Support David Moyes thread

[Danny1982]

'Fergie left me with OAPs' is headline on back of the Sun tomorrow

The Star says Moyes claims even Sir Alex would have struggled this season

EDIT: Same story in Mirror and Express

I'm putting my money on the media twisting his words, but he has said stupid things in the past, so if this turns out to be true, then this is definitely the worst statement he said so far.

However, I still think this is just the usual media bullsh*t.

 

[Enigma_87]

Chelsea have a waaay better squad than United. Please don't suggest the opposite because it is a huge leap of faith to say that Jose has squad problems similar to United. It was part of his masterplan to send Lukaku on loan and recruit Eto. I agree that Moyes has several drawbacks but it does not suddenly mean that our squad's previous drawbacks have suddenly disappeared. We still have an aging back four and a midfield problem that hasn't been solved for the last 3-4 years.

Chelsea doesn't have a better squad than us. Jose did a great job resurging Terry and turned Azpilicueta as one of the best left backs in the league. He's virtually without any striker of note, brought in Matic, Eto'o and Willian who have been pretty good and Matic would've been perfect for us as well.

Also Chelsea back 4(5) is much older than ours.

Both teams have problems with several positions, however one lies 1st and the other is 7th.

 

[Danny1982]

Is is possible for this forum to not have every flippin thread degenerate into the same old Moyes hating arguments? It is getting really tedious and bitter. Literally every thread which resides at the top of the home page seems entirely dedicated to Moyes bashing. Seriously rendering the forum un-feckin-readable.

I don't know how you people sustain the hatred required to post with such fury 24/7. It's just fecking football. If it's not entertaining you switch off the bloody TV - you are not entitled to constant wins solely because you support Manchester United.

There is no hatred involved. Really. It's normal that Moyes is being discussed heavily here. Even the great SAF had his moments on the caf with all the history he has, so it's not surprising that people are still debating about Moyes, especially considering how our season is unfolding.

Feel free to bring up other issues for discussion, but considering the title of this thread being "Support David Moyes thread", you're bound to see pretty much only posts about Moyes here.

 

[Danny1982]

Yes @Danny1982 I did shamelessly steal your quotes from the Moyes so far thread

It's okay. They're not "my quotes" after all.

 

[Lu Tze]

There is no hatred involved. Really. It's normal that Moyes is being discussed heavily here. Even the great SAF had his moments on the caf with all the history he has, so it's not surprising that people are still debating about Moyes, especially considering how our season is unfolding.

Feel free to bring up other issues for discussion, but considering the title of this thread being "Support David Moyes thread", you're bound to see pretty much only posts about Moyes here.

It's the incessant negativity which gets me. There is no part of the FF's where any positivity is allowed by the majority - express even a little, and the Moyes-Out vultures will come swooping down, and pile on the positive poster until they're driven away. It makes for a very dreary forum and ultimately boring discussions, as the same arguments are played out over and over again by the same people in marginally different scenarios.

 

[Empire]

1- So you think Moyes style is to fully control the team and not rely on assistants, but think the solution should be him hiring a good assistant?

I have said before one of Moyes problems this season, in my opinion, is that he does too much and it won't work here like it did at Everton unless he is a head coach with a director of football. To fulfil the role of Manchester United manager he must delegate more.

Therefore he does too much right now and this season it was his desire to do so hence possible reasoning for parting company with Rene. I think the games coming thick and fast might have knocked some sense into him and next season I would like him to delegate far more, hiring world class coaching talent in the process.

In previous posts, I have actually made quite clear I think he does too much. You might have forgotten though, so that's fair enough.

2- So we're going to wait until Moyes develop his skills?! I think Ferguson is the biggest legend in the club, and his name shouldn't be dragged repeatedly into the discussion just to defend Moyes.

I have said I'm not defending David Moyes but merely supporting the board's decision. David Moyes didn't have the right skills to immediately be successful, I think even Ferguson knew this when he appointed him. He probably thought he would get top four and then develop those skills over time. We both agree David doesn't have the right skills to be a title winner at this moment however if the board persist with him, then they must think he will improve, surely?

Ferguson is a legend but he is still very much so involved. I can't profess to know what he is thinking for sure, only he knows that, but should the board persist with him in the summer then he too will probably have a say in that.

Is Alex not a fan of Carlo Ancelotti? Now should Ancelotti get sacked from Madrid things get interesting...

3- My stats are more accurate because the sample is bigger (you're missing what the sample is here). I compared the results after 31 games, you compared them after 14-16 (away) games.

This is a fair point. Also, my comparison (as you know) was to look at away games on the assumption it requires tactical knowledge Moyes has a grasp of against home games where he seems more lost. The conclusion being perhaps he is not completely out of his depth tactically in the sense he is good at what he knows but needs to develop a few new skills.

That said, your point is fair. I was however trying to determine reasons for differences in results home and away therefore looking at the two separated was kind of the point. Especially the goals scored statistic combined with the points suggests the theory of him having difficulty in breaking teams down at Old Trafford is plausible. That's all I was trying to determine.

As you have touched upon already, we must be cautious in how we use statistics and they could change a lot between now and the end of the season. That said, even if we win every home game still we are far off what a top four side would be expected to get at home (about 45 points, we would have 33) yet if he win even one away game then we are close to an appropriate target for away games (35 points, we would have 33).

What I would like to see should Moyes stay on:

• Maintain the away results standard
• Improve drastically home results
• Improve overall results against the big teams

4- Everton did better after Moyes left, with the same players minus Fellaini, without Martinez needing any time to develop his skills. Moyes did well at Everton, but showed another manager can still immediately out-coach him with the same squad (if you want to follow the stats).

He had Lukaku and Barry also, it is possible with Lukaku and Barry Moyes would have also got more points last season.

They have so far done better though than what Moyes had. Martinez has done a very good job, however don't forget it shows David Moyes can build quite a strong team. Also note that he built that team on a negative budget.

I think Martinez is very good tactically and I think Alex Ferguson had a skill of knowing where he isn't incredibly strong (e.g. tactics) and so he got tacticians in to help him. Any great manager (in business or politics) will quickly identify his strengths and weaknesses and then get those around him he needs to help.

David Moyes better do this otherwise next season could also be a struggle.

5- Saying can't complain if sacked, and can't complain if he stayed isn't really an opinion about Moyes.

Another fair point. I feel I cannot form an opinion on David Moyes because I have limited information. Information I would like to have access to in order to form a fair, well researched and accurate opinion simply won't be available therefore I must respect the board's decision.

I am excited to see what happens in the summer though, furthermore, Ancelotti is my favourite manager in football and should Real Madrid finish third and should Moyes get sacked, it seems obvious. I mean he is going to be 55 in June and Moyes 51 in April, he stayed at Milan for 8 years therefore with time and patience to build his own dream team I can see him being a long term appointment. That said, if he became a free agent and the board still backed Moyes, they must really trust him.

 

[gasmanc]

He will find you and he will multi quote you

 

[Kag]

The player threads are full of positivity. I personally look to see the good in the vast majority of our players as much as possible, no matter how often people question their talent and professionalism. To say there is a constant source of negativity is untrue. In regards to Moyes, perhaps, but it's certainly warranted.

 

[Danny1982]

Do you not get bored having the same arguments over

and over

and over

and over again? It's utterly tedious. We should just have a bloody Moyes in/Out poll weekly to gauge opinion, one defined Moyes bashing thread, and one defined Moyes positivity thread, so the rest of the forum isn't completely infected by the incessant negativity.

Yeah great debate that will be.. In one thread: "Moyes is great.", "The squad is sh*t.", "Moyes definitely needs 6 years.", "I agree.", "I agree.", "I agree."... And in the other: "Moyes is sh*t.", "The squad is great.", "Moyes should go now.", "I agree.", "I agree.", "I agree.".

I think you're overreacting here. Yes there are things that are being repeated a lot here, yes it might go over the top sometimes, but that's the way the caf has always been. Nothing special in Moyes' case.

 

[entropy]

Chelsea don't have a waaay better squad, it was miles behind last season and they spent less than we have.

Our ageing back four consists of 3 CB's under 25 and a lad still developing at RB, we have issues in Evra and could use some back up for Rafa and perhaps another CB to cover injuries sure but apart from LB it's hardly a horror story, he's started to address the midfield hasn't he I am sure he signed one.

Your listening to the media, the media will feed you a nice little gem from Moyes in the morning, go check the Moyes so far thread and you will find his latest attack on our squad includes Ferguson, he is losing the plot.

I think you are insane to suggest that Chelsea have similar squad problems compared to us. But I don't see the point in explaining it in detail since you are so goddamn keen on making the same points and asking the same questions over and over again. I am sure you will find several other posters who will disagree with u on this point. Same goes for Enigma87.

 

[Lu Tze]

Yeah great debate that will be.. In one thread: "Moyes is great.", "The squad is sh*t.", "Moyes definitely needs 6 years.", "I agree.", "I agree.", "I agree."... And in the other: "Moyes is sh*t.", "The squad is great.", "Moyes should go now.", "I agree.", "I agree.", "I agree.".

I think you're overreacting here. Yes there are things that are being repeated a lot here, yes it might go over the top sometimes, but that's the way the caf has always been. Nothing special in Moyes' case.

There is no "great debate" at present. There is "Moyes is the devil incarnate" and "Moyes has been crap, but could turn out ok-ish, maybe we should consider giving him a few more months" and little in between. 50% of the criticism directed at Moyes is pseudo-psychological armchair analysis of his every statement. Hardly Socrates vs Plato.

 

[Danny1982]

He will find you and he will multi quote you

I think we've actually managed to have quite a good debate out of it.

 

[Fiskey]

I haven't been on here much recently, so don't really know the feeling. Motivated to message by the plane, let's support the bloke at least until the summer and re-evaluate then. He's not going to go before the end of the season, it would be detrimental if he did go, so let's get behind the team and the manager.

 

[gasmanc]

I think you are insane to suggest that Chelsea have similar squad problems compared to us. But I don't see the point in explaining it in detail since you are so goddamn keen on making the same points and asking the same questions over and over again. I am sure you will find several other posters who will disagree with u on this point. Same goes for Enigma87.

Mourinho inherited an ageing squad in very similar vein to Moyes, they even had issues in fullback, ageing cole or azp, CB also Terry ageing and Cahill constanly out of position and they've looked defensively solid despite it not being ideal for the manager. He's pushed Luiz up alongside his winter coup of Matic and it's genius and then the front 3 of Hazard, Oscar,Willian or Schurlle is not better than a combo of Mata,Rooney,Kagawa,Wellbeck. United are better set up front with RVP and have a better keeper. Our downfall has been having nobody decent to accompany Carrick.
Carrick Fellaini Vs Matic Luis guess whos been more savvy. Well Matic left Yaya a beaten man just a month back and battered the City midfield.

Your just swallowing whatever Moyes feeds you via the media.

Edit: Add the emerging Januzaj into an equation somewhere, he was in this piss poor squad in Fergusons last game.

 

[Danny1982]

I have said before one of Moyes problems this season, in my opinion, is that he does too much and it won't work here like it did at Everton unless he is a head coach with a director of football. To fulfil the role of Manchester United manager he must delegate more.

Therefore he does too much right now and this season it was his desire to do so hence possible reasoning for parting company with Rene. I think the games coming thick and fast might have knocked some sense into him and next season I would like him to delegate far more, hiring world class coaching talent in the process.

In previous posts, I have actually made quite clear I think he does too much. You might have forgotten though, so that's fair enough.



I have said I'm not defending David Moyes but merely supporting the board's decision. David Moyes didn't have the right skills to immediately be successful, I think even Ferguson knew this when he appointed him. He probably thought he would get top four and then develop those skills over time. We both agree David doesn't have the right skills to be a title winner at this moment however if the board persist with him, then they must think he will improve, surely?

Ferguson is a legend but he is still very much so involved. I can't profess to know what he is thinking for sure, only he knows that, but should the board persist with him in the summer then he too will probably have a say in that.

Is Alex not a fan of Carlo Ancelotti? Now should Ancelotti get sacked from Madrid things get interesting...



This is a fair point. Also, my comparison (as you know) was to look at away games on the assumption it requires tactical knowledge Moyes has a grasp of against home games where he seems more lost. The conclusion being perhaps he is not completely out of his depth tactically in the sense he is good at what he knows but needs to develop a few new skills.

That said, your point is fair. I was however trying to determine reasons for differences in results home and away therefore looking at the two separated was kind of the point. Especially the goals scored statistic combined with the points suggests the theory of him having difficulty in breaking teams down at Old Trafford is plausible. That's all I was trying to determine.

As you have touched upon already, we must be cautious in how we use statistics and they could change a lot between now and the end of the season. That said, even if we win every home game still we are far off what a top four side would be expected to get at home (about 45 points, we would have 33) yet if he win even one away game then we are close to an appropriate target for away games (35 points, we would have 33).

What I would like to see should Moyes stay on:

• Maintain the away results standard
• Improve drastically home results
• Improve overall results against the big teams

He had Lukaku and Barry also, it is possible with Lukaku and Barry Moyes would have also got more points last season.

They have so far done better though than what Moyes had. Martinez has done a very good job, however don't forget it shows David Moyes can build quite a strong team. Also note that he built that team on a negative budget.

I think Martinez is very good tactically and I think Alex Ferguson had a skill of knowing where he isn't incredibly strong (e.g. tactics) and so he got tacticians in to help him. Any great manager (in business or politics) will quickly identify his strengths and weaknesses and then get those around him he needs to help.

David Moyes better do this otherwise next season could also be a struggle.



Another fair point. I feel I cannot form an opinion on David Moyes because I have limited information. Information I would like to have access to in order to form a fair, well researched and accurate opinion simply won't be available therefore I must respect the board's decision.

I am excited to see what happens in the summer though, furthermore, Ancelotti is my favourite manager in football and should Real Madrid finish third and should Moyes get sacked, it seems obvious. I mean he is going to be 55 in June and Moyes 51 in April, he stayed at Milan for 8 years therefore with time and patience to build his own dream team I can see him being a long term appointment. That said, if he became a free agent and the board still backed Moyes, they must really trust him.

True, but on the other hand we should also credit Martinez for doing those deals like we should credit Moyes for the deals he's done at Everton, and also remember the fact that Moyes also took (arguably) Everton's best player with him to United. Personally I don't think it means much, and it doesn't make me want Martinez more than Moyes for that matter. I'm not going to make such a bold judgement based on a single and limited stat, and that was actually my main point.

However observing the way some Everton players have progressed under Martinez, and the way their mentality suddenly changed into an attacking one, does give you an idea about Moyes' tactics, and what we should expect from him at United, even if we had players capable of playing attacking football.

I can see a common ground on the other points (probably with some degree of disagreement about a couple of things).. Personally I don't think hiring an assistant coach would solve the problem, because I think there is a bigger problem with Moyes' character as well (motivation/man-management - at this level). He also doesn't seem to want people interfering with what he wants to do anyway, so he'll have to do it on his own it seems.

 

[Danny_]

Interestingly Ferguson in his first full season in charge took United to second and then it went tits up. The difference here is that he actually took them to second and in the first season from 19th in the table to mid-table. Clearly though they were a team worthy of being nearer the top however when it went horribly wrong the reaction must have been not unlike it is now.

People always point to Ferguson taking over a relegation threatened side however he took over a team that finished 4th the previous season and the manager was under pressure because they didn't win the title!!!

They happened to be 19th due to a bad start and fergie guided them to 11th that season but they were a top four side and came 4th the season before Fergie took over. Ferguson takes them 2nd in his first full season and then 11th, 13th, 6th, 2nd and 1st.

The season after he came 2nd so when he came 11th, he lost 13 games. I mean, people defend him saying well United were Relegation fodder but they came 4th the season before Ferguson took over and he did well taking them to 2nd. Understandably he was expected to mount another title challenge the following season but ended up 11th.

This worries me because he'll probably give Moyes 2 or 3 seasons to get it right and the board might let him. However Jurgen Klopp is more likely the next Alex Ferguson than David Moyes. (That is manager that gives a club stability but also wins a lot).

Weird. You gave a lot of good reasons to support Moyes but then at the end said you didn't want him?????

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Sometimes I just like to imagine us playing
____2 good CMS
Januzaj Mata Kagawa
______ Rooney

Next season and it all gets better

 

[NK86]

I haven't been on here much recently, so don't really know the feeling. Motivated to message by the plane, let's support the bloke at least until the summer and re-evaluate then. He's not going to go before the end of the season, it would be detrimental if he did go, so let's get behind the team and the manager.

How can it be any worse than it already is? Just curious.

 

[Empire]

Yes, nobody can suggest about David Moyes' hard work, because his work translates into victory or defeat for the team and the team's results indicate his work. There's no point in working for 18 hours without result too. A person with a low IQ can work for 18 hours but still get low marks than intelligent person working for 2 hours and surpassing him on the test.

His best is good and fine, but his best should not be the criteria for what's best for Manchester United.

Working hard and working smart are too different things. One can exert effort without exerting effort efficiently. By your logic the single mother struggling, barely able to support her children is not working hard yet the investor who might only work 30 hours a week earning far more money is working hard.

The single mother quite possibly works harder however the investor works smarter and so has produced the desired results. I think David Moyes' problem might be he has tried to do too much spreading himself thin however, I don't think he should put in any less effort but he should direct that effort more efficiently, that means focusing it on the most important areas and delegating everything else.

A story often cited regarding productivity:

Around 100 years ago, Charles Schwab, president of Bethlehem Steel, wanted to increase his own efficiency, and of the management team at the steel company. Ivy Lee, a well-known efficiency expert of the time, approached Mr. Schwab, and made a proposition Charles Schwab could not refuse:

Ivy Lee: "I can increase your people's efficiency – and your sales – if you will allow me to spend fifteen minutes with each of your executives."

Charles Schwab: "How much will it cost me?"

Ivy Lee: "Nothing, unless it works. After three months, you can send me a check for whatever you feel it's worth to you."

Charles Schwab: "It's a deal."

The following day, Ivy Lee met with Charles Schwab's management executives, spending only ten minutes with each in order to tell them:

Ivy Lee: "I want you to promise me that for the next ninety days, before leaving your office at the end of the day, you will make a list of the six most important things you have to do the next day and number them in their order of importance."

Astonished Executives: "That it?"

Ivy Lee: "That's it. Scratch off each item after finishing it, and go on to the next one on your list. If something doesn't get done, put it on the following day's list."

"Each Bethlehem executive consented to follow Lee's instructions. Three months later, Schwab studied the results and was so pleased that he sent Lee a check for $25,000.

That $25,000 would have been worth a lot 100 years ago, and it shows the importance of efficiency. From my experience it works incredibly well, you focus on the six most important things each day allowing you to complete them to the highest standard and delegate anything you cannot do. How hard one works is not the same as how efficiently or how smartly. The best managers I would say work every bit as hard as David Moyes, whether David works as smartly as them only time will tell, however, thus far it appears he doesn't.

Keane was fired from his last two managerial appointments in the Premier League and the Championship and by all accounts of his players, he didn't get on well with his players. From his character traits, we know that Keane is a straight talking sportsman who was fired from his playing days because of his criticism of his players. It's not a conducive trait for a manager and even Ireland has O'Neill as the manager and Keane in more or less a coach like capacity. So it does look he may not develop into a great manager, although there is a possibility that he can turn it around.

I agree, he may not develop into a great manager, I think you are right it's safe to say he won't. My point was that you do not know Keane inside out and you do not know what character traits he lacked once upon a time and later developed, just like I do not know whether Messi exerts effort in order to learn a new skill (that in application is effortless) however just as it is safe to suggest Keane won't develop into a new manager, I also think it is safe to suggest Messi exerts effort in training to learn a new skill.

In the end, you can type whatever you want, but you come and post here assuring others about David Moyes and his ability to work hard, and the training he does with the players when you practically know diddly squat. You are another poster on the internet who reads up on the internet and pass your theories here as a possibility. While it could be no less reasonable for you to suggest that David Moyes is in fact the perfect manager for the club, please don't post condescending bullshit about 'Hey Daniel, can you understand me' or 'Hey Gasmanc, do you comprehend my music'.

I have been the first to state I know diddly squat. My view that I've stated time and time again is that I cannot form an opinion on Moyes because I know so little about what is happening therefore I must respect the board's decision, perhaps had I known more then I would have an opinion.

 

[Buchan]

There's no quick fix at United. Moyes, Ferguson, nor anyone else for that matter, could change our situation immediately.

If Moyes fails with his own team in place next season, he cannot be defended but he needs to be given a pass this season.

 

[Drifter]

Good win for Moyes and the team.Onwards and hopefully upwards.

 

[Buchan]

Chuffed for him. He set the tone early doors with his defiant showing from the tunnel on his own.

Good to know we have a manager with a pair of bollocks anyway. If Mourinho did it (and he has), the Caf would be fawning over him.

Hypocrites.

 

[Comsmit]

There's no quick fix at United. Moyes, Ferguson, nor anyone else for that matter, could change our situation immediately.

If Moyes fails with his own team in place next season, he cannot be defended but he needs to be given a pass this season.

There is a quick fix, appoint a top draw manager. Nobody should just have a "pass" at United. He is the manager and this is "his team." Just because he didn't sign them doesn't mean they are not his team.

He simply hasn't earnt another season.

 

[charleysurf]

We were told on this forum that the majority of fans wanted him out, and the democratic will of the fans was being ignored by keeping the Chosen One banner.
The support today showed something different.
And hilarious to watch the nutters on here getting pissed off at the fans for supporting the manager! Apparently our fans at the match are " deluded"!

I don't know if Moyes will be here next season, but the nutters with their plane banner should be too embarrassed to show their faces at OT again!

 

[An Irish Red]

Chuffed for him. He set the tone early doors with his defiant showing from the tunnel on his own.

Good to know we have a manager with a pair of bollocks anyway. If Mourinho did it (and he has), the Caf would be fawning over him.

So after nearly a year in charge we can now add 'not afraid to walk out a tunnel' next to giving Rooney and Januzaj new contracts. Brilliant.

Keep it up Moyesy lad, Mourinho might be on track to win the league but he can't walk out tunnels like you can!

 

[UnofficialDevil]

There's no quick fix at United. Moyes, Ferguson, nor anyone else for that matter, could change our situation immediately.

If Moyes fails with his own team in place next season, he cannot be defended but he needs to be given a pass this season.

Dear god no!

 

[shaggy]

So after nearly a year in charge we can now add 'not afraid to walk out a tunnel' next to giving Rooney and Januzaj new contracts. Brilliant.

Keep it up Moyesy lad, Mourinho might be on track to win the league but he can't walk out tunnels like you can!

 

[Buchan]

So after nearly a year in charge we can now add 'not afraid to walk out a tunnel' next to giving Rooney and Januzaj new contracts. Brilliant.

Keep it up Moyesy lad, Mourinho might be on track to win the league but he can't walk out tunnels like you can!

Galway folk are notoriously fickle so no surprise here.

 

[evra]

A good manager would have this squad comfortably in the top 4, Moyes just doesn't have the tactical nous for this job. The players look fit and motivated but that's about all you can say in his favour.

 

[bosnian_red]

Said it in the post match thread, but a result like this just doesn't get me excited anymore as we'll get smashed the next game. Maybe at the start of the season it would be good, but he's past the point of no return and he should leave unless we win the champions league. Nothing else can save his job.

 

[Rykker_4united]

So we've forgotten how he's thrown everyone under the bus this week then because he had us beat Villa 4-1? Right, carry on then.

 

[An Irish Red]

Galway folk are notoriously fickle so no surprise here.

I'm not from Galway and I'm the opposite of fickle if anything. I wanted him out before the match, I still want him out after it. Nothing has changed.

 

[Buchan]

Said it in the post match thread, but a result like this just doesn't get me excited anymore as we'll get smashed the next game. Maybe at the start of the season it would be good, but he's past the point of no return and he should leave unless we win the champions league. Nothing else can save his job.

We beat Swansea 1-4 on the opening day of this season...

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Said it in the post match thread, but a result like this just doesn't get me excited anymore as we'll get smashed the next game. Maybe at the start of the season it would be good, but he's past the point of no return and he should leave unless we win the champions league. Nothing else can save his job.

Any team in the world would get smashed in the next game though? Fair enough reading into City and Liverpool results, but Barca got beaten 7-0 on agg last year by Bayern and they've improved since... they beat everyone, like serious question - what do you think you can read into us going out to bayern if we do?

 

[rio's upper lip]

There's no quick fix at United. Moyes, Ferguson, nor anyone else for that matter, could change our situation immediately.

If Moyes fails with his own team in place next season, he cannot be defended but he needs to be given a pass this season.

See, that's where we disagree. Massively. No one should be given a pass after an utterly shite season like this.

 

[bosnian_red]

Any team in the world would get smashed in the next game though? Fair enough reading into City and Liverpool results, but Barca got beaten 7-0 on agg last year by Bayern and they've improved since... they beat everyone, like serious question - what do you think you can read into us going out to bayern if we do?

Oh I'm not expecting anything, we'd lose and get comfortably out played with Sir Alex. Its just that Moyes can't prove anything against smaller/bottom half teams. The fact that he has 1 win in 13 games against teams in the top 9 of the premier league shows that he just isn't good enough, and he's basically run out of chances to sufficiently improve that. Winning games against the bottom half means feck all if you still lose all of them against the top half, which is basically what he's done.

 

[bosnian_red]

We beat Swansea 1-4 on the opening day of this season...

And it was good, promising signs on the opening day. Today was the first time we scored 4 since the opening day of the season though, and when you have Van Persie, Mata, Kagawa, Rooney, Januzaj and everyone else we have, that's a very poor record to have.

 

[Ubik]

Any team in the world would get smashed in the next game though? Fair enough reading into City and Liverpool results, but Barca got beaten 7-0 on agg last year by Bayern and they've improved since... they beat everyone, like serious question - what do you think you can read into us going out to bayern if we do?

That we're not going to play in the champions league again for a fairly long time.

 

[Tomalonge]

Thought the fans did the right thing today, incredible support.

 

[Danny1982]

There's no quick fix at United. Moyes, Ferguson, nor anyone else for that matter, could change our situation immediately.

If Moyes fails with his own team in place next season, he cannot be defended but he needs to be given a pass this season.

Congratulations. You have been Moysified.

 

[A1X]

I don't see how people can say with a straight face that "Ferguson wouldn't make a difference with this squad" when Ferguson took this squad to the title last season...