Test draft - The Grand Finale - Interval vs Mani

Who will win the test series?


  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

Varun

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Welcome to the big final of the test draft!

  • Judge the players on their peaks excluding any 6-12 month purple patch.
  • Vote for the team you think will win a 3 match test series between these 2 sides based on the given nature of pitches.
  1. 1st test: Good batting pitch.
  2. 2nd test: Slow wicket which gets worse as the game goes on and will assist spinners heavily.
  3. 3rd test: Green top
Team Mani:

1.G.Boycott
2.S.Gavaskar
3.B.Lara
4.G.Chappell
5.C.Lloyd (C)
6.M.Waugh
7.M.Dhoni†
8.M.Holding
9.W.Younis
10.A.Donald
11.M.Ahmed
-
12.L.Malinga (Plays only in the 3nd Test Match wherepace and swing favors bowler in place of M.Ahmed)

Team Interval:

  1. Greenidge
  2. Jaya
  3. Kallis
  4. Sachin
  5. Border
  6. Laxman
  7. Imran Khan
  8. Bairstow
  9. Pollock
  10. Akram
  11. Warne
  12. Saqlain(plays instead of Pollock in the 2nd test)
@Interval who plays when?
 
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Varun

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Mani write up:

Line up


1.G.Boycott
2.S.Gavaskar
3.B.Lara
4.G.Chappell
5.C.Lloyd (C)
6.M.Waugh
7.M.Dhoni†
8.M.Holding
9.W.Younis
10.A.Donald
11.M.Ahmed
-
12.L.Malinga (Plays only in the 3nd Test Match where pace and swing favors bowler in place of M.Ahmed)

Why I'll win.......

Fast bowlers hunt in pair:-

Micheal Holding + Waqar Younis +Allan Donald & L.Malinga


I got the best opening bowling combo in this draft arguably, as M.Holding / W.Younis /Allan Donald as done individually and as a pair with their team mates.Here Waqar/Holding /Donald will test the batsmen with nagging pace accuracy.When ball gets old they can reverse swing the ball plus the toe crushing Yorkers from Waqar/Donald could knock few timber's. S.Jayasurya as opener is more liability than the asset in test format especially in Pacy and Flat wkts against my opening bowling combo of Holding/Waqar/Donald.

Opening batsmen's (Shutting everything at top)

S.Gavaskar / G.Boycott:

At this stage of the draft you need solid openers to deal with opponents opening attack and arguably Gavaskar and Boycott is the best openers to have graced this game,comparatively this two are in far better position to negate with pace, as S.Gavaskar / G.Boycott where the two technically perfect batsmen to deal with Interval's pace trio.These two are perfect in judging the delivery, they know their off stump, they knew the delivery that need to be left out and when to offer shot at the delivery and more importantly they are not flashy which means they are not throwing away their wickets. Their calmness approach would give me better start and safe guard my middle order for long innings.

Captain Fantastic : C.Lloyd

One of the successful captains in the cricket history

Brian Lara - Enough said.

Spinners -Musthaq Ahmed

Leg spin/ googly bowler from sub continent give much needed variety in the spin department.

Middle order: B.Lara/G.Chappell/C.Lloyd/M.Waugh

Batsmen who can stay and produce long innings and equally good on dealing against spin or pace bowling.

Sharp slip fielders :-

M.Waugh-C.Lloyd-S.Gavaskar-G.Chappell- Lara

Partnerships:

Openning - S.Gavaskar / G.Boycott
Middle Order- B.Lara / G.Chappell / C.Lloyd
Lower middle order- M.Waugh / M.Dhoni

Lead men while batting :

Beginning Phase - S.Gavaskar / G.Boycott
Middle Phase- C.Lloyd / G.Chappell /B.Lara
End phase- M.Dhoni

All three had lead their respective country and had guided their team on their crucial match phase,their leadership would come in handy to support the batsmen in the other end and help the team pose a good total.



Whispering Death The Burewala Express The White lightning


The team


Sunil Gavaskar (Ave: 51.12):One of the greatest opening batsmen of all time, Gavaskar's game was built around a near-perfect technique and enormous powers of concentration. It is hard to visualise a more beautiful defence: virtually unbreachable, it made his wicket among the hardest to earn. He played with equal felicity off both front and back feet, had excellent judgement of length and line, and was beautifully balanced. Gavaskar was not only a batsman per excellence. He was a role model. He talked and wrote more about dedication, discipline, determination as the three Ds of success than the most enthusiastic moral science teachers. He was an icon, almost a spiritual guide.

Geoff Boycott (Ave: 47.72): If ever there was a perfect defence which looked almost impenetrable it has to be of Geoffrey Boycott. He was known for his defensive, steady style. The legendary English Test opener was a figure of serenity and calmness on the field. Many called it boring batting, but it ensured that the rest of the batting order had a solid platform to build upon.Many of the English batsmen owe Geoff their centuries as he was the one who removed the shine of the new cherry to make it easier for the batsmen to follow

Brian Lara ( Ave:52.88 Highest 400*):
It has not been that long since Brian Lara’s majestic willow stopped etching those majestic arcs from the high back lift to flourishing follow-throughs. The image of the bent knee and the body and bat coiled like a spring are still fresh in memory, as are the flashes of energy bursting forth, the sound of willow against leather like the pop of the champagne cork, strokes gushing out in liquid grace, flowing in red streaks across the field to the boundary.

Greg Chappell (Ave:53.86): Greg Chappell was a visual delight when in full flow, a graceful, elegant batsman, the toughest of competitors and one of the more combative and controversial characters of the game, perhaps the greatest Australian batsman after Don Bradman.The tall, graceful Chappell was a picture of sublime aesthetics sculpted on the solid foundation of orthodox perfection of methods. His on-drive was the classiest sight in cricket, and even when he played the hook, a stroke normally associated with ferocity and force, he laced it with a touch of artistic elegance.

Clive Lloyd(Ave: 46.67): Clive Lloyd was the crucial ingredient in the rise of West Indian cricket. He was a hard-hitting batsmen and one of the most successful captains in history. An almost ponderous, lazy gait belied the speed and power at his command and the astute tactical brain that led the West Indies to the top of world cricket for two decades. He transformed the philosophy of West Indian cricket, turning a band of supremely talented, yet inconsistent happy-go-lucky cricketers into ruthless machinery for destruction.

Mark Waugh (Ave: 41.81): One of the world’s most elegant and gifted strokemakers, the twin brother of Steve, Waugh’s game was characterized by an ability to drive, cut, pull and loft the ball so effortlessly that it could make him look disdainful of the talents of bowlers. Gifted, natural, elegant, languid, carefree… the adjectives could go on and on. Mark Waugh was that special a cricketer.

MS Dhoni (Ave: 38.09): Arguably one of India’s most popular and charismatic cricketers, Captain Cool’s home-made batting and wicketkeeping technique, and a style of captaincy had scaled the highs and lows of both conservatism and unorthodoxy. Dhoni demonstrated all that was right with the new look India. He didn't respect reputations, but never disrespected. He improvised; he learned and soon became one of the best ever Wicket keeping batsmen his country has ever produced.

Michael Holding (Ave: 23.68; Econ: 2.79; SR: 50.9): Michael Holding turned around from far, far away, where the eyes had to squint to see. And then he ran in fluid, silent, long strides, with an action almost hypnotic in grace and athleticism. And as he waltzed into follow-through, the ball darted at rates seldom witnessed even in the heydays of pace bowling in the 1970s. His stealthy, extensive run up was soundless and serene. Umpires were seldom aware of his approach till the corner of their eyes caught him stretched in his delivery stride. Not for nothing was he was he called “Whispering Death“.

Waqar Younis (Ave: 23.56; Econ: 3.25;SR 43.4): The man who really put reverse into swing. Sharing his Test debut with the Master Blaster Sachin Tendulkar, during the November 1989 Test at Karachi, he took a four-wicket haul in his first Test innings, including the wicket of Tendulkar. He never looked back since.

Allan Donald (Ave: 22.25; Econ: 2.83; SR: 47.0): A classical action and top-drawer pace would have won him a place in any side in his prime, and for much of his career he was the only world-class performer in the South African team, spearing the ball in, shaping it away and always making things happen. If the credit for South Africa's success in the modern era could be given to one player, that cricketer would be Allan Donald.
 
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Varun

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Mushtaq Ahmed (Ave: 32.97; Econ: 2.92; SR: 67.7): Bubbly, Chubby, Unique action with Googlies aplenty. Styling his action on his hero Abdul Qadir, he is a match winner with a full house of legspin variations. At his best he is not far behind Shane Warne. He can bowl the leggie as well as the googly with uncanny similarity. He is a wrist spinner which sanctions him to get a good turn on the ball and his stock googly has stunned many a set batsmen in their prime.

Lasith Malinga (Ave: 33.15; Econ: 3.85; SR: 51.5): He sets off: his run-up smoothly transforming from a jog into a sprint, his curly golden-streaked locks swirling in the wind, and by the time he crosses the umpire, he is steaming in like a hurricane on rampage. Within microseconds, his right bowling arm swings in an angle parallel to the ground, what they call a round-arm action, and the ball is released almost from the line of middle-stump. Before the batsman can say, “What the…”, the ball has zoomed in, swinging deviously in the air and pitched right where the batsman’s feet are. Lasith Malinga gained a reputation for delivering searing inswinging yorkers from a round-arm action as destructive as it was distinctive. That yorker, a deceptive slower ball, and an excellent bouncer formed the body of Malinga's menace, while the action made his deliveries hard to pick up. All that ability was also set off by street smarts; Malinga was rarely shy to switch up plans, and reshuffle fields. Even when batsmen thought they knew what was about to come, Malinga retained the capacity to surprise.
 

Norris

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Damn, the M.O of both teams. Stacked to the brim with talent. Only problem are Bairstow and Jayasurya from Interval's team and Malinga from Mani's who don't really belong in an All Time Test Draft.
 

Interval

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@Varun - Saqlain fir Pollock on the spin track.

tl;dr of what's below
- My batting is equally good due to depth: His superior openers get nuetralised by a superiority at the Border-Laxman-Imran-Bairstow-Pollock-Akram level whereas his batting ends at Lloyd-Waugh-Dhoni and remember Waugh has hardly batted 6 in his career
- Imran Khan: And whereas Botham declined steadily, Imran just got better and better: in his last 10 years of international cricket he played 51 Tests, averaging a sensational 50 with the bat and 19 with the ball.
- Bowling is superior: A bowling combo of Imran/ Akram/ Pollock/ Warne > Donald/ Waqar/ Holding/ Mushy or Malinga

The way I'm looking at this match -

I honestly think this will come down to personal preference. But here's my stance. His top order nails mine simply because of his two openers. If we were to break it up

Sunny, Boycott >> Greenidge, Jaya
Lara, Greg = Sachin, Kallis

He takes this easily. However, its after that I believe my batting is better -
Border, Laxman > Lloyd, Laxman (Both individually, I believe are better than their counter parts). Mark Waugh never really batted number 6; he was a number 4; he's played only 11 matches at 6

Then my batting goes significantly deeper than his -
Imran, Bairstow, Pollock, Akram>>Dhoni?
 

Interval

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Damn, the M.O of both teams. Stacked to the brim with talent. Only problem are Bairstow and Jayasurya from Interval's team and Malinga from Mani's who don't really belong in an All Time Test Draft.
Even Dhoni is unlikely to figure in all time teams in tests; Waugh neither
But yeah, don't disagree with you one bit. your point well and truly taken.
 

Mani

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Damn, the M.O of both teams. Stacked to the brim with talent. Only problem are Bairstow and Jayasurya from Interval's team and Malinga from Mani's who don't really belong in an All Time Test Draft.

Agree there but for me Malinga only plays for one match,where pace and swing assists the swing bowler,moreover he will be my 4th bowler after Holding/Waqar & Donald.
Jayasurya is a v.good ODI batsmen but when it comes to test he's not the best one rely on and asking him to open against the the bowling line up Holding/Donald/Waqar is not the best way to start the batting.
Bairstow does not below to the all time draft,imo Interval should have replaced him at some point of this draft.
 

Varun

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Damn, the M.O of both teams. Stacked to the brim with talent. Only problem are Bairstow and Jayasurya from Interval's team and Malinga from Mani's who don't really belong in an All Time Test Draft.
Dhoni and Mark Waugh don't really belong in a test draft final either tbf.
 

Varun

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Even Dhoni is unlikely to figure in all time teams in tests; Waugh neither
But yeah, don't disagree with you one bit. your point well and truly taken.
Ah, interval said the same later.
 

Mani

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@Varun - Saqlain fir Pollock on the spin track.

tl;dr of what's below
- My batting is equally good due to depth: His superior openers get nuetralised by a superiority at the Border-Laxman-Imran-Bairstow-Pollock-Akram level whereas his batting ends at Lloyd-Waugh-Dhoni and remember Waugh has hardly batted 6 in his career
- Imran Khan: And whereas Botham declined steadily, Imran just got better and better: in his last 10 years of international cricket he played 51 Tests, averaging a sensational 50 with the bat and 19 with the ball.
- Bowling is superior: A bowling combo of Imran/ Akram/ Pollock/ Warne > Donald/ Waqar/ Holding/ Mushy or Malinga

The way I'm looking at this match -

I honestly think this will come down to personal preference. But here's my stance. His top order nails mine simply because of his two openers. If we were to break it up

Sunny, Boycott >> Greenidge, Jaya
Lara, Greg = Sachin, Kallis

He takes this easily. However, its after that I believe my batting is better -
Border, Laxman > Lloyd, Laxman (Both individually, I believe are better than their counter parts). Mark Waugh never really batted number 6; he was a number 4; he's played only 11 matches at 6

Then my batting goes significantly deeper than his -
Imran, Bairstow, Pollock, Akram>>Dhoni?
You're wrong with,Mark Waugh started his career bating lower down the order and got few of the centuries in that position and the notable one came against Windies ,the bowling line comprise of M.Marshall/Ambrose/Walsh

His average at position 6 is at 53.54 with two centuries and highlight century 139* came against west indies in 1991.

Also you need to note that specialised position in test are opening batting and batsmen coming down at fall of first wicket and any batsmen coming lower down can adapt the situation.

Your opener Jayasurya certainly put lot of pressure on Kallis and other batsmen coming lower down.
My batsmen don't have similar pressure.

As far bowling is concern
Pace bowler = Holding /Waqar /Donald > Imran/Wasim/Pollock , again as you it sait it may also differ with individual taste
As far spinners go Warne is superior M.Ahmed no argument there.
 
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Norris

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Even Dhoni is unlikely to figure in all time teams in tests; Waugh neither
But yeah, don't disagree with you one bit. your point well and truly taken.
Dhoni and Mark Waugh don't really belong in a test draft final either tbf.
I meant from a strictly historical perspective. Dhoni has been there and done it, so you can make a case for him as a half decent option. I hadn't even heard of Bairstow till a few months back. I disagree about Waugh though. Him there or thereabouts is understandable. His records not too shabby either.
 

Mani

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Dhoni and Mark Waugh don't really belong in a test draft final either tbf.
Why not Dhoni(4876 runs from 144 innings) and M.Waugh (Runs 8029 from 128 innings)

Compared to Bairstow (1726 runs from 48 innings)
 

Mani

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@Mani voted for you. Would like to hear your side; will be unable to post anymore tonight though. Apologies
Voted mate,no worries we got close to 32 hrs.Even i wouldn't be available much tonight.
 

Mani

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@Varun

Can you change the second line posted with Langer to Lara.

Thanks mate.
 

Varun

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@Varun

Can you change the second line posted with Langer to Lara.

Thanks mate.
Done, sorry. Changed the first one but forgot the 2nd.
Why not Dhoni(4876 runs from 144 innings) and M.Waugh (Runs 8029 from 128 innings)

Compared to Bairstow (1726 runs from 48 innings)
Bairstow is easily the shittiest. I was just talking in terms of a top test 11 of all time. Or even top 22 etc. Dhoni is very meh in tests. Waugh, though better, not amongst the top test players either.
I meant from a strictly historical perspective. Dhoni has been there and done it, so you can make a case for him as a half decent option. I hadn't even heard of Bairstow till a few months back. I disagree about Waugh though. Him there or thereabouts is understandable. His records not too shabby either.
See above.
 

Boycott

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Mani's batting is brilliant.

  • Two of the greatest openers who dig in on all conditions against the best attacks
  • At 3 enters one of the greatest ever and the greatest player of spin bowling IMO
  • Greg Chappell was a champion batsman who was supremely prolific and scored big.
  • Clive Lloyd provides flair and leadership. An underrated batsman, in another team he would be one of the key whereas in this one he is a support act.
  • Mark Waugh is the same. I disagree with the comment that he's out of his place in a draft final and in this team he's going to come in free to play his strokes.
Dhoni has a simple job. He should be coming in at the tail-end of an innings and add the final touches to hammer the bowlers physically and mentally. But his test career as a batsman was unfulfilled and his technique won't stand up to quality bowlers IMO.

Then that pace bowling trio of Donald, Holding and Waqar is absolute dynamite. Malinga should not have been picked though. He's not a very good test bowler and won't add anything different those three don't bring but he does bring erratic bowling. Mushtaq Ahmed would have held up the end and has a lot of experience in those conditions for the third test. Plus there's the caveat the batsmen will try and take him on to get the score moving which can yield mistakes and wickets.

Interval too has a formidable middle order but his openers don't give the same stability. Both are attacking and when they come off are devastating but if they don't that's a problem. Jayasuriya particularly will struggle. Kallis can soak up the pressure and Tendulkar and Border build an innings going through the gears in the process though. Mani's openers are better but your 4 and 5 are better.

The pace attack is also fantastic and I would say the trio of Imran-Wasim-Pollock have more variety up their sleeves than Mani's. The spinners are better too.

I'm going to wait to make my decision but initial thoughts are Mani to win 2-1 with the difference being the batting solidity in the third test.
 

NinjaFletch

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Is there any draft reasons why Bairstow, Dhoni and Malinga ended up in these teams or were they actually actively sought after?
 

Boycott

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Is there any draft reasons why Bairstow, Dhoni and Malinga ended up in these teams or were they actually actively sought after?
Nature of a draft. The top tier players are picked up quickly and from there it's about assembling the best you can from what is available and making a strategy to make up for short-comings as far as you can.

All of us will agree Malinga was not a great test bowler. But his numbers mean compared to what else is there ?(he was a late pick) you can make-do with him, provided your other fast bowlers are high quality which Mani in fairness had.

Top wicket-keepers are limited as only since Alec Stewart and then Gilchrist arrived on the scene has the importance of batting become the norm A lot of the older generation keepers were far superior with the gloves but were little better than tail-enders with the bat.

That said in the re-enforcement rounds there was opportunities to upgrade so I assume both had more pressing needs.
 

NinjaFletch

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Nature of a draft. The top tier players are picked up quickly and from there it's about assembling the best you can from what is available and making a strategy to make up for short-comings as far as you can.

All of us will agree Malinga was not a great test bowler. But his numbers mean compared to what else is there ?(he was a late pick) you can make-do with him, provided your other fast bowlers are high quality which Mani in fairness had.

Top wicket-keepers are limited as only since Alec Stewart and then Gilchrist arrived on the scene has the importance of batting become the norm A lot of the older generation keepers were far superior with the gloves but were little better than tail-enders with the bat.

That said in the re-enforcement rounds there was opportunities to upgrade so I assume both had more pressing needs.
I'm aware of the history of the WK which is what makes it even odder that he's plucked for Bairstow, imo. Most of that tail can bat. You might not necessarily back them against an attack as good as Mani's, but I'm not sure you'd back Bairstow either, not yet anyway. Add to that the fact that, and I'm probably being generous here, Bairstow is a thoroughly average gloveman. So if you're scrabbling together to pick someone up, given the options he's got, you can definitely afford a better keeper with a worse average. Maybe thats undervalued in a draft, but in real life that would make the difference between these sides imo.

If I'd had the option I would have probably plucked for 1-1, and Bairstow's keeping would have been the biggest reason why I'm not convinced he'd win on a batting track.

I don't actually think Bairstow's the worse pick though, at least you can make the argument he'll improve. Malinga is incredibly out of place, and I think the only real affect he'll have on the third game is to release pressure built up at the other end.
 

Boycott

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I'm aware of the history of the WK which is what makes it even odder that he's plucked for Bairstow, imo. Most of that tail can bat. You might not necessarily back them against an attack as good as Mani's, but I'm not sure you'd back Bairstow either, not yet anyway. Add to that the fact that, and I'm probably being generous here, Bairstow is a thoroughly average gloveman. So if you're scrabbling together to pick someone up, given the options he's got, you can definitely afford a better keeper with a worse average. Maybe thats undervalued in a draft, but in real life that would make the difference between these sides imo.

If I'd had the option I would have probably plucked for 1-1, and Bairstow's keeping would have been the biggest reason why I'm not convinced he'd win on a batting track.

I don't actually think Bairstow's the worse pick though, at least you can make the argument he'll improve. Malinga is incredibly out of place, and I think the only real affect he'll have on the third game is to release pressure built up at the other end.
I agree but he may have felt upgrading a batsman or a bowler is more important than keeper. You're right that glove-work is undervalued in drafts. Bairstow's stats probably came into his mind. An average of 40 looks good and pads out the batting line-up.
 

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Few thoughts on the discussion

- Yes, Bairstow is a complete standout average here. Don't mind admitting it and if that is a reason to lose the game, that's fair. I expect him to keep okay and bat better than Holding (his equivalent at 8)

- As much as his openers are better than mine, I bat much deeper that neutralises most of his top order advantage the advantage; Number 5 down, man for mine, my batting is better in almost all regards; Border>Lloyd; Laxman>Waugh; Imran>Dhoni; Bairstow, Pollock, Akram better than the tail enders in his team

- And as a personal victory (of a team that started out with a fast bowling of Boult/ Caddick/ Johnson) a line up of Akram/ Imran/ S Pollock/ Warne; as a combo, I believe this offers significant variety (lefty handed quick+swing bowler; a seam bowler; a pure swing bowler; a world class spinner)

- I'm also surprised that @Skills didn't mention this Imran just got better and better: in his last 10 years of international cricket he played 51 Tests, averaging a sensational 50 with the bat and 19 with the ball. (From espncricinfo)

- Frankly, I wouldn't mind losing this because his team is bloody darn good. I think it just comes down to whether you think my bowlers and superior lower order can overcome his better openers.


I meant from a strictly historical perspective. Dhoni has been there and done it, so you can make a case for him as a half decent option. I hadn't even heard of Bairstow till a few months back. I disagree about Waugh though. Him there or thereabouts is understandable. His records not too shabby either.
Why not Dhoni(4876 runs from 144 innings) and M.Waugh (Runs 8029 from 128 innings)

Compared to Bairstow (1726 runs from 48 innings)
I don't disagree, but if you're using the been there and done that category then even Jayasuriya has been there done that.

M Waugh: 128 innings, 8029 runs averaging 42; Struggled in Asia (avg of 32); good on pace tracks
Jaya: 188 innings, 6973 runs averaging 40; struggled outside of asia; good on spin tracks

Bairstow, yeah, I admit is a bit average for this level of draft; I just don't think Dhoni is much of a test player himself nor is he an outstanding gloveman

On Waugh being able to adapt to 6 - again, you may be right on that.

Mani's batting is brilliant.

  • .....o.

I'm going to wait to make my decision but initial thoughts are Mani to win 2-1 with the difference being the batting solidity in the third test.
Fair analysis. If it helps make your mind up, his batting is much better at 1-4 because of his openers but I bat way way way deeper that helps me neutralise things; Dhoni at 7 followed by tail enders vs Imran at 7 (averaged more than 50 in the final 10 years of his career), Bairstow 8, Pollock 9 (averages 30+) and Akram who can bat more than a bit.

Is there any draft reasons why Bairstow, Dhoni and Malinga ended up in these teams or were they actually actively sought after?
I admit its a big mistake. 16 teams vying for test players debuting post 1960s meant that teams had so many other holes in their line ups that recruitment was never going to be enough. Yes, I should've gone for some other available keepers at the time of initial drafting but my best case options were Rashid Latif and Adam Parore both of whom were average keepers as well.

But I'll say that my tail would actually play okay against the best pacers - Pollock, Imran etc actually have performed against the best attacks.
 
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Mani

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Few thoughts on the discussion

- Yes, Bairstow is a complete standout average here. Don't mind admitting it and if that is a reason to lose the game, that's fair. I expect him to keep okay and bat better than Holding (his equivalent at 8)

- As much as his openers are better than mine, I bat much deeper that neutralises most of his top order advantage the advantage; Number 5 down, man for mine, my batting is better in almost all regards; Border>Lloyd; Laxman>Waugh; Imran>Dhoni; Bairstow, Pollock, Akram better than the tail enders in his team

- And as a personal victory (of a team that started out with a fast bowling of Boult/ Caddick/ Johnson) a line up of Akram/ Imran/ S Pollock/ Warne; as a combo, I believe this offers significant variety (lefty handed quick+swing bowler; a seam bowler; a pure swing bowler; a world class spinner)

- I'm also surprised that @Skills didn't mention this Imran just got better and better: in his last 10 years of international cricket he played 51 Tests, averaging a sensational 50 with the bat and 19 with the ball. (From espncricinfo)

- Frankly, I wouldn't mind losing this because his team is bloody darn good. I think it just comes down to whether you think my bowlers and superior lower order can overcome his better openers.






I don't disagree, but if you're using the been there and done that category then even Jayasuriya has been there done that.

M Waugh: 128 innings, 8029 runs averaging 42; Struggled in Asia (avg of 32); good on pace tracks
Jaya: 188 innings, 6973 runs averaging 40; struggled outside of asia; good on spin tracks


Bairstow, yeah, I admit is a bit average for this level of draft; I just don't think Dhoni is much of a test player himself nor is he an outstanding gloveman

On Waugh being able to adapt to 6 - again, you may be right on that.



Fair analysis. If it helps make your mind up, his batting is much better at 1-4 because of his openers but I bat way way way deeper that helps me neutralise things; Dhoni at 7 followed by tail enders vs Imran at 7 (averaged more than 50 in the final 10 years of his career), Bairstow 8, Pollock 9 (averages 30+) and Akram who can bat more than a bit.



I admit its a big mistake. 16 teams vying for test players debuting post 1960s meant that teams had so many other holes in their line ups that recruitment was never going to be enough. Yes, I should've gone for some other available keepers at the time of initial drafting but my best case options were Rashid Latif and Adam Parore both of whom were average keepers as well.

But I'll say that my tail would actually play okay against the best pacers - Pollock, Imran etc actually have performed against the best attacks.
Its always your lower batsmen against my bowler and my lower order against your bowler and not the way you compare it like my last 4 vs your last 4.

IMO both the lower order would suffer against the opponent's bowling line up , no where mine or your lower line up would stand up aganist Wasim, Waqar,Imran Holding and Donald.

But again Jayasurya is an opening batsmen and even pitches in Sub continent offers early assist to pacemen and i doubt he would stay long against Waqar/Holding/Donald. Hope you would know Holding is equally good in both dead and pacy pitches.
 

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Here is an nice read on Holding

A pre-Test dinner with some lovely steak and red wine was customary in those days. After the dinner we would sit with the captain to discuss match tactics, most of which had been blown out of the water by the fantastic batting of Viv Richards and Gordon Greenidge, and the bowling of Holding and Andy Roberts. This evening I was seated next to the great Sir Leonard Hutton who was on the selection panel, and since he had faced Ray Lindwall and Keith Miller a lot, I was very keen to seek his advice on how to tackle Holding and Roberts.

During the evening I duly asked him for some help. He thought for some time, cutting a piece of steak and sipping some wine as he did. He kept turning to me periodically, and just when it seemed he was going to say something, he would stop. Fifteen minutes later, he finally spoke. "If I were you," he said, "I would try and get down to the other end!"

The pitch was a batting paradise. Lloyd won the toss, and Richards batted like I had never seen anyone bat before, plundering an imperious 291. West Indies declared at 687 for 8, and Dennis and I survived 12 overs on the second evening. The bounce was true, and I was feeling good about my batting because I had been in good form all season. But little did we know that Whispering Death lay in wait for us.

Holding's feet hardly touched the ground as he ran in. He moved in silkily and his body swayed like a cobra's: it would have been magnificent had I been watching from the outside. But here I was more intent on watching the ball, moving back and across as Colin Cowdrey had taught me.

Holding was bowling with only one fielder in front of wicket at cover-point. He bowled, and I moved back and across. I saw that the ball was pitched up, so I moved forward, feet first, and then into the shot.

Before I knew it, the ball had smashed into my pad. Even though I was wearing state-of-the-art buckskin pads, the pain was so incredible that I thought I had been shot. A small explosion of whitening emanated from my pad and a loud appeal from the bowler and the fielders. Dickie Bird was not known to give too many lbws. But this time he had no choice: the ball would have broken the middle stump.

That opened the floodgates, and though Dennis scored a masterful 203 and helped us avoid the follow-on, we lost by 231 runs. Incredibly Roberts, who opened the bowling with Holding, returned with match figures of 1 for 139 to Holding's 14 for 149.
The pitch had nothing in terms of movement, swing or extra bounce for the bowler, but Holding didn't need any assistance: six of his victims were bowled and two leg-before. He just kept coming back and bowling quicker and quicker, and stumps flew all over the place.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/403235.html
 

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Mani has better openers but Interval has a better lower order. The batting units are about equal to me.

In the 2nd Test, I think Interval is the clear favorite. Two spinners, one of them a GOAT, and Imran Khan as one of the best pace bowlers in these conditions.

1st and 3rd Test are a lot closer. Malinga doesn't have as good a record on seaming wickets actually. Still, Holding - Younis - Donald is a fearsome trio while Pollock is a weak link (at this very high level) on Interval's side. Slight edge to Mani here.

3rd Test as always most likely to be a draw but if there was a result here I see it going to Interval, mainly because Warne would be a solid wicket taking option on such a pitch but I am unsure if Ahmed would be very effective.

Chosen 2-1 to Interval for now.
 

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Its always your lower batsmen against my bowler and my lower order against your bowler and not the way you compare it like my last 4 vs your last 4.

IMO both the lower order would suffer against the opponent's bowling line up , no where mine or your lower line up would stand up aganist Wasim, Waqar,Imran Holding and Donald.

But again Jayasurya is an opening batsmen and even pitches in Sub continent offers early assist to pacemen and i doubt he would stay long against Waqar/Holding/Donald. Hope you would know Holding is equally good in both dead and pacy pitches.
I'm not saying that my batting is better than yours. Let me rephrase why I was doing the comparison that way - do you think that Border, Laxman, Imran, Bairstow, Pollock and Akram vs Lloyd, Waugh, Dhoni, Holding, Mushy and Younis will not be able to COLLECTIVELY eke out the additional 30-35 runs more which is the advantage of having Gavaskar vs my Jaya gives you?

Yeah, Pollock's career average of 32 odd against a wide variety of bowlers will drop to 20 in this match; but then again Holding won't be able to average the 13-15 runs in every match against my bowling right? I mean he'll go down to 7-8 himself. Collectively, I need to clear an advantage of 30-35 runs that you have.

As far as Jaya on subcontinental wickets goes, he handled pace on the subcontinent just fine (which is why the 40+ avg). Remember, he did play in an era where Akram, Younis, Ambrose, Pollock, Donald, McGrath etc used to operate. And he did fine opening in Asian conditions.
 
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1st and 3rd Test are a lot closer. Malinga doesn't have as good a record on seaming wickets actually. Still, Holding - Younis - Donald is a fearsome trio while Pollock is a weak link (at this very high level) on Interval's side. Slight edge to Mani here.
Why I very much agree with the voting choice :), I'd just like to point 2-3 things -

(1) Pollock typically gets less credit for his bowling because of the way his career panned out towards the end when he slowed down due to back issues. He himself averaged some 21 odd for a vast part of his career.
(2) Variety: I have superior variety in my bowling; I have a left armer, a quality spinner, and a pace bowler who can bowl long long spells in Pollock and Imran.
 

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I'm not saying that my batting is better than yours. Let me rephrase why I was doing the comparison that way - do you think that Border, Laxman, Imran, Bairstow, Pollock and Akram vs Lloyd, Waugh, Dhoni, Holding, Mushy and Younis will not be able to COLLECTIVELY eke out the additional 30-35 runs more which is the advantage of having Gavaskar vs my Jaya gives you?

Yeah, Pollock's career average of 32 odd against a wide variety of bowlers will drop to 20 in this match; but then again Holding won't be able to average the 13-15 runs in every match against my bowling right? I mean he'll go down to 7-8 himself. Collectively, I need to clear an advantage of 30-35 runs that you have.

As far as Jaya on subcontinental wickets goes, he handled pace on the subcontinent just fine (which is why the 40+ avg). Remember, he did play in an era where Akram, Younis, Ambrose, Pollock, Donald, McGrath etc used to operate. And he did fine opening in Asian conditions.
Its not about the additional runs what Gavaskar /Boycott could give against Greenidge /Jayasurya ,its the solid foundation for the rest of batsmen to follow them. Playing through the first session without loosing wickets is much important than loosing few at first session.

Jaya's over all average against top sides with good pace attack during those period as follows
Aus : 31.18
ENG: 35.6
NL:24.42
PAK :51.7
SA:31.74
WI:35.12
Apart from Pakistan rest doesn't look encouraging.Out of those some he started lower down the order.

@Akshay
M.Ahmed was equally good in both spin and wkt that seem and assist pacy bowlers.

As for variety in bowling goes ,Holding /Waqar/Donald,there is lefty in that attack but all three are unique on their own way.
Holding has that fear factor in him, the Windies way of bowling, master of those short balls, pace and accuracy.
Waqar with those swinging yorkers, bouncers and swinging full toss to add to.
Donald with nagging accuracy with pace folowed by bouncers and yorkers.
Malinga with slow bouncers, yorkers..
 

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Its not about the additional runs what Gavaskar /Boycott could give against Greenidge /Jayasurya ,its the solid foundation for the rest of batsmen to follow them. Playing through the first session without loosing wickets is much important than loosing few at first session.

Jaya's over all average against top sides with good pace attack during those period as follows
Aus : 31.18
ENG: 35.6
NL:24.42
PAK :51.7
SA:31.74
WI:35.12
Apart from Pakistan rest doesn't look encouraging.Out of those some he started lower down the order.

@Akshay
M.Ahmed was equally good in both spin and wkt that seem and assist pacy bowlers.

As for variety in bowling goes ,Holding /Waqar/Donald,there is lefty in that attack but all three are unique on their own way.
Holding has that fear factor in him, the Windies way of bowling, master of those short balls, pace and accuracy.
Waqar with those swinging yorkers, bouncers and swinging full toss to add to.
Donald with nagging accuracy with pace folowed by bouncers and yorkers.
Malinga with slow bouncers, yorkers..
Yeah. Don't disagree with the Jaya theory. I don't expect him to, in pace conditions, to provide anything more than 25-30 runs whereas Sunny is good for, on an average, 55-60; which is why I said 25-30 run advantage.

Now, as far as stability at the top, yes it helps; but its not like just because Jaya got out after scoring 25 runs, Kallis, etc would tumble, right? I mean Sachin, all through the 90s, would follow up fromm typically shit openers of the likes of Sidhu etc who were worse than Jaya. Still didn't stop him from having a good record. Yes, it puts some more pressure coming in at 30-1 than 60-1; but trust the types of Kallis, Border who thrive under these conditions of blocking the ball endlessesly to come through.

At the end of the day, it is quality that is coming through after Jaya right?
 

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Yeah. Don't disagree with the Jaya theory. I don't expect him to, in pace conditions, to provide anything more than 25-30 runs whereas Sunny is good for, on an average, 55-60; which is why I said 25-30 run advantage.

Now, as far as stability at the top, yes it helps; but its not like just because Jaya got out after scoring 25 runs, Kallis, etc would tumble, right? I mean Sachin, all through the 90s, would follow up fromm typically shit openers of the likes of Sidhu etc who were worse than Jaya. Still didn't stop him from having a good record. Yes, it puts some more pressure coming in at 30-1 than 60-1; but trust the types of Kallis, Border who thrive under these conditions of blocking the ball endlessesly to come through.

At the end of the day, it is quality that is coming through after Jaya right?

I don't disagree with the quality that comes after Jaya.But do you think do you think that middle order batsmen take up the openers role and can thrive under situation?

It may be 10-1 or 30-1 but the role of the opener in test is see through the initial shine and make it easy for the batsmen coming lower down the order.
These batsmen's are very good at their respective position and we choose them because they where good at their respective position than at other position's.

Boycott/Gavaskar can bat through sessions together which makes ball less shine or no shine and bowlers gets more tired which helps the rest to follow,
which also mean longer innings and huge score to chase through.

Opening batsmen vs batsmen coming at 7,8,9,10

Coming at your argument that you could make it with your longer tail and that can be matched with whatever Gavaskar /Boycott could score ?

IMO, in ODI matches it is possible with all rounders coming into play with those on slog and quick runs ,but when it comes to test lower batsmen wouldn't have enough in their tank to sustain neither they are capable of producing long innings nor they would have enough partners at other end to carry on or the time to produce long innings aganist the attack as good as Holding/Waqar/Donald.
Its easy for the bowlers caliber of Waqar to clean up that tail with those swinging deliveries and he had proved it over the years.
 

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I don't disagree with the quality that comes after Jaya.But do you think do you think that middle order batsmen take up the openers role and can thrive under situation?

It may be 10-1 or 30-1 but the role of the opener in test is see through the initial shine and make it easy for the batsmen coming lower down the order.
These batsmen's are very good at their respective position and we choose them because they where good at their respective position than at other position's.

Boycott/Gavaskar can bat through sessions together which makes ball less shine or no shine and bowlers gets more tired which helps the rest to follow,
which also mean longer innings and huge score to chase through.

Opening batsmen vs batsmen coming at 7,8,9,10

Coming at your argument that you could make it with your longer tail and that can be matched with whatever Gavaskar /Boycott could score ?

IMO, in ODI matches it is possible with all rounders coming into play with those on slog and quick runs ,but when it comes to test lower batsmen wouldn't have enough in their tank to sustain neither they are capable of producing long innings nor they would have enough partners at other end to carry on or the time to produce long innings aganist the attack as good as Holding/Waqar/Donald.
Its easy for the bowlers caliber of Waqar to clean up that tail with those swinging deliveries and he had proved it over the years.
:lol: I know its easy to but don't treat Jaya as non existent. Its not like he'd be out in the first over itself all the time. Your point about my middle order getting exposed quicker is true. But I don't thinkyou're understanding that its not just having 2 or so better players in the lower order; my entire series of 5 players is better than yours. And that's all I need to narrow that gap.

And as far as Waqar finishing them off, tbh, Pollock, etc have played in the same era as these guys and played them off. And by that logic, your lower order will not get off the mark against my bowlers, ie my batsmen have to account for no more than 20-30 runs.

Also, don't forget that while you can say that your trio of bowlers are intimidating, I have 4 world class bowlers vs your 3. If anything, your batting collapsing after 3 or 4 down are singificnatly higher than mine.
 

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I agree with Mani that he has 3 intimidating bowlers but I have 4; and 4 with much greater variety; see the last video with Warne = that is a truly scared batsman; Gilly laughing :lol:

So most people remember Pollock as this mid-70s pace bowler wih nagging accuracy because the latter part of his career was like that.

But for most of his career, he had pace (not tearaway but 80s), bounce, accuracy and could seam the ball either ways. In seaming conditions, he's probably amongst the deadliest bowlers in this draft


And imagine that bowling in tandem with this and this


 

Mani

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:lol: I know its easy to but don't treat Jaya as non existent. Its not like he'd be out in the first over itself all the time. Your point about my middle order getting exposed quicker is true. But I don't thinkyou're understanding that its not just having 2 or so better players in the lower order; my entire series of 5 players is better than yours. And that's all I need to narrow that gap.

And as far as Waqar finishing them off, tbh, Pollock, etc have played in the same era as these guys and played them off. And by that logic, your lower order will not get off the mark against my bowlers, ie my batsmen have to account for no more than 20-30 runs.

Also, don't forget that while you can say that your trio of bowlers are intimidating, I have 4 world class bowlers vs your 3. If anything, your batting collapsing after 3 or 4 down are singificnatly higher than mine.
Lower order does not stand up against each other bowling and that's what I said in the beginning as well.Also its not i said something against pollock, the lower order in general and no lower order can stay there to produce the long innings.

In regards to both set of bowlers and going into stats,where my bowling combo of has a better strike rate compared to yours.

Strike rate

Waqar : 43.40
Donald: 47.00
Holding :50.90

compared it with yours

Wasim : 56.60
Imran : 53.70
Pollock : 57.80

It clearly says that my bowling combo comparatively took leasers balls to dismiss vs yours bowling combo.