Surveillance Draft - R1 - VivaEAP vs Downcast

Who would win?

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .

Ecstatic

Cutie patootie!
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
13,787
Supports
PsG
I hope I will get the award of the Best Manager since

- Ayala & Bierhoff played together
- Xabi Alonso & Kaka played together
- Candela & the GK Barthez played together

My initial plan was to have Xabi Alonso as the official provider of long balls for fast players like Kaka & Eto'o. :D


Tactical change sent to @Physiocrat
 
Last edited:

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,444
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
Enigma_87 said:
Nah, don't get me wrong. IMO if it was something like this:

---------Eto'o---------
----Baggio----Kaka----

would be a lot better. Same personnel but different roles. In this way Baggio can drop back and receive the ball and be the main conductor but also have room on the left, while Kaka can make runs on the right also stretching the play.

That I can see working :)
Click to expand...
Quite coincidental that in the last No Mates draft me, @Pat_Mustard and @Skizzo built a 4-3-2-1 with Baggio and Eto'o on top (Thinking of that match always makes me cry :(). We did look at the previous teams which sported multiple AMs...and came to the conclusion that one of the AM's role is to drop back and conduct and the other will contribute to attack. So we went for Raymond Kopa to play the role he did in the great RM side freeing Gento/DiStefano to shine.

For example, take the two teams Downcast mentioned above, Juve of 1980s (Platini/Boniek) and Milan 2000s (Rui Costa/Kaka). Platini and Rui Costa are technically the free role players who dropped back to balance the attack of the other AM. Moreover both teams had stellar anchors in the midfield (Tardelli/Scirea and Gattuso/Seedorf) who will win the ball back, do the dirty work allowing the stars up ahead to shine.

As to current team, I'm not a big fan of Baggio dropping back as you say. He's not that type of player and frankly is a misuse of his skills.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,444
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
Downcast said:
I hope I will get the award of the Best Manager since

- Ayala & Bierhoff played together
- Xabi Alonso & Kaka played together
- Candela & the GK Barthez played together

My initial plan was to have Xabi Alonso as the official provider of long balls for fast players like Kaka & Eto'o. :D
Click to expand...


We're not any better having picked Sergi and Senna :)

Tbh, I was surprised when I saw your formation in the OP. Was really happy to see Camoranesi in that role against Overmars :D

Downcast said:
- Beckham (unpicked :() on the right.
Click to expand...
Becks was our first choice, but he played with Shearer in NT, so picked Pires.
 
Last edited:

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,444
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
This is a better formation from Downcast and similar to what we expected him to start with. Still it has a couple of flaws.
- With our wingers hovering, his fullbacks will be hard pressed to move up and contribute offensively without leaving the team vulnerable on the counter.
- The lack of width means he needs to focus centrally...Baggio and Brolin will be operating in same space as Cambiasso/Effenberg. It's gonna get very congested and the lack of space works in our favour.

As to our formation change:
- We've identified Candela as the weakest FB on pitch and expect Overmars to regularly get better off him. Faster better player.
- Downcast's changes put Frank de Boer on Shearer's side, which is another big advantage for us. Shearer is a monster in air and a brilliant header of the ball, something that De Boer will not be able to contain. Also with Overmars threatening the other side, De Boer is surely in trouble.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,654
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Quite coincidental that in the last No Mates draft me, @Pat_Mustard and @Skizzo built a 4-3-2-1 with Baggio and Eto'o on top (Thinking of that match always makes me cry :(). We did look at the previous teams which sported multiple AMs...and came to the conclusion that one of the AM's role is to drop back and conduct and the other will contribute to attack. So we went for Raymond Kopa to play the role he did in the great RM side freeing Gento/DiStefano to shine.

For example, take the two teams Downcast mentioned above, Juve of 1980s (Platini/Boniek) and Milan 2000s (Rui Costa/Kaka). Platini and Rui Costa are technically the free role players who dropped back to balance the attack of the other AM. Moreover both teams had stellar anchors in the midfield (Tardelli/Scirea and Gattuso/Seedorf) who will win the ball back, do the dirty work allowing the stars up ahead to shine.

As to current team, I'm not a big fan of Baggio dropping back as you say. He's not that type of player and frankly is a misuse of his skills.
Click to expand...
I loved that. I think I voted for you in that game. Hadn't thought of that but with Kopa is better indeed although probably I'd still have Rui Costa or someone like him instead of Kopa.

Baggio is not optimal either I agree, but you have to work with what you have and from the two of Kaka/Baggio probably the latter would be the better conductor in the side and can drop back, while Kaka is using his pace on the right, hence my suggestion. However Xabi from deep was a great change for downcast. Even with Brolin who is inferior to Kaka, he made his side a lot stronger and organized in this way.
 

Ecstatic

Cutie patootie!
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
13,787
Supports
PsG
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
This is a better formation from Downcast and similar to what we expected him to start with. Still it has a couple of flaws.
- With our wingers hovering, his fullbacks will be hard pressed to move up and contribute offensively without leaving the team vulnerable on the counter.
- The lack of width means he needs to focus centrally...Baggio and Brolin will be operating in same space as Cambiasso/Effenberg. It's gonna get very congested and the lack of space works in our favour.

As to our formation change:
- We've identified Candela as the weakest FB on pitch and expect Overmars to regularly get better off him. Faster better player.
- Downcast's changes put Frank de Boer on Shearer's side, which is another big advantage for us. Shearer is a monster in air and a brilliant header of the ball, something that De Boer will not be able to contain. Also with Overmars threatening the other side, De Boer is surely in trouble.
Click to expand...
I find ridiculous the argument saying I didn't have width with Kaka, Candela, Camoranesi, Brolin... not to mention the fact that Baggio also operated as left forward at his prime... as if it was mandatory to play with a contemporary 4-3-3 system or a 4-4-2 one to win trophies.

But I can't blame you for that because I used to say the same kind of things in the last drafts.

I don't know what to think about the Shearer-Luis Suarez complementarity tbh.

About Shearer the 'monster in the air':

- 1994 Netherlands 2-0 England. De Boer on the pitch and Shearer did nothing
- 1996 Netherlands 1-4 England. Shearer scored but Captain De Boer was injured during the whole tournament

If I did want to research about the confrontations between my offensive players and your second-class defensive players, it would be funny :)
 

oneniltothearsenal

Caf's Milton Friedman and Arse Aficionado
Scout
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
11,186
Supports
Brazil, Arsenal,LA Aztecs
Fascinating match. I really like how Downcast is making formation changes even without injury or did Kaka get injured? Either way its like a real tactical match where managers switch formations to get tactical advantage. I definitely like the new Downcast formation much better than the first one which wasn't balanced. For me at least it goes to show how a team functioning together as a team is better than just getting in more shiny name players. at same time I really like this Vj/EAP team as well. The Pires and Overmars flanks are just :drool: to an Arsenal fan like me who watched both arrive and depart. That alone almost wins my vote but now with Xabi both Camoranesi and Maniche look much better suited to their roles. Tricky match to decide.
 

Ecstatic

Cutie patootie!
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
13,787
Supports
PsG
I will come back tomorrow.

I have an injured player :)

Time to submit a 3rd strategy
 

Ecstatic

Cutie patootie!
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
13,787
Supports
PsG
@Physiocrat will present the news. I will come back tomorrow

antohan said:
Probably one with ten players, I guess.
Click to expand...
Yes! and you can already guess the new team as there is only one monster in the air in this game, a guy able to score a winning goal at the Euro and whose 1st name is Oliver.


 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,038
Location
Moscow
Downcast said:
Baggio is not known for his defensive contribution of course but he remains a central midfielder: 3 players against 2 in the centre of the park is far from being anecdotal.
Click to expand...
Baggio is a central midfielder? You sure that you haven't done a De Boer here, confusing Roberto with Dino? Seriously, wtf? :lol:
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,038
Location
Moscow
Physiocrat said:
Brolin is off for a pie. Alonso on.



Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]
That is SO much better than the original set-up. Still a little light defensively but Alonso's positioning and passing, Camoranesi playing more centrally, even Maniche is much better as a left center mid...
Not enough to overcome the initial handicap for me, but I would've probably voted for Downcast if he were to start with this team.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,444
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
harms said:
That is SO much better than the original set-up. Still a little light defensively but Alonso's positioning and passing, Camoranesi playing more centrally, even Maniche is much better as a left center mid...
Not enough to overcome the initial handicap for me, but I would've probably voted for Downcast if he were to start with this team.
Click to expand...
Can you elaborate on that a bit please?

Yes, this formation is much more balanced than the one before, but still..... We are compact in the middle where his strengths lay and he's open out wide where our strengths lie. He'll score, but we'll score more.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,038
Location
Moscow
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Can you elaborate on that a bit please?

Yes, this formation is much more balanced than the one before, but still..... We are compact in the middle where his strengths lay and he's open out wide where our strengths lie. He'll score, but we'll score more.
Click to expand...
You'd struggle to contain his front three. It would've been an even game, not sure who I would've voted for tbf, overreacted a bit after he fixed a few obvious flaws
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,444
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
Downcast said:
I find ridiculous the argument saying I didn't have width with Kaka, Candela, Camoranesi, Brolin... not to mention the fact that Baggio also operated as left forward at his prime... as if it was mandatory to play with a contemporary 4-3-3 system or a 4-4-2 one to win trophies.

But I can't blame you for that because I used to say the same kind of things in the last drafts.
Click to expand...
Honestly there's nothing ridiculous in those comments. None of Baggio, Kaka or Brolin are capable of providing width. They certainly can drift wide, but are more likely to cut in. None would stretch my defence or try to beat my fullbacks.

Maybe Camoranesi, but you played him wrong. He's not in his element as a wingback and in the new formation is not played as a wide midfielder. Can drift wide, but nothing enough to cause concern for my wingers.

Candela, yes. But that just opens him up to counter by Overmars. No way he's fast enough to win that battle.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,444
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
harms said:
You'd struggle to contain his front three. It would've been an even game, not sure who I would've voted for tbf, overreacted a bit after he fixed a few obvious flaws
Click to expand...
Fair enough.

Our tactic has always been to be compact in middle and counter through wings. Personally I think the space in front of our defence will be crowded and that's in our favour. Pace of Eto and Baggio will certainly be hard and they have too much class to be shut down and will probably score. But Overmars VS Candela will be a one sided affair. I rate Pires also ahead of Ferrer. Add in Shearer vs De Boer that will leave him open to headers.

I reckon Pires/Suarez will be similar to Pires/Henry combo that scored 57 goals during Arsenal's Invincible season. Not even Ayala and Ferrer could stop that, imo.
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,643
If only Downcast went for Gabi and Pizarro in midfield, I'd have voted for his.

--------------Eto'o
Kaka -----------------
Baggio

-------------------- Camoranesi
Gabi -----------------------
Pizarro

-- Back Four--​

That's pretty tasty.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.