Support the club and not UEFA / PSG

[SinNombre]

Ceferin congratulated Al-Khelaifi:

“Football needs good people in positions of responsibility. He is a man I can trust.”


Sure, these are your new pillars of moral behavior in football.

 

[Sayros]

The great thing about all of this is that none of the fans on here now can be taken seriously with their morally superior club. It's cute to want to divert the attention to PSG though.

 

[Mount's Goatieson]

What are you even on about? I literally didn't use the word "us", not sure why you're using quotes there. Also, I'm American mate. Of course I don't think every American is a Glazer as I have a different surname.

You're the one who brought up Roman in the first place as a negative comparison to your own owners? Not sure why you seem upset that I'm less upset with our ownership than you are with yours?

I think it's completely fair to state that the likes of us, City, and PSG have certainly done harm to the game in the past, and that UEFA as a whole has been grossly incompetent at times. But there's levels to this mate - just because a bathroom needs renovating doesn't mean burning the house down is the right course of action.



Up there with the dumbest things I've ever seen on this forum. Unless you're limiting your definition of "Americans" to "American billionaires" this is staggeringly off base.

Nope not really. You thinking that it's dumb does not make it so. I'd wish my country could produce a leader with policies like Trump.
You're here pretending that his tax cuts were the only policies he implemented. Tax cuts that also benefitted small to medium scale enterprises across America, which helped to boost the economy and reduce unemployment, especially in minority communities, at a rate not seen before in decades before the pandemic hit. But I bet your news sources never told you that. Tax cuts for billionaires was one of the biggest pieces of propaganda ever put out there (together with the Russia collusion and recently the supposed Russia bounties on American army heads) all fabricated by known Propaganda Left wing media (CNN and The New York Times)

As an outsider looking in, I'd rather have his immigration policies in my country than the democrats, I'd rather his foreign policies (minding their own damn business) than the democrats, his economic policies (less cooperate taxes which increases employment and wages of middle and working class) than the democrats (increases taxes and the crazy $15 minimum wage ...which was either going to put more small - medium scale businesses out of the competitive market, during a pandemic that has already than a fair bit damage in that regard, or lay off more workers hence increasing unemployment further, or increase in consumer prices in response to increase in taxes and wages, again during a pandemic. Ever wondered why the Big Businesses were in support of that? Because they could afford it, but their smaller scaled competitors would be stifled out of business. Even Biden wasn't too radical for that crappy policy.
You can remove the man Trump from his policies, it's not too hard to rationalize. His personality may rub some people off the wrong way (I certainly felt like that before 2019 when I gained more interest in American politics because of him) but there has been historically shitty people with some great ideas. If I were American, I'd want my President making decisions that served my interest, not to appease the world.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Nope not really. You thinking that it's dumb does not make it so. I'd wish my country could produce a leader with policies like Trump.
You're here pretending that his tax cuts were the only policies he implemented. Tax cuts that also benefitted small to medium scale enterprises across America, which helped to boost the economy and reduce unemployment, especially in minority communities, at a rate not seen before in decades before the pandemic hit. But I bet your news sources never told you that. Tax cuts for billionaires was one of the biggest pieces of propaganda ever put out there (together with the Russia collusion and recently the supposed Russia bounties on American army heads) all fabricated by known Propaganda Left wing media (CNN and The New York Times)

As an outsider looking in, I'd rather have his immigration policies in my country than the democrats, I'd rather his foreign policies (minding their own damn business) than the democrats, his economic policies (less cooperate taxes which increases employment and wages of middle and working class) than the democrats (increases taxes and the crazy $15 minimum wage ...which was either going to put more small - medium scale businesses out of the competitive market, during a pandemic that has already than a fair bit damage in that regard, or lay off more workers hence increasing unemployment further, or increase in consumer prices in response to increase in taxes and wages, again during a pandemic. Ever wondered why the Big Businesses were in support of that? Because they could afford it, but their smaller scaled competitors would be stifled out of business. Even Biden wasn't too radical for that crappy policy.
You can remove the man Trump from his policies, it's not too hard to rationalize. His personality may rub some people off the wrong way (I certainly felt like that before 2019 when I gained more interest in American politics because of him) but there has been historically shitty people with some great ideas. If I were American, I'd want my President making decisions that served my interest, not to appease the world.

All of this is so wrong it's comical. Trump's economic policies were good insofar as he didn't derail progress made under Obama - he didn't "boost" anything, the trends merely continued.

Calling outlets like CNN and the NYT "propaganda" is also hilariously ironic - guessing your sources are the likes of Newsmax and Fox. It's been conclusively established that trickle down economics doesn't actually work and doesn't drive job creation - take an econ class before spouting this drivel about corporate tax cuts driving employment.

Also you seem to not realize that the $15 minimum wage wasn't going to happen overnight - as proposed it would gradually increase until it's $15 by 2025. It's also hilariously stupid and without historical precedent to think that this would drive down employment - getting more money into the economy is a good thing. When the minimum wage was at its highest point in the late 60s, unemployment wasn't skyrocketing. If the minimum wage had solely kept up with inflation, it'd be $24 per hour.

Trump is an idiot populist who served only his own interests and he'll go down as the worst president in our history. We're not even getting into his COVID response, his misuse of taxpayer funds, his impact on climate policy, etc. Your summary of him is so fundamentally wrong it's risible.

 

[ericPSG]

So when real broke all transfer records for zidane, figo, ronaldo and beckham in 3 summers, it s fine because they are an old club. But an oil club should not. Why not?

So old clubs came to be for free? Never in their history thay had help from investor, their city or else? They always had only profit at the end of the season?
That’s just old clubs wanting to stop newcomers. The same idea behind the ESL but the ESL went too far to display it

 

[Mount's Goatieson]

All of this is so wrong it's comical. Trump's economic policies were good insofar as he didn't derail progress made under Obama - he didn't "boost" anything, the trends merely continued.

Calling outlets like CNN and the NYT "propaganda" is also hilariously ironic - guessing your sources are the likes of Newsmax and Fox. It's been conclusively established that trickle down economics doesn't actually work and doesn't drive job creation - take an econ class before spouting this drivel about corporate tax cuts driving employment.

Also you seem to not realize that the $15 minimum wage wasn't going to happen overnight - as proposed it would gradually increase until it's $15 by 2025. It's also hilariously stupid and without historical precedent to think that this would drive down employment - getting more money into the economy is a good thing. When the minimum wage was at its highest point in the late 60s, unemployment wasn't skyrocketing. If the minimum wage had solely kept up with inflation, it'd be $24 per hour.

Trump is an idiot populist who served only his own interests and he'll go down as the worst president in our history. We're not even getting into his COVID response, his misuse of taxpayer funds, his impact on climate policy, etc. Your summary of him is so fundamentally wrong it's risible.

Man this is so pointless. “Take an econs class” dude I'm an Economics major . Reduced taxes does not promote increased employment as proven by who? It's economics...one of the first things you are thought is to assume you are in an idealistic world where everything works as it should, but that's far from the case. There might be some discrepancies, esp with how fecked up human nature is, bit that is why we deal with statistics and statistically, reduced taxes does tend to increase the likelihood of more people joining the workforce as it reduces the burden cost of on employers and hence creates more room for added wages in a bid to maximize production. How about some CREDIBLE sources before you start spouting about things you don't know?
And my news sources are all of the above, that's why I can sort out the truth from all the noise. Used to follow only CNN in my country (because it was free) until I made the effort to look for other sources and think. I suggest you should do same.
“Trump is a populist”....well you must be new to politics then. All politicians are...preying on vulnerable minds to gain power, you think Biden and the DNC are any different? You should read up on his history.
In governance it's not about who held your hand whiles you sang kumbaya and who told you to shut the feck up!...It's about who's policies works best for the growth and sustainability of the country.

Also yes pumping more money into the economy can be a good thing, so far as you make concrete plans to combat inflation which is a given, especially in a pandemic and enforced lockdown. Did the DNC propose any plans for tackling this? They spent the entire time downplaying it and then complained about no Republican putting their names next to the bill. Like they are ever going to be in support of a bill with clearly bad ramifications in the near future. Economic health, it appears, is all they have to win votes in the US these days.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Man this is so pointless. “Take an econs class” dude I'm an Economics major . Reduced taxes does not promote increased employment as proven by who? It's economics...one of the first things you are thought is to assume you are in an idealistic world where everything works as it should, but that's far from the case. There might be some discrepancies, esp with how fecked up human nature is, bit that is why we deal with statistics and statistically, reduced taxes does tend to increase the likelihood of more people joining the workforce as it reduces the burden cost of on employers and hence creates more room for added wages in a bid to maximize production. How about some CREDIBLE sources before you start spouting about things you don't know?
And my news sources are all of the above, that's why I can sort out the truth from all the noise. Used to follow only CNN in my country (because it was free) until I made the effort to look for other sources and think. I suggest you should do same.
“Trump is a populist”....well you must be new to politics then. All politicians are...preying on vulnerable minds to gain power, you think Biden and the DNC are any different? You should read up on his history.
In governance it's not about who held your hand whiles you sang kumbaya and who told you to shut the feck up!...It's about who's policies works best for the growth and sustainability of the country.

Also yes pumping more money into the economy can be a good thing, so far as you make concrete plans to combat inflation which is a given, especially in a pandemic and enforced lockdown. Did the DNC propose any plans for tackling this? They spent the entire time downplaying it and then complained about no Republican putting their names next to the bill. Like they are ever going to be in support of a bill with clearly bad ramifications in the near future. Economic health, it appears, is all they have to win votes in the US these days.

Where, Trump University?

As for sources (and also just FYI, Newsmax is a fecking joke and you probably shouldn't admit publicly to watching it):
https://www.wsj.com/articles/did-the-u-s-tax-overhaul-do-what-it-promised-11578114001
https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/pol.6.1.230
https://www.brookings.edu/policy202...cut-the-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-pay-for-itself/

I have no idea why you're even bringing up inflation - right now we're well below 2%, and if it ever becomes a problem the Fed will just raise lending rates. Nothing the Democrats have proposed will cause inflation to spiral out of control, certainly not to the point where modern monetary policy would be unable to handle it.

 

[Mount's Goatieson]

Where, Trump University?

As for sources (and also just FYI, Newsmax is a fecking joke and you probably shouldn't admit publicly to watching it):
https://www.wsj.com/articles/did-the-u-s-tax-overhaul-do-what-it-promised-11578114001
https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/pol.6.1.230
https://www.brookings.edu/policy202...cut-the-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-pay-for-itself/

I have no idea why you're even bringing up inflation - right now we're well below 2%, and if it ever becomes a problem the Fed will just raise lending rates. Nothing the Democrats have proposed will cause inflation to spiral out of control, certainly not to the point where modern monetary policy would be unable to handle it.

Dude your silly little jabs don't really mean anything over the internet. You'd think it'll be obvious to a literate but yeah.
Sources at last, I'll take time and go through them and check their authenticity.
Also, if a news outlets credibility influenced my search for info, I'd have stopped watching CNN and MSNBC after the “Russia collusion propaganda”. More so recently after one of their directors on camera openly admitted to the network formulating stories to create a political narrative (like the Russia collusion and he personally stating the fake health concerns of Trump). They are all partisan shills more than news media these days, but the truth is always in between and you'll have to take both sides to decipher it for yourself.

 

[duffer]

You two are making me look bad.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Dude your silly little jabs don't really mean anything over the internet. You'd think it'll be obvious to a literate but yeah.
Sources at last, I'll take time and go through them and check their authenticity.
Also, if a news outlets credibility influenced my search for info, I'd have stopped watching CNN and MSNBC after the “Russia collusion propaganda”. More so recently after one of their directors on camera openly admitted to the network formulating stories to create a political narrative (like the Russia collusion and he personally stating the fake health concerns of Trump). They are all partisan shills more than news media these days, but the truth is always in between and you'll have to take both sides to decipher it for yourself.

I mean you're just regurgitating talking points from conservative media regarding economics. You don't seem to understand how US monetary policy actually works or what is or isn't important - inflation is certainly not a problem that even should be on anyone's radar right now. If anything we want more inflation at the moment.

 

[Kentonio]

I see what you mean, and i m not saying that the others are angels. But even in 2001, United had the most revenues of any football club, from TV, prizes, gate receipts, sponsors, whatever. Even if I dont like how the gap was growing, at least there was an explanation; if you are succesful you can spend. United untill early 00s was spending less or similar to Liverpool, Newcastle, Everton, Blackburn, Leeds etc. Blackburn and Leeds paid the price for their unsustainable -or flawed- business model. Yet, Chelsea backed by an oligarch started spending a sum equal or more to their income (not profit), while having amassed already big debts. Just an example, in 2003 their income was 130 millions and their net spending was 170 millions.

People (United fans mostly lets be honest here) keep bringing up this idea that having more money was fine because they earned it. I just want to ask, why is this better exactly in footballing terms? One team having a lot more resources available than any of the other teams just means you get the Bundesliga, with one team basically nearly guaranteed to win the title every season. That was you pre-Roman in essense. In 11 years from 92-03 you won the title 8 times. Is that a compelling, fun experience based on open competition? Even after Roman arrived in the subsequent 10 years you won 5 titles to Chelsea's 3. That's how big your advantage was.

The PL now is considerably more open and interesting than it was before the super-rich owners arrived. There's certainly an argument to be made that City/PSG have taken it too far, and that having state owned clubs with basically unlimited money is just too much of an imbalance, but I see nothing appealing about returning to a situation where one or two clubs are the only ones with any realistic chance of lifting titles.

 

[DoomSlayer]

You two are making me look bad.

I already have the lot of you on ignore and had to click on the "show ignored posts" to understand what the feck is going on.

 

[Mount's Goatieson]

I mean you're just regurgitating talking points from conservative media regarding economics. You don't seem to understand how US monetary policy actually works or what is or isn't important - inflation is certainly not a problem that even should be on anyone's radar right now. If anything we want more inflation at the moment.

Dude I don't need to follow conservative media to know what inflation is, how it comes about and it's consequences. I could use the same logic for you (regarding news media regurgitation). What you are saying is exactly how the left media have been downplaying concerns with the bill since it's conception.
You need more inflation right now?!!! What wow makes me think you absolutely don't know what you are talking about. But I feel like you do but just want to score some lefty, Socialist points. No one needs inflation dude. Only people it hurts in the long run are the consumers themselves, the poor ones to be precise.
In the mist of a pandemic with enforced lockdowns, you're are pushing unearned capital into the hands of millions of people with very little to spend on (lockdowns remember). Stimulating the economy is people spending money, how exactly are you stimulating the economy when people are keeping their checks locked up in banks waiting for better days to come?(post pandemic).
Economics are pretty much speculative, but this is a clear recipe for inflation and I suggest you read more about it before you claim thats what your country needs.

 

[BlueHaze]

I just want to know why politics is being brought up in so many football threads these days and why the hell someone supporting trump or not brings any sort of relevance to the discussion. @TheMagicFoolBus why did you even have to mention trump ?

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Dude I don't need to follow conservative media to know what inflation is, how it comes about and it's consequences. I could use the same logic for you (regarding news media regurgitation). What you are saying is exactly how the left media have been downplaying concerns with the bill since it's conception.
You need more inflation right now?!!! What wow makes me think you absolutely don't know what you are talking about. But I feel like you do but just want to score some lefty, Socialist points. No one needs inflation dude. Only people it hurts in the long run are the consumers themselves, the poor ones to be precise.
In the mist of a pandemic with enforced lockdowns, you're are pushing unearned capital into the hands of millions of people with very little to spend on (lockdowns remember). Stimulating the economy is people spending money, how exactly are you stimulating the economy when people are keeping their checks locked up in banks waiting for better days to come?(post pandemic).
Economics are pretty much speculative, but this is a clear recipe for inflation and I suggest you read more about it before you claim thats what your country needs.

The core inflation rate is 1.6% right now. The Fed's target for the health of the economy is 2%. And the poor only get harmed by inflation if their wages don't rise commensurately, hence the need to increase minimum wage. Not even going to get into the ridiculous Fox News talking point about unearned capital...good grief. Look up food insecurity rates in the US before you suggest people are hoarding wealth.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I just want to know why politics is being brought up in so many football threads these days and why the hell someone supporting trump or not brings any sort of relevance to the discussion. @TheMagicFoolBus why did you even have to mention trump ?

I don't fecking know, it was very stupid though and I very much regret it.

 

[BlueHaze]

I don't fecking know, it was very stupid though and I very much regret it.

Alright no problem then. Just please you and anyone else reading this, i don't wanna open up football threads and see the name of trump, biden steven segal or whoever..

 

[Ecstatic]

I mean you're just regurgitating talking points from conservative media regarding economics. You don't seem to understand how US monetary policy actually works or what is or isn't important - inflation is certainly not a problem that even should be on anyone's radar right now. If anything we want more inflation at the moment.

A massive inflation (revenues/costs) is the best solution to deleverage economies and screw debt holders only if revenues also go up...

 

[Ecstatic]

Alright no problem then. Just please you and anyone else reading this, i don't wanna open up football threads and see the name of trump, biden steven segal or whoever..

You know that some fields like Politics, Economics and Football are interconnected.

 

[Mount's Goatieson]

You know that some fields like Politics, Economics and Football are interconnected.

I do agree that it's pointless in here really. I'm just exhausted from the constant denigration of Trump the the treatment of his supporters and Republicans at large. It's getting tiresome.