Sacha " Tottenham Hotspur" Zverev.
Tennis 2024
- Thread starter Jippy
- Start date
Hope Sinner wins it now. Such an exciting player. That power he creates is something else
He's missed some big points at the net, but I don't think Zverev has bottled this like he has in previous matches.
Also having seen the replay of the Medvedev return dropshot winner in the tiebreak, it very much looks intentional, even if very unlike him.
Also having seen the replay of the Medvedev return dropshot winner in the tiebreak, it very much looks intentional, even if very unlike him.
Didn't watch the match afer the first sets, but wasn't that surprised Zverev lost once it got to five sets. Dude has played so many tough matches in this tournament.
He said in the post-game interview that the slice was intentional but the dropshot definitely wasn't, he kinda mishit it and it got carried by the wind.
I'm delighted with both semi-final results.
Sinner was brilliant against Djokovic, serving impeccably and comprehensively outplaying him. I'd argue that a straight sets win would have been a more accurate reflection of Sinner's dominance over Djokovic today, than a 4 set win. Djokovic, i.e. one of the greatest returners of all-time, not having a single break point was an astounding stat. As has been already said, this is the first grand slam match of his career in which he didn’t earn a single break point. Even when he was 17 years old and won 3 games against the eventual champion Safin at the Australian Open in 2005, he still had a break point (and converted it).
And as I've said a few times before, I think that Zverev is the most unlikeable 'big name' player around. I loathe him, and hope he remains slamless. While I don't find Medvedev to be a hugely exciting player to watch style-wise, I still find him more interesting to watch than Zverev, and also think that he is a much more likeable person (especially off the court - he is one of the most intelligent players male or female around). Zverev losing from 2 sets to love up, is even more pleasing to me than him getting destroyed would have been.
I want Sinner to win on Sunday, and think that him becoming a grand slam champion would be a big boost for men's tennis. However I would be happy for Medvedev if he 'finally' strikes gold in Melbourne as well. It's easy to forget that Medvedev was actually the bookies' favourite going in to the 2021 Australian Open final against Djokovic, due to his 20 match winning streak at the time. A year later, he was the pretty clear favourite to beat Nadal going in to the 2022 final (and the manner of his defeat that day 'broke' him for a period). This time Sinner will start as the favourite, especially with him beating Medvedev 3 times in a row during the back end of last season.
Sinner was brilliant against Djokovic, serving impeccably and comprehensively outplaying him. I'd argue that a straight sets win would have been a more accurate reflection of Sinner's dominance over Djokovic today, than a 4 set win. Djokovic, i.e. one of the greatest returners of all-time, not having a single break point was an astounding stat. As has been already said, this is the first grand slam match of his career in which he didn’t earn a single break point. Even when he was 17 years old and won 3 games against the eventual champion Safin at the Australian Open in 2005, he still had a break point (and converted it).
And as I've said a few times before, I think that Zverev is the most unlikeable 'big name' player around. I loathe him, and hope he remains slamless. While I don't find Medvedev to be a hugely exciting player to watch style-wise, I still find him more interesting to watch than Zverev, and also think that he is a much more likeable person (especially off the court - he is one of the most intelligent players male or female around). Zverev losing from 2 sets to love up, is even more pleasing to me than him getting destroyed would have been.
I want Sinner to win on Sunday, and think that him becoming a grand slam champion would be a big boost for men's tennis. However I would be happy for Medvedev if he 'finally' strikes gold in Melbourne as well. It's easy to forget that Medvedev was actually the bookies' favourite going in to the 2021 Australian Open final against Djokovic, due to his 20 match winning streak at the time. A year later, he was the pretty clear favourite to beat Nadal going in to the 2022 final (and the manner of his defeat that day 'broke' him for a period). This time Sinner will start as the favourite, especially with him beating Medvedev 3 times in a row during the back end of last season.
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Do I agree with all of those people calling me the Lucky Scout of the tennis forum? Not for me to say. I am just a guy with an Internet connection.
Zverev arguably has the best backhand in tennis right now (and at least one of the top 3 backhands before his injury problems at Roland Garros in 2022). But he is mentally weak, as most visibly highlighted during the 2020 US Open final, and like a lot 'bland academy style' players, lacks variety, spontaneity etc.
Medvedev winning on Sunday would at least improve the incredibly embarrassing stat, of 90s born players only winning 2 men's singles grand slam titles. Each of the big 3's grand slam title counts were clearly inflated by the weakness of the 90s born players (who took an eternity to overtake the likes of David Ferrer and Tomas Berdych, plus other factors such as increased homogenisation in playing conditions, styles etc.
But Sinner is a very exciting player to watch, far more so than Medvedev IMO, and him winning on Sunday, could be the start of a new era. I think that Alcaraz will come back strongly, and I really want to enjoy an exciting rivalry between the 2 of them.
While Djokovic was completely schooled today at a place where he has been so dominant (having never previously lost an Australian Open semi-final or final match), I'm certainly not prepared to write off his chances of winning his much coveted 25th grand slam title yet, especially at Wimbledon with such little depth in competition on grass (although that could be improving if Alcaraz maintains his standard from last year, Sinner does well on it etc.)
Medvedev winning on Sunday would at least improve the incredibly embarrassing stat, of 90s born players only winning 2 men's singles grand slam titles. Each of the big 3's grand slam title counts were clearly inflated by the weakness of the 90s born players (who took an eternity to overtake the likes of David Ferrer and Tomas Berdych, plus other factors such as increased homogenisation in playing conditions, styles etc.
But Sinner is a very exciting player to watch, far more so than Medvedev IMO, and him winning on Sunday, could be the start of a new era. I think that Alcaraz will come back strongly, and I really want to enjoy an exciting rivalry between the 2 of them.
While Djokovic was completely schooled today at a place where he has been so dominant (having never previously lost an Australian Open semi-final or final match), I'm certainly not prepared to write off his chances of winning his much coveted 25th grand slam title yet, especially at Wimbledon with such little depth in competition on grass (although that could be improving if Alcaraz maintains his standard from last year, Sinner does well on it etc.)
Couldn't it also be argued that all these 90's born players had the bad luck of having to play 3 of the greatest players of all time? I agree they've all been thoroughly meh, but who's to say it's not precisly because of the dominance of Nadal, Federer and Djokovic.
Though I guess it is quite telling that when Djokovic and Nadal finally retire I have no idea who will be on top. I'm guessing Alcaraz, but he's not been as invincible as he seemed to be when he burst on the scene.
Sinner I believe will end up as more successful than Alcaraz once he wins his first.
but I will be rooting for Med on sunday.
but I will be rooting for Med on sunday.
As I said in that post, the fact that the 90s born players basically needed to wait for the likes of David Ferrer and Tomas Berdych to decline through age, to overtake them (never mind challenging the big 3), and struggled for a long time to even set up regular meetings vs. the big 3 in grand slams, was very revealing to me.
Players born between 1990-1995 (actually 1989-1995) have hardly even won any second tier masters series titles as well, I believe a grand total of 4, which IMO was also quite damning.
And while the big 3, though Djokovic more than Nadal and Nadal more than Federer, have all had periods of brilliance during their 30s, to different extents they were still able to repeatedly put the 90s born players in their place when clearly on the decline. The Djokovic of 2023 was fantastic, but to my eyes was nowhere near as amazing as the Djokovic of 2011 or 2015, Nadal's very best tennis was from 2008-2010 IMO, Federer's from 2004-2006 etc.
That makes sense, the connection was clean but the execution not as intended then
I like Medvedev's personality so I'll be rooting for him. I also don't want him to end up like Andy Murray 2.0 in the AO finals. It would be great for tennis though if Janik wins. Hopefully him and Alcaraz can become the next big tennis rivalry and push eachother to greater levels in the future.
I saw McEnroe saying stuff like father time is unbeatable, but I wouldn't be surprised if this emberrassing loss gives Novak a boost for the rest of the year.
I saw McEnroe saying stuff like father time is unbeatable, but I wouldn't be surprised if this emberrassing loss gives Novak a boost for the rest of the year.
Couldn't watch because of work, but was that the usual Zverev choke or did Medvedev just turn up?
A bit of both. Although Zverev did 2 good sets, his overall bellow average performance on the 1st serve responses ultimately costed him the game on the long run.
That's fair, but Ferrer and Berdych never won a single slam between them. No one in the 90s will come close to what the big 3 did,but I think Medvedev for instance will have a lot more on his tally than Ferrer and Berdych when he's retired.
Thouhgh he does now have the advantage of the big 3 being either gone or on their last legs. I do agree the 90s guys have underwhelmed massively. And that they're bland as feck.
Most sportspeople in the modern era are quite bland. It’s probably a mixture of media and social media magnifying and amplifying every perceived misdeed and also in an era of ultra-professionalism, that will also extend to their communications. Sport and the people who play it have become sanitised by design.
Well either that, or hitting/ kicking a ball around for 90% of your waking hours makes you a bit of a bore. The money and fame sometimes obscure the fact that these sports superstars are just dumb kids. Well less so in tennis than in football I suppose.
i do like Medvedev mind you, he's a bit of a cnut, but open about it.
That's the point though. Ferrer and Berdych never won a single slam between them, and it still took the 90s born players an absolute eternity to overtake them in the rankings / tennis hierarchy. They were unable to overtake Ferrer or Berdych (gatekeepers in the top 10 for a long time) until they both naturally declined through age and were well past their best. The fact they they were not able to overtake them sooner, before they were on the wane through age, reflected very badly on them IMO.
I guess we could separate the early 90s born and late 90s born players. The early 90s born players were basically a black hole in the sport, Thiem was brilliant, Dmitrov could be fun to watch when on form and Nishikori was very talented with a wonderful backhand (he was born on December 29th 1989 but I'll 'allocate' him to the 90s born group), but all in all they were very poor. The late 90s born players, headed by Medvedev, have been much better, but still very underwhelming. Whatever happens on Sunday, Thiem and Medvedev will remain the only 90s born players to have won grand slam titles in singles. If Sinner wins, more slam titles will have been won by 00s born players than 90s born players already, which again will reflect very badly on the 90s born group.
If we compare the best 80s and 90s born players, excluding the big 3 and allocating Nishikori to the 90s born group to give it a leg-up, the 80s born group includes the likes of Murray, Wawrinka, Hewitt, Safin, Roddick, Ferrero, Del Potro, Cilic, Soderling, Davydenko, Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga, Gonzalez etc. An embarrassment of riches. Looking at the highly subjective 'eye test', I think very few 90s born players were / are more talented than the likes of Davydenko, Soderling or Gonzalez (I remember him beating Tommy Haas in an Australian Open semi-final only hitting 3 unforced errors). They were regularly coming up short in big tournaments against a supremely good Federer or Nadal during their absolute peak or at least prime years.
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Baaah reading those names, it really is a boring era now. Guys like Haas, Gonzales, Tsonga... but also Monfils even if always struggling with injuries is far more exciting than the new guys.
The 90s sucked so the 00s could give us Sinner and Alcaraz
Sounds fair. Plus, I wasn't ready to let the oldies go until they started to fade away on their own.
And now, the women. Sabalenka looks such an obvious winner today that it's hard to see Zheng even taking a set. I hope she can surprise me.
No surprise, a straight forward final win for Sabalenka. A good match up against a player who has little big game experience.
Sabalenka has been far and away the best player in the tournament this year, on either the women’s or men’s side.
The only time that Sabalenka faced any real pressure was against Gauff the semis. She impressively defended her title without dropping a set.
I can't root for her because I find her screaming / shrieking to be pretty unbearable (I also couldn't like Sharapova and Azarenka for that reason although Sabalenka seems to be a far more friendly person and likeable character than either of them). But she has clearly worked hard to improve her serve in recent years, and her consistent big hitting is difficult to deal with. She certainly has the ability to rack up more grand slam title wins, including this year.
I can't root for her because I find her screaming / shrieking to be pretty unbearable (I also couldn't like Sharapova and Azarenka for that reason although Sabalenka seems to be a far more friendly person and likeable character than either of them). But she has clearly worked hard to improve her serve in recent years, and her consistent big hitting is difficult to deal with. She certainly has the ability to rack up more grand slam title wins, including this year.
Monfils' athleticism was incredible, and it's always fun watching highlight reels of his shots and 'retrievals'. I did find it frustrating that with his size and power, he'd sometimes revert to playing passive tennis, but when he more proactive he was a lot of fun to watch.
There is talk about sports constantly getting better over the time, the talent pool constantly improving and becoming deeper and deeper. I just don't see how that can be the case in men's tennis.
Tennis participation has noticeably decreased during the past 20-30 years in many major markets, the USA, Western Europe in general (even in Spain participation has declined during the past 10-15 years), Japan, Australia, Brazil etc. It's difficult to find splits by gender, but I'd bet that female participation has held up much better than male participation, as for males there are way more well funded, well organised sporting alternatives available. Participation has increased in numerous countries, notably China, but I don't think that comes close to offsetting the decreases in other big markets. So that indicates to me that the overall pool of talent has actually decreased. There was already a lot of depth in the men's top 100 in the 90s for example. I honestly don't think that there is any more depth in the top 100 nowadays.
On top of that, since the 90s the money on offer to men in the major team sports / leagues has exploded and continue to explode, leaving sports like tennis trailing further and further behind. I read that the 1991 Wimbledon champion Michael Stich prioritised football over tennis as a kid, and only chose to focus on tennis instead of football at the age of 16/17. If he grew up in the 21st century, or maybe even in the 90s, surely he'd chose football over tennis, as football would be a far more lucrative and glamorous career option. Andre Agassi's dad said that if he could do things again, he'd push his son to play baseball or golf instead of tennis. That indicates that professional men's tennis (a different story in women's tennis) is much less likely to attract athletes that could potentially do well in other sports as well, and is more likely to get 'athletic leftovers'.
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It’s also pretty amazing to think Sabalenka has won multiple Grand Slams after overcoming a case of the yips. It takes incredible mental strength to do that.
Yes she has lost a lot of semi-final matches at grand slams that she could / should have won. Her consistency at the grand slams was already very impressive though. She has the ability to put together a period of at least 'mini-domination', or at least enjoy an incredibly strong season like Swiatek did in 2022. Winning grand slam titles is already impressive enough, and winning multiple grand slam titles during the same year takes things to another level IMO.
It will be interesting to see how the likes of Swiatek and Rybakina respond, following their disappointingly early exits at this tournament. Gauff (who it's easy to forget is only 19 years old given how long she has been around), has some clear technical areas that she needs to work on, to win more grand slam titles, but she has plenty of time on her side. With Rybakina's 'easy power', the fact that it looked effective on all surfaces, and also the fact that she has often looked so calm on the court, I did think that her winning more grand slam titles after Wimbledon in 2022 was highly likely. But she has increasingly struggled at big tournaments in recent times.
It will be interesting to see how the likes of Swiatek and Rybakina respond, following their disappointingly early exits at this tournament. Gauff (who it's easy to forget is only 19 years old given how long she has been around), has some clear technical areas that she needs to work on, to win more grand slam titles, but she has plenty of time on her side. With Rybakina's 'easy power', the fact that it looked effective on all surfaces, and also the fact that she has often looked so calm on the court, I did think that her winning more grand slam titles after Wimbledon in 2022 was highly likely. But she has increasingly struggled at big tournaments in recent times.
Really? Interesting I find the times right now incredibly exciting. So many talented tennis players that play incredible high speed tennis. Alcaraz, Sinner, Medvedev, Rublev, Rune, Zverev just to name a few. And then you have entertainers like Bublik. I love these times right now.
I suppose it might also be a bit of nostalgia.
Yeah, don’t get that either. The new generation with Alcaraz, Sinner, Rune, Rublev, Tsitsipas etc. play way more exciting, creative, and aggressive tennis than those guys mentioned.
The first part is obvious - drop Medvedev in the 90s with the modern racquets, etc, and I'm not sure he'd lose a point to Sampras at Wimbledon, nevermind a match(yes it's hyperbole). Tennis players are better than ever. Fitter, more athletic, stronger. Nearly all the guys in the top 10 now have monster serves, and great returns too. They have become a necessity.
Talent pool is anothet story, that one is tied to player pool and might very well decrease if interest im practicing the sport wanes
Bleeeeh Tsitsipas.
no one plays more exciting tennis now than Tsonga did. his 3-2 comeback over Fed at Wimbledon and even Gasquet's win over Waw at Wimbledon are more beautiful than any match of these kids. same goes for Nalbandian vs Fed + Gonzales vs Fed, both at tour finals.
Break for Medvedev
Not entirely sure why Sinner was such an insane favourite going into this.... Medvedev is a 6 time finalist and continually underrated. Yet came into this as a bigger underdog than his previous finals vs Novak and Nole, strange.
All of that just made me think Medvedev was going to win
or at least that it wouldn't be as easy as they thought. Medvedev is outplaying Sinner at the momentReally strong play from Medvedev so far.
Sinner needs to be more aggressive. Getting into rallies is just favouring Medvedev.
Anyone got a river? Thanks