System babies

horsechoker

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Which players do you consider system babies?

A system baby is a player that flourishes under a particular system but struggles outside of that.

Kagawa
Sahin
Götze
Schneiderlin


Possible system babies:
Mkhitaryan
Depay
Hazard
Fellaini

Anyone who posts Messi should be threadbanned.
 

Smores

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Hernandez would be one of our most obvious ones
 

Jam

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Is this a valiant attempt to coin a phrase a la 'attack the space'?

For a few of those I wouldn't necessarily call them 'system babies' (..not that I'd ever call anyone that ever but I digress). Depay excelled in a weaker league where his skill set was more effective and then he's came here and around more talented and generally sturdier teams he has largely failed to impress. Fellaini benefited more from position rather than 'system' - we've tried to use him in a fashion that doesn't work for him in the past and he's made him look poorer than he actually is just under-utilized and this isn't a Fellaini defense because we have far better options ahead of using Fellaini in his primary fashion. Hazard is a total confidence player and excelled in several systems and it's totally up to him if he performs largely I'd agree in a similar sentiment with Mkhitayran.

The first three are just three players from Dortmund that didn't live up to expectations and I'd say is closer to your point - Klopp's Dortmund of that time was a perfect recipe. Those player's didn't fail elsewhere they moved to other teams in which they were under-utilized and didn't play to their strengths like back at Dortmund. Schneiderlin too moved to a bigger team and he has stood out less with a different set of responsibilities. But yeah the first set are closer to players who you might call 'system babies' but ultimately doesn't every single player have a preferred system that'll benefit their skillset?
 

Rozay

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Which players do you consider system babies?

A system baby is a player that flourishes under a particular system but struggles outside of that.

Kagawa
Sahin
Götze
Schneiderlin


Possible system babies:
Mkhitaryan
Depay
Hazard
Fellaini

Anyone who posts Messi should be threadbanned.
Basically, any footballer who fails to live up to expectation following a transfer?
 

3KDré

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Felipe Luis maybe?
I've a feeling Godin is too. He's world class for sure but definitely helped by the defensive style of play.
 

Smores

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Anderson has a system for eating baby back ribs if that counts

Tenious joke sorry
 

Rozay

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There's an overlap but not necessarily the same. Falcao isn't a system baby but didn't live up to expectations.
It's how it reads to me. Sahin left a fast counter-attacking Dortmund and went to a fast counter-attacking Madrid, before joining a fast, attacking Liverpool and failed to recapture his Dortmund form. Then, like the majority of the players on your list, he then returned to the very same club where he made his name, and like the rest, have failed to replicate their previous Dortmund form.
 

macwemyss

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Difficult to say but I doubt if Barzagli, Chiellini or Bonucci would be quite as effective without each other or in a defensive two - I'm sure they'd still be good defenders though.

For us we've seen Mata clearly struggles out wide or when he doesn't have good movement around him. Stick him in CAM with a smart striker ahead of him though and he's a different player. He did play much of his early career out wide though so not sure if he qualifies.

Busquets could be the prime example really - he's played his whole career in that little niche role Barca have just for him. They look as if they'd struggle without him there and likewise he'd probably struggle in a different system.
 

sullydnl

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People aren't being serious when they say Messi, right? Please god tell me they're not being serious.
 

GhastlyHun

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Everyone who was posted in that 'great goal scorers who were terrible footballers' thread.
 

shaggy

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Lallana would definitely be completely hopeless if we signed him.
 

bosnian_red

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Almost every player.

Some players are capable of playing in whatever system and still looking quality, but will obviously look better in others. Those are usually the individual, all around players who can handle themselves physically, are pacy, and are hugely talented on the ball so they can either handle high pressing teams or play with pace/slow things down and play it safe.

In the premier league, that would be players like Aguero, Sanchez, Hazard, even Martial potential wise (though he's obviously struggling right now, it's not so much due to system as other reasons). Coutinho possibly, though with him he's only managed to be consistent now with Klopp whereas before he would be great 1 game and go missing the next. Hazard was shit last season, but in the same system was the player of the year the year before. So no. Possibly De Bruyne but again, he's not quite as much an individual as those above. Players like Silva, Mata, Ozil; players who are slower/weaker and more just playmakers, those players need the system and the players around them to be right to get the best out of them, otherwise they just won't have a big impact.
 

skidmark

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I guess the idea of a 'system baby' is pretty flawed. There's so many other factors involved for players who underperform at new clubs; moving to a new country, or a club with a hugely different status and different pressure levels, etc.
 

Hojoon

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Morgan Schniederlin?
Di Maria?
Di Maria definitely stands out, even if he did well for the most part at PSG last season. He was an infuriatingly erratic player who was a top 10 player in the world only as a LCM in a very lopsided 4-3-3 that has no chance of being replicated anywhere else.
 

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Every player in the world is better in a system that plays to their strengths. Some systems are more prevalent than others and some players are better at picking things up and adapting. If you put Andy Carroll up front for Dortmund and made them exclusively cross the ball to Andy Carroll in attack then he'd score a lot of goals.
 

Justin

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If there ever was one, Delap and his throw-in system must be it.
 

DannyCAFC

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Probably a fair few Spurs and Liverpool players.