Surveillance Draft R1: P-Nut vs Tuppet

[Physiocrat]

P-Nut

Goalkeeper: Handonovic
Right Centre Back: Puyol - Destroyer
Centre Back: Barzagli - Ball Playing Centre Back
Left Centre Back: Garay - Destroyer
Defensive Midfielder: Carrick - Deep Lying Playmaker
Right Central Midfielder: Keane - Box to Box Midfielder
Left Central Midfielder: Vieira - Box to Box Midfielder
Attacking Midfielder: Rui Costa - Advanced Playmaker (Free Role)
Right Wing: Basler - Traditional Winger
Left Wing: Ginola - Inside Forward
Striker: Drogba - Target Man

Tactics -
Quick Transitions
Power through midfield
Counter Attack

Tuppet

Tactic:
Formation - Lopsided 4-2-3-1
Defense line - High

I am playing 4-2-3-1 formation. Ibrahimovic would be a leading the line as a complete forward. Ibra is a rare mix of a target man and a creative striker, of physicality and technique. With his deadly finishing he would put away most of chances that my midfield would create for him. But he is also more than capable of creating chances for himself & Forlan and I would fancy this duo to generally get better of P-nut's defenders. Forlan would be playing as left sided free roaming forward, with a view to occupy the opposition's penalty area when Ibra drops deep. Luis Enrique provides relentless energy and creativity on the right side.

At the center of it all is my playmaker and the best player on the pitch - Zidane. There is not much to say about him that every football fan doesn't already know. He would shine here, as he is well supported by hardworking players such as Ince, Shweini, Forlan and Enrique and has two lethal finisher in Forlan and Ibrahimovic to convert chances he creates. Schweinsteiger would be in his usual box to box complete midfielder role, while Ince would be most defensive midfielder keeping tabs on Rui Costa.

In center of defense is the complementary partnership of Stam and Bonucci. While both are complete defenders, obviously Stam would be more of a stopper, dealing with Drogba's ariel threat and Bonucci would be ball playing defender. Leonardo would be the attacking wing back on the left, providing width on that side. While Panucci would be more balanced on the right side. Both are perfect for their jobs as Leonardo was a burgeoning wing back, starting over a young Roberto Carlos in 94 world cup win. While Panucci was a defensively solid fullback, who was comfortable playing as a CB as well. Finally the defense is secured at the back by Petr Cech, who is one of the best GK premier league has seen, still holding the clean sheet record with an astonishing 170 clean sheets in 352 games.

Why would I win:
1. Fantastic creativity in my side that can't be shut down, Zidane is the most creative player obviously, but Ibra, Enrique, Schweinsteiger, Leonardo & Bonucci are all capable of putting great passes and through balls.

2. I have better defense, starting with better goalkeeper and a more complementary CB partnership. But also my fullbacks are much better in their positions, while p-nut is most likely playing CBs in the fullback position.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Tuppet @P-Nut0712

Game on!

 

[P-Nut]

Cheers @Physiocrat

Good luck @Tuppet

Couple of points to make.

Tuppet set his team up believing I'd be playing full backs and this has worked in my favour. Forlan isn't going to provide much width and will constantly be wanting to come inside, straight towards Puyol.

Luis Enrique is slightly withdrawn from the modern winger type and so my defence can stay nice and compact.

The diamond in midfield means I've got an extra player in the centre of the park.
Tuppet has Ince picking up Rui Costa which leaves one of Keane or Vieira free to maraud up and down the park untracked.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

such a lucky draw for p-nut and unlucky for tuppy....player wise, tuppet has the upper hand but pnut has the tactical advantage IMO
Such a strange system but in some way the perfect answer for this opposition, can see this being an even game with one break from pnut side. Its a pretty narrow system from tuppet(only Leonardo that offers proper width) and there is nothing wrong with it(can work without any problems) but then you see the other team with defensive mastermind on DM shielded by two beast in Keane and Vieira.
Have two questions about Juventus duo. Dont watch them enough but i thought that Bonucci plays the role that Barzagli has in pnuts team and + have few question marks about Bonucci as well, no doubt he is fantastic in back 3 but how good is he in back 4? Dont think i even heard of him before they switched to the back 3 at Juve.
Garay is pretty crap but in a defensive minded system with so many bodies around him it just might work, it helps that he is against Ibra who i dont rate at this level.

 

[Raees]

Really tight game this. I don't see many goals being scored here because even midfield battle and neither of the attacks scream goals to me in this match up as both defenses look fine.

I think it is as simple as Zidane deciding it with a moment of magic because I don't rate Carrick as being able to keep a maestro like that quiet.

 

[P-Nut]

@Šjor Bepo yeah Bonnuci usually does play in Barzagli' roles in my team however I wanted someone in the middle that is used to organising a back 3 as it's quite a nuanced system and I didn't think asking someone that has only played in a 4 man defence to be the one marshalling it.

@Raees I think Tuppet will agree that his 2 midfielders behind Zidane are more focused on defence. That means with Keane and Vieira working up and down the pitch it is unlikely that Carrick will ever have to deal with Zidane alone and should always have help by 2 players with the work rate to make it and success.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Its a pretty narrow system from tuppet(only Leonardo that offers proper width) and there is nothing wrong with it(can work without any problems) but then you see the other team with defensive mastermind on DM shielded by two beast in Keane and Vieira.

Panucci's role is described as balanced, not defensive, surely he'll link well with Lucha. With P-Nut playing back 3 without wingbacks, I give a massive advantage to Tuppet in this wing. I give this game to Tuppet as Lucha will consistently operate wider and pull defenders out. This is Lucha's game!

 

[harms]

Very strange back three from P-Nut. Garay should be in the center and I'd put Puyol on the left, he played there sometimes for Barca, even though less than on the right.
Also Vieira won't be too happy with a new name.

Tuppet's attack looks strange, can't see it working from the first glance but there is something here, I will keep envisioning.

 

[Tuppet]

Best of luck @P-Nut0712

 

[Tuppet]

You got an interesting system there p-nut, I did consider that you might play it as you don't have FBs but thought that you don't have players for this system either. Basically neither Vieira nor Keane are known to cover wide areas. Now to play 3-4-3 like this, without any full backs you would usually need very hard working wide midfielders who can track back to provide defensive support, which is a far cry from someone like Ginola who was as lazy as they come. This means especially on the left side, Enrique + Panucci would face Garay without much support and that is not going to end well. Luis Enrique is a Barcelona legend who scored 46 goals in his first 3 seasons and was Spanish player of the year in 96, while Garay is the weakest player on the pitch, thats the biggest mismatch IMO.

 

[Tuppet]

have few question marks about Bonucci as well, no doubt he is fantastic in back 3 but how good is he in back 4? Dont think i even heard of him before they switched to the back 3 at Juve.

The only time I know he played in a back 4 was when he was in Bari, forming an excellent partnership with Ranocchia. It was so good that before Ranocchia got injured, Bari had the best defensive record in the league. This is what prompted a host of clubs getting interested in Bonucci and finally Juve picking him up.

Edit: This was a bit of usual mad season speculation linking a lot of Premier league clubs with him - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/leonardo-bonucci.291387/

 

[antohan]

PNut's system was predictable given his picks. Not entirely convinced, but Tuppet doesn't exploit it and his lopsidedness is more than he intends. Clisterfeck in the insideleft channel imo.

 

[Enigma_87]

I like Tuppet's team and formation. Seems more straightforward. Probably Forlan and Ibra is not the best pair up front especially with Zidane behind Ibra. Schweini/Ince is good pair and dynamic.

Leonardo is not the best LB(would provide some width on the left in attack tho) but the rest of the defence is pretty solid.

P-nut offered a pretty interesting formation and there is much to like in it - Ginola off Drogba and Rui Costa/Carrick pulling the strings from #10 and deep. Vieira and Keane is a great midfield duo, but for me not so in a diamond. I'm not so particularly fond of Basler and Garay.

At the moment I'm leaning towards Tuppet, I can see his team working and scoring more goals than the opposition. Probably what P-nut can improve (if there are injuries) is really Basler/Ginola (subbing Basler for more industrious wide man) or some putting on some wingbacks in that 3-4-3 formation. Garay should be on the right as well I agree with harms.

Vieira and Keane are not optimal covering the flanks and Basler and Ginola both don't provide cover for the defenders.

 

[bleezy]

Not a big fan of Keane and Vieira in a diamond. Both are perfect 442/4411 men. But I'm also not sure of Tuppet's system,. A bit more orthodox with Leonardo at left wing, and a proper left back would work much better. At the moment I can't really call it, probably leaning towards P-nut overpowering the midfield and not truly being exposed in the back line. I will wait to see how it develops.

Drogba up against Stam would be a proper battle. I would love to see that.

 

[P-Nut]

For those suggest Garay should be on the right I'll admit the thought did cross my mind, however I wanted both Puyol and Barzagli in the positions they are in.

I want the defence to stay compact and narrow so having a right footer on the left isn't too bad as he would be stronger at defending the inside channel.

As for Keane and Vieira playing in a diamond I think it works perfectly. Granted they aren't traditional used to covering the flanks but give them an area of the pitch to marshall and take control of and there can be no doubt they'd fulfil it for you.

On to my flanks. Basler is there to stretch the pitch, stay wide and deliver crosses to Drogba.
Ginola will play slightly more on the inside channel looking to play 1-2s with Drogba and link up with Rui Costa. He isn't expected to track back as some people have mentioned but rather give the right back a dilemma. Does he go forward and leave Ginola free or does he reign himself in and stay with him.

Obviously the two playmakers are there to dictate play and shift the ball quickly forwards to counter the opponent with Keane and Vieira bursting forward.

 

[Moby]

I think it is as simple as Zidane deciding it with a moment of magic because I don't rate Carrick as being able to keep a maestro like that quiet.

Probably true in a 1v1 but then you have to consider that he has two of the best midfield generals of the generation (ergo, this draft) covering that space and then you remember Keane completely destroying a midfield that had a peak Zidane, with peak Davids and Deschamps next to him. Carrick's tactical awareness and intelligence itself is going to be a hard nut to crack but with that midfield next to him it's a completely different ball game.

 

[Moby]

Vieira and Keane are not optimal covering the flanks and Basler and Ginola both don't provide cover for the defenders.

Yeah I said so in the main thread and I don't usually like in a diamond but here you can have Carrick dropping into defense when needed and making it narrow back four shielded by Keane and Vieira which is hardly an issue considering they aren't really facing any real width. Tuppet himself hughlighted Lucho's goal record which is accomplished by attacking the goal at the right time and not traditional wing play. Similarly Forlan is going to attack the central areas than hugging the touchline. It all seems to be covered well in my opinion.

 

[Raees]

Probably true in a 1v1 but then you have to consider that he has two of the best midfield generals of the generation (ergo, this draft) covering that space and then you remember Keane completely destroying a midfield that had a peak Zidane, with peak Davids and Deschamps next to him. Carrick's tactical awareness and intelligence itself is going to be a hard nut to crack but with that midfield next to him it's a completely different ball game.

I agree for the most part that in theory that with that level of B2B support, Carrick should be fine. My issue is that he needs them badly to provide width of some sort as Ginola is up against a solid RB in Panucci, if Ginola has a great game.. fine but assuming it is a even battle, Viera would need to go wide to support in attack, which would leave it as just Keano and Carrick against a Zidane, who whilst he might be stopped 9 times out of 10.. that 10th time, he can leave them both confused and win himself a free-kick.. or just pull out some moment of magic. Whereas I see Rui Costa being nullified against Ince and Schweini totally.

Talking margins here though. In all honesty I see this game as a goalless draw as I do think all avenues are covered. When two teams are in a tactical stalement, I usually go for the team with that bit more unpredictability and magic in its ranks.

 

[P-Nut]

Just to let people know I'm voting for myself so I can see the score

 

[Enigma_87]

Yeah I said so in the main thread and I don't usually like in a diamond but here you can have Carrick dropping into defense when needed and making it narrow back four shielded by Keane and Vieira which is hardly an issue considering they aren't really facing any real width. Tuppet himself hughlighted Lucho's goal record which is accomplished by attacking the goal at the right time and not traditional wing play. Similarly Forlan is going to attack the central areas than hugging the touchline. It all seems to be covered well in my opinion.

I think that's the biggest issue Tuppet is facing here - how well will that unit cover the inside left and how well Leonardo will provide width on the left and support to the attack as he's the only natural wide man on that flank.

Not a biggie but IMO Schweini and Ince should be switched.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

A game like this would often be won in the middle of the park, and Keane and vieira is a fearsome combination that I think makes mince meat of tuppets midfield.

 

[Gio]

To be frank I didn't see the point in Pnut getting Carrick. He's not really adding much that isn't covered and bettered by Rui Costa, Keane and Vieira. In this game another body in there is probably useful though, insofar as Tuppet is likely to have a lot going on inbetween Forlan (who will naturally cut in), Zidane (who will naturally drift into the inside-left channel) and Ibrahimovic (whose natural game is to drop into the hole). There's a lot of quality there, but should be easy to defend against given the lack of play-stretchers there. Tuppet's main weapon IMO is Luis Enrique who should make mincemeat of an exposed Garay.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Panucci's role is described as balanced, not defensive, surely he'll link well with Lucha. With P-Nut playing back 3 without wingbacks, I give a massive advantage to Tuppet in this wing. I give this game to Tuppet as Lucha will consistently operate wider and pull defenders out. This is Lucha's game!

His role can be balanced but it wont turn Panucci into an wide outlet IMO
Enrique is fantastic but he is at his best when he has freedom to play where ever he wants in the final third and not the role where he should stay out wide to open space for the likes of Zidane, Ibra and Forlan. If that team had proper classic winger in his position and Lucha played in stead of Forlan then i would say and agree with you that it really is Lucha's game

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Enrique is fantastic but he is at his best when he has freedom to play where ever he wants in the final third and not the role where he should stay out wide to open space for the likes of Zidane, Ibra and Forlan.

I doubt he's restricted in any fashion. Zidane tends to drift inside left and that leaves so much space for him to operate in the middle too. But in this game, him operating out wide is not to open space for Zidane....but simple because he practically has no opposition there. He'll own that flank.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I doubt he's restricted in any fashion. Zidane tends to drift inside left and that leaves so much space for him to operate in the middle too. But in this game, him operating out wide is not to open space for Zidane....but simple because he practically has no opposition there. He'll own that flank.

He probably isnt but from what i can imagine pnut will sit deep and defend in numbers, central areas will be clogged with players so he will need to stay out wide to stay involved and help to restore some balance on the pitch. It certainly wont be the best use of Lucha, at least in my opinion.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I wasn't really fond of Vieira (whose name seems hard for some to spell and Keane in a diamond. but against Tuppet's personnel and formation, I think it plays right into PNut's strengths. I can't see Zidane having much influence here. Jammed in between Vieira and Keane seems like the worst possible situation for Zizou to be in to get the best out of him. I just don't see it this match. At the same time I PNut's side doesn't really stand out with the firepower to break through Tuppet either. I visualize a stalemate here in the first 30 minutes of the match.

 

[Raees]

When does the injury stuff start kicking in.. will want to possibly change my vote because of that.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

When does the injury stuff start kicking in.. will want to possibly change my vote because of that.

I think its 8 hrs and 16 hrs? @Physiocrat

 

[P-Nut]

When does the injury stuff start kicking in.. will want to possibly change my vote because of that.

About 3 hours from now.

 

[Raees]

About 3 hours from now.

Cool, will you tag all the managers and draft regulars when it happens.

 

[Moby]

Tuppet's main weapon IMO is Luis Enrique who should make mincemeat of an exposed Garay.

I doubt he's restricted in any fashion. Zidane tends to drift inside left and that leaves so much space for him to operate in the middle too. But in this game, him operating out wide is not to open space for Zidane....but simple because he practically has no opposition there. He'll own that flank.

I agree that in terms of individual quality that's a great mismatch but Lucho isn't a wide player who will isolate his defender and drag him out. His majority of the work is done off the ball and mainly in central goalscoring areas, which requires marking and positioning mainly.

But yea as far as quality goes on paper that's a mismatch.

 

[mazhar13]

I was about to echo similar sentiments here. Lucho will cause havoc with him being pretty much the main outlet for Tuppet's side. Having said that, though, he was more about his movement, positioning, and finishing rather than his dribbling and ability to stretch the pitch. His energy levels and versatility are what made him who he was, so even though he will have a key role to play for Tuppet, I still don't see him as being that key.

For me, it seems like a stalemate at the moment. Both teams lack width, and there's too much congestion for both teams to really do much damage with, so we'll see how the injuries will impact this match.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Not going to vote until the injuries kick in as this is a very tight match. Tuppet has more quality in attack but Pnut looks well-suited to suffocating the opposition through the centre. I wasn't keen on Keane and Vieira in a diamond initially but thinking about the younger pre-peak version of Keane would be brilliant in that role IMO. Any thoughts about using that version of Keane rather than the 1998-2001 incarnation @P-Nut0712 ? Slightly concerned about Pnut's goal threat - Drogba blew hot and cold as a goalscorer across his career for an elite striker, and other than Basler at Werder Bremen the supporting cast weren't particularly prolific for their respective positions. There's probably enough goals spread around the team there though. Edging towards Pnut here, but I'll wait and see how the injuries affect things.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I was about to echo similar sentiments here. Lucho will cause havoc with him being pretty much the main outlet for Tuppet's side. Having said that, though, he was more about his movement, positioning, and finishing rather than his dribbling and ability to stretch the pitch. His energy levels and versatility are what made him who he was, so even though he will have a key role to play for Tuppet, I still don't see him as being that key.

For me, it seems like a stalemate at the moment. Both teams lack width, and there's too much congestion for both teams to really do much damage with, so we'll see how the injuries will impact this match.

I don't think Pnut lacks attacking width, with Ginola as one of the purest wingers in the draft, and one of Basler's standout qualities being his delivery from wide areas.

 

[P-Nut]

Not going to vote until the injuries kick in as this is a very tight match. Tuppet has more quality in attack but Pnut looks well-suited to suffocating the opposition through the centre. I wasn't keen on Keane and Vieira in a diamond initially but thinking about the younger pre-peak version of Keane would be brilliant in that role IMO. Any thoughts about using that version of Keane rather than the 1998-2001 incarnation @P-Nut0712 ? Slightly concerned about Pnut's goal threat - Drogba blew hot and cold as a goalscorer across his career for an elite striker, and other than Basler at Werder Bremen the supporting cast weren't particularly prolific for their respective positions. There's probably enough goals spread around the team there though. Edging towards Pnut here, but I'll wait and see how the injuries affect things.

I've got Keane as peak at the moment. I'm expecting his all action, taking no backwards step, in your face Keane. Him and Vieira prowling that midfield would strike fear into any opponent so I feel good about using Keane at his peak.

 

[P-Nut]

I don't think Pnut lacks attacking width, with Ginola as one of the purest wingers in the draft, and one of Basler's standout qualities being his delivery from wide areas.

Can't agree more with this and it's the reason that Basler was chosen. It's hard to find videos of his delivery from open play but lots are out there of his free kicks and corners which highlights his delivery technique.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I've got Keane as peak at the moment. I'm expecting his all action, taking no backwards step, in your face Keane. Him and Vieira prowling that midfield would strike fear into any opponent so I feel good about using Keane at his peak.

Fair enough mate. I do feel that the younger Keane is better suited to that side midfielder role, and with Carrick and Rui Costa already there to orchestrate there;s less overlap with that version also, but peak Keane at his absolute peak is hard to pass up on.

Can't agree more with this and it's the reason that Basler was chosen. It's hard to find videos of his delivery from open play but lots are out there of his free kicks and corners which highlights his delivery technique.

Aye, Skizzo and I picked Basler in a previous draft and I was surprised at how little good footage there was on youtube. There's a good few full matches knocking around but you'd expect it to be easier to pluck out footage of such a recent player.

 

[Tuppet]

I think not just in this game but in drafts in general we (including me at times) get too pedantic and rigid about width. Lucho not able to play wide right and would not punish Garay? and just because he was versatile and can play through center or left as well doesn't mean that he would not do it on the right. I agree that I don't have any chalk on the boots winger but it does not mean my attack does not have any width. I think if its upto us players like Neymar, Martial, Mata, Silva etc would never play in wide positions.

Anyway here are two examples Lucho scoring from right side, and there are countless examples of him working both the outside and inside right channels -

Spoiler: Against Arsenal a defense of Tony Adams, Keown, Winterburn and Dixon

Spoiler: Against Atletico madrid

Also the impact of fullbacks in attack should be taken into account as well. In modern game especially the fullbacks are primary outlets to provide width which is why we don't just play center backs in full back positions. In Leonardo and Panucci I have two fantastic full backs who would run up and down the pitch providing width. And finally there are Forlan and Zidane who are both comfortable on the left side, I don't see how my attack lacks any width.

 

[harms]

Don't get the criticism of Lucho either. His off the ball movement will be a big plus, same with Forlan (although Lucho is better out wide). The main problem is Ibra-Zidane, but it's still a more potent attack than Drogba single-handily battling off Stam (although with a great supporting unit), especially considering a ill-fitted back 3

 

[Annahnomoss]

Don't get the criticism of Lucho either. His off the ball movement will be a big plus, same with Forlan (although Lucho is better out wide). The main problem is Ibra-Zidane, but it's still a more potent attack than Drogba single-handily battling off Stam (although with a great supporting unit), especially considering a ill-fitted back 3

I think so too. Lucho and Forlan will be a threat out wide and just because they aren't ideally suited doesn't mean they can't provide any width at all especially with the help of their full backs and being up against nothing of a wide defense. Vieira isn't going to defend out wide, neither is Keane and it leaves Puyol and Garay alone. This would be the easiest game in Vieira and Keanes life, basically have Rui Costa and Carrick providing the playmaking and creativity with Ginola and Basler out wide. But surely as the stand-outs of the team they should be the most exposed and the ones who need to perform miracles, not that back three.