Surveillance Draft - R1- OneNil vs Gio

[antohan]

Oh boy, that's brutal. Midfield superiority out of the window?

I sensed either him or Messi were gone after Gio hurried to highlight what had happened in the first half hour.

So, Hidetoshi Nakata... those japanese guys are very hardworking, but both Gerrard and Messi are better off here, while the defence looks more composed.

Mmmm...

 

[antohan]

Who were the other two subs @oneniltothearsenal ?

 

[Gio]

I suppose he also had Graeme Le Saux, who was decent enough in the 1990s.

Speaking of Le Saux, this is what he had to say on Mr Laudrup:

This is a question that made me realise the level I managed to achieve in the sport. So many world class players (a phrase I don't use lightly) and I competed against them. Zidane, Figo, Raul, Henry, Bergkamp, Hagi, Stoichkov, both Ronaldos, Maldini to name but a few. My toughest opponent would be between Figo for Portugal and Brian Laudrup for Denmark.

 

[Raees]

Changed my vote for now - sorry @oneniltothearsenal

 

[harms]

Nakata - Henry is a proven partnership though

 

[antohan]

I suppose he also had Graeme Le Saux, who was decent enough in the 1990s.

Speaking of Le Saux, this is what he had to say on Mr Laudrup:

kudos to @oneniltothearsenal for the switch then. You've been working the case for that flank all along and now have the need to pointlessly throwaway the dirtdigging gems.

He may yet make that switch tbh. Personally, I think this is a good first switch. In game you wouldn't want to potentially open another front. Keep the defence sturdy and settled and see how the midfield pans out (i.e. keep the problem as far away from goal as possible).

 

[antohan]

Nakata - Henry is a proven partnership though

Didn't they win it? Or reach the final at least?

 

[harms]

Didn't they win it? Or reach the final at least?

Yeah, they beat the monstrous Ronaldo - Carlos - Figo team iirc

 

[antohan]

Yeah, they beat the monstrous Ronaldo - Carlos - Figo team iirc

Pfft, there you go. Cafú and Cannavaro are in trouble here.

 

[bleezy]

Ouch. Was about to say I really like that diamond from one-nil, but the injury has changed it and my vote. Mascherano in the DM worked really well with the other players in front I thought. I liked Nakata as a player, but the side has definitely lost the balance which made me vote for it initially.

Danger with Gio's side is that it's prone to being countered against. But the attack is pretty great and should find more space now the sub's been made.

 

[antohan]

Mmmmm... unless there's other known injuries @oneniltothearsenal should consider subbing Nakata for Le Saux.

Let's face it, Maldini-Ferdinand with Mascherano shielding is impenetrable.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

The main mismatch here is really the Caniggia-Maicon supported by Medieta flank up against Felipe Luis and Naybet. Felipe Luis is really outclassed at this level and is going to get burnt by Caniggia alot and will require a lot of help from Naybet. With Maicon and Mendieta supporting Caniggia here and taking advantage of that mismatch I see that being a major route to goal.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Mmmmm... unless there's other known injuries @oneniltothearsenal should consider subbing Nakata for Le Saux.

Let's face it, Maldini-Ferdinand with Mascherano shielding is impenetrable.

Aye, at this stage I don't see the logic in bringing on Nakata instead of Le Saux.

 

[Raees]

Did le saux play with rio in England squad

 

[Cutch]

Sorry Gio buddy, even with El Piojo and Messi my gut feeling is a narrow win for OneNil. Brilliant side he's drafted

 

[antohan]

Did le saux play with rio in England squad

He did actually, a young Rio made the 1998 bench.

 

[Gio]

The main mismatch here is really the Caniggia-Maicon supported by Medieta flank up against Felipe Luis and Naybet. Felipe Luis is really outclassed at this level and is going to get burnt by Caniggia alot and will require a lot of help from Naybet. With Maicon and Mendieta supporting Caniggia here and taking advantage of that mismatch I see that being a major route to goal.

Nah, Filipe Luis is anything but outclassed. He's the most defensively robust left-back since Cole was in his hey-day a decade ago. His performances for Atletico in recent seasons as part of that incredible defensive unit have been outstanding. I'd particularly pick out what he did for Atletico in last year's Champions League, man of the match in shutting out Barcelona in the Vicente Calderon up against Lionel Messi no less. Sorry Caniggia as much as I rate you, but you're simply not in that class. In the CL since 2013/14 they've faced Bayern twice, Barcelona twice, Real Madrid, Juventus and Chelsea, and none of them managed a single goal between them at the Vicente Calderon.

 

[Gio]

Post-injury and change, I'm even more convinced that we will take control of the midfield. Two central midfielders in the mix for Ballon D'Ors at their peak, who were massively influential in their club sides winning the European Cup, along with the best holding midfielder of the 2000s - all of that presents a lot of quality. Nakata and Marchisio aren't mugs, but they're frankly not good enough to hold out here.

And who closes down Cafu? He's got a free highway ahead of him, motoring down that flank like a Brazilian steam-train. Nakata won't offer any meaningful resistance, Henry's too laissez-faire to chase him back. He'll be an extra option compounding our advantage presenting an extra line to the attack and nailing down our dominance of the match.

 

[Snow]

It's hard to vote against Messi when he's got good players with good movement around him and a good defense with Makelele in front of them to cover for his lack of defensive involvement. Basically the only thing you need are quick full backs who can go forward, good CB's and a good DMC and the rest will take care of itself with Messi pulling the strings.

To me in order to counter that side you need a top notch defend and midfield, ON has a top notch defense but the midfield is OK, and very clinical forwards which Caniggia isn't.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

And who closes down Cafu? He's got a free highway ahead of him, motoring down that flank like a Brazilian steam-train.

If Cafu is blitzing forward then Henry is going to murder your backline on the counter like the gifs I was able to create. By that logic who closes down Maicon? Who closes down Mendieta?

You still have only one predictable path towards goal and that is Messi who still has to deal with Ferdinand, Mascherano and Maldini.

 

[antohan]

why do you quote Gio and it says it's my post?

Weird

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Mistake i fixed it

 

[Gio]

If Cafu is blitzing forward then Henry is going to murder your backline on the counter like the gifs I was able to create..

Modern football doesn't see full-backs stay back all the time. It's far more fluent than that. Full-backs go forward and join the play, central midfielder(s) sit and form a solid base behind the ball. That's standard practice and it only seems to be in drafts that this parallel universe emerges where the full-backs have to stay behind the ball like some rigid back four from the black-and-white era.

If Cafu is forward, then Cannavaro, Naybet, Filipe Luis and Makelele will all be back to deal with Henry and Caniggia. Plenty of cover and common-sense stuff.

 

[antohan]

It's hard to vote against Messi when he's got good players with good movement around him and a good defense with Makelele in front of them to cover for his lack of defensive involvement. Basically the only thing you need are quick full backs who can go forward, good CB's and a good DMC and the rest will take care of itself with Messi pulling the strings.

To me in order to counter that side you need a top notch defend and midfield, ON has a top notch defense but the midfield is OK, and very clinical forwards which Caniggia isn't.

Agree Caniggia isn't clinical, more a player with great movement and a scorer of important goals.

But I can see OneNil's front three working very well and Caniggia, in particular, being a good foil to drag defenders and create space for Maicon or Litmanen to receive Mendieta's incisive passes.

 

[Snow]

Agree Caniggia isn't clinical, more a player with great movement and a scorer of important goals.

But I can see OneNil's front three working very well and Caniggia, in particular, being a good foil to drag defenders and create space for Maicon or Litmanen to receive Mendieta's incisive passes.

Cavani is also a player with excellent movement but I wouldn't necessarily think this team would be better with him there even though he scores a lot more than Caniggia. But since he drafted him he might be better off playing him or else we might see the first ever red card in a Caf draft and off the bench no less.

 

[antohan]

Cavani is also a player with excellent movement but I wouldn't necessarily think this team would be better with him there even though he scores a lot more than Caniggia. But since he drafted him he might be better off playing him or else we might see the first ever red card in a Caf draft and off the bench no less.

Ah, you missed the reds in the Monopoly semis I gather.

That 2002 tourno, so bloody pointless, makes him clash with a great Argie vintage.

 

[Gio]

A wee flavour of what Laudrup brings to the table:

Spoiler: Laudrup against Maldini

Spoiler: Laudrup against Rijkaard

Spoiler: Laudrup against Tony Adams

 

[Snow]

Ah, you missed the reds in the Monopoly semis I gather.

That 2002 tourno, so bloody pointless, makes him clash with a great Argie vintage.

My reference had already been done do death? I though I was being clever but of course R&D has already been through this

 

[Snow]

A wee flavour of what Laudrup brings to the table:

Spoiler: Laudrup against Maldini

Spoiler: Laudrup against Rijkaard

Spoiler: Laudrup against Tony Adams

I wrote an essay about BLaudrup in Danish class when I was about 16. Used to be my favorite player which is hardly fair on ON in my regard. Those brothers were so huge for Denmark and he really took the mantle during Michael's time off from the NT.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Modern football.... Plenty of cover and common-sense stuff.

You just answered your own question about who closes down Cafu

 

[Gio]

You just answered your own question about who closes down Cafu

I suppose that's one of the inherent flaws in the diamond formation is the lack of width and failure to adequately deal with opposition full backs. It's fine if I had someone like Raul Albiol lumbering around there, less so if I've got arguably the greatest attacking right-back of all time exploiting it. Now damage could be reduced if you had a central left-sided shuttler and defensive machine like Edgar Davids covering across, less so an attacking midfielder ill suited to such a gig. So fundamentally you have a system weak at dealing with opposition full backs and a worst case scenario in terms of the players on the park to mitigate such a situation.

 

[Gio]

Also @oneniltothearsenal I have stuck a vote in to see the score if you wish to do the same.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I suppose that's one of the inherent flaws in the diamond formation is the lack of width and failure to adequately deal with opposition full backs. It's fine if I had someone like Raul Albiol lumbering around there, less so if I've got arguably the greatest attacking right-back of all time exploiting it. Now damage could be reduced if you had a central left-sided shuttler and defensive machine like Edgar Davids covering across, less so an attacking midfielder ill suited to such a gig. So fundamentally you have a system weak at dealing with opposition full backs and a worst case scenario in terms of the players on the park to mitigate such a situation.

No surprise I disagree with your opinion. It just doesn't apply to my side which flows together much better than you imply and takes that into account. Cafu bombs forward at wrong moment and Henry has happy days on counter. Mendieta and Marchisio were absolutely perfect for their roles. Mendieta is ideally suited to his role. Marchisio is exactly a left side shuttler. No way at all would my side be "weak to full backs". Even Nakata is strong, quick, hard working and perfectly comfortable shuttling out. My team is build around team defense from the start and it just wouldn't play out in isolations as you imply.

The reverse applies as well. You conveniently ignore Maicon who is going to boss that flank and try to avoid mentioning that Maldini is even on the pitch. Additionally Gerrard is just clearly the squarest peg for round holes on the entire pitch and really does not flow with your team at all. Can see his selfishness leading to a lot of great counter attacks chances for my team.

I am heading off to bed so good game however it ends up.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Some final gifs for me

Spoiler: Maicon match winner

Spoiler: Mendieta creativity and skill

Spoiler: Marchisio can set up Caniggia for quick counters like this all day

Spoiler: Caniggia skills on fast counter

Spoiler: Litmanen can set up Henry like this

 

[Physiocrat]

60 mins injury update- no injuries

 

[Gio]

No surprise I disagree with your opinion. It just doesn't apply to my side which flows together much better than you imply and takes that into account. Cafu bombs forward at wrong moment and Henry has happy days on counter. Mendieta and Marchisio were absolutely perfect for their roles. Mendieta is ideally suited to his role. Marchisio is exactly a left side shuttler. No way at all would my side be "weak to full backs". Even Nakata is strong, quick, hard working and perfectly comfortable shuttling out. My team is build around team defense from the start and it just wouldn't play out in isolations as you imply.

Mendieta is a good fit on the right side of the diamond. Nakata is a poor fit. Especially in a counter-based set-up. And Marchisio holding the midfield is a poorer fit still. Marchisio isn't an anchor and Nakata isn't a central midfield shuttler. From 30-75 minutes you've had the two weakest players on the park in Marchisio and Nakata fulfilling jobs they aren't suited to doing. Messi, Gerrard and Cafu should all be bossing things given the relative lack of resistance there.

The reverse applies as well. You conveniently ignore Maicon who is going to boss that flank and try to avoid mentioning that Maldini is even on the pitch. Additionally Gerrard is just clearly the squarest peg for round holes on the entire pitch and really does not flow with your team at all. Can see his selfishness leading to a lot of great counter attacks chances for my team

I can't see Maicon bossing that flank at all. Firstly good player though he was, in the context of this match, he's basically a watered down version of Cafu, and secondly Claudio Lopez will cover any runs he makes. Lopez played for Hector Cuper's Valencia, often at left-midfield, and Cuper was a stickler for defensive work-rate from all of his players. I'm quite happy for Lopez to cover Maicon's runs, all the while still offering this level of threat going forward. Especially getting on the end of Messi's through balls.

 

[Gio]

With little meaningful resistance, these are the sort of regular inroads Cafu should be making in this match:

 

[Enigma_87]

With little meaningful resistance, these are the sort of regular inroads Cafu should be making in this match:

Isn't Maldini still on the pitch? He'd offer a lot of ressistance if you ask me

With Ramos limping off it creates some problems for onenil. Marchisio and Mascherano are still fine with their new roles(Barca's Masch), the only question mark is Nakata working in that diamond.

 

[Gio]

Isn't Maldini still on the pitch? He'd offer a lot of ressistance if you ask me

With Ramos limping off it creates some problems for onenil. Marchisio and Mascherano are still fine with their new roles(Barca's Masch), the only question mark is Nakata working in that diamond.

Well Maldini is part of the defensive line and is likely to be tied up with Laudrup. I'm sure he can come out and press Cafu, but that then leaves Laudrup and Messi being dealt with by Ferdinand and Mascherano with no actual cover, which is always a bit risky. Either way Cafu will have overloaded the midfield and be joining the attack before Maldini can do anything meaningful IMO. And that's on the weak side of the midfield with Nakata there.

 

[diarm]

Tight margins here and the injury has a big impact on the game. I can see Messi, Gerrard and Cafu flourishing in this system and winning it for Gio. Good game though!