subs were fine, but I would have used Ighalo (unless theres something we dont know) and brought off one of Martial and Rashford just so we could hit it long and have one of them and James run off.
But ultimately Williams getting injured was bad feckin luck. Honestly think that extra man helps us see out the game.
Matic staying on was fine. I would have probably brought on McT over Fred as i think hes got better ball retention even if its simple?
All the subs were fine, but I would have used Ighalo (unless theres something we dont know) and brought off one of Martial and Rashford just so we could hit it long and have one of them and James run off.
But ultimately Williams getting injured was bad feckin luck. Honestly think that extra man helps us see out the game.
I'd have taken mason off for Fred and played with 2 upfront. Matic sitting behind Pogba and Fred with Bruno maybe slotting in with them if needed. Keeps us ready to counter but solid as well. Maybe bringing James on for Bruno for his pace
Bringing off Pogba isn't the main problem here. It's who he replaces him with. Said it before and I'll keep on saying it Fred should be nowhere near our first team. Fecking unbelievable so many on here rate him!
I agree but with a caveat. think the staff had decided to push Shaw that far up the wing and Bruno into their backline as outlets to try to try to put reverse pressure on Southampton's press, show them something they might not have trained for and force them to adjust their shape enough to throw them off their game plan.
From there it's as you pointed out, with Matic dropping back to play as a LCB and increased pressure on Pogba tasked with making eye-of-the-needle passes to one of the front four every single possession. Extremely high-risk high-reward.
I can understand if the staff thought this would result in an advantage over the entirety of a match; if they felt it was worth trying against one of the best pressing teams in the world. Don't necessarily agree, but I could understand.
Maybe Ole learned something yesterday. As for not changing it up during the match, Ole does seem to be a bit tactically inflexible mid-game, but that's just a feeling. Maybe they'd told the team beforehand they were going to stick with that tactic no matter what to practice it against a well-executed press.
It should have been Bruno for Fred and push pogba forward. Bruno was poor and didn't relieve the press in midfield.
Pogba was quite clearly really tired. Probably more so than Matic. Maybe both could have came off.
Our midfield had a off day yesterday and we still created chances and were unlucky not to come away with a win, if it hadn't been for a last-minute goal.
It is what it is.
Our midfield had a off day yesterday and we still created chances and were unlucky not to come away with a win, if it hadn't been for a last-minute goal.
It is what it is.
For me the problem was the distance between them. Matic was effectively playing CB and Fernandes was so advanced he was closer to Martial than Pogba. It looked like the midfielders were in a vertical line, making it very easy for Soton to press and nullify
Line up was wrong players knackered especially Greenwood mctominay looked lost
when he came on
when he came on
This is the problem of the 4231 over the 433 in my opinion.
Bruno Fernandes and Pogba should be playing together in my opinion each taking changes to advance to the CAM position. The CDM plays in midfield but drops back inbetween the 2 CB'S to create a false back 3.
The front 3 then requires Martial to drop back and be the interlinking player whilst Greenwood and Rashford makes runs inward to be the wider goalscorers of the team.
I dont see why the 4231 is better than the 433 - it has our midfield separated as you said and players like Rashford and Greenwood sometimes playing like creators than finishers of chances.
When we started off the match, Matic was playing ahead of the defensive line and was constantly struggling with the press. He took way too many touches to settle on the ball, and that resulted in our whole team dropping deeper to compensate for it. When Matic dropped back to make a 3, however, he had more time on the ball, and we were able to advance the ball better. The real problem was that our front 4 were way too high, and no one was dropping deeper to pick up the ball. Ole made that adjustment against Villa in the 2nd half by having both Martial & Greenwood drop deeper to pick up the ball. Against Southampton, though, our front 4 remained higher up, and we tried to play on the counter instead. That failed, of course, because when the ball came to our attacking players, they'd either get surrounded by 2-3 Southampton players or give away possession with a sloppy pass.
I'd have thought that Matic would play more long passes in that deeper role with the time that he has, but his slower and shorter passing has caused us a problem. We relied on Maguire to play the longer passes, several of which were straight (thus easier to defend against). At least Fred is better in this regard with his quicker passes forward.
All 3 were poor, but clearly all 3 were knackered. Bruno has played non-stop, Matic is the eldest and Pogba is back from a long layoff.
It paid off in getting maximum points for a period, but let's hope it's short term fatigue and we can pick up the remaining 9 points now.
The three of them are quality, but in hindsight perhaps we could have utilised Fred and McTominay more.
It paid off in getting maximum points for a period, but let's hope it's short term fatigue and we can pick up the remaining 9 points now.
The three of them are quality, but in hindsight perhaps we could have utilised Fred and McTominay more.
Fair point but this also includes when he was actually playing as part of the back 3 late in the game. Before that. Half the time he was right up alongside Pogba.Not sure that's a very good read of the heat map. Whoscored also have average position data, and I think this would sum up what we saw:
Pogba was good on the ball but terrible at showing himself for passes out of the back.
Matic dropping between the centrebacks is what a DM is supposed to. Pretty much every team that plays out from the back does that, and has done for years. Busquests probably has it written into his contract.
Watching the match, it was annoying to see how infrequently Pogba would try to get himself into position to receive the ball. I'm not actually too mad about him giving it away for the first goal, because things like that happen in football. My problem with him was how little he could be arsed to help out for the rest of the match.
In fairness, Pogba isn't exactly press resistant so maybe he was avoiding it for that reason. But even if he was being marked, a bit of movement could have opened up space for a teammate. I spent most of the game (figuratively) screaming at him to show for the ball when Matic/Maguire/Lindelof had it. I think it's possible that after the first goal they could have lost faith in him a little bit... which might explain the pic and also explain why Ole felt it was right to substitute him.
Matic dropping between the centrebacks is what a DM is supposed to. Pretty much every team that plays out from the back does that, and has done for years. Busquests probably has it written into his contract.
Watching the match, it was annoying to see how infrequently Pogba would try to get himself into position to receive the ball. I'm not actually too mad about him giving it away for the first goal, because things like that happen in football. My problem with him was how little he could be arsed to help out for the rest of the match.
In fairness, Pogba isn't exactly press resistant so maybe he was avoiding it for that reason. But even if he was being marked, a bit of movement could have opened up space for a teammate. I spent most of the game (figuratively) screaming at him to show for the ball when Matic/Maguire/Lindelof had it. I think it's possible that after the first goal they could have lost faith in him a little bit... which might explain the pic and also explain why Ole felt it was right to substitute him.
After having had a think about the whole game I agree with Pogba as 10.
We should have started with Fred Mctominay with Pogba ahead of them.