I think Carlos might break here because Novak's serve also looked like it deserted him. If it goes to a TB though, yup, favor Novak.
Tennis 2023
- Thread starter GuybrushThreepwood
- Start date
Carlos going so aggressive stepping into the second serve.
Carlos starting the TB with a DF cannot help.
Djokovic showing who is the real king of defense there. Unreal stuff.
Carlos' second serve approaches this last 5 minutes have been just really poor. He's fading away in this TB.
He got joy off sneaking in to stay in that set but now it's every second serve and just daft.
Rather than do that id like to see him use the drop shot or come in on the long points, he clearly doesn't overly want to be in them and they favour Djoko since the second set.
Exactly. Djokovic knows exactly what Carlos will be doing on every second serve now. Worked this time though, just about!
A very attractive crowd it has to be said.
He's not had massive success with the drop shots today so I feel he's kind of given up on that.
This time it's probably over.
Stay back on one second serve ffs.
Yet another absolutely shocking return on a second serve and Djokovic wins.
Weirdly feels like a bigger win for Novak that.
Dunno how real his issues were in the first, minor I suspect. Carlos will know he should have won it in straight sets but after that it was a great watch if not always the highest quality.
Dunno how real his issues were in the first, minor I suspect. Carlos will know he should have won it in straight sets but after that it was a great watch if not always the highest quality.
If Novak lost this, this would have been the end I think. Novak saved his career for another year or so with this win.
Probably a bit OTT.
feck I love Alcaraz. Having a wee cry.
What a match. Love seeing the top two go at it. Hope we get many more finals between these two while jokers body holds up. What a monster physically Nole is.
I just alwyas find it strange when commentators fall for the whole Djokovic looking out of it performance and then behave surprised when he finds a way to win 3 hours later. It's happened countless times and they still act surprised.
We need these two to keep making finals while Djoko is still around given the others are clowns in comparison. Need a final in New York!
This is probably the greatest Masters match I've seen since Novak vs Rafa in the Madrid semifinal 10-11 years ago.
excactly and many fans buys it every time. in reality it happens in every big match.
Great pottery throwdown nailed the trophy.
Interviews were as good as the match!
Yup. I don't think he fakes it and he might genuinely be facing issues in the moment which, some painkillers and pills, along with adrenaline, solves soon enough. It was just today's commentators behaving supremely surprised that Djokovic managed to dig this out and that he looked dead and buried in the second set which surprised me. It's almost like they've never watched Novak recover from countless near death and retirement moments in big tennis matches and run around like an energizer bunny at the end of the match
I mean all important moments of the match were not affected by the medical timeout. Both players had few chances to win and lose this match and somehow it went to the distance. I can't say how genuine Novak's medical timeout was but from where I was seating it looked clear that he was physically struggling with the heat. Everything he has done was done with the permission of the umpire.Yup. I don't think he fakes it and he might genuinely be facing issues in the moment which, some painkillers and pills, along with adrenaline, solves soon enough. It was just today's commentators behaving supremely surprised that Djokovic managed to dig this out and that he looked dead and buried in the second set which surprised me. It's almost like they've never watched Novak recover from countless near death and retirement moments in big tennis matches and run around like an energizer bunny at the end of the match
Oh I'm not blaming him or saying he faked it and he was obviously affected by the heat (which was also the same for both) but I'm just speaking about commentators continuing to be surprised that Djokovic has managed to recover. We've seen loads and loads of times over the years that no matter how dead and buried Novak may appear to look, he'll be absolutely fine to finish the match and he's more likely to win than lose. I think Carlos did quite well not to be distracted by it but he just got a little complacent in between 4-2 and 4-4 in that second set and it ultimately cost him.
I didn't understand the overly negative spin that I read on the Wimbledon final 5 weeks ago from Djokovic's perspective (obviously from Alcaraz's perspective it was enormous and a huge positive). He lost a grand slam final against an incredibly talented opponent in 5 sets, after winning the previous 2 grand slams of the year and the previous 3 that he had competed it. Predictions that he was finished, would struggle to win another grand slam title etc., seemed a bit premature. Ultimately he was expected to lose to Alcaraz in the semi-finals at RG and win the Wimbledon title, but the script was reversed, though from his perspective a 3rd RG title was better for his legacy (becoming the first man to win every grand slam at least 3 times) than an 8th Wimbledon title would have been IMO.
Both players certainly gave us another treat yesterday, and it will be interesting to see how they both do at the US Open. I said previously that Djokovic has simultaneously overachieved at Wimbledon and underachieved at the US Open title-wise during his career. He could easily have something like 4 Wimbledon titles and 6 US Open titles, instead of 7 Wimbledon titles and 3 US Open titles.
Tennis is about more than the grand slams, and Djokovic's record in masters series events has been insane. Since the masters series events were created / branded in 1990, Agassi won 7/9 missing Monte-Carlo and Hamburg (although he regularly skipped both of those events alongside the other top US players), Nadal is missing Miami (losing in 5 finals) and Paris, Federer never won Monte-Carlo (losing in 4 finals) and Rome (losing in 4 finals), Sampras won 5/9 missing Monte-Carlo, Hamburg, Canada and Stuttgart (which later relocated to Madrid), and Murray 7/9 missing Indian Wells and Monte-Carlo. Djokovic has now won 8 out of the 9 masters series events at least 3 times, and the remaining one Monte-Carlo twice.
Both players certainly gave us another treat yesterday, and it will be interesting to see how they both do at the US Open. I said previously that Djokovic has simultaneously overachieved at Wimbledon and underachieved at the US Open title-wise during his career. He could easily have something like 4 Wimbledon titles and 6 US Open titles, instead of 7 Wimbledon titles and 3 US Open titles.
Tennis is about more than the grand slams, and Djokovic's record in masters series events has been insane. Since the masters series events were created / branded in 1990, Agassi won 7/9 missing Monte-Carlo and Hamburg (although he regularly skipped both of those events alongside the other top US players), Nadal is missing Miami (losing in 5 finals) and Paris, Federer never won Monte-Carlo (losing in 4 finals) and Rome (losing in 4 finals), Sampras won 5/9 missing Monte-Carlo, Hamburg, Canada and Stuttgart (which later relocated to Madrid), and Murray 7/9 missing Indian Wells and Monte-Carlo. Djokovic has now won 8 out of the 9 masters series events at least 3 times, and the remaining one Monte-Carlo twice.
FAA in R4 is tough
I take it you've not been following him at all this season? He's not won a single title, he's not won more than 4 matches at any tournament, and in the last 5-6 tournaments he's played, he rarely goes beyond the second round. I'll be stunned if he even makes it to R4.
I haven't, just thought he would finally live up to the hype this year
The US Open is the one grand slam that Djokovic has unfinished business at, and has underachieved at title-wise during his career. Winning 3 titles at any tournament is very nice going, but the fact that such an amazing hard court player has won the tournament fewer times than Nadal stands out.
After he lost the Wimbledon final, I did wonder if that would actually help his US Open chances, since he wouldn't face the huge pressure of trying to complete the calendar grand slam. He went into the 2021 US Open facing more pressure than Federer or Nadal have ever faced at any individual grand slam.
On the women's side, Gauff's improvement while working with both Riba and Gilbert this summer, resulting in title wins in DC and Cincy, has been pretty drastic, notably with her forehand. I never understood people criticising her personally for the hype around her since 2019. It's not like she has predicted herself that she's going to win a large number of grand slams, written glowing articles about herself etc. What ESPN, McEnroe, Evert say about her is of course completely beyond her control. And at the age of just 19 years old, bearing in mind that due to sporting trends a 19 year old tennis player in 2023 is relatively speaking younger than a 19 year old in 1993 or 2003 for example, she has won 5 titles, reached a grand slam final and several more quarter-finals etc., so she has done very well so far.
After he lost the Wimbledon final, I did wonder if that would actually help his US Open chances, since he wouldn't face the huge pressure of trying to complete the calendar grand slam. He went into the 2021 US Open facing more pressure than Federer or Nadal have ever faced at any individual grand slam.
On the women's side, Gauff's improvement while working with both Riba and Gilbert this summer, resulting in title wins in DC and Cincy, has been pretty drastic, notably with her forehand. I never understood people criticising her personally for the hype around her since 2019. It's not like she has predicted herself that she's going to win a large number of grand slams, written glowing articles about herself etc. What ESPN, McEnroe, Evert say about her is of course completely beyond her control. And at the age of just 19 years old, bearing in mind that due to sporting trends a 19 year old tennis player in 2023 is relatively speaking younger than a 19 year old in 1993 or 2003 for example, she has won 5 titles, reached a grand slam final and several more quarter-finals etc., so she has done very well so far.
I think Djokovic is a shoe in for the US Open at this point. Tsitsipas is not a threat and Rune possible won't get that far.
I can see Alcaraz having a bit of mental burnout as we get closer to the end of the season. It's been pretty intense for him.
I can see Alcaraz having a bit of mental burnout as we get closer to the end of the season. It's been pretty intense for him.
Even ignoring potential mental fatigue I think Alcaraz's draw is quite tricky too.
Going forward Alcaraz will need to dial down the intensity and fighting spirt that he shows in smaller tournaments, so that he has more left in the tank for the grand slams and big tournaments, and to sustain success over as long a period of time as possible.
There's a balance to be had though. A mentality that 'only grand slams matter', which Sampras really pushed in the 90s, is very damaging for the sport, as the more interest there is throughout the season and not just at 4 grand slams, the better.
I remember the young Nadal would fight just as hard in every match that he played, regardless of the tournament, round and opponent. For example during his 2008 Chennai semi-final against Moya, he saved 3 match points and won it in nearly 4 hours. Now in the grand scheme of things, whether or not he won a Chennai semi-final (and he was totally spent for the final the next day) wasn't significant for his career, or in the immediate term for his Australian Open prospects. I think the following year, he pushed his body to the limit to try and win a title in Rotterdam (I think he lost to Murray in the final). He then learned that he needed to pick his battles and conserve his energy as much as possible. A few years later, I remember watching him play Tsonga at Queen's, losing the 2nd tiebreak, and then basically not bothering to compete or exert himself in the 3rd set. That made perfect sense, as he had already played a huge number of matches during the season, and whether or not he beat Tsonga at Queen's (I think that was in 2011 when he had won Wimbledon the last 2 times he entered it), was irrelevant for his Wimbledon title chances, he just needed to get some match practice on grass beforehand.
There's a balance to be had though. A mentality that 'only grand slams matter', which Sampras really pushed in the 90s, is very damaging for the sport, as the more interest there is throughout the season and not just at 4 grand slams, the better.
I remember the young Nadal would fight just as hard in every match that he played, regardless of the tournament, round and opponent. For example during his 2008 Chennai semi-final against Moya, he saved 3 match points and won it in nearly 4 hours. Now in the grand scheme of things, whether or not he won a Chennai semi-final (and he was totally spent for the final the next day) wasn't significant for his career, or in the immediate term for his Australian Open prospects. I think the following year, he pushed his body to the limit to try and win a title in Rotterdam (I think he lost to Murray in the final). He then learned that he needed to pick his battles and conserve his energy as much as possible. A few years later, I remember watching him play Tsonga at Queen's, losing the 2nd tiebreak, and then basically not bothering to compete or exert himself in the 3rd set. That made perfect sense, as he had already played a huge number of matches during the season, and whether or not he beat Tsonga at Queen's (I think that was in 2011 when he had won Wimbledon the last 2 times he entered it), was irrelevant for his Wimbledon title chances, he just needed to get some match practice on grass beforehand.
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He's so overrated.
Men's game is so weak right now. Alcaraz is going to clean up when/if Djokovic slows down a bit.
Unfortunately not, he's been crap.