Players prepared and trained for the wrong tactic. Completely taken by surprise. Game will end in the first 20 minutes. /anto
Synth Draft SF - Moby vs EAP/RT
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
@Moby Thanks for the setup. I thought you were playing tomorrow. Hey ho
While we debate Demyanenko's attack, here's something what actual match winners in this game are doing:
I get that you have to discuss about other areas on the pitch as comparing the key areas will only leave you behind.
Anyone can tell who has the more potent attack between the two teams: Bettega, Weah and Cruyff vs Zico, Tostao and Romario.
I get that you have to discuss about other areas on the pitch as comparing the key areas will only leave you behind.
Anyone can tell who has the more potent attack between the two teams: Bettega, Weah and Cruyff vs Zico, Tostao and Romario.
One thing he does have going for him is that his attack is not central which kind of reduces Souness and Rijkaard's importance to the team (His Laudrup point does make sense here). Looks quality on paper but not as effective as it can be against the opposition here.
With no fullbacks/wingbacks, he is right that all he might require is one attack to score against the 4-5 you make per goal. Its easier to attack against less defenders, than attack with more attackers. (Can I patent this if no one has ever used it before?
) .Also, he has his 3 CBs there, so I don't think his wingbacks can't attack, especially in Futre's case where Bergomi is the ideal fit for Demyanenko or any RWB.
Of course, the 3 central defenders in your team are quality too to let easy goals in. Has Mcgrath ever played this role btw?
Tougher to choose than I initially imagined and voted. Will revisit my vote based on further discussion from people. Good luck both of you.
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I personally don't like McGrath-Scirea-Vogts trio; McGrath lacks the expertise to be played as a left side back, plus you'd want him centrally to help out Scirea with aerial threat. And Vogts is just strangely used. He played as a center back sometimes, but I was never impressed with him in that role, if it wasn't as a pure man-marker; I prefer him as a right back in a back 4, where he got lots of freedom going forward. He is very different from Thuram, who is someone you'd want as your RCB.
Bettega will keep McGrath glued to the center as you don't want to leave him 1 on 1 with Scirea; as good as he was, Bettega's aerial threat is too great for him to handle alone.
Bettega will keep McGrath glued to the center as you don't want to leave him 1 on 1 with Scirea; as good as he was, Bettega's aerial threat is too great for him to handle alone.
I'd buy that for his wingbacks, but then it's McGrath against Bettega out wide.
Think he'll be uncomfortable tracking him on the flank. He has the pace to do so, but not so fluent as Vogts on the other side.
I really like your set up. A wingback or Krol/Maldini instead of McGrath and it would really be great fit with that crop of players.
Was just about to make a point and this related to just that.
All 5 of Futre, Houseman, Zico, Tostao and Romario are absolutely elite dribblers and possess massive close control, acceleration and explosiveness.
Throughout their careers they have needed 2-3 defenders to contain them and that rarely worked. Zico played in Serie A and had a better goals/game ratio than Platini and used to just power through entire defenses and get the job done.
There's no way he can expect his defenders to contain my attack with a 1v1 strategy, that's suicidal and unfortunately he doesn't have any option to double team them with the numbers I have put forward. Given the quality of my spine that is going to dominate his attack and midfield and get the ball forward more often, it's what will win the game here. The amount of channels of attack that I cover with great ability in all of those occupying players in all areas will leave tremendous amount of spaces and I can't see the likes of Zico and Romario not absolutely burying those chances.
My goal threat and goalscoring ability is simply on another level. Those players don't just faff around, they do the business.
Of course someone like Krol would have been ideal, but Lerby was blocking him (and Romario) - actually he was a pain in the ass at this stage haha and I had to spend one reinforcement on replacing him, luckily I landed Rijkaard.
Let's not pretend that he will be having acres of space to attack, I have 5 proper defensive players in there who would form a watertight unit, and it won't be overloaded and outnumbered as his defense would be on the other end.
How the hell is he ever going to outscore me? My primary goalscorers are on another level than his, it's not something that can be ignored!
Was 3-2-3-2 ever a used in real life? A formal 3-2-5 is usually 3-2-2-3 with Inside Forwards and False 9.
Bettega is getting underrated here. He is better than "McGrath out wide" more so with Demyanenko's support.
What Moby has fielded is a inherently unbalanced formation. Esp with one of the few defenders not a wide player.
Shine names!
Shiny names is not equal to abundant goals.
My back 3 is better than yours. I have 2 wingbacks who are better than your wingers.
I wouldn't have fielded a narrow defense if you didn't have a narrow attack, which was one of the reasons and works in my favour.
I don't really get this.
Why can't a wingback attack? Have you never seen a fullback attack when faced against a good winger? Is it mandatory that when faced against a winger, there needs to be a defensive fullback?
Branco in 94 finals had faced Benarrivo and Donadoni with no shiny names ahead of him for support. Even in a back 4, I'd count him to stand good against Houseman.
And note this is Houseman with no overlapping support.
Lol, you didn't have anyone else.
And with wingbacks and Cruff and Bettega comfortable out wide, how is my attack narrow?
You just fielded 2 wingers with no support. I have more width than yours probably all over the field.
Also facing the better attack here and a far greater challenge given both the quality and the numbers they're being thrown at, all the while their midfield cannot keep up against my midfield's ball winning ability and constant pressure hence having to deal with far more waves of attacks.
Especially with the wingbacks who they'd expect to support them against that attack are busy trying to cross into a crowded area with the likes of Rijkaard and McGrath cutting out the service and initiating attacks quickly with two devastatingly quick and skillful wingers having being left unattended.
Excuse me? Sorry but your wingbacks wouldn't influence going forward as much as my wingers, in no scenario.
I think you are seriously underrating Laudrup here. Not that Bettega is average or something, but Laudrup was something else, especially at 25/26. He was one of the most agile players and apart from his wonderful vision and feel for the pass, he was absolutely capable of leaving 3-4 defenders on the deck. He had that burst when he got the ball and could easily open up spaces on counter, not to mention finding Weah/Cruyff in the box.
You have two wingbacks, Weah and of course Cruyff in the zone moving through the lines like he always does. A player like Laudrup is not only more useful than Bettega as a tactical fit, but also a gamechanger in this match.
There are plenty of runners in your team mate, a front line with Cruyff/Laudrup as inside forwards and a clinical direct striker in Weah has not only more individual quality, but also IMO a better chemistry as a trio.
He'll pin you back tho, that I agree with Moby. You'll be hitting him on counters. Vogts on Cruyff is a good fit obviously with Scirea sweeping. He'll need McGrath to cover Weah's pace as well as leaving him 1 on 1 with Scirea on counter won't be a good idea, but then he also has Rijkaard dropping back so again the question goes back to his left flank and your right and how good you can exploit it on the counter.
Not exactly touchline hugging, are they. They'll both inevitable attack centrally and if Cruyff goes wide Vogts can easily follow him.
Cheers, have mentioned this in the OP as well and that's was another big reason to be able to field such a formation. Without the ball he will be able to slot in as a defender providing extra cover against the crossing from out wide, having a CM who was so comfortable at doing that made the decision easier.
Finally! That was the intended plan. I have it in OP .... "Defend through the middle. Attack out wide"
He has better players in the middle so I had to even it up with numbers. My advantage is that none of his defenders bar Vogts are good out wide. And that is where I exploit my advantage.
And really every time I have the ball, I have a straight shot at his defensive trio. There literally is nothing stopping my wing backs on the counter.
He may have more possession but I will have more shots on target
With dribblers in a packed area, it's not optimal for either Zico or Houseman or Futre to be lethal, as they lack time and space to do their job. On the contrary, my wingbacks have ample time and space to run, put in their crosses, stretch his defence with no one to challenge.
Also, he has his 3 CBs there, so I don't think his wingbacks can't attack
Double negatives getting the better of you EAP?
Indeed, and any defense pinned back against the likes of Zico, Tostao and freaking Romario who would be absolutely deadly with that support and service around him in the tightest of spaces is simply a mammoth task for any defense. Like I said that defense will need a lot of support against that which again I've done my best to cut off by having two proper wingers out wide occupying his wingbacks. I don't buy that his midfield dropping deep will be of much help and that front three will create massive inroads and a truck load of great chances. That's no slight on his defense, but that attack especially with the Brazilian coherence and all three absolutely in their element will prevail here.
Those players being so deadly in tight spaces is a massive advantage.
Not a chance.
And Moby's apparently doing a good job of blanking out my wingbacks.
Seems they are useless defensively and have no attacking output...wonder why Demyanenko and Branco are on the pitch.
Seems they are useless defensively and have no attacking output...wonder why Demyanenko and Branco are on the pitch.
I think he was agreeing? Read again and there are two "can't"s? = "can"?
.... a double negative?
(Edit.. sorry, double post, edited)
That is unlikely IMO.
But I do think both teams will have equal number of clear cut chances albeit with different number of attacks or shots taken.
What? Zico literally tore apart teams who defended in numbers deep and tried to cut his space. That's my point, none of my players in that front three depend on having space to exploit whatsoever, They'd murder teams with half an inch and sometimes not even that. Romario in the box with Tostao in support and Zico providing the service and being available to shoot is simply unstoppable here. They've constantly come up with moments of magic in exactly such situations.
Also, with my attack spending all that time around his defense with their skillful dribbling and close control, there's be a lot of free kicks and Zico is the best free kick taker on the pitch and one of the greatest ever.
Had a red eye flight last night and still recoveringAlso, he has his 3 CBs there, so I don't think his wingbacks can't attack
Double negatives getting the better of you EAP?
May I know why?
Moby - Has dribblers in Zico, Futre and Houseman and that is a packed area.
EAP - Has 2 wingbacks who can walk with the ball out wide and no oppoenent comfortable who can track them.
I can move the ball to his defence easier than he can to mine.
The fact that you have compensate the attacking impact from the likes of Zico, Futre and Houseman - 3 match winning attacking players - by your WINGBACKS must tell you which team has its best players in their element and poised to be at their best here.
I'd take an in form Zico having this kind of support and midfield around him to work his magic over your wingbacks, plain and simple. He'd win me this game.
Who is stopping him here, again?
Bit exhausted to be honest, think I've said most of what the important areas for me would be here, so would let the neutrals have this discussion for some time.
Lucho's Barca? 3-2-3-2 works in possession and 3 at the back with two holding midfielders provide some extra defensive support. Only McGrath is questionable in that role and Futre in Moby's team.
Maybe shifting Bettega out wide as a winger would work better aestetically I guess - pulling McGrath out of position. Going by the two formations seems like it is a narrow set up (the width comes from the wing backs) against Moby's back three with 2 midfielders sitting in front of them.
Already agreed that its easier to attack against lesser number of defenders rather than attack with more attackers. Which is why I mention there would be equal number of clear cut chances for both teams.
But I think in a higher possesion vs counter attacking system, claiming that you will have more shots is a bit naive. For that to happen, you would need to be breaking his attacks by a ratio of at least 1:2 and make a goal scoring opportunity out of most. People have questioned his back 3, but come on, they are no nuts to let that happen.
Besides, Zico with Souness and Rijkaard is sex. That has Guardiola+Mourinho written all over it from a midfield battle point of view. Its no Xaviesta + Busquets to be liable a lot on counters, at least centrally. Not having fullbacks, yes that is a bit of a problem for him where I already mentioned you have your chances.
Tasty debate going on in here lads. I'll be back later to catch up and comment!
Imo it's nothing questionable. It is a clear weakness.
McGrath has never played that role. He is also not a left footed player so is clearly unsuitable. With a back 3 he really cannot afford such a glaring weakness.
Bettega is positioned out wide and even has arrows pointing wider
And write up says what his role is.McGrath is getting ridiculously overrated here. Bluntly put, he's a tactical disaster waiting to happen. But then the romanticism of the name is what is keeping Moby in this game.
And simply having more players is not possession. Pep's Barca known for possession has around 52-49 advantage over United in 2009 CL finals iirc. Nothing really that drastic and I'm not really facing Pep's Barca, am I?
None of Zico, Romario or his wingers are suitable for possession play. They are individualistic players. Nothing like Xaviesta/Messi. The moment they get the ball, they are more likely to dribble and take my defence on directly. Saying he has advantage in possession is just ridiculous imo. He can get Rijkaard and Souness to hold on to the ball, but that's just useless to him and actually favours me.
Oh my god.
Yes.
No. Not even close.
Pep's Barca (Xaviesta/Messi), Cruyff Dream Team (Bakero/Laudrup) all have players in attack who are unselfish and willing to play for the team. You can't even dream of such dynamics with Zico and Romario. Great players, but not really ones you want in possession play.
I guess possession is indeed the wrong word there and I agree with your point. But I meant higher number of attacks initiated. His USP is his attack while yours is his weak defence being exploited out wide on counters. Maybe others might disagree, but that for me favors the team which has its own attacking unit as its USP w.r.t number of shots taken.
To be fair I didn't mean Pep's Barca. He has managed Bayern and City too and I think this midfield comes close to the way they were setup. All round midfielders who can contribute to both phases of play which is why I felt it was one of those midfields both Pep and Jose would have appreciated.
It's just a tactic. Possession, counter, direct play...teams have been successful all such. His players suit a direct attacking play, not a possession one.
My point was, he has the players to attack directly. I have strength in numbers to defend. All 3 of my CBs are world class. Cerezo and Roth may not be as sexy as Rijkaard/Souness...but they have a limited role here. Sit back and shield the middle. No flamboyance needed. Suits them to a T.
He needs to get past lot of players, do a lot of dribbling, individual brilliance etc to get a sight at my goal.
Branco and Demyanenko has a straight unopposed route. Every single time they have the ball, they'll split his defence....which he cannot do to mine, even with Zico and Romario.
Didn't know Demyanenko is transforming into Garrincha between the game phases.
They'll have it far and few, and like I said you've taken the biggest risk in the game by allowing those wingbacks to attack given what they are leaving behind. It'll work like a charm for me.
Pep's Bayern had Alaba, Lahm and Rafinha capable of defending out wide. Plus they have the "unselfish" playmaker in Muller. Be it side backs or wide midfielders or wide forwards, having some width in defence/midfield is mandatory for any team. Most old school 3-2-5 teams have all 3 of their fullbacks comfortable wide (e.g Victor Andrade).
And bringing Pep up bring about an interesting point. Ability to defend a lead. All I need to score is 1 goal and I can defend in numbers. No matter how much he scores his team can't defend a lead.
Don't need to. Against your "non-existant" flank defence, my grandmother can move the ball forward effectively.
Yes, that works in your favor I agree. It's an area that you have advantage.
I meant for purely aestetic purposes as he also has an arrow pointing inside. You'd need him far more occupying the flank rather than cutting inside which works in Moby's favor.Bettega is positioned out wide and even has arrows pointing wider
McGrath is getting ridiculously overrated here. Bluntly put, he's a tactical disaster waiting to happen. But then the romanticism of the name is what is keeping Moby in this game.
I don't think McGrath is being overrated tho, not just me but also others pointed out that he's not all that suited for the task.
Different ball game. They took an early lead which changed the mechanics of the match. I'm pretty sure if we didn't concede in the opening 10 mins we would succumb pressure far more often.