Telegraph Football: Man Utd looking to appoint director of football this summer | Appointed

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AneRu

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I love Edwin but he is not a DOF. Its like asking prime Cantona to cover the GK role or prime VDS to play as a striker alongside RVN. We need to be smart and hire people whose got experience in that role.
VDS should be earmarked as Woodward's successor but a DOF is more important now. I guess football executives around Europe look at United and see the potential being wasted through an ineffective transfer strategy.

I agree that the role requires someone with experience and who has built up a network of contacts such that he is in a position to know who is available, what it will cost us and where he will come in and play. I think we depend on agents far too much on this.
 

manutddjw

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Never understood the obsession with a Director of Football. As shown this summer we have a team of scouts who identify and recommend players. The manager whoever that is then gives approval on said player. I fail to see what’s wrong with this method.

I see a lot of people saying Ed Woodward is inexperienced. He’s been doing this for 7 years now. He knows what he’s doing a director of football isn’t going to change how we operate.
 

devilish

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VDS should be earmarked as Woodward's successor but a DOF is more important now. I guess football executives around Europe look at United and see the potential being wasted through an ineffective transfer strategy.

I agree that the role requires someone with experience and who has built up a network of contacts such that he is in a position to know who is available, what it will cost us and where he will come in and play. I think we depend on agents far too much on this.
I have mixed feelings on this. Manchester United aren't Ajax. We're a beast of a club with an unparalleled budget coming from sponsors etc and with a huge loan that need to be carefully handled. VDS is a former player turned CEO whose managing a club that is pretty much a selling club in a one horse race league.

What I would do is to divide United in half ie the financial side and the football side. Both should have equal power with one of the Glazer's acting as an intermediary when needed. Woodward should handle the financial part which include stuff like loans, sponsors etc. Anything football related should be handled by a football CEO which in this case could be VDS.
 

AneRu

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I agree with your argument but you surely picked the wrong player here. Haaland didn't only attract United's attention. He attracted the attention of many clubs including Juventus. There's a reason why they/we didn't sign him and that was that the terms Mino wanted for him are unacceptable. So in few words we dodged a bullet here.

What a top DOF would do is stopping Mino from playing us like a violin regarding Pogba. It's pretty evident that he's holding us by the balls on that one. Pogba will either leave on cheap on January/Summer or else he would go on a free the year after. A top DOF would have identified such threat early on, he would have sold Pogba when he was on top probably by accepting a huge fee + 1-2 top kids in the mix (Odegaard?). Pogba would then become Real Madrid's problem and we would have signed a top talent.
Haaland was just an example not exactly with regard on his failed signing went. I was saying, sometimes a player needs assurances about his role in the team and Woodward/Judge isnt best placed to offer a convincing assurance but a DoF, being a football person, has the authority to convince a player whilst ED and Judge are more inclined to major on the financial aspects.

The Pogba situation was badly managed in 2019, he was coming off a big season but United were too scared to move him on. Turns out Bruno would have been an adequate replacement and selling Pogba for £80m would have given us the space to sign a midfielder or a CB. It's a perfect example of why we need a DOF.
 

AneRu

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Never understood the obsession with a Director of Football. As shown this summer we have a team of scouts who identify and recommend players. The manager whoever that is then gives approval on said player. I fail to see what’s wrong with this method.

I see a lot of people saying Ed Woodward is inexperienced. He’s been doing this for 7 years now. He knows what he’s doing a director of football isn’t going to change how we operate.
Mourinho, Van Gaal and Ole have shown us the flaws in this system. Sometimes a manager's beliefs and preferences don't align with the club and when you defer to the manager it can turn out to be an expensive mistake.

I remember that in 2017 we had a clear run to sign Fabinho but Mourinho's obssession with experience made us sign Matic for a similar fee and now just three and half mixed seasons later we are having to fund the acquisition of another DM whilst Liverpool dont have to worry about that position for another five years. The less said about Van Gaal's recruitment the better.
 

devilish

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Never understood the obsession with a Director of Football. As shown this summer we have a team of scouts who identify and recommend players. The manager whoever that is then gives approval on said player. I fail to see what’s wrong with this method.

I see a lot of people saying Ed Woodward is inexperienced. He’s been doing this for 7 years now. He knows what he’s doing a director of football isn’t going to change how we operate.
Let me give you an example of what a DOF is like and why is he needed.

Del Piero was heading towards the end of his career at Juventus and he needed replacing. The DOF thought that he was earning silly money for what he was contributed and therefore decided not to renew his contract. The player was livid and he went to the manager for support. The manager backed him but there was little he could do as contract handling is not part of his job. Ultimately they came to a consensus were Del Piero would accept a huge pay cut and he'll accept a lesser role in exchange of a new contract. Del Piero was happy that his manager backed him and no love was lost with the manager when his last contract ended and he left the club.

Now let's imagine that the DOF didn't existed. The manager would either have to suck it up and stay without the new player he needs or else kick Del Piero out which would have caused a revolt at the dressing room level. The manager is totally dependent on his players so he'll probably opt for the former. That means that the team would have ended up weaker with funds being spent on a player whose clearly not good enough anymore. The manager might decide to play a kid instead but he needed to be careful as he risked humiliating the club legend by keeping him on the bench too much.

DOFs sit a board level. They are protected from team politics and that something players have to accept. Also being out of politics mean that the DOF own nothing to no one. Which means when the manager comes knocking at his door asking for matey Fellaini, matey Matic, matey Josh King or matey Bastian then the DOF will be quick to show him the finger.
 

Seanus

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No. That's a terrible idea. "United DNA" is a frustrating buzz word that's just used to prop up candidates. It's akin to the daft MOTD analysis we'd watch from Alan Hansan - "he has pace, he's fast, and he has desire"
ok thanks for explaining.......
 

devilish

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Haaland was just an example not exactly with regard on his failed signing went. I was saying, sometimes a player needs assurances about his role in the team and Woodward/Judge isnt best placed to offer a convincing assurance but a DoF, being a football person, has the authority to convince a player whilst ED and Judge are more inclined to major on the financial aspects.

The Pogba situation was badly managed in 2019, he was coming off a big season but United were too scared to move him on. Turns out Bruno would have been an adequate replacement and selling Pogba for £80m would have given us the space to sign a midfielder or a CB. It's a perfect example of why we need a DOF.
If United had a top DOF then agents won't need to call Evra to put them through the club because Judge can't be bothered to pick up the phone. Players like Meunier will find themselves a person who understand football and who know the player inside out rather then a banker who keeps asking silly questions like the player's age or how long he's been playing at PSG. Not to forget that Ole would probably have Cavani, Diallo and Pellistri for preseason rather then having to wait for them till the end of the transfer window/January. That's particularly good for Diallo as we basically fecked 4 months of football development for him as he was left in limbo at Atalanta rather then playing week in week out with Parma. These are the things a DOF would do.
 

AneRu

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If United had a top DOF then agents won't need to call Evra to put them through the club because Judge can't be bothered to pick up the phone. Players like Meunier will find themselves a person who understand football and who know the player inside out rather then a banker who keeps asking silly questions like the player's age or how long he's been playing at PSG. Not to forget that Ole would probably have Cavani, Diallo and Pellistri for preseason rather then having to wait for them till the end of the transfer window/January. That's particularly good for Diallo as we basically fecked 4 months of football development for him as he was left in limbo at Atalanta rather then playing week in week out with Parma. These are the things a DOF would do.
True and people think that we are just advocating for any DOF, that DOF has to be the 'best in class' like what Gary Neville said. Its pointless to pick up another former player and install them.as DOF because he will be terrible especially for an inaugural appointment.

We spent £200m on our first choice defense (Shaw 30m, Maguire 90m, Lindelof 30m and AWB 50m) and yet every single one of these players can be upgraded on. Half of that defense was during the much touted cultural reboot so we cant blame it on big bad Jose and LVG. You can't look at Maguire and AWB playing and say 'yeah this was the best way to spend £140m', you just can't. Now we have another player, VDB, who we signed and the manager doesn't know how to use or even wish to use him.
 

Plymouth Red

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I love Edwin but he is not a DOF. Its like asking prime Cantona to cover the GK role or prime VDS to play as a striker alongside RVN. We need to be smart and hire people whose got experience in that role.
I think Edwin is CEO at Ajax and Overmars is DOF, hence Ed’s likel lack of support for bringing them on board. However, the Glazers may see things differently.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Curious who'll be the new fall guy if this will happen. All I see is just hiring someone who will take many of the blame away from Ed. A good and sensible will notice right away the power structure at United is not ideal, basically they're just signing to take that roles -- being a target of blame, and don't have much power/influence. It's pointless. There are already people who blamed Judge only and not Ed at all for the contract negotiation mess.

So I expect the new DOF will either be a naive director or a shit incompetent and irresponsible one that is only here for the paycheck.
 

AneRu

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Curious who'll be the new fall guy if this will happen. All I see is just hiring someone who will take many of the blame away from Ed. A good and sensible will notice right away the power structure at United is not ideal, basically they're just signing to take that roles -- being a target of blame, and don't have much power/influence. It's pointless. There are already people who blamed Judge only and not Ed at all for the contract negotiation mess.

So I expect the new DOF will either be a naive director or a shit incompetent and irresponsible one that is only here for the paycheck.
I think we have two problems at United - we have a terrible CEO and an inadequate structure that doesn't give football people a place at the high table. A good DOF will mitigate the damage Woodward can do but eventually it is he who has to go.
 

Monkey bus

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Genuine question, does anybody know is the Director of Football’s role thought to be solely centred on recruitment or will it be a broader remit (I.e involvement in the youth teams, player welfare etc)?

If only recruitment then DOF is a bit of a grand title which is pretty misleading.

Can‘t see any reasons not to try this out.

I do feel sorry for that person though when a player we‘re even slightly linked with goes to one of our rivals and starts putting in match winning performances. They’ll be lynched on here.
 

Adnan

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DoF's have a longer shelf life than managers/Head Coaches in football and that really isn't even a debate.. Marc Overmars who is one of the names reported to be on the short list has been in his current job, longer than all our post Fergie managers combined.
 

Adnan

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I think if reports are true that it's the Glazer's who are making the potential appointment, then I for one believe they'll give the new man a lot of power in the transfer market and the day to day running of the football side of the club.

I can also see the Glazer's appointing Luis Campos for the role due to his track record of getting a big bang for his buck. He's also a free agent currently.
 

AneRu

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Hook, line and sinker before an upcoming transfer window
With the Glazers you never truly know but to be honest an appointment like this benefits them the most because it they who pick up the tab when poor signings are made. Imagine being convinced to push out the boat for a £90m defender then being asked to form out for another defender just 18 months later because your £90m CB needs a faster babysitter to cover for his weaknesses.

The Glazers beat the brunt of the criticism, rightly so, but the structure we have has been responsible for over a billion pounds spent with the Europa being the only notable trophy we have won since Fergie. They look like they don't care but it's got to hurt a little when looking at the figures that have been spent over the years.
 

clarkydaz

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With the Glazers you never truly know but to be honest an appointment like this benefits them the most because it they who pick up the tab when poor signings are made. Imagine being convinced to push out the boat for a £90m defender then being asked to form out for another defender just 18 months later because your £90m CB needs a faster babysitter to cover for his weaknesses.

The Glazers beat the brunt of the criticism, rightly so, but the structure we have has been responsible for over a billion pounds spent with the Europa being the only notable trophy we have won since Fergie. They look like they don't care but it's got to hurt a little when looking at the figures that have been spent over the years.
i agree with what you say, i only go off what we have seen so far and leave with a feeling all they do is extract money and hoodwink a fanbase every year when needed. if they were that concerned about wastage they would have fixed Woodward/Judge years ago. Last time it was Rio/Fletcher which in itself is laughable, serving only to spare them any fan uproar for another coupe of years
 

treble_winner

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What about Ribalta? He was already here and moved to a DOF job at Zenit. He was supposed to be a talented recruiter but he left before he could have much influence here
I had a hunch he was having a bad working relationship with Woodward here. Otherwise why leaving a big club like us so soon?
 

Ali Dia

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I had a hunch he was having a bad working relationship with Woodward here. Otherwise why leaving a big club like us so soon?
i think he left because the zenit dof was a step up from being a scout here but ya there were murmurs that he wasn’t given enough power to change anything. I’m also not sure how zenit have been doing but his work at Juve was top notch.
 

AneRu

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i agree with what you say, i only go off what we have seen so far and leave with a feeling all they do is extract money and hoodwink a fanbase every year when needed. if they were that concerned about wastage they would have fixed Woodward/Judge years ago. Last time it was Rio/Fletcher which in itself is laughable, serving only to spare them any fan uproar for another coupe of years
I think that in spite of the money they take out they still have spent massive amounts of money and authorized some eye watering wage deals. I think it's a case of an egomaniacal CEO thinking he can do it all but making costly blunders all over the place.

The financial parameters that we operate under aren't exactly limiting but the judgement just isnt there at all.
 

Rightnr

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I am more likely to believe we're signing Ronaldo and Messi in the summer than us getting a proper DoF who is both competent and given enough power.

People need to stop being so gullible.
 

Adnan

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I am more likely to believe we're signing Ronaldo and Messi in the summer than us getting a proper DoF who is both competent and given enough power.

People need to stop being so gullible.
It's not us fans that will be the gullible ones but rather the Glazer's.
 

devilish

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It's not us fans that will be the gullible ones but rather the Glazer's.
Yep. They are the ones forking 80m on the likes of Maguire and paying silly money to keep Jones at the club till the end of times.
 

AneRu

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It's not us fans that will be the gullible ones but rather the Glazer's.
People don't recognize whose interests a DOF serves, for example when Mkhitaryan turned into a pile of sh*t and we had to give him away so as to get Sanchez, who also flopped, it is the Glazers' club and effectively them that picked up the tab for Woodward and Jose's mistakes.

I also don't think that there is a DOF that expects to come in and be dictating the transfer budget to Woodward and the Glazers. He will work within a budget approved by them and they have shown previously that they arent averse to spending big on players. What the club needs is better judgement, continuity and preparedness.
 

Gopher Brown

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Genuine question, does anybody know is the Director of Football’s role thought to be solely centred on recruitment or will it be a broader remit (I.e involvement in the youth teams, player welfare etc)?

If only recruitment then DOF is a bit of a grand title which is pretty misleading.

Can‘t see any reasons not to try this out.

I do feel sorry for that person though when a player we‘re even slightly linked with goes to one of our rivals and starts putting in match winning performances. They’ll be lynched on here.
I don’t think anyone here has the first clue about what a DoF does. All we know is we definitely need one.

For me, it feels like someone else to direct vitriol at and call to be sacked when we still aren’t winning anything in 3 years’ time.
 

Adnan

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People don't recognize whose interests a DOF serves, for example when Mkhitaryan turned into a pile of sh*t and we had to give him away so as to get Sanchez, who also flopped, it is the Glazers' club and effectively them that picked up the tab for Woodward and Jose's mistakes.

I also don't think that there is a DOF that expects to come in and be dictating the transfer budget to Woodward and the Glazers. He will work within a budget approved by them and they have shown previously that they arent averse to spending big on players. What the club needs is better judgement, continuity and preparedness.
Exactly. We've paid out more than double for Maguire and AWB and both players don't fit into the high tempo game Ole spoke about implementing for different reasons. Ole also should've known that Maguire and AWB would cost a huge amount from fellow PL clubs. Spending 15m rising to 18m for Dan James who wasn't exactly pulling up any trees in the Championship was money that could've been spent better if we broadened our horizons IMO.


No one likes to look like a mug and the Glazer's have been looking just that for several years now. Woodward picks up his annual salary every year but it's the Glazer's who are taking the hit on their investment and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Joel Glazer is now about to take some responsibility and finally appoint someone who will provide the stability/continuity that the club has been yearning for since the great man retired in 2013.
 

Foxbatt

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He is the one who is going to ask the coach what the eff is going on if we are screwing up in tactics and set pieces too.
 

Zen

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What the feck difference does it make except another person on the payroll making odd decisions? No, seriously, I don't get the DoF role at all and I know I'm obviously not alone....
 

Plymouth Red

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I don’t think anyone here has the first clue about what a DoF does. All we know is we definitely need one.

For me, it feels like someone else to direct vitriol at and call to be sacked when we still aren’t winning anything in 3 years’ time.
I agree that there’s a number of interpretations of the role and its responsibility.
Here are a couple of links to articles which gi a good insight, especially on a German perspective of the role.

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/...russia-dortmund-rb-leipzig-schalke-506859.jsp

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/wha...transfer-chief-role/sy0nzby7kl6j1irjue09n4eog

A key aspect of the DOF role is usually to recruit to a team and sty profile. You know how you want to play, you know how you want from each position and this allows you to focus on the right individuals for specific positions.
This is the aspect of recruiting a DOF which feels hard for us currently. I don’t know if we can articulate clearly what we stand for on the pitch.
 

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Let me give you an example of what a DOF is like and why is he needed.

Del Piero was heading towards the end of his career at Juventus and he needed replacing. The DOF thought that he was earning silly money for what he was contributed and therefore decided not to renew his contract. The player was livid and he went to the manager for support. The manager backed him but there was little he could do as contract handling is not part of his job. Ultimately they came to a consensus were Del Piero would accept a huge pay cut and he'll accept a lesser role in exchange of a new contract. Del Piero was happy that his manager backed him and no love was lost with the manager when his last contract ended and he left the club.

Now let's imagine that the DOF didn't existed. The manager would either have to suck it up and stay without the new player he needs or else kick Del Piero out which would have caused a revolt at the dressing room level. The manager is totally dependent on his players so he'll probably opt for the former. That means that the team would have ended up weaker with funds being spent on a player whose clearly not good enough anymore. The manager might decide to play a kid instead but he needed to be careful as he risked humiliating the club legend by keeping him on the bench too much.

DOFs sit a board level. They are protected from team politics and that something players have to accept. Also being out of politics mean that the DOF own nothing to no one. Which means when the manager comes knocking at his door asking for matey Fellaini, matey Matic, matey Josh King or matey Bastian then the DOF will be quick to show him the finger.
Thanks for that, I must admit I'm confused by the whole DOF thing and I dont fully understand it, the above does help to a point, but it still doesnt sit right with me.

In the Del Piero story it worked out, but i'm assuming there must be a number of alternative's where the stories ending wasnt as positive. In this example, had Del Piero decided to leave, that would have potentially been a massive issue for the manager and his style of play - fundamentally, the DOF wouldnt know the detail and potentially the value a player brings, to the manager, the team and other players.

I dont understand how a DOF at Board level as you say, and in their ivory tower can really understand the intricacies of the team. I do appreciate the point around team politics, but in a sense, is that not part of running a team? Is it not the same as an Operations Director of a manufacturer, sitting at Board level but not having a grip on personnel within the production line?
 

Kaos

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I've been hearing this nonsense since Moyes was sacked. Much like our tedious transfer speculation, I'll believe it when I see it.
 

glazed

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I see a lot of people saying Ed Woodward is inexperienced. He’s been doing this for 7 years now. He knows what he’s doing
He does know what he's doing. He's putting profit and marketing before football. A DoF might change that, which is why it won't happen in substance.
 

Cassidy

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Never understood the obsession with a Director of Football. As shown this summer we have a team of scouts who identify and recommend players. The manager whoever that is then gives approval on said player. I fail to see what’s wrong with this method.

I see a lot of people saying Ed Woodward is inexperienced. He’s been doing this for 7 years now. He knows what he’s doing a director of football isn’t going to change how we operate.
Doing something for 7 years doesnt mean you know what you’re doing
 

M Bison

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I agree that there’s a number of interpretations of the role and its responsibility.
Here are a couple of links to articles which gi a good insight, especially on a German perspective of the role.

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/...russia-dortmund-rb-leipzig-schalke-506859.jsp

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/wha...transfer-chief-role/sy0nzby7kl6j1irjue09n4eog

A key aspect of the DOF role is usually to recruit to a team and sty profile. You know how you want to play, you know how you want from each position and this allows you to focus on the right individuals for specific positions.
This is the aspect of recruiting a DOF which feels hard for us currently. I don’t know if we can articulate clearly what we stand for on the pitch.
Possibly me being old-fashioned, but that seems to be the managers job? Or should a DOF tell the manager/coach the style of play? So if its Liverpool and they brought another DOF in, they'd potentially stop with the "high-press" because a DOF would prefer a different style?
 
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