Synth Draft: SF - Invictus vs Gio

[Gio]

Baresi is probably most famous for his miraculous recovery from injury to keep a clean sheet in the 1994 World Cup Final, but I always thought he was such a consummate and unbeatable presence in 1990. He was in complete control, not just a step ahead of the opposition as much as the veritable country mile.


1994 was incredible on its own merits as well, up against Romario at the absolute peak of his powers.

 

[Invictus]

His career record is irrelevant given he's not liberated to get forward here. Every ounce of his energy will be devoted to following Maradona. Now if you'd set your midfield in a three with a more defensive minded sitter behind Matthaus, then it would be relevant.

It has to be said though that in this company his deep playmaking is unremarkable. The common view of Matthaus around 89/90 was that this was a fantastic box-to-box dynamo who could mark and get on the end of things, but he wasn't the heir to Beckenbauer, Netzer or Schuster. I've got an article in a World Soccer around this time making these points and building a case that West Germany were suffering as a result. It was never an issue in Italia '90 because Brehme was probably the principal playmaker and transition-maker from deep, with Littbarski in particular offering creative play in midfield.

I do think it is a slight concern that there's no natural playmaker in that area of the park. And that really needs Hagi to see a lot of the ball to get things going. Which is a risky tactic given the potential for him to be starved of supply given the trio he is up against.

Yes, but this speaks to our overarching point about Falcão and Neeskens also being distracted by Hagi given that the former played alongside Toninho Cerezo, and the latter with Van Hanegem and Jansen - who acted as the water-carrier for Neeskens to advance into attacking areas. There are going to be a lot of clashes in the center of the park - and the outcome will not be as stark as the one out wide. It also adds a bit of context to the initial argument of both Brehme and Amoros being in two minds in attack and defense given the looming threat of Džajić and Best. I think a lot of players that are supposed to be difference-makers in offense in your team will be emburdened with arduous defensive tasks - a bit like the Matthäus vs. Maradona effect. None moreso than the aforementioned duo of Brehme and Amoros.

The big difference though is we have Franco Baresi anchoring our defence. Schwarzenbeck was twice the player with Beckenbauer behind him, and he has another Kaiser-like presence here to allow him do what he does best. Baresi is some distance ahead of Blanc in the all-time stakes. And in terms of fit, both Schwarzenbeck, who had to cover the same space when Breitner and/or Beckenbauer went forward, and Pereira who covered the very same space against the very same opponent in 1974, have pedigree to do the job here.

I think both teams have certain pros and cons depending on the area you want to target. For Baresi anchoring the defense as an improvement over Blanc, we could cite Van Basten leading the line as an improvement over Linekar, for the extra man in defense, we have an extra man in attack, and so forth. Not to mention, the presence of a herculian figure like Schmeichel at the back who surely adds a lot of authority to the defense in terms of vocal organization and sheer presence relative to Croy.

 

[Invictus]

To provide some context, this is the greatest wingback of all time bar none - trying to unsuccessfully negotiate with the world class tandem of Jairzinho and Carlos Alberto:


We reckon both Brehme and Amoros will face a similar-ish overall quality of opposition in this match given the presence of Best and Džajić and McGrain and Krol - which will have an adverse effect on their performances, and in particular diminish their attacking output from out wide by a substantial margin - which will blunt the team to an extent - much like Maradona vs Vierchowod and Matthäus.

 

[Gio]

And here's Baresi with the cigar out keeping a clean sheet against Van Basten and Gullit in 1990 too, breaking incisively into midfield on several occasions. He bursts forward to set up one goal, sets up another one which is wrongly disallowed for offside, and just generally looks like the best defender, midfielder and attacker on the park. Van Basten's body language is quite revealing in the second half, deflated and resigned to not even a glimpse of Zenga's goal.

 

[Enigma_87]

Tough to vote against @Gio as I love that midfield and his team as a whole, but I feel his attack is too heavy for Schwarzenbeck and Pereira to handle with Dzajic and Best cutting in.

Will follow the discussion as it's pretty close to me.

 

[Gio]

To provide some context, this is the greatest wingback of all time bar none - trying to unsuccessfully negotiate with the world class tandem of Jairzinho and Carlos Alberto:


We reckon both Brehme and Amoros will face a similar-ish overall quality of opposition in this match given the presence of Best and Džajić and McGrain and Krol - which will have an adverse effect on their performances, and in particular diminish their attacking output from out wide by a substantial margin - which will blunt the team to an extent - much like Maradona vs Vierchowod and Matthäus.

Not very good context. Facchetti and Jairzinho jostled it out and had a great battle. Brazil's midfield was very dominant, which gave Alberto plenty of chances to overlap, whereas in this game your midfield will be struggling to keep up, even with a fair wind.

The main point though is that a 3-5-2 does not get pumped on the flanks because the wing-back is facing two players. If that was the case the formation would have been extinct decades ago, rather than a regular part of the modern game. The formation tilts on its axis, depending on where the ball is and where the opposition is positioned. For example, Krol could have the ball in my half, pressed by Amoros, and everyone would pass a man on and tuck inside, so that ultimately Brehme operates as a left-back. And if the ball goes back into midfield for the switch, Brehme pushes on and the reverse happens. Very routine, standard tactics.

 

[Invictus]

but I feel his attack is too heavy for Schwarzenbeck and Pereira to handle with Dzajic and Best cutting in.

Yep, have a similar feeling. Both of those players had remarkable goalscoring records at their peak aside from dazzling dribbling ability and guile. Džajić lit up EURO '68 with fantastic performances against the likes Moore and Banks - and later Vogts in the subsequent European Championship. And Best scored 32 goals in a season at his peak!

 

[MJJ]

Don't feel the votes really reflect the difference but invictus has more of an attacking edge which will make the difference.

 

[Gio]

Don't feel the votes really reflect the difference but invictus has more of an attacking edge which will make the difference.

Yeah, he has more attackers on the park. My counter to that is that it's less likely they'll see the ball, because our midfield trio should have the edge relative to his. Plus having four attackers, even throwing in a bit of running back from Best, leaves Invictus very vulnerable to getting picked off on the break. As much as it packs plenty of punch, off the ball the shape looks vulnerable to me and the defence likely to be overloaded.

 

[Invictus]

Not very good context. Facchetti and Jairzinho jostled it out and had a great battle. Brazil's midfield was very dominant, which gave Alberto plenty of chances to overlap, whereas in this game your midfield will be struggling to keep up, even with a fair wind.

Come on please, I know Maradona is considered to be an untouched mythical figure in drafts - a bit of a cheat code where reasoning ability is suspended in his presence, but players of the caliber of Tigana and Matthäus and Hagi 'will be struggling to keep up'...that's quite hard to digest from an objective perspective. Matthäus was arguably the finest central midfielder of all time, Tigana finished 2nd in the Ballon D'Or voting and is one of the greatest defensive box-to-box players of all time time, and Hagi finished 4th in the Ballon D'Or voting at his peak while being a pre-eminent attacking player of his era. These are players of the highest order and I can't envision a plausible scenario where they struggle against the opposition trio in terms of quality or fit.

Plus having four attackers, even throwing in a bit of running back from Best, leaves Invictus very vulnerable to getting picked off on the break. As much as it packs plenty of punch, off the ball the shape looks vulnerable to me and the defence likely to be overloaded.

I think vulnerability on the break extends both ways, to be honest - Brehme and Amoros have been addressed before, Schwarzenbeck and Pereira weren't natural wide-ish defenders to counter Best and Džajić when they evade the fullbacks (they will...and frequently given the function of the wingbacks in terms of providing width in attack), and Falcão and Neeskens are both vulnerable to counters, too. The spaces we will have to defend in the defensive third are more constrained in comparative terms. Your defense is as likely to be overloaded through wider areas as ours through the middle, except Best and Džajić were more evasive and decisive and explosive than Falcão and Neeskens.

 

[Gio]

Come on please, I know Maradona is considered to be an untouched mythical figure in drafts - a bit of a cheat code where reasoning ability is suspended in his presence

Come on, that's hardly the case in light of the scoreline is it?

 

[Invictus]

Come on, that's hardly the case in light of the scoreline is it?

Fair enough, mate. I'll try to shut up for a bit.

 

[Gio]

Fair enough, mate. I'll try to shut up for a bit.

No worries, I'm just about to head off out for training anyway. I may respond to a couple of points from a discussion perspective at some point tomorrow in all likelihood, but the game's done - all the best for the final.

 

[idmanager]

Ah, that is so beautiful no matter how many times you watch it. Effortless.

 

[harms]

In the end went with @Gio. Because Baresi is that good that he can keep anyone from scoring, and Maradona & co are good for one goal.

Voting against Best, van Basten, Dzajic, Schmeichel (especially), Matthäus and Tigana though

 

[Invictus]

Dunno how much of a quantifiable difference this will make in the grand scheme of things, but there's a facet of the team that we'd like to highlight since the team is capable of making rapid transitions - and that is Schmeichel's proficiency at spraying the ball from the back - in addition to the likes of Blanc and Krol bringing it out in trademark fashion:

Schmeichel as a significant counterattacking threat.

Peter Schmeichel is another pillar of the overall counterattacking prowess to spring a surprise on the opposition (along with the others that have been mentioned previously). Goalkeepers are almost always marginalized in drafts, but someone like Schmeichel was perfectly capable of turning the tide of matches - in that not only was he an excellent shot stopper, his powerful and precise long range passes (vertical, or diagonal - to the likes of Giggs and Kanchelskis) acted as the spring board for devastating counters - something that can be replicated with our wingers.

e.g. Schmeichel's pass to Solskjær (note the distance the ball travels, and the way Peter bypasses almost half of the opposition team - immediately after making a save):


Given the complete nature of Van Basten's game and his prowess in the air or on the ground, as well as his ability to play off the shoulder of the central defender and go on probing runs off-the-ball, this could be a key feature with attackers like Best, Hagi and Džajić behind him - all capable of translating Schmeichel's throws into threatening goalward oppurtunities.

 

[Moby]

and later Vogts

ffs

 

[Invictus]

ffs

I think it's from '76...


Might have to rewatch that game.

Errr...bit of an off-topic post at this stage, but looking at Yugoslavia's lineups, I can't believe we didn't detect this error through the drafting phase:

Branko Oblak

National team
1970–1977 Yugoslavia 46 (6)

Dragan Džajić

National team
1964–1978 Yugoslavia 85 (23)

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=1976/matches/round=191/match=3691/index.html

 

[antohan]

Cracking sides as we usually see at this stage. Only thing that doesn't sit quite right with me is Blanc-Vierchowod, would swap them around myself as a default. I suppose it had more to do with Vierchowod coming out to deal with Stoichkov and Blanc being better suited to remain deep?

It's an odd one. If you told me they play each other 10 times I'd expect Invictus to pick up the most points overall. A one-off though is right up Team Gio's street. Still, can't ignore so much firepower I'm afraid.

 

[Moby]

Still, can't ignore so much firepower I'm afraid.

And he can add Maradona to it.

Should I bother putting something up for the final?

 

[harms]

I think it's from '76...



Might have to rewatch that game.

 

[Invictus]

Cracking sides as we usually see at this stage. Only thing that doesn't sit quite right with me is Blanc-Vierchowod, would swap them around myself as a default. I suppose it had more to do with Vierchowod coming out to deal with Stoichkov and Blanc being better suited to remain deep?

Yep, that's precisely why we started Blanc on the left and Vierchowod on the right. Just reckon that the latter possesses a superior blend of athleticism and tenacious mentality to repel Stoichkov he latter drifts inwards (out wide he'll mostly face McGrain). While Blanc is suited to sweeping up the balls aimed at Linekar as the more measured and calculating half of the pairing.

 

[antohan]

And he can add Maradona to it.

Should I bother putting something up for the final?

Dunno what your team looks like. Probably not.

 

[antohan]

Yep, that's precisely why we started Blanc on the left and Vierchowod on the right. Just reckon that the latter possesses a superior blend of athleticism and tenacious mentality to repel Stoichkov when he drifts inwards (out wide he'll mostly face McGrain). While Blanc is suited to sweeping up the balls aimed at Linekar as the more measured and calculating half of the pairing.

Agree, good thinking.

 

[Invictus]

Fantastic! Can always count on you, Joga and Bepo to provide individual compilations for these drafts. On a related note, I quite like Dailymotion - a couple of compilations I'd published on Youtube got scrapped (Conti vs West Germany, Nesta in EURO 2000, and Ceballos vs. Italy U21). So I've migrated to Dailymotion for this draft. Quick question, though...is there a way to customize the thumbnail preview? Shows Pagliuca for this one, and I want to change it to Blanc...mostly because it will be more appropriate:


The Krol one seems fine from that perspective.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Two equal teams. Voted Gio as it'll be Maradona's individual magic to break the tie.

And if he does score early, I expect Gio to be able to defend his lead better.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Invictus why do you keep posting Pagliuca compilation?

 

[Moby]

Dunno what your team looks like. Probably not.

This pile of shite right here.

 

[Gio]

It'll be an interesting match-up between Maradona and Matthaus. On one hand, Matthaus is as good an opponent as you could hope for and is well respected by the Argentine. On the other, it's still peak Maradona and basically nothing stops that apart from regular fouling (as shown by him being the most fouled player in World Cup history by a country mile of agricultural Gentile scythes).

They most famously clashed in the 1986 final. Although Maradona was still moving up the gears in the first half, he still managed to leave Matthaus for dead, winning the free-kick from which Argentina scored their opener. Maradona then found space in the midfield to open up the game for Valdano to score Argentina's second. Five minutes to go and all square, he does the same, feeding in Burruchaga for the winner. Then in the final minutes he goes into overdrive, tearing West Germany to shreds. And that's Maradona, relatively quiet, creating three goals and provide a more team-orientated performance:

Maradona, whose explosions of individual skill against England and Belgium had carried him to the final of a wave of universal acclaim – give or take the odd English cry of "Cheat" – stayed in the engine-room yesterday, checking on the gauges and the pistons and giving a less spectacular through no less valuable performance.

But then the duo clashed on other occasions too and invariably Maradona caused all sorts of carnage.

 

[harms]

Fantastic! Can always count on you, Joga and Bepo to provide individual compilations for these drafts. On a related note, I quite like Dailymotion - a couple of compilations I'd published on Youtube got scrapped (Conti vs West Germany, Nesta in EURO 2000, and Ceballos vs. Italy U21). So I've migrated to Dailymotion for this draft. Quick question, though...is there a way to customize the thumbnail preview? Shows Pagliuca for this one, and I want to change it to Blanc...mostly because it will be more appropriate:

There was, I can't seem to find the function with their new design
Yeah, the copyright issues was the reason for our migration too (slightly underwhelming as dailymotion is banned for me and Joga and I have to use VPN to access it)

 

[antohan]

This pile of shite right here.

Clown aside, the spine would compete, but you'll get destroyed on the flanks.

 

[Invictus]

@Invictus why do you keep posting Pagliuca compilation?

 

[Moby]

Clown aside, the spine would compete, but you'll get destroyed on the flanks.

Especially as Invictus has already put the final nail in Vogts' coffin with that Dzajic video, who are likely to compete in the final.

 

[harms]

@Invictus somehow they keep changing my language to Russian, but it should be the same buttons in any language

Spoiler

 

[antohan]

It'll be an interesting match-up between Maradona and Matthaus. On one hand, Matthaus is as good an opponent as you could hope for and is well respected by the Argentine. On the other, it's still peak Maradona and basically nothing stops that apart from regular fouling (as shown by him being the most fouled player in World Cup history by a country mile of agricultural Gentile scythes).

They most famously clashed in the 1986 final. Although Maradona was still moving up the gears in the first half, he still managed to leave Matthaus for dead, winning the free-kick from which Argentina scored their opener. Maradona then found space in the midfield to open up the game for Valdano to score Argentina's second. Five minutes to go and all square, he does the same, feeding in Burruchaga for the winner. Then in the final minutes he goes into overdrive, tearing West Germany to shreds. And that's Maradona, relatively quiet, creating three goals and provide a more team-orientated performance:



But then the duo clashed on other occasions too and invariably Maradona caused all sorts of carnage.

Every now and then I reconsider Messi's GOAT case and invariably I bump into some completely random clip that reminds me just how fecking great Diego was.

Insane. Sure, not as productive, but they are different settings, tactics, opponents, protection by referees... The guy was just unreal and his demeanour alone sets him apart from grumpy Lio, an absolute joy to watch.

 

[Invictus]

@Invictus somehow they keep changing my language to Russian, but it should be the same buttons in any language

Spoiler

Thanks, mate. I've found the corresponding option in English:

 

[harms]

Thanks, mate. I've found the corresponding option in English:

Spoiler

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Invictus is the new Gio.

Maybe it's a dual profile created by gio to himself a good draft opponent.

 

[Enigma_87]

very harsh result on Gio to be such a one sided affair, he had a brilliant team.

Congratulations @Invictus you have a mental front 6 there and a solid defence backed by Schmikes.

 

[Physiocrat]

It was a close one. I just thought Invictus' firepower was too much.